Questions

Very Slow Dell Dimension 3000 - 24hrs to install Win XP

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Very Slow Dell Dimension 3000 - 24hrs to install Win XP

jonatay325
I have a Dell Dimension 3000 that is very very slow. I figured I would reformat my HDD and reinstall Windows XP. However, the install takes well over 24 hours to complete. The Bios shows that 512MB RAM is installed. I tried a new 80GB Western Digital HDD in it and that still took over 24 hours to install windows from a freshly formatted drive. The processor cooling fan is running and has good airflow.

Any ideas? Please help.

Dell Dimension 3000
2.4GHz Celeron
512MB RAM
80 GB Maxtor HDD
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    retro77

    Go into the BIOS and load the defaults. Even with the CPU clocked down, 24 hours seems like a long time.

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    wesley.chin

    I had a machine that was slow also, though not quite as slow as yours I think. Like you, I ran through many options. the one that did it was so obvious....scandisk. after that, the machine was back in its blazing glory.

    The problematic machine was a 3 Ghz single core P4 running WinXP Pro SP2 with a gig of RAM.

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    jonatay325

    This problem occurs on 2 different HDDs and one of them was new. I did however perform the scandisk on the original while windows was loading on the new HDD and no errors or corrupt/bad sectors/blocks were found.

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    DaveMarriage

    But, I installed a new HD in my laptop and was trying to load XP. 3 hours later I kept getting .dll errors. I tried this over and over with mixed results, but I kept getting different .dll errors. I tried another XP disc and it worked with flying colors. The old disc didn't have a scratch on it either.

    Also, does your CD/DVD-ROM function normally?

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    jonatay325

    I don't think its the Win XP CD because it was very slow to begin with and that is why I decided to reformat the HDD and reinstall windows.

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    ashell.b

    Or that the CD would be a good place to start. If you know how to make a back up copy of your CD, do it, and then install from the back. (this might be hard for the everyday user to do)
    -If the CD takes a long time to copy, its the CD.
    -If you can't burn a backup, its the CD burner. (this is assuming your computer is up and running to make a copy)

    The way around this is to just borrow a friends media.

    If both of these steps go fine and the back up installs slowly, its time for a new HD, but really I would just consider a new PC since you said it has been slow. The computer might not met your needs anymore.

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    OldER Mycroft

    Try this link:

    http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/System-Info/SiSoftware-Sandra.shtml

    Download and install SANDRA. Let it run through ALL the benchmarking routines.

    Hopefully you'll be better aware as to what is causing this bottleneck in your system, because something is very slow and very wrong.


    <Edited for typo>

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    jonatay325

    So I have installed Sandra, but don't quite understand benchmarking. I realize that I am comparing to other processors or machines etc. Should I be using the test for diagnostics instead? Not sure if this helps, but i noticed that when running something as simple as device manager my cpu usage jumps to 100%. Could my processor be the culprit? I have swapped HDDs, HDD ribbon cable, and RAM

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    Absolutely

    They're likely to all be slightly different ("3 GHz" CPUs frequently measure 2.99, or occasionally 3.01, but NEVER 3.00 in my experience!), but if you find one that's 10x as slow as what was printed on the packaging, you know that's "broken".

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    Absolutely

    If you like it, why not see if the corresponding distribution's full version installs on your hard drive? If it does, who cares what the problem is with Windows? If not, what have you lost?

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    jonatay325

    I think its obvious that Windows isn't the problem. It's a hardware issue. It would only be a waste of time, would it not? More time is what I've got to lose.

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    OldER Mycroft

    You need to run some 'soak-testing' on your hardware and the easiest way to do that is to benchmark it.


    <Edited for typo>

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    Absolutely

    Determine the problem precisely and certainly. Good troubleshooting.

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    Absolutely

    From here, that looks like an unproven assumption. Also, I think that open source software will offer you more productive use of your time in the long run, and in my experience Linux is able to recognize many partition table problems that stump Windows install discs and MS fdisk floppies.

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    CookieOrc

    It could be that you hard drive is failing... That is really slow...

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    jonatay325

    as stated in the initial post, I have tried a different HDD. I have also since tried a different HDD ribbon cable and RAM.

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    jonatay325

    This has the Intel 865GV MB. I have a spare processor AMD Athlon XP 2400+. Will this processor work on this motherboard? Even for testing purposes to see if the processor is the problem?

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    mike

    Hi Everyone

    I am a professional computer consultant. As far as I can tell, this forum is frequented by amatuers. I hope my EXPERT experience will be appreciated.

    The problem I decided to register for, is as follows: The DEll Dimension 3000 series, has a typematic delay, which is absolutely maddening.

    The confirmed problem: The CMOS battery. I have never seen a problem like this in my career. I want to thank the original poster of this thread, for your endurance and persistance. If not for this forum, and your persistance, I may have given up. There were *NO* other signs pointing to the battery.

    TO the other detractors/posters, POSEING as experts: You are the reason sites like this generally don't work. kindly stop posting here, forever. you are NOT helping anyone.

    Later!
    Mike LaRonde
    a REAL Computer expert
    mike@jplot.com

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    OldER Mycroft

    Despite your Profeshinul "this forum is frequented by amatuers" status - you've just been awarded the latest edition of the TR Zombie Trophy, for having successfully resurrected a 14 MONTH-OLD thread! Well done for that inanely amateur achievement!!

