Questions

Questions on pay and raise

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Questions on pay and raise

mnelson40
I would like to get an opinion on this situation:

I am a systems administrator for a company on a military base. We are contractors and they deal with third party collections (insurance). Because we are on a base and we use their network there are a lot of sys admin things I am not allowed to do. However, I do provide help desk/IT support for 68 users. Even though I am a manager I have no help so I take of all 68. 52 are in the bldg I am in and the other 16 work in the hospital across the street. Because of how the base has things set up I can't provide remote help to my remote users. I have to go to the hospital to provide assistance. I just finished my first year as their systems admin (I have worked for them since 2006 in other capacities). I am currently making under $50K a year despite what I've seen online that I should be making between $50K - $60K with 0-4 years experience. Is this correct? Am I working for less than I should despite the hinderence in performing all of the standard duties. Also, my raise was at about 2.5% which gives me an extra $88 per month. Is that standard or should I be as upset and offended as I am. Thanks for any and all input.


MLN
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    ---TK---

    Are you happy with what your doing? It could be a lot worse... I use to do something close to that, for 30K a year... only I/we supported 400 users (give or take a few) split between 4 techs...

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    mnelson40

    I'm somewhat happy. It is frustrating with what I can't do because of our arrangement with the base (can't even create user accounts). I just wanted to make sure that I'm not being taken advantage of. I am always told of the good job I am doing and even though my review wasn't all the way to the left it was good. They seemed to drag their feet on telling me what my increase was (it is retro'ed back to 01/01/09) and that makes me think it is because they know it should have been more. When I did the math it came out to a raise of $0.55. If that is the norm considering my circumstances but that seemed more like what you would get at a retail job (not that there's anything wrong with that...lol). I guess I was most bothered/insulted by the raise. My annual salary is the most I have ever made in my life so, yeah my biggest issue is with the raise. Thanks.

    MLN

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    OldER Mycroft

    Irrespective of your involvement, however tenuous, within the financial services/insurance market - I would have thought ANY person working in a position of responsibility would have at least a basic understanding of what is currently happening in the real world.

    That's the REAL WORLD, as opposed to the dream world that you currently inhabit.

    Unless you have taken an oath to bear arms in the defence of your country, your present location on a military base matters not a whit. Neither does the suggestion that this insurance company you are contracted to is in the habit of using computer facilities usually reserved for NORAD / NATO.

    From what I can glean, you take offence at 'having to cross the street' as part of your job of work. You also take umbrage at a pay rise of 2.5% at the end of your first full year.

    While I personally would have enjoyed the opportunity to get out of a stuffy computer room once in a while without having to invent a reason to do so, I don't think I've ever thought of it as an affront.

    I've just checked the current Base Rate for the USA and it doesn't appear to be quite as drastic as the rate in the UK, which as of today stands at 0.5%. Therefore without fully accurate info on the American rates, but treating the situation with the same degree of concern, I'd say that a pay rise anywhere above 1% is something you should kneel down and thank God for having received, because you are lucky that you have a salary to have any percentage rate applied to!

    As to "despite what I've seen online that I should be making between $50K - $60K with 0-4 years experience" - well ! What can I say ?

    I could ask where you found this information?

    I might even inquire if there was a date attached to this information, indicating if it was perhaps written before the present global economic collapse?

    Perhaps you are one of the people that believe everything you read on the internet is TRUE - but then again you're a system administrator aren't you? You have 68 people relying on your technical skills, your level-headedness, your logical mature and intelligent thought capabilities.

    You don't believe that everything you see on the internet is true, do you?

    Do you?

