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RAID with a Partitioned Hardrive HELP!!!!!

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RAID with a Partitioned Hardrive HELP!!!!!

viccuranovic
I have windows 2003 server (R2) and My hardrive is partitioned (C & D). I need to setup a RAID 1 Config for my O.S. and RAID 5 for my Data. But how do I go about doing that since they are partitioned? Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
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    HAL 9000 Moderator

    But you do it from the initial setup and this will involve wiping the HDD's and setting up the RAID at the first step in installing the OS.

    Not sure if you can have 2 different RAID Systems on the one machine but maybe if you have a hardware Raid on the Boot Drives you may be able to setup a Software RAID on the Data Drives though I'm defiantly not sure if it will work or how reliable it would be if setup that way.

    Col

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    jdclyde

    I have read you can have more than one raid setup, but never looked to see if they would have to be the same level of raid or not.

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    HAL 9000 Moderator

    Even know if it's possible.

    With every Hardware RAID that I have ever setup you can have different Arrays but they are the same type of Array so if you chose RAID 0 you can have 2 RAID 0 setup of if you want RAID 5 you can have 2 RAID 5 Setup but I've never heard of having 2 Different Raid configurations on the one machine and I've never seen anything in print on how this would be possible.

    Hence the suggestion of a combination of a Hardware RAID for the Boot Drives and a Software RAID for the RAID 5 Array. In theory it should work but I've never tested a machine set that way so I'm not sure.

    Col

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    daveo2000

    We used to set up the OS drive with mirroring and the data drives RAID 5. I also think that you can do things like this with the A1000 arrays (Sun equipment). They are full hardware RAID control in the array cabinet.

    It looks to me like this guy is trying to RAID 2 partitions on the same physical drive. Did I miss something?

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    HAL 9000 Moderator

    Or just took it for granted that more drives would be installed.

    Like no one is going to attempt to setup a RAID Array on 2 Partitions on 1 HDD are they?

    Maybe it was me reading something that wasn't there and expecting the necessary hardware to just be added. As there is no mention of Windows either I suppose that I just assumed that it was Windows that they wanted to do this on. Generally other people say which OS that they want to try something out on and if nothing is mentioned it's Windows as there isn't another OS is there?

    Col

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    jdclyde

    I missed that too because it is not possible, I did not consider it.

    I am hoping that he was just using the wrong terms for the right job?

    Got to have multiple physical drives unless your only doing software mirror, which is NOT raid.

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    viccuranovic

    I totally understand that its not possible to RAID a partitioned drive. I did not make the post clear. Can I GHOST (Image) the actual drive (C drive) and have to separate physical drives??????

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    0 Votes
    HAL 9000 Moderator

    The OS to one drive and the Data to another?

    Or what. Either way I'm not sure that this can be done as you can not rebuild what was never present in the first place, though it may be possible to establish the Hardware RAID for the OS and then Ghost the OS to that Array but that would load a heap of error messages with the setup even if it did work and I'm not sure that you could even do it.

    Then depending on the available hardware you would have to establish the RAID 5 Array and GHOST the Data to that so you would have C Drive being the RAID 1 and D Drive being the RAID 5 which may work without errors but I'm not really sure and it would be much easier installing from scratch and then recovering your AD and any GP's that you have in place as well as your data as anything on the Ghost Drives would have the wrong or missing drivers in it so it may break the Software Raid. But I'm not sure as I've never tried something like thing previously.

    Col

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    viccuranovic

    No your rite. It seems there is no easy way of going about this. In any case I will just set it up as RAID 5. I appreciate the feedback

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    daveo2000

    The idea of RAID is that if one physical drive fails, you can reconstruct your data from the remaining drives or, in the case of mirroring, the data exists on two seperate physical drives.

    Additionally, RAID can speed up data access by allowing data to be spread over different physical drives, therefore using multiple sets of read/write heads going after related data.

    What you appear to be asking for defeats both of these ideas since it would be using one set of heads and one drive.

    RAID:
    Redundant - more than one
    Array of - grouped together
    Inexpensive/Independant - low cost
    Drives - physical (not logical) units (plural).

    If there is only one physical drive, it isn't "redundant", it isn't an "array" and it isn't plural.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

    Please note that "Software RAID" still uses seperate physical disks and sits just above the device driver. This is before the interpretation of partitions which is where you want to do it.