    Unfortunately your proposition that you are the only one to have solved this particular problem would have been ever-so-slightly stronger, had your problem been the same as the one that this thread was about! It's NOT!

    Ah well, back to the land of dreams, eh! :^0

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    MB

    bcpgm

    Take out any non-essential parts, NIC, Modem card, Sound card, and so on unless they are built-in.

    If it is still slow, it's got to be the motherboard.

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    jonatay325

    Does this make sense? I pulled the battery off of the MB and I suddenly notice a significant difference in speed.

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    jonatay325

    It is the battery itself. With it in, it crawls. With it out, it runs normally.

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    jbafile

    By pulling the battery, you reset your BIOS by forcing your machine to recognize settings and ignoring stored settings.

    The problem had to have been a setting within your BIOS.

    My question to you so I understand is when you reinsert the battery does the computer go back to being extremely slow, or is it still running at normal speed?

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    jonatay325

    It slows back down when i reinsert the battery. So I just left it out for the time being until I can get to Wal-Mart and buy a new one.

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    Absolutely

    I have never heard of that being a solution to any problem.

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    OldER Mycroft

    It's a novel that I've never read.

    What happened to the definitive use of an alternative OS or the installation of diagnostic benchmarking software as previously advocated but seemingly -never- adopted...?

    If this is just a 'guessing-game' count me out! I've got better things to do with my time...!

    <Edited for typo>

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    jbafile

    Let the guessing begin...

    The strange solutions keep piling up.

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    jonatay325

    I didn't quite understand the benchmarking technique. I did use it, but I didn't know what to compare it to, so it didn't really tell me anything. I'm sure that if I understood exactly how to use it, it may have pointed me to the processor or motherboard. I already knew it had to be one of the two, because as I stated previously I had tried a different HDD, HDD ribbon cable, RAM, and all options removed. I did not have a LiveCD, so that is why I didn't go that route. I am a copier/fax tech and one of my colleagues reminded me of one of our obsolete faxes that had a backup battery. When the backup battery would fail, it would pull down the 5V supply. I simply pulled the battery and it was like flipping a light switch. The thing ran smoothly and flawlessly. I put the battery back on and it dragged again. I went and bought a new battery and things are back to normal. Thanks for all the suggestions.

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    OldER Mycroft

    I think you may find that your comparison of a computer to a fax machine, is as incredulous as your solving the 'problem' by removing a CMOS battery!

    You may as well have fed the computer a couple of Aspirins with a mug of warm milk!!!

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    jonatay325

    Sounds like you need to find a new job then if you don't think a CMOS battery can cause this type of problem. I hope you're not getting paid to be an IT Consultant, cuz I hate idiots that think they know it all. I came here looking for suggestions and I used what I could. I simply posted my resolution on here for those who assisted me in trouble shooting. I do not have a lot of IT experience, but I do have a lot of electronics experience and I understand how a defective battery can pull down a supply voltage. I won't bother explaining that to you though being that if your out of your league in IT, then you're definitely out of your league in Ohm's law.

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    JamesRL

    I think if you decide to understand the issue, instead of throwing mud, you might understand that a CMOS battery has but a couple of simple functions.

    It provides power to the clock so that when the machine is turned off it will retain its time settings.

    Similarly it powers the BIOS so that the settings for the HW do not dissapear when the AC is gone.

    Without the battery, the system sets up to defaults. So unless your BIOS was very badly setup, the battery wouldn't be the cause.

    Generally, most motherboards are designed to report a battery failure at the first sign of lowered output, so as to not cause clock issues.

    James

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    jonatay325

    Think about how it works. Again, an IT person that thinks he knows it all. You don't understand how electronics work at the board level. Stick to what you know best and quit trying to assume the rest. It'll get you in trouble. I will say it again....I simply was giving the resolution to my problem. You don't have to believe me, but since you don't I urge you to google bad cmos battery symptoms and I'm sure you will find a plethora of possible symptoms. So mine may have been few and far between, but it is what it is.

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    OldER Mycroft

    "I hope you're not getting paid to be an IT Consultant, cuz I hate idiots that think they know it all."

    ...coming from one such as you, that comment is a bit of a misnomer!

    "I came here looking for suggestions and I used what I could."

    Actually - you didn't! What you did was you came here and posted a problem.
    A problem that was then replied to with no less than SIX possible solutions [ Scandisk, CD, Sandra, Linux, Benchmarking, Harddrive. ]

    At each and every turn, as the various possible solutions were offered to you, you rebutted every one of them by stating categorically that YOU couldn't 'see' how that could possibly be the cause or would help.

    Therefore I put it to you, if anyone is professing to be an expert within the confines of this thread - it is you!

    "I simply posted my resolution on here for those who assisted me in trouble shooting."

    All we did was provide targets to be derided by your self-inflated ego.

    "I do not have a lot of IT experience, but I do have a lot of electronics experience and I understand how a defective battery can pull down a supply voltage"

    Your correct - you don't have ANY IT experience from what I've seen, but the defective battery can only affect a badly set-up CMOS BIOS as has been previously suggested to you.

    "I won't bother explaining that to you though being that if your out of your league* in IT, then you're definitely out of your league** in Ohm's law"

    * should be "out of your depth"
    ** should be "not in the same league"

    "Stick to what you know best and quit trying to assume the rest. It'll get you in trouble."

