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Vista Ultimate

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Vista Ultimate

ebquins
I purchased a Visata Ultimate DVD from a reputable computer Chain store and scince then I have recieved a notification from microsoft saying that my Vista Ultimate DVD is invalid due to hardware changes, the only thing I have changed is the hard drive.I have three days to purchase a new ser # or they will stop the log on of my copy of Vista Ultimate!!!.Could someone please advise me what I Should do.
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    1bn0

    If you have a legally aquired copy of Vista you can re-activate it after a hardware change. The FAQ says you can re-activate 5 time over the internet. Afte that you have to do it by phone.

    A HDD does require a re-qctivation.


    Vista Activation FAQ

    http://www.microsoft.com/uk/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/activationfaq.mspx

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    Roy Humphreys

    1bn0, I'm not totally sure that this is the correct answer. My understanding of the matter, and it is also noted in the faq you linked to, is that an OEM version will require re-activation if the HDD AND Ram are changed at the same time. So in effect, changing just the HDD shouldn't have caused Vista to prompt to reactivate.

    That is of course unless a full re-install wasn't performed first but even then, validation should have checked the activation status and found all other components present and correct.

    That said, I suppose it's quite possible (probable) that this is what has triggered the re-activation status in Vista.

    Oh well, better stop rambling now and get on with some work.

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    Dennis.Keeling

    thank god I'm buying an IMac next week

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    Northlite

    I would imagine that if Macs gain the popularity and customization of regular PC's Apple may eventually find the need to preform some sort of activation to verify that the OS on their systems is a purchased one.

    For now though a boot legged copy of a Mac OS doesn't seem as popular to want over a Microsoft one.

    I do find the activation quite silly as the real thieves are not going to call in for activation they are just going to crack code and go on, it seems it mainly catches innocent people who didn't know they purchased a bad copy of Windows.

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    Fil0403

    Maybe the poor old innocent people who didn't know they purchased a bad copy of Windows should just be more careful about what they buy; if it's not their fault it's much less Microsoft's fault which is the only one that loses with this; either way, it doesn't catch the innocent people who didn't know they purchased a bad copy of Windows because, if that happens, you just have to send a proof of purchase to Microsoft and you'll be able to buy a genuine copy of Vista for a big discount and the bad guys who sold them the bad copies of Vista will get caught if you denounce them.

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    Paul R.A.

    most people bought from sound establshments that used volume licenses in the states- then MS changed the rules. Some had the CDs some and some lost the Certs of Auth.

    Others did buy unwittingly. But as for Microsoft- the USA market is paying for the Developing countries- when China can purchase a legal Windows/Office combo for about 3 bucks US - and Vista is going for about half the cost in Japan- who is paying for the inroads in other markets? Us.

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    FXEF

    Yeah, I thank my lucky stars that XP quit booting. Installed Ubuntu and never looked back.

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    Fil0403

    Yeah, you have a lot to thank them. I bet you never look back, where you look at is to the manual looking for instructions on how to uninstall a program or calibrate your microphone for Skype and on the Internet looking for compatible software and good drivers for your hardware, LOL.

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    Fil0403

    So what are you going to do with all the software and hardware that will be rendered useless after that ingenious decision? Might as well give to someone who knows how to work with computers. :)

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    Gromit

    I was building a new PC back in February right after Vista came out. I bought a full version of Vista Ultimate, not the OEM version.

    I changed a DVD reader/writer and Vista deactivated itself. I tried to reactivate online, but got a message to call Microsoft instead. Got an Indian guy on the phone who questioned me like I was a criminal before finally agreeing to reactivate. He told me that if I changed any hardware, this would happen again - no apologies. To this guy, I was a potential software pirate and that's the way I was treated.

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    AstroCreep

    Happens all the time to me.
    At work I need to format systems every now and again, and there are a few systems with Windows XP (OEM - hp boxes) that I need to format on a pretty regular basis because they are used as test boxes and/or for devel work.
    Any time I activate these systems I have to call (and it's always routed through India) and most of the time I get the same treatment. One time I was asked not only for the 'installation ID' but also for the product key <i>and</i> the desktop's serial number! I told the lady "Nope, and I want to talk to your supervisor" at which point she goes "Okay, I have your new installation ID ready".

