Questions

SATA PCI Interfaced HDD

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SATA PCI Interfaced HDD

jrpfeiffer
The computer has a bootable EIDE hard drive with XP Home installed. The motherboard doesn't physically support SATA. The goal is to install a new SATA hard drive using a PCI interface card that can be set up as RAID or non-RAID (non-RAID is the preference)and use it as the new boot drive with a new OS. The XP Pro setup doesn't recognize the SATA drive even using the F6 option and installing the appropriate drivers for the IF card. It only sees the C: drive. The SATA drive has been partitioned into 2 drives, G: and H:. These drives can be accessed and used through My Computer or any other means. Just can't install the OS and use it as the boot drive. I have disabled C: and booted from the XP Pro CD using the F6 option and setup can't find any HD. Any suggestions
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    ralphg_hoo

    Using F6 option, does xp find the pci card?
    I would think it should.
    Depending on your motherboard, you will need to change the bios boot order, and disable booting from drives connected to the other interface's (ide/usb).
    To be safe, physically pull the IDE cables for any HD's, then boot from the XP disk, give it the PCI card drivers, and I believe xp will find the drive. You should select create a new partition, to make sure that it's a primary and active partition. I have done this, and it was a pain, I actually disconnected all other possible drives including usb, except for the CD.

    Good luck.
    Please provide further details if you have problems.

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    HAL 9000 Moderator

    It's possible that you have a Chip Set incompatibility between the M'Board and PCI to SATA Card which is preventing the unit from working.

    But no matter what when you press the F6 key you need the drivers copied to the Root of a Floppy or you'll be unable to load them.

    Col

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    jrpfeiffer

    I pulled the cables from the IDE drive and I disabled master and slave in the BIOS setup. XP install doesn't see any drive (even after using F6). If I boot from the IDE drive, Windows recognizes the SATA drive. I formatted and partitioned it. But, I still can't install XP Pro on it. HELP !!!!

    Thanx for you interest. Have a great day !!

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    0 Votes
    HAL 9000 Moderator

    I disabled master and slave in the BIOS setup

    What is the type of computer or M'Board that you have here? BIOS doesn't set the Master Slave HDD in any computer that I've ever seen but just shows what has already been set on the HDD themselves. Just how old is the M'Board/computer in this case?

    When you press the F6 Key when installing Windows you need the drivers copied to the root of a floppy that is you need the correct drivers copied directly to a floppy without folders just the drivers that you need straight to the floppy.

    Col

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    jrpfeiffer

    MB is FIC AM37. The computer is an eMachine T2482. CPU is an AMD Athlon XP 2Ghz. The BIOS refers to "IDE Primary Master and Slave and IDE Secondary Master and Slave." Regarding F6, that's exactly what I did.

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    juan18_c

    To upgrade your BIOS firmware??? Remember that if u have a legacy mb you definately need an upgraded bios firmware. You can log in to your bios and look at the version you currently have. Post back n let us know your progress

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    jrpfeiffer

    Waiting for a reply from esupport.com for BOIS upgrade info. Will advise. Thanx for your support.

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    ralphg_hoo

    What motherboard or computer model number?

    Does your cmos/bios have the option to select 'other' bootable disks?

    If XP can see the drive, obviously the interface card and drives are ok.
    To boot, cmos must find the drive or allow boot from the added PCI card.

    Model/version or mb info required.

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    0 Votes
    jrpfeiffer

    MB is FIC AM37. Computer is eMachine T2482 w/ AMD Athlon XP 2Ghz processor. BIOS is Phoenix-Award 03/18/2003-KM266-8235-6A6LVF0DC.
    There is something referring to 'other' but I'd need to re-boot to be specific.

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    ralphg_hoo

    Noticed your awaiting a bios upgrade, good luck.

    The FIC website lists VLB44 2/10/2003 as the latest bios for your board. Do you have this?

    The FIC website also has the manual for your board, including bios settings.

    On the "advanced BIOS Features" page,
    ENABLE "Boot Other Device",
    Then go into "Hard Disk Boot Priority" and set your CD first, then the "other" device.

    Good luck, and please reply with details.