    Wise words - you should try them sometime.

    "I will say it again....I simply was giving the resolution to my problem."

    Here lies the nub of the whole affair.
    You gave the 'answer' to Your problem.

    I wouldn't be at all surprised if you print out the whole thread, mount it in a frame and hang it on your wall, for all your friends to see how incredibly clever you are in solving a problem that TechRepublic couldn't solve.

    The fact that the problem is nefarious and the solution only covers the fact that your BIOS was to blame, a BIOS that YOU must have set up badly, doesn't seem to have been considered by you.

    Still - it'll look good covering up the crack on the wall!

    The wall where you no doubt hang all your $5 internet electronics qualifications.

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    jonatay325

    ?Actually - you didn't! What you did was you came here and posted a problem.
    A problem that was then replied to with no less than SIX possible solutions [ Scandisk, CD, Sandra, Linux, Benchmarking, Harddrive. At each and every turn, as the various possible solutions were offered to you, you rebutted every one of them by stating categorically that YOU couldn't 'see' how that could possibly be the cause or would help.?
    If you would use a little logic, which apparently you don't have, you would see that the both the HDD and scandisk was not the problem, because I put in a second (known good) HDD and the problem was still there. This eliminates both the HDD and scandisk. Right? Ok, let me answer that for your. Yes, it does.
    As for the CD, I had 2 Windows XP CDs, win 98, and vista. The machine was dragging even when not reading the CD. Does that rule out the cd? Let me answer that for you again. Yes!
    Now we are down to Benchmarking, Sandra, and Linux. I did not have a linux live cd, so I did not try that as stated in an earlier post. Wake up and pay attention. I also stated that I didn't quite understand the whole point of Benchmarking which is one thing that Sandra can perform. See, this is me being honest with myself and everyone on here. If I don't know how to do something, I'll tell you and not pretend I do. Maybe Sandra would have told me that I had a bad CMOS battery, I don't really know. At this point, it doesn't really matter.

    You deny being a self proclaimed expert, but you are the one that said, "Hocus - Pocus, what a lot of TWADDLE !!! * I think you may find that your comparison of a computer to a fax machine, is as incredulous as your solving the 'problem' by removing a CMOS battery! You may as well have fed the computer a couple of Aspirins with a mug of warm milk!!!?
    Let me explain something that may be difficult for you to understand. MFPs (Mult-function copier) are one of the most complex pieces of equipment in the office. If a copier is to be networked, it basically has to have a PC mounted on the back of it. In order for it to fax a document, it has to have a modem. The machine uses lamps that don?t produce any heat, it uses an induction coil to create heat. It has a scanner (most full color now days) built in. Simply, the ability to be able to push a single sheet of 20lb paper thru a machine while going thru an obstacle course is a great feat in itself.
    *are you sure you?re not from France?
    ?Your correct** - you don't have ANY IT experience from what I've seen, but the defective battery can only affect a badly set-up CMOS BIOS as has been previously suggested to you.?
    **should be You?re - since you want to correct grammar
    When I stated that my problem was with the CMOS battery. You mentioned that a defective battery can only affect a badly set-up CMOS BIOS. I beg to differ. It's time to take off those blinders. As I also mentioned in an earlier post, try using google sometime and you will find a plethora of symptoms from a bad CMOS battery. Yes, a CMOS battery is simply a backup to hold your BIOS settings, but that does not mean that it can not affect other things.
    As far as your IT experience compared to mine. It is apparent that I have more experience than you do which doesn't say much, but atleast I know how to use a little logic when trouble shooting and not rely on software to do the job for me. The only thing that you may have more experience with is Sandra (benchmarking), but you haven't proven that here so I certainly won't assume the same.
    ?I wouldn't be at all surprised if you print out the whole thread, mount it in a frame and hang it on your wall, for all your friends to see how incredibly clever you are in solving a problem that TechRepublic couldn't solve.?
    Actually I don?t need to have it framed. I?m not as self-centered as you appear to be. I never said that TechRepublic couldn?t solve my problem. I came here for suggestions and I got suggestions. It got me thinking and I resolved my problem. You, however, didn?t have any part in that, but I won?t hold it against TechRepublic.
    ?The fact that the problem is nefarious and the solution only covers the fact that your BIOS was to blame, a BIOS that YOU must have set up badly, doesn't seem to have been considered by you.?
    Why don?t you consider this since you know it all. If in fact it were my BIOS that I improperly set up, then simply removing the battery and putting it back on would have resolved my problem. Right? Yes! However, since I put the same battery back on and my problem came back, what does that tell you? Keep in mind that I didn?t change any BIOS settings. I just put the same battery back on and the problem came back. I went out and bought a new battery, put it in, and everything works normally. Explain that one!
    The wall where you no doubt hang all your $5 internet electronics qualifications.
    Well, I guess that explains how you got your IT qualifications. I didn?t even know you could do such a thing. Just so you know, I have proven myself with my electronics skills with the companies I work for. I?m the youngest person in my field at my company as well as my previous company and my skills fine tuned enough that I was asked to train all of my coworkers. I have been doing so for 1 ? years and have earned greater respect for it. That?s something to be proud of. Don?t confuse that with being chauvinistic.