    As far as Vista, I'm not ready to kiss that pig yet, but I've read stories where people have had to re-activate after upgrading optical drives and even after a guy was overclocking his PC.

    Message to Microsoft - EASE UP ALREADY! I understand piracy is a problem, but damn, this is a bit extreme.

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    The Cars Forever

    I rebuild systems quite regularly at work. I have had at least 15 with Vista that I wipe the OEM build (clean install) and during the Vista Activation I am prompted to call. All I have had to state is:

    1) This is a rebuild of an OEM system.
    2) This is the only computer this copy of Vista is loaded on.

    After this I may have to confirm one or more pieces of info, but it is all pretty quick. I have never taken more than 5 minutes total from the call being answered to Vista being re-activated.

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    DataPoint

    Since building a new Vista designated office PC and installing Vista Ultimate OEM, I've had to phone Microsoft's 800 reactivation # 3 times in a span of just 2 months for just 1 PC! Vista has never offered me the opportunity to reactivate online - Quite Annoying! I'm not completely sure of what triggered these 3 deactivation events but since installing the system I've independently added memory, added a backup drive outside of a Raid 5 array, re-installed MS Office and suffered a degraded Raid Array once that repaired itself. I've never had to reinstall or repair the OS, it sits right where it was originally installed in its own dedicated partition. Each time a deactivation event is triggered I have to call Microsoft's Call Center (in India?) and answer rather mundane questions in order to reactivate. Obtaining a 25 digit key, provided verbally with a dialect that is sometimes difficult to understand (my ears must be getting old!), is a PITA!

    Microsoft sure seems to have impleminted a hair trigger deactivation scenario (system fingerprint) in Vista. I don't think Microsoft should be concerned with anything other than the motherboard that the OS boots from. It should be of no concern to MS if I add disks, memory or any other peripherals as long as they are hosted from the same mobo.

    Futhermore, this whole process (if really necessary) should be handled without resorting to clunky call center intervention. As it is, the call center folks don't even establish the identity of the caller so what's the point? Must be an attempt at intimidating a would be OS Pirate because they are required to speak to a live person I guess. A much more sophisticated reactivation process should be implimented online at various levels based on the type of triggering event. If my bank and brokerage firm can authenticate me online and handle transactions involving assets thousands of times more valuable than a Vista license I'm sure Microsoft can figure out how to handle re-activations in a less annoying and more streamlined manner. I would think better security could be better enforced using 100% online re-activations versus callers using cordless phones and cell phones to obtain reactivation keys. Needless to say, this has been an Ultimate Dissapointment in how Microsoft has impliminted this heavy handed and somewhat paranoid house-to-house, office-to-office search for potential pirated software. I think MS needs to ratchet down their OS reactivation triggering mechanism a bit and streamline the whole process but hey, that's just my opinion.

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    Freebird54

    The only possible justifications for this 'system' implemented by MS would be if:

    1. It worked correctly. I personally ended up having to use a pirated version for a month because they would not acknowledge that what I was using was legitimate. (problem since solved by dropping MS)

    2. It did not shut down the system in such a draconian manner. There is *NEVER* an excuse for this kind of behaviour to your customers - even if being 'pre-informed' of this possibility apparently makes it legal. (just how pre-informed is the average user? Before purchase? I think not....

    3. It stopped pirates (or even slowed them down). It does not appear to be making any difference to the pirates - I know of at least 5 places where I could get XP or Vista free of encumbrances. I actually GOT an XP that way (as mentioned) because my legit one was not activated....

    As none of these criteria have been met effectively, all it represents is a major nuisance to legitimate customers, as well as an expense that I am sure is passed along to all unfortunate enough to have rented the product!

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    Fil0403

    Bashing = 100%.

    Solutions proposed = 0%.


    Now this a typical Microsoft bashing comment, LOL.

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    Fil0403

    Message to you - THEY HAVE EASED UP ALREADY!! They were going to only let people reactivate Vista a couple of times and they changed it so people can *infinitely* move and reactivate Vista as long as they uninstall it from the previous machine. If you understand piracy is a problem (that's something, most people don't know that) but think this is a bit extreme put yourself in their position and come up with another solution instead of keep bashing Microsoft for every reason like everyone else.