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    0 Votes
    HAL 9000 Moderator

    CPU: AMD Athlon? XP 2400+ Processor (2.00GHz) with QuantiSpeed? architecture
    Operating System: Genuine Microsoft? Windows? XP Home
    Chipset: VIA KM 266
    Memory: 256MB DDR (PC 2100)
    Hard Drive: 80GB HDD
    Optical Drive: 48x Max. CD-RW Drive, 16x Max. DVD Drive, 3.5" 1.44MB FDD
    Video: S3 ProSavage8? integrated (1 AGP slot available)
    Sound: AC '97 Audio
    Network: 10/100Mbps built-in Ethernet
    Modem: 56K ITU v.92-ready Fax/Modem
    Peripherals: Multimedia Keyboard, 2-Button Wheel Mouse, Amplified Stereo Speakers
    Ports/Other: 6 USB 2.0 ports (2 on front), 1 Serial, 1 Parallel, 2 PS/2, Microphone-In & Head Phone jack on front, Audio-In & Out, 3 PCI slots (2 available)
    Dimensions: 7.25"W x 14.125"H x 16"D


    As you'll notice you have a VIA KM 266 Chip Set M'Board and the most likely reason that you are unable to Boot off the PCI to SATA Card is that it's not compatible as a Boot-able Unit with that Chip Set M'Board.

    You don't have the SATA Drivers on the Floppy but the PCI Card Drivers which will allow you to install the correct drivers for the PCI Card and that will then allow the SATA Drive to be recognised that's at least how it should work.

    The BIOS is only showing what is already set on the HDD's so you are not moving anything around there just removing the IDE Drives from the setup of the computer and you'll need the Primary Master IDE drive installed to allow the SATA Drive to boot the OS as that is the default drive. Even if you change the BIOS Boot Order the Primary IDE Drive once reinstalled will become the default Boot Drive that has files written to it to point to the Windows installation and allow the copy of Windows Installed to boot from. As you are not concerned with setting up a RAID Array what is so important in booting off the SATA Drive? you will notice very little difference in booting off the SATA Drive to an IDE Drive unless you have a very slow IDE Drive installed. As the system is working with the PCI to SATA Card in it booting off a IDE HDD is it really important to make it boot off the SATA Drive?

    As you are unable to load the PCI to SATA Drivers and allow the SATA Drive to be seen in initial loading your only option is to try a different Chip Set/Brand PCI Card and try again. As you have a VIA Chip Set M'Board you may need to try a few different makes of this type of PCI Card till you find one that will work with that M'Board in the way that you wish it to. Yes I know that it works once Windows is loaded but there is something preventing it loading and allowing Windows to be installed to the SATA Drive so from that prospective the PCI Card isn't working properly to suit your needs. You may like to try a Promise Technology PCI to SATA Card which are quite good but even still I'm not sure how well they work with VIA Chip Set M'Boards. So you could be in for a lot of Trial & Error and be changing PCI Cards till you find one that suits your needs.

    Personally as the unit is now working I would leave it alone and use the SATA Drive as a Data Drive which has the ability to access the data slightly faster than the IDE Drive possibly can and leave it at that. Your only other option is to keep changing PCI to SATA Cards till you find one that works the way that you want it to and this may not even be possible with that particular Chip Set M'Board.

    I try to avoid AMD setups as AMD currently do not make M'Board Chip sets and there are always problems with compatibility between different plug in parts. The most common is between the M'Boards and Plug in Video Cards which cause the unit not to work but a different brand with the same chip set Video Card will work on the same M'Board and that is one of the easier things to look out for.

    What you are trying to do here may not be possible and even if it is you'll need to try several PCI to SATA Cards till you find one that works the way that you require.

    Col

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    jrpfeiffer

    I certainly appreciate the time you've taken to address my concern. I'm not so sure I like what you have to say . . . but!

    The 80G HD has so much stuff on it because of a lot of things (about 15G left). I also believe it spins at 5400 rpm. The entire system is terribly slow.

    I was hoping to use the SATA drive as the boot drive with a new operating system and the heavy-duty, commonly-used apps. and the 80G as data storage with all the stuff it currently has installed on it. As stuff was needed on the SATA, it could be retrieved from the 80G.