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    JamesRL

    You seem to think anyone who knows more than you is a know it all. Far from it. Mycroft and many others here have a great deal of experience and are willing to share with anyone. Trust me, he may be crusty at times, but I've seen him go the extra mile to help someone.

    I know Mycroft is older than me, and I've been messing with computers since before the first IBM PC. Your 18 months in electronics pales in comparison.

    Troubleshooting, as you well know from electronics, can be a process of systematic elimination of possible causes. Some of the steps you were shown were more "likely" to be the cause than the CMOS battery. Thats from years of experience. Simply put hard drives are more often the cause of problems than batteries (both will eventually die). Hard drives have moving parts.

    You are so proud you found the solution, and think that all the other steps were bogus. Good for you. If you were open, you might have learned more about computers than when you started.

    James

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    jonatay325

    <html>
    You don't seem to want to learn
    You seem to think anyone who knows more than you is a know it all. Far from it. Mycroft and many others here have a great deal of experience and are willing to share with anyone. Trust me, he may be crusty at times, but I've seen him go the extra mile to help someone.
    <br>
    I only said that about Mycroft. This all started because of Mycroft?s snooty comment about the CMOS battery being the problem. He initially said it was bogus. He was flat out wrong and isn?t man enough to admit when he is wrong.
    <br>
    I know Mycroft is older than me, and I've been messing with computers since before the first IBM PC. Your 18 months in electronics pales in comparison.
    <br>I didn?t say my electronics experience has been 18 months, that was my training experience. I?m sure you still have more computer experience than me and there definitely is something to be said about experience. I don?t discount that. I only discounted Mycroft?s comments. He has a poor attitude when he?s wrong.
    <br>
    Troubleshooting, as you well know from electronics, can be a process of systematic elimination of possible causes. Some of the steps you were shown were more "likely" to be the cause than the CMOS battery. Thats from years of experience. Simply put hard drives are more often the cause of problems than batteries (both will eventually die). Hard drives have moving parts.
    <br> I do agree with this 100%. It makes sense to start with the most common thing that fails. That is fine. I never bashed anyone for their ideas or suggestions. I simply stated reasons why I know for sure it isn?t one thing or another. Don?t you agree that if I replaced the HDD with a known working one that that eliminates the HDD itself? Process of elimination right? I didn?t expect someone to give an exact resolution for my problem. I appreciate everyone who helped. I work in tech support myself. I?m not right on the first time, but with a little trouble shooting I can get you there.
    <br>
    You are so proud you found the solution, and think that all the other steps were bogus. Good for you. If you were open, you might have learned more about computers than when you started.
    <br> I am proud that I found the resolution. It means the headache is finally over with. Do I think I figured it out all on my own? No, I don?t. Did anyone ever suggest pulling the CMOS battery? No, they didn?t. Did the suggestions possibly point me indirectly to the CMOS battery? Sure, I was pointed toward the processor/MB. Please show me anywhere in this forum that I stated anything was bogus without giving a reason as to why it was bogus. You won?t find one. I gave a reason every time as to why I have already ruled one thing or another out. Or simply (benchmarking for instance) where I didn?t quite understand how to do something.
    <br>
    Jon
    </html>

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    cmessina

    Just replying to defend you from some of the trolls. I've got a Dimension 3000 in my shop in which the hard drive crashed and XP needed to be installed on a new drive.

    Short version - the install was going insanely slow so I googled and found this thread. Shut off the machine, pulled the battery, and tried the install again with a massive speed increase.

    For whatever reason, the battery was the problem, and removing it solved the problem.

    -chris

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    kenaniah7037

    Fixing up a friend's Dell Dimension 1100....he bought the parts (HD, RAM, peripherals...), and I've been putting them together. Now, I've spent TWO DAYS!! (granted, between doing family outings, etc..)trying to install XP pro on the HD.....tried two different cd's, tried a HD I had spare, changed IDE cables, changed RAM, reset every BIOS setting that applied, (and was saying nasty things about the old Phoenix BIOs, I might add..), then while waiting(again) for setup to copy files, I started researching this boggle. When I read the above posts about the battery, I shook my head and thought it was bunk. But an hour or so later it had still only copied 32%, so I gave in and pulled the battery. This was 20 minutes ago, and as I sit here now,it appears to be about 80% through "preparing installation" on the blue xp setup page...it finished copying files in 93 seconds (yes, I timed it!). And now I just hopped over and entered the product key, and it's flying through "installing network"...now I have to do some reading and figure out exactly why that worked!

    Thanks for the post.

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    thejones

    I had this same issue with a Dell Dimension 4600. I replaced everything, hard drive, ram, cpu, fan, power supply, IDE cables. I removed all cards and cables not necessary for installation of Windows XP. Installation was still taking hours and hours, after overnight install was still stuck on 39% of setup copying files. I tried a new Windows XP disc, nothing different. I found this post and thought this will never work. I pulled the CMOS Battery for 30 seconds. Put everything back in it that was originally in it before I started replacing things, and tried installation again and it ran with lightning speed. I couldn't believe that was all that it took to make this work. You are genius! Thanks so much for you help, I was ready to scrap this one and say the MB was bad. Incredible! Thanks!

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    jdclyde

    I have seen on cheap crap MB's that the system will pause every now and then, and the clock will actually lose time over the day.