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    Freebird54

    - but only because even THEY recognized that their plan was beyond the amount that even the unthinking and unknowing would accept. After all, people are PAYING to use this stuff!

    Piracy is a problem they have mainly brought upon themselves, so they should 'suck it up' and pay the price for that themselves - not expect the customer to bear the burden.

    Why do I say they have brought it upon themselves?

    1. Grossly overpricing software for the home market

    2. Failing to provide home versions of important software... Works was their chance to do this right - and they made all the formats incompatible with Office! This at a time when Word was $500!! All people wanted to do was interoperate with the stuff they used at the office...

    3. Ridiculous restrictions on the usage allowed of the software you actually purchase. For what REASON do they insist that OEM versions stay with a computer? Must you leave the gas tank full when you junk a car? If you have paid for what makes it go, you should be OK to use that on whatever you want.... ONE AT A TIME. That is common sense.

    4. Price again. People are fully aware that whatever R & D costs they may have are recovered over MILLIONS and MILLIONS of copies - so what possible reason can there be for charging hundreds of $$ for a $2 CD package? When the hardware to run it on is less money than the OS - something is wrong (hint - it isn't the price of the hardware)

    5. Failure to recognize reality: Guess what - because an illicit copy of your software is being used DOES NOT MAKE IT A LOST SALE. Always by far the greatest proportion of people pirating stuff are those who CANNOT and/or WILL NOT buy it regardless. They do NOT represent a lost sale, and no lock-up mechanism will change that.

    6. Presenting customers and pirates with a challenge: What they have done with these increasingly annoying intrusions on legitimate customers is provide a challenge to those so inclined to 'beat the system'. While this is splendid entertainment - it is hardly creating any value for the company. If there is nothing to 'beat', a lot of talented people will leave it alone, and not be involved in illegal distribution.

    So - what should they do about this? At this point I think the only recovery they CAN make is to split the Home and Business models more thoroughly. Drop the OEM distinction - and stop insisting that hardware should not be sold without an OS.

    The HOME version of software should retain all the glitz (Aero for instance - although disableable when necessary or by choice) - but as little of the BUSINESS functionality as necessary. For instance, peer-to-peer networking support only. No support for remote desktops, or networked printers (other than connected to a peer). If you need those things - then you can pay the business edition prices. I am sure there are other items that can be 'engineered' effectively to differentiate - but I can't think of them right now :) Then - Home edition - $60-$70. Business edition as priced now. Upgrade path - the difference. Restrictions on moving from computer to computer - none, as long as only ONE computer can run it. Any computer from which it is removed must be disabled, or provided with an alternative OS only..

    These measures - along perhaps with 'Bonus Packs' for extra functionality - would go a longggg way towards removing the incentive for people to pirate. In fact I suspect that a LOT of people would actually 'legalize' themselves if the price were related to value. You would also get a lot of people upgrading from previous versions to XP level if the price were in line with value. On top of that, the perception of MS as nothing but a great sucking maw of greed would quickly be replaced with a perception of a software giant that thinks about its customers once again...

    Well - worth $.02?

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    AstroCreep

    <i>THEY HAVE EASED UP ALREADY!!</i><br>
    The **** they have; did you even read the part I stated about the lady asking me for the unit's serial number and for the Product Key from the side of the unit? There is no reason for them to ask for that information (especially considering MS said they would <i>not</i> ask for anything other than the Installation Key when/if you had to activate over the phone).<br><br>

    Even with all the hoops I've had to go through to activate copies of XP, I'm not looking forward to Vista in a corporate environment. I'd like to see a different way for corporations to activate OEM copes (I know the Volume-Licensing versions have different methods) so that it's less of a hassle (maybe actually do an inventory of hardware/serial number to keep accountability? Sure that was my initial gripe, but if they were to SAY they were going to keep tabs on that info instead of saying "We don't need it" then actually asking for it, I wouldn't even have made a post).<br><br>
    EDIT: <i>"They were going to only let people reactivate Vista a couple of times and they changed it so people can *infinitely* move and reactivate Vista as long as they uninstall it from the previous machine."</i>
    That isn't "Easing Up" because you can't do that with an OEM copy - they made this concession after a backlash about making this statement for the RETAIL VERSION of Vista. How is this different that the retail version of Windows XP (or pervious versions)? It's not - you've <i>always</i> been allowed to 'move' a retail version as long as it's not on more units than the license is good for. What you described was MS trying to 'get one over' on people who buy retail copies versus OEM (<i>because</i> they are allowed to move retail copies where they can't move OEM).