    I suppose I could dump all of the 80G stuff onto the SATA and do the new install on the 80G after a Format C:. I just don't have a lot of time for trial and error. There's already been a very strong suggestion to replace the computer with a new one. Some great deals are available ! I'm not sure where my pride will let me go with this.

    Anyway, thanx again. I sincerely appreciate your input.

    John

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    0 Votes
    HAL 9000 Moderator

    Make sure that it's loaded with XP and has the Vista Upgrade Offer available. Currently Vista lacks quite a lot of things that will make it usable as XP is but you would be better getting the option to upgrade when you want to and not be stuck as a Paying Beta Tester for M$ on Vista as everyone who is currently using Vista is now.

    Col

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    videowhiterabbit

    Transcript of conversation between two techies:
    Think I found the forum that I was looking for... on SATA PCI interface issues...

    http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=101&threadID=211846&start=0

    "To be safe, physically pull the IDE cables for any HD's, then boot from the XP disk, give it the PCI card drivers, and I believe xp will find the drive. You should select create a new partition, to make sure that it's a primary and active partition. I have done this, and it was a pain, I actually disconnected all other possible drives including USB, except for the CD."

    Like you were saying... interesting...

    Like minds...

    Ah one point that I have overlooked...

    When installing the OS... there is an option to install RAID at a F6 prompt...

    I selected past this... might try a go at installing these... at the OS load...

    Yes I knew about the F6 RAID driver?s thing, but I don't think that will make a difference for the sata issue
    Once other thing you can try is to disable the IDE controller from within bios

    True, good point...

    Hopefully this other comment is not an issue..."the most likely reason that you are unable to Boot off the PCI to SATA Card is that it's not compatible as a Boot-able Unit with that Chip Set M'Board.

    You don't have the SATA Drivers on the Floppy but the PCI Card Drivers which will allow you to install the correct drivers for the PCI Card and that will then allow the SATA Drive to be recognized that's at least how it should work.

    The BIOS is only showing what is already set on the HDD's so you are not moving anything around there just removing the IDE Drives from the setup of the computer and you'll need the Primary Master IDE drive installed to allow the SATA Drive to boot the OS as that is the default drive. Even if you change the BIOS Boot Order the Primary IDE Drive once reinstalled will become the default Boot Drive that has files written to it to point to the Windows installation and allow the copy of Windows Installed to boot from. As you are not concerned with setting up a RAID Array what is so important in booting off the SATA Drive? You will notice very little difference in booting off the SATA Drive to an IDE Drive unless you have a very slow IDE Drive installed. As the system is working with the PCI to SATA Card in it booting off an IDE HDD is it really important to make it boot off the SATA Drive?

    As you are unable to load the PCI to SATA Drivers and allow the SATA Drive to be seen in initial loading your only option is to try a different Chip Set/Brand PCI Card and try again. "

    See the last question is what I am trying to over come... bottleneck of the slower EIDE drive with application issues...

    But good point in disabling the IDE controller... will see if that lets the SATA drives boot off the OS...
    Right this should take care of slowness when using apps

    Do you have the same bottleneck issues even after reinstalling windows and your apps fresh on an IDE HDD?

    ?

    Well I was only running off the one drive then... off the EIDE... and had USB external drives to store dat/ video files... but mainly installed apps right on the main internal EIDE...

    And yes there was some lag. Or slowness...

    But not the freezing I am seeing now...

    Read one blog where a chap from the UK had swappable drives he could plug and chug into his system... thatwas his work around...not sure if he had mainly sata drives on that build..

    Hot setup if you ask me...

    Instead of having multiple PC's to run your apps... just swap out the drive with the heavy resorce apps... and away you go...

    It has been an educational venture though...

    And one I needed to challenge myself... on the faster interfaces and trying to get the most out my current system...

    He was probably using ide drives

    The last thread in that discussion looks like the guy finally gave up trying to make it work and is considering a new system... possibly sata capable on the board...

    On the swappable setup

    Possibly...

    Which might be the easiest?