    Change the battery and it is good, for another 6 months.

    I have never seen this behavior with a quality MB. I would wonder about the board Dell used in that system. Being a 2.4 celeron, it is a safe bet it was a system bought for the price not the quality.

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    jonatay325

    This is a friends machine. His kids are home schooled and it was bought just for them to do school work. The MB probably isn't great quality.

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    retro77

    Go into the BIOS and load the defaults. Even with the CPU clocked down, 24 hours seems like a long time.

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    wesley.chin

    I had a machine that was slow also, though not quite as slow as yours I think. Like you, I ran through many options. the one that did it was so obvious....scandisk. after that, the machine was back in its blazing glory.

    The problematic machine was a 3 Ghz single core P4 running WinXP Pro SP2 with a gig of RAM.

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    jonatay325

    This problem occurs on 2 different HDDs and one of them was new. I did however perform the scandisk on the original while windows was loading on the new HDD and no errors or corrupt/bad sectors/blocks were found.

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    DaveMarriage

    But, I installed a new HD in my laptop and was trying to load XP. 3 hours later I kept getting .dll errors. I tried this over and over with mixed results, but I kept getting different .dll errors. I tried another XP disc and it worked with flying colors. The old disc didn't have a scratch on it either.

    Also, does your CD/DVD-ROM function normally?

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    jonatay325

    I don't think its the Win XP CD because it was very slow to begin with and that is why I decided to reformat the HDD and reinstall windows.

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    ashell.b

    Or that the CD would be a good place to start. If you know how to make a back up copy of your CD, do it, and then install from the back. (this might be hard for the everyday user to do)
    -If the CD takes a long time to copy, its the CD.
    -If you can't burn a backup, its the CD burner. (this is assuming your computer is up and running to make a copy)

    The way around this is to just borrow a friends media.

    If both of these steps go fine and the back up installs slowly, its time for a new HD, but really I would just consider a new PC since you said it has been slow. The computer might not met your needs anymore.

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    OldER Mycroft

    Try this link:

    http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/System-Info/SiSoftware-Sandra.shtml

    Download and install SANDRA. Let it run through ALL the benchmarking routines.

    Hopefully you'll be better aware as to what is causing this bottleneck in your system, because something is very slow and very wrong.


    <Edited for typo>

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    jonatay325

    So I have installed Sandra, but don't quite understand benchmarking. I realize that I am comparing to other processors or machines etc. Should I be using the test for diagnostics instead? Not sure if this helps, but i noticed that when running something as simple as device manager my cpu usage jumps to 100%. Could my processor be the culprit? I have swapped HDDs, HDD ribbon cable, and RAM

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    Absolutely

    They're likely to all be slightly different ("3 GHz" CPUs frequently measure 2.99, or occasionally 3.01, but NEVER 3.00 in my experience!), but if you find one that's 10x as slow as what was printed on the packaging, you know that's "broken".

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    Absolutely

    If you like it, why not see if the corresponding distribution's full version installs on your hard drive? If it does, who cares what the problem is with Windows? If not, what have you lost?

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    jonatay325

    I think its obvious that Windows isn't the problem. It's a hardware issue. It would only be a waste of time, would it not? More time is what I've got to lose.

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    OldER Mycroft

    You need to run some 'soak-testing' on your hardware and the easiest way to do that is to benchmark it.


    <Edited for typo>

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    Absolutely

    Determine the problem precisely and certainly. Good troubleshooting.

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    Absolutely

    From here, that looks like an unproven assumption. Also, I think that open source software will offer you more productive use of your time in the long run, and in my experience Linux is able to recognize many partition table problems that stump Windows install discs and MS fdisk floppies.

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    CookieOrc

    It could be that you hard drive is failing... That is really slow...

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    jonatay325

    as stated in the initial post, I have tried a different HDD. I have also since tried a different HDD ribbon cable and RAM.

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    jonatay325

    This has the Intel 865GV MB. I have a spare processor AMD Athlon XP 2400+. Will this processor work on this motherboard? Even for testing purposes to see if the processor is the problem?

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    mike

    Hi Everyone

    I am a professional computer consultant. As far as I can tell, this forum is frequented by amatuers. I hope my EXPERT experience will be appreciated.

    The problem I decided to register for, is as follows: The DEll Dimension 3000 series, has a typematic delay, which is absolutely maddening.

    The confirmed problem: The CMOS battery. I have never seen a problem like this in my career. I want to thank the original poster of this thread, for your endurance and persistance. If not for this forum, and your persistance, I may have given up. There were *NO* other signs pointing to the battery.

    TO the other detractors/posters, POSEING as experts: You are the reason sites like this generally don't work. kindly stop posting here, forever. you are NOT helping anyone.

    Later!
    Mike LaRonde
    a REAL Computer expert
    mike@jplot.com

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    OldER Mycroft

    Despite your Profeshinul "this forum is frequented by amatuers" status - you've just been awarded the latest edition of the TR Zombie Trophy, for having successfully resurrected a 14 MONTH-OLD thread! Well done for that inanely amateur achievement!!

    Unfortunately your proposition that you are the only one to have solved this particular problem would have been ever-so-slightly stronger, had your problem been the same as the one that this thread was about! It's NOT!

    Ah well, back to the land of dreams, eh! :^0

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    MB

    bcpgm

    Take out any non-essential parts, NIC, Modem card, Sound card, and so on unless they are built-in.