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    jdclyde

    There is something called the KISS technique. Keep it simple stupid.

    The more complex you make something, the HARDER it will be for you to maintain it.

    Make the entire thing RAID 5. The OS doesn't take up THAT much space, and everytime you segment your drives, you limit yourself.

    Suppose you fill up your data section, but have plenty of space not being used on the OS segment, because it is only the OS?

    Put it all together and raid 5 it all. If you ever have a crash or start thinking you could fill up your drives, you will be glad you did it that way.

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    0 Votes
    daveo2000

    What we do is mirror the OS and RAID 5 the data but with different physical disks. The OS is mirrored so that you can make a new OS build on a different disk, break the mirror, deactivate the remaining OS disk, install the new OS disk and test. If the new disk fails to work right you just revert. If the new one works then you just "rebuild" the mirror overwriting the old OS copy.

    AS far as the data goes, mirroring gets pretty expensive so RAID 5 is fine.

    Whether or not you can do this on one physical drive with different logical partitions is up in the air. I am now hoping he is asking to mirror C: onto a different disk but I first read this as mirroring C: onto D:. Maybe just still asleep.

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    jdclyde

    but you can't RAID on logical drives.

    also, RAID 5 uses more disks than mirroring because it does mirror AND stripe (raid 0 and 1) giving you reliability AND speed.

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    0 Votes
    viccuranovic

    I understand that RAID will not work when you have logical drives. They have to be actual physical drives. I wanted to have RAID 1 for the OS and RAID 5 for data (for RAID 5 you have to have at least 3 physical drives for it to work). I really did not explain in detail of the POST, I apologize for that. I need to know what is the best way to tackle this problem, be it image of the drives and separate them into two onto physical drives (if that is possible) or any other suggestions.

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    0 Votes
    huoml

    then creating, at hardware level, RAID-1 (minimum two drives) for your C (OS) and creating RAID-5 (minimum three drives) would be the basic solution.

    If you are asking if you could keep your current install of OS and somehow transfer to the new RAID OS drive, I do not know.

    The data can always be backed up before reconfiguring from scratch and then copied back to newly configured data drive.

  • +
    0 Votes
    HAL 9000 Moderator

    But you do it from the initial setup and this will involve wiping the HDD's and setting up the RAID at the first step in installing the OS.

    Not sure if you can have 2 different RAID Systems on the one machine but maybe if you have a hardware Raid on the Boot Drives you may be able to setup a Software RAID on the Data Drives though I'm defiantly not sure if it will work or how reliable it would be if setup that way.

    Col

    +
    0 Votes
    jdclyde

    I have read you can have more than one raid setup, but never looked to see if they would have to be the same level of raid or not.

    +
    0 Votes
    HAL 9000 Moderator

    Even know if it's possible.

    With every Hardware RAID that I have ever setup you can have different Arrays but they are the same type of Array so if you chose RAID 0 you can have 2 RAID 0 setup of if you want RAID 5 you can have 2 RAID 5 Setup but I've never heard of having 2 Different Raid configurations on the one machine and I've never seen anything in print on how this would be possible.

    Hence the suggestion of a combination of a Hardware RAID for the Boot Drives and a Software RAID for the RAID 5 Array. In theory it should work but I've never tested a machine set that way so I'm not sure.

    Col

    +
    0 Votes
    daveo2000

    We used to set up the OS drive with mirroring and the data drives RAID 5. I also think that you can do things like this with the A1000 arrays (Sun equipment). They are full hardware RAID control in the array cabinet.

    It looks to me like this guy is trying to RAID 2 partitions on the same physical drive. Did I miss something?

    +
    0 Votes
    HAL 9000 Moderator

    Or just took it for granted that more drives would be installed.

    Like no one is going to attempt to setup a RAID Array on 2 Partitions on 1 HDD are they?

    Maybe it was me reading something that wasn't there and expecting the necessary hardware to just be added. As there is no mention of Windows either I suppose that I just assumed that it was Windows that they wanted to do this on. Generally other people say which OS that they want to try something out on and if nothing is mentioned it's Windows as there isn't another OS is there?

    Col

    +
    0 Votes
    jdclyde

    I missed that too because it is not possible, I did not consider it.