    Still though when you?re looking for the high transfer rate of 3 gigs per sec on the sata... EIDE does not come close...

    That is probably why the freeze up in my current setup...

    Between the PCI controller spitting out data faster than the on board controller can handle...

    There is not real way, which I know of to verify this is happening... just a logical assumption...

  • +
    0 Votes
    ralphg_hoo

    Using F6 option, does xp find the pci card?
    I would think it should.
    Depending on your motherboard, you will need to change the bios boot order, and disable booting from drives connected to the other interface's (ide/usb).
    To be safe, physically pull the IDE cables for any HD's, then boot from the XP disk, give it the PCI card drivers, and I believe xp will find the drive. You should select create a new partition, to make sure that it's a primary and active partition. I have done this, and it was a pain, I actually disconnected all other possible drives including usb, except for the CD.

    Good luck.
    Please provide further details if you have problems.

    +
    0 Votes
    HAL 9000 Moderator

    It's possible that you have a Chip Set incompatibility between the M'Board and PCI to SATA Card which is preventing the unit from working.

    But no matter what when you press the F6 key you need the drivers copied to the Root of a Floppy or you'll be unable to load them.

    Col

    +
    0 Votes
    jrpfeiffer

    I pulled the cables from the IDE drive and I disabled master and slave in the BIOS setup. XP install doesn't see any drive (even after using F6). If I boot from the IDE drive, Windows recognizes the SATA drive. I formatted and partitioned it. But, I still can't install XP Pro on it. HELP !!!!

    Thanx for you interest. Have a great day !!

    +
    0 Votes
    HAL 9000 Moderator

    I disabled master and slave in the BIOS setup

    What is the type of computer or M'Board that you have here? BIOS doesn't set the Master Slave HDD in any computer that I've ever seen but just shows what has already been set on the HDD themselves. Just how old is the M'Board/computer in this case?

    When you press the F6 Key when installing Windows you need the drivers copied to the root of a floppy that is you need the correct drivers copied directly to a floppy without folders just the drivers that you need straight to the floppy.

    Col

    +
    0 Votes
    jrpfeiffer

    MB is FIC AM37. The computer is an eMachine T2482. CPU is an AMD Athlon XP 2Ghz. The BIOS refers to "IDE Primary Master and Slave and IDE Secondary Master and Slave." Regarding F6, that's exactly what I did.

    +
    0 Votes
    juan18_c

    To upgrade your BIOS firmware??? Remember that if u have a legacy mb you definately need an upgraded bios firmware. You can log in to your bios and look at the version you currently have. Post back n let us know your progress

    +
    0 Votes
    jrpfeiffer

    Waiting for a reply from esupport.com for BOIS upgrade info. Will advise. Thanx for your support.

    +
    0 Votes
    ralphg_hoo

    What motherboard or computer model number?

    Does your cmos/bios have the option to select 'other' bootable disks?

    If XP can see the drive, obviously the interface card and drives are ok.
    To boot, cmos must find the drive or allow boot from the added PCI card.

    Model/version or mb info required.

    +
    0 Votes
    jrpfeiffer

    MB is FIC AM37. Computer is eMachine T2482 w/ AMD Athlon XP 2Ghz processor. BIOS is Phoenix-Award 03/18/2003-KM266-8235-6A6LVF0DC.
    There is something referring to 'other' but I'd need to re-boot to be specific.

    +
    0 Votes
    ralphg_hoo

    Noticed your awaiting a bios upgrade, good luck.

    The FIC website lists VLB44 2/10/2003 as the latest bios for your board. Do you have this?

    The FIC website also has the manual for your board, including bios settings.

    On the "advanced BIOS Features" page,
    ENABLE "Boot Other Device",
    Then go into "Hard Disk Boot Priority" and set your CD first, then the "other" device.

    Good luck, and please reply with details.