    If it is still slow, it's got to be the motherboard.

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    jonatay325

    Does this make sense? I pulled the battery off of the MB and I suddenly notice a significant difference in speed.

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    jonatay325

    It is the battery itself. With it in, it crawls. With it out, it runs normally.

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    jbafile

    By pulling the battery, you reset your BIOS by forcing your machine to recognize settings and ignoring stored settings.

    The problem had to have been a setting within your BIOS.

    My question to you so I understand is when you reinsert the battery does the computer go back to being extremely slow, or is it still running at normal speed?

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    jonatay325

    It slows back down when i reinsert the battery. So I just left it out for the time being until I can get to Wal-Mart and buy a new one.

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    Absolutely

    I have never heard of that being a solution to any problem.

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    OldER Mycroft

    It's a novel that I've never read.

    What happened to the definitive use of an alternative OS or the installation of diagnostic benchmarking software as previously advocated but seemingly -never- adopted...?

    If this is just a 'guessing-game' count me out! I've got better things to do with my time...!

    <Edited for typo>

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    jbafile

    Let the guessing begin...

    The strange solutions keep piling up.

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    jonatay325

    I didn't quite understand the benchmarking technique. I did use it, but I didn't know what to compare it to, so it didn't really tell me anything. I'm sure that if I understood exactly how to use it, it may have pointed me to the processor or motherboard. I already knew it had to be one of the two, because as I stated previously I had tried a different HDD, HDD ribbon cable, RAM, and all options removed. I did not have a LiveCD, so that is why I didn't go that route. I am a copier/fax tech and one of my colleagues reminded me of one of our obsolete faxes that had a backup battery. When the backup battery would fail, it would pull down the 5V supply. I simply pulled the battery and it was like flipping a light switch. The thing ran smoothly and flawlessly. I put the battery back on and it dragged again. I went and bought a new battery and things are back to normal. Thanks for all the suggestions.

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    OldER Mycroft

    I think you may find that your comparison of a computer to a fax machine, is as incredulous as your solving the 'problem' by removing a CMOS battery!

    You may as well have fed the computer a couple of Aspirins with a mug of warm milk!!!

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    jonatay325

    Sounds like you need to find a new job then if you don't think a CMOS battery can cause this type of problem. I hope you're not getting paid to be an IT Consultant, cuz I hate idiots that think they know it all. I came here looking for suggestions and I used what I could. I simply posted my resolution on here for those who assisted me in trouble shooting. I do not have a lot of IT experience, but I do have a lot of electronics experience and I understand how a defective battery can pull down a supply voltage. I won't bother explaining that to you though being that if your out of your league in IT, then you're definitely out of your league in Ohm's law.

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    JamesRL

    I think if you decide to understand the issue, instead of throwing mud, you might understand that a CMOS battery has but a couple of simple functions.

    It provides power to the clock so that when the machine is turned off it will retain its time settings.

    Similarly it powers the BIOS so that the settings for the HW do not dissapear when the AC is gone.

    Without the battery, the system sets up to defaults. So unless your BIOS was very badly setup, the battery wouldn't be the cause.

    Generally, most motherboards are designed to report a battery failure at the first sign of lowered output, so as to not cause clock issues.

    James

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    jonatay325

    Think about how it works. Again, an IT person that thinks he knows it all. You don't understand how electronics work at the board level. Stick to what you know best and quit trying to assume the rest. It'll get you in trouble. I will say it again....I simply was giving the resolution to my problem. You don't have to believe me, but since you don't I urge you to google bad cmos battery symptoms and I'm sure you will find a plethora of possible symptoms. So mine may have been few and far between, but it is what it is.

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    OldER Mycroft

    "I hope you're not getting paid to be an IT Consultant, cuz I hate idiots that think they know it all."

    ...coming from one such as you, that comment is a bit of a misnomer!

    "I came here looking for suggestions and I used what I could."

    Actually - you didn't! What you did was you came here and posted a problem.
    A problem that was then replied to with no less than SIX possible solutions [ Scandisk, CD, Sandra, Linux, Benchmarking, Harddrive. ]

    At each and every turn, as the various possible solutions were offered to you, you rebutted every one of them by stating categorically that YOU couldn't 'see' how that could possibly be the cause or would help.

    Therefore I put it to you, if anyone is professing to be an expert within the confines of this thread - it is you!

    "I simply posted my resolution on here for those who assisted me in trouble shooting."

    All we did was provide targets to be derided by your self-inflated ego.

    "I do not have a lot of IT experience, but I do have a lot of electronics experience and I understand how a defective battery can pull down a supply voltage"

    Your correct - you don't have ANY IT experience from what I've seen, but the defective battery can only affect a badly set-up CMOS BIOS as has been previously suggested to you.

    "I won't bother explaining that to you though being that if your out of your league* in IT, then you're definitely out of your league** in Ohm's law"

    * should be "out of your depth"
    ** should be "not in the same league"

    "Stick to what you know best and quit trying to assume the rest. It'll get you in trouble."

    Wise words - you should try them sometime.

    "I will say it again....I simply was giving the resolution to my problem."

    Here lies the nub of the whole affair.
    You gave the 'answer' to Your problem.