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    Fil0403

    OMG, what a horrible incident... Those must have been terrible times for you and your families and friends... Did you report the case to the International Orgnization of Human Rights?

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    1bn0

    If you have a legally aquired copy of Vista you can re-activate it after a hardware change. The FAQ says you can re-activate 5 time over the internet. Afte that you have to do it by phone.

    A HDD does require a re-qctivation.


    Vista Activation FAQ

    http://www.microsoft.com/uk/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/activationfaq.mspx

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    Roy Humphreys

    1bn0, I'm not totally sure that this is the correct answer. My understanding of the matter, and it is also noted in the faq you linked to, is that an OEM version will require re-activation if the HDD AND Ram are changed at the same time. So in effect, changing just the HDD shouldn't have caused Vista to prompt to reactivate.

    That is of course unless a full re-install wasn't performed first but even then, validation should have checked the activation status and found all other components present and correct.

    That said, I suppose it's quite possible (probable) that this is what has triggered the re-activation status in Vista.

    Oh well, better stop rambling now and get on with some work.

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    Dennis.Keeling

    thank god I'm buying an IMac next week

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    Northlite

    I would imagine that if Macs gain the popularity and customization of regular PC's Apple may eventually find the need to preform some sort of activation to verify that the OS on their systems is a purchased one.

    For now though a boot legged copy of a Mac OS doesn't seem as popular to want over a Microsoft one.

    I do find the activation quite silly as the real thieves are not going to call in for activation they are just going to crack code and go on, it seems it mainly catches innocent people who didn't know they purchased a bad copy of Windows.

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    0 Votes
    Fil0403

    Maybe the poor old innocent people who didn't know they purchased a bad copy of Windows should just be more careful about what they buy; if it's not their fault it's much less Microsoft's fault which is the only one that loses with this; either way, it doesn't catch the innocent people who didn't know they purchased a bad copy of Windows because, if that happens, you just have to send a proof of purchase to Microsoft and you'll be able to buy a genuine copy of Vista for a big discount and the bad guys who sold them the bad copies of Vista will get caught if you denounce them.

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    0 Votes
    Paul R.A.

    most people bought from sound establshments that used volume licenses in the states- then MS changed the rules. Some had the CDs some and some lost the Certs of Auth.

    Others did buy unwittingly. But as for Microsoft- the USA market is paying for the Developing countries- when China can purchase a legal Windows/Office combo for about 3 bucks US - and Vista is going for about half the cost in Japan- who is paying for the inroads in other markets? Us.

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    FXEF

    Yeah, I thank my lucky stars that XP quit booting. Installed Ubuntu and never looked back.

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    Fil0403

    Yeah, you have a lot to thank them. I bet you never look back, where you look at is to the manual looking for instructions on how to uninstall a program or calibrate your microphone for Skype and on the Internet looking for compatible software and good drivers for your hardware, LOL.

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    Fil0403

    So what are you going to do with all the software and hardware that will be rendered useless after that ingenious decision? Might as well give to someone who knows how to work with computers. :)

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    Gromit

    I was building a new PC back in February right after Vista came out. I bought a full version of Vista Ultimate, not the OEM version.

    I changed a DVD reader/writer and Vista deactivated itself. I tried to reactivate online, but got a message to call Microsoft instead. Got an Indian guy on the phone who questioned me like I was a criminal before finally agreeing to reactivate. He told me that if I changed any hardware, this would happen again - no apologies. To this guy, I was a potential software pirate and that's the way I was treated.