    +
    0 Votes
    HAL 9000 Moderator

    CPU: AMD Athlon? XP 2400+ Processor (2.00GHz) with QuantiSpeed? architecture
    Operating System: Genuine Microsoft? Windows? XP Home
    Chipset: VIA KM 266
    Memory: 256MB DDR (PC 2100)
    Hard Drive: 80GB HDD
    Optical Drive: 48x Max. CD-RW Drive, 16x Max. DVD Drive, 3.5" 1.44MB FDD
    Video: S3 ProSavage8? integrated (1 AGP slot available)
    Sound: AC '97 Audio
    Network: 10/100Mbps built-in Ethernet
    Modem: 56K ITU v.92-ready Fax/Modem
    Peripherals: Multimedia Keyboard, 2-Button Wheel Mouse, Amplified Stereo Speakers
    Ports/Other: 6 USB 2.0 ports (2 on front), 1 Serial, 1 Parallel, 2 PS/2, Microphone-In & Head Phone jack on front, Audio-In & Out, 3 PCI slots (2 available)
    Dimensions: 7.25"W x 14.125"H x 16"D


    As you'll notice you have a VIA KM 266 Chip Set M'Board and the most likely reason that you are unable to Boot off the PCI to SATA Card is that it's not compatible as a Boot-able Unit with that Chip Set M'Board.

    You don't have the SATA Drivers on the Floppy but the PCI Card Drivers which will allow you to install the correct drivers for the PCI Card and that will then allow the SATA Drive to be recognised that's at least how it should work.

    The BIOS is only showing what is already set on the HDD's so you are not moving anything around there just removing the IDE Drives from the setup of the computer and you'll need the Primary Master IDE drive installed to allow the SATA Drive to boot the OS as that is the default drive. Even if you change the BIOS Boot Order the Primary IDE Drive once reinstalled will become the default Boot Drive that has files written to it to point to the Windows installation and allow the copy of Windows Installed to boot from. As you are not concerned with setting up a RAID Array what is so important in booting off the SATA Drive? you will notice very little difference in booting off the SATA Drive to an IDE Drive unless you have a very slow IDE Drive installed. As the system is working with the PCI to SATA Card in it booting off a IDE HDD is it really important to make it boot off the SATA Drive?

    As you are unable to load the PCI to SATA Drivers and allow the SATA Drive to be seen in initial loading your only option is to try a different Chip Set/Brand PCI Card and try again. As you have a VIA Chip Set M'Board you may need to try a few different makes of this type of PCI Card till you find one that will work with that M'Board in the way that you wish it to. Yes I know that it works once Windows is loaded but there is something preventing it loading and allowing Windows to be installed to the SATA Drive so from that prospective the PCI Card isn't working properly to suit your needs. You may like to try a Promise Technology PCI to SATA Card which are quite good but even still I'm not sure how well they work with VIA Chip Set M'Boards. So you could be in for a lot of Trial & Error and be changing PCI Cards till you find one that suits your needs.

    Personally as the unit is now working I would leave it alone and use the SATA Drive as a Data Drive which has the ability to access the data slightly faster than the IDE Drive possibly can and leave it at that. Your only other option is to keep changing PCI to SATA Cards till you find one that works the way that you want it to and this may not even be possible with that particular Chip Set M'Board.

    I try to avoid AMD setups as AMD currently do not make M'Board Chip sets and there are always problems with compatibility between different plug in parts. The most common is between the M'Boards and Plug in Video Cards which cause the unit not to work but a different brand with the same chip set Video Card will work on the same M'Board and that is one of the easier things to look out for.

    What you are trying to do here may not be possible and even if it is you'll need to try several PCI to SATA Cards till you find one that works the way that you require.

    Col

    +
    0 Votes
    jrpfeiffer

    I certainly appreciate the time you've taken to address my concern. I'm not so sure I like what you have to say . . . but!

    The 80G HD has so much stuff on it because of a lot of things (about 15G left). I also believe it spins at 5400 rpm. The entire system is terribly slow.

    I was hoping to use the SATA drive as the boot drive with a new operating system and the heavy-duty, commonly-used apps. and the 80G as data storage with all the stuff it currently has installed on it. As stuff was needed on the SATA, it could be retrieved from the 80G.

    I suppose I could dump all of the 80G stuff onto the SATA and do the new install on the 80G after a Format C:. I just don't have a lot of time for trial and error. There's already been a very strong suggestion to replace the computer with a new one. Some great deals are available ! I'm not sure where my pride will let me go with this.