    I wouldn't be at all surprised if you print out the whole thread, mount it in a frame and hang it on your wall, for all your friends to see how incredibly clever you are in solving a problem that TechRepublic couldn't solve.

    The fact that the problem is nefarious and the solution only covers the fact that your BIOS was to blame, a BIOS that YOU must have set up badly, doesn't seem to have been considered by you.

    Still - it'll look good covering up the crack on the wall!

    The wall where you no doubt hang all your $5 internet electronics qualifications.

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    jonatay325

    ?Actually - you didn't! What you did was you came here and posted a problem.
    A problem that was then replied to with no less than SIX possible solutions [ Scandisk, CD, Sandra, Linux, Benchmarking, Harddrive. At each and every turn, as the various possible solutions were offered to you, you rebutted every one of them by stating categorically that YOU couldn't 'see' how that could possibly be the cause or would help.?
    If you would use a little logic, which apparently you don't have, you would see that the both the HDD and scandisk was not the problem, because I put in a second (known good) HDD and the problem was still there. This eliminates both the HDD and scandisk. Right? Ok, let me answer that for your. Yes, it does.
    As for the CD, I had 2 Windows XP CDs, win 98, and vista. The machine was dragging even when not reading the CD. Does that rule out the cd? Let me answer that for you again. Yes!
    Now we are down to Benchmarking, Sandra, and Linux. I did not have a linux live cd, so I did not try that as stated in an earlier post. Wake up and pay attention. I also stated that I didn't quite understand the whole point of Benchmarking which is one thing that Sandra can perform. See, this is me being honest with myself and everyone on here. If I don't know how to do something, I'll tell you and not pretend I do. Maybe Sandra would have told me that I had a bad CMOS battery, I don't really know. At this point, it doesn't really matter.

    You deny being a self proclaimed expert, but you are the one that said, "Hocus - Pocus, what a lot of TWADDLE !!! * I think you may find that your comparison of a computer to a fax machine, is as incredulous as your solving the 'problem' by removing a CMOS battery! You may as well have fed the computer a couple of Aspirins with a mug of warm milk!!!?
    Let me explain something that may be difficult for you to understand. MFPs (Mult-function copier) are one of the most complex pieces of equipment in the office. If a copier is to be networked, it basically has to have a PC mounted on the back of it. In order for it to fax a document, it has to have a modem. The machine uses lamps that don?t produce any heat, it uses an induction coil to create heat. It has a scanner (most full color now days) built in. Simply, the ability to be able to push a single sheet of 20lb paper thru a machine while going thru an obstacle course is a great feat in itself.
    *are you sure you?re not from France?
    ?Your correct** - you don't have ANY IT experience from what I've seen, but the defective battery can only affect a badly set-up CMOS BIOS as has been previously suggested to you.?
    **should be You?re - since you want to correct grammar
    When I stated that my problem was with the CMOS battery. You mentioned that a defective battery can only affect a badly set-up CMOS BIOS. I beg to differ. It's time to take off those blinders. As I also mentioned in an earlier post, try using google sometime and you will find a plethora of symptoms from a bad CMOS battery. Yes, a CMOS battery is simply a backup to hold your BIOS settings, but that does not mean that it can not affect other things.
    As far as your IT experience compared to mine. It is apparent that I have more experience than you do which doesn't say much, but atleast I know how to use a little logic when trouble shooting and not rely on software to do the job for me. The only thing that you may have more experience with is Sandra (benchmarking), but you haven't proven that here so I certainly won't assume the same.
    ?I wouldn't be at all surprised if you print out the whole thread, mount it in a frame and hang it on your wall, for all your friends to see how incredibly clever you are in solving a problem that TechRepublic couldn't solve.?
    Actually I don?t need to have it framed. I?m not as self-centered as you appear to be. I never said that TechRepublic couldn?t solve my problem. I came here for suggestions and I got suggestions. It got me thinking and I resolved my problem. You, however, didn?t have any part in that, but I won?t hold it against TechRepublic.
    ?The fact that the problem is nefarious and the solution only covers the fact that your BIOS was to blame, a BIOS that YOU must have set up badly, doesn't seem to have been considered by you.?
    Why don?t you consider this since you know it all. If in fact it were my BIOS that I improperly set up, then simply removing the battery and putting it back on would have resolved my problem. Right? Yes! However, since I put the same battery back on and my problem came back, what does that tell you? Keep in mind that I didn?t change any BIOS settings. I just put the same battery back on and the problem came back. I went out and bought a new battery, put it in, and everything works normally. Explain that one!
    The wall where you no doubt hang all your $5 internet electronics qualifications.
    Well, I guess that explains how you got your IT qualifications. I didn?t even know you could do such a thing. Just so you know, I have proven myself with my electronics skills with the companies I work for. I?m the youngest person in my field at my company as well as my previous company and my skills fine tuned enough that I was asked to train all of my coworkers. I have been doing so for 1 ? years and have earned greater respect for it. That?s something to be proud of. Don?t confuse that with being chauvinistic.

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    JamesRL

    You seem to think anyone who knows more than you is a know it all. Far from it. Mycroft and many others here have a great deal of experience and are willing to share with anyone. Trust me, he may be crusty at times, but I've seen him go the extra mile to help someone.

    I know Mycroft is older than me, and I've been messing with computers since before the first IBM PC. Your 18 months in electronics pales in comparison.