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    mnelson40

    I don't know if the purpose of your reply was to be insulting or patronizing. I apologize if my lack of experience or understanding of the world bothers/stuns you. Maybe my post was not clear in what I wanted to know. My reason for posting this was to find out what the standard is so that if what I received falls in that range or exceeds then I can move on and be happy. I am very grateful for anything that I receive whether the economy is good or bad. I thank God everyday for everything I have, including my job since I know that there are many people that don't even have that. I had an expectation and when it didn't happen I was insulted. Right or wrong that is what I felt. Sorry that I am simply human. I apparently have not reached you level of enlightenment. Now I have something else to aspire to. Thanks. Also, instead of trying to glean what you think someone means maybe you should just ask for clarification. My reason for stating that I must walk across the street was to paint a picture of my situation so that anyone wanting to give me an oponion or advice would have enough information to do so. I apologize if that didn't happen. The reason I stated that I worked on a base was so that it could be noted that I may not be able to do everything that a typical job description may list. I understand that because I am limited in what I can do here on base it could affect things like pay and increases. I also understand that a lack of experience also plays a part in that. And no, I don't believe everything I read on the Internet. That is why I posted my question here to get opinions from those that have them instead of running to my manager demanding to be paid what I found. You sound very intelligent in how you write and I obviously am not in your league so forgive me if my question was an affront to your intelligence and experience. I hope you were able to get all of your demeaning responses out of the way so that if someone else comes here looking for help you would simply give them the help instead of showing them how witty you are. Thanks for your input. Have a great day Mr. Mycroft.


    MLN

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    OldER Mycroft

    What I expected you to do was deliver a diatribe of rebuttal, which I would have richly deserved.

    The only reason I answered the way I did was that it took me back to 1979 when I felt much the same insult that you did on receipt of your pay increase.

    I felt extreme indignation (near anger actually) when I opened my pay slip envelope and saw my Pay Rise was to be 10%. ONLY 10% !!

    I fumed over this insult for much of the day, then a Production Controller old enough to be my grandfather grabbed me by the arm and hauled me out onto the shopfloor of the Printing Company where we both worked. He knew what was troubling me and wanted to put me in my place and no mistake. He thrust that week's edition of The Economist in my face and told me to take it out to my car, sit in it and read this Economist until I understood.

    The front page bore this legend:

    * Inflation of 27%
    * Powerful Trades unions causing wage inflation and time lost to strikes.
    * Unemployment increasing to a post war record of 700,000
    * High levels of government debt requires politically sensitive borrowing from the IMF (International Monetary Fund).

    Not a helluva lot different to today's economy, except we don't have inflation yet - so it actually was worse!

    I've never forgotten John VanDerHook or what he did for me that day. He prevented me from rushing into my Production Directors' office and risking losing my Account Executive job altogether.

    His short sharp shock treatment hit me square between the eyes and, 30 years later I still remember it word for word.

    Maybe you will too, way out there in 2039. :)

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    mnelson40

    Now that is more of what I was looking for. Thanks for that.


    MLN

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    OldER Mycroft

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    JamesRL

    Your salary is only one part of your total compensation.

    If you get zero benefits, and have little job security, you may have good reason to think you should be paid higher in the range - like a hired gun contractor. If you get good benefits and have good working conditions, expect to be in the lower end of a range.

    I can't tell you whether thats reasonable rate for the area, a local recruiter, or a glance at job ads might help there.

    As for raises, I work for a US based multinational, and so my raise ranges are set in the US. Generally thats slightly off what we would have considered average for last years raise (given in April), but consider that my company was experiencing double digit growth up till last September.

    Currently, no one in my company will be getting a raise this year. I highly doubt that my bonus, which is calculated primarily on our sales/profitability etc, will be anything to brag about, if we get anything.

    When figuring out raises, you have to look at larger numbers. You can always ask for more than you have been given, but you risk as well. If your employer got the work on a multi year fixed price contract with the military, there may not be room to get much more until the contract expires and is renegtotiated.

    BTW I used to support 150 people in one building, but it isn't always apples to oranges in comparison.