    Anyway, thanx again. I sincerely appreciate your input.

    John

    +
    0 Votes
    HAL 9000 Moderator

    Make sure that it's loaded with XP and has the Vista Upgrade Offer available. Currently Vista lacks quite a lot of things that will make it usable as XP is but you would be better getting the option to upgrade when you want to and not be stuck as a Paying Beta Tester for M$ on Vista as everyone who is currently using Vista is now.

    Col

    +
    0 Votes
    videowhiterabbit

    Transcript of conversation between two techies:
    Think I found the forum that I was looking for... on SATA PCI interface issues...

    http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=101&threadID=211846&start=0

    "To be safe, physically pull the IDE cables for any HD's, then boot from the XP disk, give it the PCI card drivers, and I believe xp will find the drive. You should select create a new partition, to make sure that it's a primary and active partition. I have done this, and it was a pain, I actually disconnected all other possible drives including USB, except for the CD."

    Like you were saying... interesting...

    Like minds...

    Ah one point that I have overlooked...

    When installing the OS... there is an option to install RAID at a F6 prompt...

    I selected past this... might try a go at installing these... at the OS load...

    Yes I knew about the F6 RAID driver?s thing, but I don't think that will make a difference for the sata issue
    Once other thing you can try is to disable the IDE controller from within bios

    True, good point...

    Hopefully this other comment is not an issue..."the most likely reason that you are unable to Boot off the PCI to SATA Card is that it's not compatible as a Boot-able Unit with that Chip Set M'Board.

    You don't have the SATA Drivers on the Floppy but the PCI Card Drivers which will allow you to install the correct drivers for the PCI Card and that will then allow the SATA Drive to be recognized that's at least how it should work.

    The BIOS is only showing what is already set on the HDD's so you are not moving anything around there just removing the IDE Drives from the setup of the computer and you'll need the Primary Master IDE drive installed to allow the SATA Drive to boot the OS as that is the default drive. Even if you change the BIOS Boot Order the Primary IDE Drive once reinstalled will become the default Boot Drive that has files written to it to point to the Windows installation and allow the copy of Windows Installed to boot from. As you are not concerned with setting up a RAID Array what is so important in booting off the SATA Drive? You will notice very little difference in booting off the SATA Drive to an IDE Drive unless you have a very slow IDE Drive installed. As the system is working with the PCI to SATA Card in it booting off an IDE HDD is it really important to make it boot off the SATA Drive?

    As you are unable to load the PCI to SATA Drivers and allow the SATA Drive to be seen in initial loading your only option is to try a different Chip Set/Brand PCI Card and try again. "

    See the last question is what I am trying to over come... bottleneck of the slower EIDE drive with application issues...

    But good point in disabling the IDE controller... will see if that lets the SATA drives boot off the OS...
    Right this should take care of slowness when using apps

    Do you have the same bottleneck issues even after reinstalling windows and your apps fresh on an IDE HDD?

    ?

    Well I was only running off the one drive then... off the EIDE... and had USB external drives to store dat/ video files... but mainly installed apps right on the main internal EIDE...

    And yes there was some lag. Or slowness...

    But not the freezing I am seeing now...

    Read one blog where a chap from the UK had swappable drives he could plug and chug into his system... thatwas his work around...not sure if he had mainly sata drives on that build..

    Hot setup if you ask me...

    Instead of having multiple PC's to run your apps... just swap out the drive with the heavy resorce apps... and away you go...

    It has been an educational venture though...

    And one I needed to challenge myself... on the faster interfaces and trying to get the most out my current system...

    He was probably using ide drives

    The last thread in that discussion looks like the guy finally gave up trying to make it work and is considering a new system... possibly sata capable on the board...

    On the swappable setup

    Possibly...

    Which might be the easiest?

    Still though when you?re looking for the high transfer rate of 3 gigs per sec on the sata... EIDE does not come close...

    That is probably why the freeze up in my current setup...

    Between the PCI controller spitting out data faster than the on board controller can handle...

    There is not real way, which I know of to verify this is happening... just a logical assumption...