    Troubleshooting, as you well know from electronics, can be a process of systematic elimination of possible causes. Some of the steps you were shown were more "likely" to be the cause than the CMOS battery. Thats from years of experience. Simply put hard drives are more often the cause of problems than batteries (both will eventually die). Hard drives have moving parts.

    You are so proud you found the solution, and think that all the other steps were bogus. Good for you. If you were open, you might have learned more about computers than when you started.

    James

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    jonatay325

    <html>
    You don't seem to want to learn
    You seem to think anyone who knows more than you is a know it all. Far from it. Mycroft and many others here have a great deal of experience and are willing to share with anyone. Trust me, he may be crusty at times, but I've seen him go the extra mile to help someone.
    <br>
    I only said that about Mycroft. This all started because of Mycroft?s snooty comment about the CMOS battery being the problem. He initially said it was bogus. He was flat out wrong and isn?t man enough to admit when he is wrong.
    <br>
    I know Mycroft is older than me, and I've been messing with computers since before the first IBM PC. Your 18 months in electronics pales in comparison.
    <br>I didn?t say my electronics experience has been 18 months, that was my training experience. I?m sure you still have more computer experience than me and there definitely is something to be said about experience. I don?t discount that. I only discounted Mycroft?s comments. He has a poor attitude when he?s wrong.
    <br>
    Troubleshooting, as you well know from electronics, can be a process of systematic elimination of possible causes. Some of the steps you were shown were more "likely" to be the cause than the CMOS battery. Thats from years of experience. Simply put hard drives are more often the cause of problems than batteries (both will eventually die). Hard drives have moving parts.
    <br> I do agree with this 100%. It makes sense to start with the most common thing that fails. That is fine. I never bashed anyone for their ideas or suggestions. I simply stated reasons why I know for sure it isn?t one thing or another. Don?t you agree that if I replaced the HDD with a known working one that that eliminates the HDD itself? Process of elimination right? I didn?t expect someone to give an exact resolution for my problem. I appreciate everyone who helped. I work in tech support myself. I?m not right on the first time, but with a little trouble shooting I can get you there.
    <br>
    You are so proud you found the solution, and think that all the other steps were bogus. Good for you. If you were open, you might have learned more about computers than when you started.
    <br> I am proud that I found the resolution. It means the headache is finally over with. Do I think I figured it out all on my own? No, I don?t. Did anyone ever suggest pulling the CMOS battery? No, they didn?t. Did the suggestions possibly point me indirectly to the CMOS battery? Sure, I was pointed toward the processor/MB. Please show me anywhere in this forum that I stated anything was bogus without giving a reason as to why it was bogus. You won?t find one. I gave a reason every time as to why I have already ruled one thing or another out. Or simply (benchmarking for instance) where I didn?t quite understand how to do something.
    <br>
    Jon
    </html>

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    cmessina

    Just replying to defend you from some of the trolls. I've got a Dimension 3000 in my shop in which the hard drive crashed and XP needed to be installed on a new drive.

    Short version - the install was going insanely slow so I googled and found this thread. Shut off the machine, pulled the battery, and tried the install again with a massive speed increase.

    For whatever reason, the battery was the problem, and removing it solved the problem.

    -chris

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    kenaniah7037

    Fixing up a friend's Dell Dimension 1100....he bought the parts (HD, RAM, peripherals...), and I've been putting them together. Now, I've spent TWO DAYS!! (granted, between doing family outings, etc..)trying to install XP pro on the HD.....tried two different cd's, tried a HD I had spare, changed IDE cables, changed RAM, reset every BIOS setting that applied, (and was saying nasty things about the old Phoenix BIOs, I might add..), then while waiting(again) for setup to copy files, I started researching this boggle. When I read the above posts about the battery, I shook my head and thought it was bunk. But an hour or so later it had still only copied 32%, so I gave in and pulled the battery. This was 20 minutes ago, and as I sit here now,it appears to be about 80% through "preparing installation" on the blue xp setup page...it finished copying files in 93 seconds (yes, I timed it!). And now I just hopped over and entered the product key, and it's flying through "installing network"...now I have to do some reading and figure out exactly why that worked!

    Thanks for the post.

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    thejones

    I had this same issue with a Dell Dimension 4600. I replaced everything, hard drive, ram, cpu, fan, power supply, IDE cables. I removed all cards and cables not necessary for installation of Windows XP. Installation was still taking hours and hours, after overnight install was still stuck on 39% of setup copying files. I tried a new Windows XP disc, nothing different. I found this post and thought this will never work. I pulled the CMOS Battery for 30 seconds. Put everything back in it that was originally in it before I started replacing things, and tried installation again and it ran with lightning speed. I couldn't believe that was all that it took to make this work. You are genius! Thanks so much for you help, I was ready to scrap this one and say the MB was bad. Incredible! Thanks!

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    jdclyde

    I have seen on cheap crap MB's that the system will pause every now and then, and the clock will actually lose time over the day.

    Change the battery and it is good, for another 6 months.

    I have never seen this behavior with a quality MB. I would wonder about the board Dell used in that system. Being a 2.4 celeron, it is a safe bet it was a system bought for the price not the quality.

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    jonatay325

    This is a friends machine. His kids are home schooled and it was bought just for them to do school work. The MB probably isn't great quality.