    James

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    mnelson40

    Thanks James. I appreciate your help. And I appreciate you not coming down on me even though my question may have been stupid or foolish. Of course if I don't ask then I'll never know, right? Anyways, thanks for trying to actually help me and not try to be demeaning like Old Mycroft. I see that I just need to be happy that I received anything and continue to provide the best service I can. Thanks.

    MLN

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    0 Votes
    ---TK---

    "If your employer got the work on a multi year fixed price contract with the military, there may not be room to get much more until the contract expires and is renegotiated."

    JamesRL is right, your employer might not have that much to work with... On the flip side, if you see his kid driving a BMW... I would start to think twice... lol... I would say keep the job for another year or so, and look around and get other job prospects. Then you have a bartering tool to bring to the table. "They are offering me this, can you match it to keep me?" sometimes this works sometimes it doesn't...

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    mnelson40

    Thanks and I apologize if my original question sounded like I was whining. I was insulted by what they gave me originally but after I calmed down I just wanted to know what the standard might be. I am new to this industry so I really don't know. Thanks for your advice. It has confirmed for that I just need to be happy for now and see what happens next year. Thanks again.


    MLN

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    0 Votes
    JamesRL

    Every company is different, and you have to look at context.

    During the IT Boom of 10 years ago, people in IT got bigger than average raises, because everyone was worried about employee retention. After the bust, and when we had a whole lot of unemployment and new IT grads on the market, it went the other way.

    I was laid off in 2002 and didn't get a permanent job (did some contracts) till 2004, roughly 18 months later. I took a jo at a much reduced salary that I was overqualified for, but I did in the last 5 years get a number of raises and promotions. But my salary is only now at the same level it was in 2002. But thats life.

    When you can say to your employer that you have consistently performed beyond expectations, and gone beyond your job description on an ongoing basis, then you can feel justified in going in an asking for a bigger than "normal" raise. But if you were in that position right now, I might hold off, given the current climate.

    James

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    0 Votes
    Jack-M

    I retired from the Bell System at 48. 30 yrs.
    Then I returned as a contractor. Great money, no benefits.I took an offer from a computer co. and after 1 year my contract was up and I was demoted to technician. 40% pay drop. Now I'm the tech every one in the group I'm a member of comes to asking "how do I ____(fill in the blank).37 people. Even the guy who demoted me handed me work orders and said to me "I know you'll do a good job". Be glad you have a job.

  • +
    0 Votes
    ---TK---

    Are you happy with what your doing? It could be a lot worse... I use to do something close to that, for 30K a year... only I/we supported 400 users (give or take a few) split between 4 techs...

    +
    0 Votes
    mnelson40

    I'm somewhat happy. It is frustrating with what I can't do because of our arrangement with the base (can't even create user accounts). I just wanted to make sure that I'm not being taken advantage of. I am always told of the good job I am doing and even though my review wasn't all the way to the left it was good. They seemed to drag their feet on telling me what my increase was (it is retro'ed back to 01/01/09) and that makes me think it is because they know it should have been more. When I did the math it came out to a raise of $0.55. If that is the norm considering my circumstances but that seemed more like what you would get at a retail job (not that there's anything wrong with that...lol). I guess I was most bothered/insulted by the raise. My annual salary is the most I have ever made in my life so, yeah my biggest issue is with the raise. Thanks.

    MLN

    +
    0 Votes
    OldER Mycroft

    Irrespective of your involvement, however tenuous, within the financial services/insurance market - I would have thought ANY person working in a position of responsibility would have at least a basic understanding of what is currently happening in the real world.

    That's the REAL WORLD, as opposed to the dream world that you currently inhabit.

    Unless you have taken an oath to bear arms in the defence of your country, your present location on a military base matters not a whit. Neither does the suggestion that this insurance company you are contracted to is in the habit of using computer facilities usually reserved for NORAD / NATO.

    From what I can glean, you take offence at 'having to cross the street' as part of your job of work. You also take umbrage at a pay rise of 2.5% at the end of your first full year.