    I am hoping that he was just using the wrong terms for the right job?

    Got to have multiple physical drives unless your only doing software mirror, which is NOT raid.

    +
    0 Votes
    viccuranovic

    I totally understand that its not possible to RAID a partitioned drive. I did not make the post clear. Can I GHOST (Image) the actual drive (C drive) and have to separate physical drives??????

    +
    0 Votes
    HAL 9000 Moderator

    The OS to one drive and the Data to another?

    Or what. Either way I'm not sure that this can be done as you can not rebuild what was never present in the first place, though it may be possible to establish the Hardware RAID for the OS and then Ghost the OS to that Array but that would load a heap of error messages with the setup even if it did work and I'm not sure that you could even do it.

    Then depending on the available hardware you would have to establish the RAID 5 Array and GHOST the Data to that so you would have C Drive being the RAID 1 and D Drive being the RAID 5 which may work without errors but I'm not really sure and it would be much easier installing from scratch and then recovering your AD and any GP's that you have in place as well as your data as anything on the Ghost Drives would have the wrong or missing drivers in it so it may break the Software Raid. But I'm not sure as I've never tried something like thing previously.

    Col

    +
    0 Votes
    viccuranovic

    No your rite. It seems there is no easy way of going about this. In any case I will just set it up as RAID 5. I appreciate the feedback

    +
    0 Votes
    daveo2000

    The idea of RAID is that if one physical drive fails, you can reconstruct your data from the remaining drives or, in the case of mirroring, the data exists on two seperate physical drives.

    Additionally, RAID can speed up data access by allowing data to be spread over different physical drives, therefore using multiple sets of read/write heads going after related data.

    What you appear to be asking for defeats both of these ideas since it would be using one set of heads and one drive.

    RAID:
    Redundant - more than one
    Array of - grouped together
    Inexpensive/Independant - low cost
    Drives - physical (not logical) units (plural).

    If there is only one physical drive, it isn't "redundant", it isn't an "array" and it isn't plural.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

    Please note that "Software RAID" still uses seperate physical disks and sits just above the device driver. This is before the interpretation of partitions which is where you want to do it.

    +
    0 Votes
    jdclyde

    There is something called the KISS technique. Keep it simple stupid.

    The more complex you make something, the HARDER it will be for you to maintain it.

    Make the entire thing RAID 5. The OS doesn't take up THAT much space, and everytime you segment your drives, you limit yourself.

    Suppose you fill up your data section, but have plenty of space not being used on the OS segment, because it is only the OS?

    Put it all together and raid 5 it all. If you ever have a crash or start thinking you could fill up your drives, you will be glad you did it that way.

    +
    0 Votes
    daveo2000

    What we do is mirror the OS and RAID 5 the data but with different physical disks. The OS is mirrored so that you can make a new OS build on a different disk, break the mirror, deactivate the remaining OS disk, install the new OS disk and test. If the new disk fails to work right you just revert. If the new one works then you just "rebuild" the mirror overwriting the old OS copy.

    AS far as the data goes, mirroring gets pretty expensive so RAID 5 is fine.

    Whether or not you can do this on one physical drive with different logical partitions is up in the air. I am now hoping he is asking to mirror C: onto a different disk but I first read this as mirroring C: onto D:. Maybe just still asleep.

    +
    0 Votes
    jdclyde

    but you can't RAID on logical drives.

    also, RAID 5 uses more disks than mirroring because it does mirror AND stripe (raid 0 and 1) giving you reliability AND speed.

    +
    0 Votes
    viccuranovic

    I understand that RAID will not work when you have logical drives. They have to be actual physical drives. I wanted to have RAID 1 for the OS and RAID 5 for data (for RAID 5 you have to have at least 3 physical drives for it to work). I really did not explain in detail of the POST, I apologize for that. I need to know what is the best way to tackle this problem, be it image of the drives and separate them into two onto physical drives (if that is possible) or any other suggestions.

    +
    0 Votes
    huoml

    then creating, at hardware level, RAID-1 (minimum two drives) for your C (OS) and creating RAID-5 (minimum three drives) would be the basic solution.

    If you are asking if you could keep your current install of OS and somehow transfer to the new RAID OS drive, I do not know.

    The data can always be backed up before reconfiguring from scratch and then copied back to newly configured data drive.