    While I personally would have enjoyed the opportunity to get out of a stuffy computer room once in a while without having to invent a reason to do so, I don't think I've ever thought of it as an affront.

    I've just checked the current Base Rate for the USA and it doesn't appear to be quite as drastic as the rate in the UK, which as of today stands at 0.5%. Therefore without fully accurate info on the American rates, but treating the situation with the same degree of concern, I'd say that a pay rise anywhere above 1% is something you should kneel down and thank God for having received, because you are lucky that you have a salary to have any percentage rate applied to!

    As to "despite what I've seen online that I should be making between $50K - $60K with 0-4 years experience" - well ! What can I say ?

    I could ask where you found this information?

    I might even inquire if there was a date attached to this information, indicating if it was perhaps written before the present global economic collapse?

    Perhaps you are one of the people that believe everything you read on the internet is TRUE - but then again you're a system administrator aren't you? You have 68 people relying on your technical skills, your level-headedness, your logical mature and intelligent thought capabilities.

    You don't believe that everything you see on the internet is true, do you?

    Do you?

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    0 Votes
    mnelson40

    I don't know if the purpose of your reply was to be insulting or patronizing. I apologize if my lack of experience or understanding of the world bothers/stuns you. Maybe my post was not clear in what I wanted to know. My reason for posting this was to find out what the standard is so that if what I received falls in that range or exceeds then I can move on and be happy. I am very grateful for anything that I receive whether the economy is good or bad. I thank God everyday for everything I have, including my job since I know that there are many people that don't even have that. I had an expectation and when it didn't happen I was insulted. Right or wrong that is what I felt. Sorry that I am simply human. I apparently have not reached you level of enlightenment. Now I have something else to aspire to. Thanks. Also, instead of trying to glean what you think someone means maybe you should just ask for clarification. My reason for stating that I must walk across the street was to paint a picture of my situation so that anyone wanting to give me an oponion or advice would have enough information to do so. I apologize if that didn't happen. The reason I stated that I worked on a base was so that it could be noted that I may not be able to do everything that a typical job description may list. I understand that because I am limited in what I can do here on base it could affect things like pay and increases. I also understand that a lack of experience also plays a part in that. And no, I don't believe everything I read on the Internet. That is why I posted my question here to get opinions from those that have them instead of running to my manager demanding to be paid what I found. You sound very intelligent in how you write and I obviously am not in your league so forgive me if my question was an affront to your intelligence and experience. I hope you were able to get all of your demeaning responses out of the way so that if someone else comes here looking for help you would simply give them the help instead of showing them how witty you are. Thanks for your input. Have a great day Mr. Mycroft.


    MLN

    +
    0 Votes
    OldER Mycroft

    What I expected you to do was deliver a diatribe of rebuttal, which I would have richly deserved.

    The only reason I answered the way I did was that it took me back to 1979 when I felt much the same insult that you did on receipt of your pay increase.

    I felt extreme indignation (near anger actually) when I opened my pay slip envelope and saw my Pay Rise was to be 10%. ONLY 10% !!

    I fumed over this insult for much of the day, then a Production Controller old enough to be my grandfather grabbed me by the arm and hauled me out onto the shopfloor of the Printing Company where we both worked. He knew what was troubling me and wanted to put me in my place and no mistake. He thrust that week's edition of The Economist in my face and told me to take it out to my car, sit in it and read this Economist until I understood.

    The front page bore this legend:

    * Inflation of 27%
    * Powerful Trades unions causing wage inflation and time lost to strikes.
    * Unemployment increasing to a post war record of 700,000
    * High levels of government debt requires politically sensitive borrowing from the IMF (International Monetary Fund).

    Not a helluva lot different to today's economy, except we don't have inflation yet - so it actually was worse!

    I've never forgotten John VanDerHook or what he did for me that day. He prevented me from rushing into my Production Directors' office and risking losing my Account Executive job altogether.

    His short sharp shock treatment hit me square between the eyes and, 30 years later I still remember it word for word.

    Maybe you will too, way out there in 2039. :)

    +
    0 Votes
    mnelson40

    Now that is more of what I was looking for. Thanks for that.


    MLN

    +
    0 Votes
    OldER Mycroft

    +
    0 Votes
    JamesRL

    Your salary is only one part of your total compensation.

    If you get zero benefits, and have little job security, you may have good reason to think you should be paid higher in the range - like a hired gun contractor. If you get good benefits and have good working conditions, expect to be in the lower end of a range.

    I can't tell you whether thats reasonable rate for the area, a local recruiter, or a glance at job ads might help there.

    As for raises, I work for a US based multinational, and so my raise ranges are set in the US. Generally thats slightly off what we would have considered average for last years raise (given in April), but consider that my company was experiencing double digit growth up till last September.

    Currently, no one in my company will be getting a raise this year. I highly doubt that my bonus, which is calculated primarily on our sales/profitability etc, will be anything to brag about, if we get anything.

    When figuring out raises, you have to look at larger numbers. You can always ask for more than you have been given, but you risk as well. If your employer got the work on a multi year fixed price contract with the military, there may not be room to get much more until the contract expires and is renegtotiated.

    BTW I used to support 150 people in one building, but it isn't always apples to oranges in comparison.

    James

    +
    0 Votes
    mnelson40

    Thanks James. I appreciate your help. And I appreciate you not coming down on me even though my question may have been stupid or foolish. Of course if I don't ask then I'll never know, right? Anyways, thanks for trying to actually help me and not try to be demeaning like Old Mycroft. I see that I just need to be happy that I received anything and continue to provide the best service I can. Thanks.

    MLN

    +
    0 Votes
    ---TK---

    "If your employer got the work on a multi year fixed price contract with the military, there may not be room to get much more until the contract expires and is renegotiated."

    JamesRL is right, your employer might not have that much to work with... On the flip side, if you see his kid driving a BMW... I would start to think twice... lol... I would say keep the job for another year or so, and look around and get other job prospects. Then you have a bartering tool to bring to the table. "They are offering me this, can you match it to keep me?" sometimes this works sometimes it doesn't...

    +
    0 Votes
    mnelson40

    Thanks and I apologize if my original question sounded like I was whining. I was insulted by what they gave me originally but after I calmed down I just wanted to know what the standard might be. I am new to this industry so I really don't know. Thanks for your advice. It has confirmed for that I just need to be happy for now and see what happens next year. Thanks again.


    MLN

    +
    0 Votes
    JamesRL

    Every company is different, and you have to look at context.

    During the IT Boom of 10 years ago, people in IT got bigger than average raises, because everyone was worried about employee retention. After the bust, and when we had a whole lot of unemployment and new IT grads on the market, it went the other way.

    I was laid off in 2002 and didn't get a permanent job (did some contracts) till 2004, roughly 18 months later. I took a jo at a much reduced salary that I was overqualified for, but I did in the last 5 years get a number of raises and promotions. But my salary is only now at the same level it was in 2002. But thats life.

    When you can say to your employer that you have consistently performed beyond expectations, and gone beyond your job description on an ongoing basis, then you can feel justified in going in an asking for a bigger than "normal" raise. But if you were in that position right now, I might hold off, given the current climate.

    James

    +
    0 Votes
    Jack-M

    I retired from the Bell System at 48. 30 yrs.
    Then I returned as a contractor. Great money, no benefits.I took an offer from a computer co. and after 1 year my contract was up and I was demoted to technician. 40% pay drop. Now I'm the tech every one in the group I'm a member of comes to asking "how do I ____(fill in the blank).37 people. Even the guy who demoted me handed me work orders and said to me "I know you'll do a good job". Be glad you have a job.