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    AstroCreep

    Happens all the time to me.
    At work I need to format systems every now and again, and there are a few systems with Windows XP (OEM - hp boxes) that I need to format on a pretty regular basis because they are used as test boxes and/or for devel work.
    Any time I activate these systems I have to call (and it's always routed through India) and most of the time I get the same treatment. One time I was asked not only for the 'installation ID' but also for the product key <i>and</i> the desktop's serial number! I told the lady "Nope, and I want to talk to your supervisor" at which point she goes "Okay, I have your new installation ID ready".

    As far as Vista, I'm not ready to kiss that pig yet, but I've read stories where people have had to re-activate after upgrading optical drives and even after a guy was overclocking his PC.

    Message to Microsoft - EASE UP ALREADY! I understand piracy is a problem, but damn, this is a bit extreme.

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    The Cars Forever

    I rebuild systems quite regularly at work. I have had at least 15 with Vista that I wipe the OEM build (clean install) and during the Vista Activation I am prompted to call. All I have had to state is:

    1) This is a rebuild of an OEM system.
    2) This is the only computer this copy of Vista is loaded on.

    After this I may have to confirm one or more pieces of info, but it is all pretty quick. I have never taken more than 5 minutes total from the call being answered to Vista being re-activated.

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    0 Votes
    DataPoint

    Since building a new Vista designated office PC and installing Vista Ultimate OEM, I've had to phone Microsoft's 800 reactivation # 3 times in a span of just 2 months for just 1 PC! Vista has never offered me the opportunity to reactivate online - Quite Annoying! I'm not completely sure of what triggered these 3 deactivation events but since installing the system I've independently added memory, added a backup drive outside of a Raid 5 array, re-installed MS Office and suffered a degraded Raid Array once that repaired itself. I've never had to reinstall or repair the OS, it sits right where it was originally installed in its own dedicated partition. Each time a deactivation event is triggered I have to call Microsoft's Call Center (in India?) and answer rather mundane questions in order to reactivate. Obtaining a 25 digit key, provided verbally with a dialect that is sometimes difficult to understand (my ears must be getting old!), is a PITA!

    Microsoft sure seems to have impleminted a hair trigger deactivation scenario (system fingerprint) in Vista. I don't think Microsoft should be concerned with anything other than the motherboard that the OS boots from. It should be of no concern to MS if I add disks, memory or any other peripherals as long as they are hosted from the same mobo.

    Futhermore, this whole process (if really necessary) should be handled without resorting to clunky call center intervention. As it is, the call center folks don't even establish the identity of the caller so what's the point? Must be an attempt at intimidating a would be OS Pirate because they are required to speak to a live person I guess. A much more sophisticated reactivation process should be implimented online at various levels based on the type of triggering event. If my bank and brokerage firm can authenticate me online and handle transactions involving assets thousands of times more valuable than a Vista license I'm sure Microsoft can figure out how to handle re-activations in a less annoying and more streamlined manner. I would think better security could be better enforced using 100% online re-activations versus callers using cordless phones and cell phones to obtain reactivation keys. Needless to say, this has been an Ultimate Dissapointment in how Microsoft has impliminted this heavy handed and somewhat paranoid house-to-house, office-to-office search for potential pirated software. I think MS needs to ratchet down their OS reactivation triggering mechanism a bit and streamline the whole process but hey, that's just my opinion.

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    Freebird54

    The only possible justifications for this 'system' implemented by MS would be if:

    1. It worked correctly. I personally ended up having to use a pirated version for a month because they would not acknowledge that what I was using was legitimate. (problem since solved by dropping MS)

    2. It did not shut down the system in such a draconian manner. There is *NEVER* an excuse for this kind of behaviour to your customers - even if being 'pre-informed' of this possibility apparently makes it legal. (just how pre-informed is the average user? Before purchase? I think not....

    3. It stopped pirates (or even slowed them down). It does not appear to be making any difference to the pirates - I know of at least 5 places where I could get XP or Vista free of encumbrances. I actually GOT an XP that way (as mentioned) because my legit one was not activated....

    As none of these criteria have been met effectively, all it represents is a major nuisance to legitimate customers, as well as an expense that I am sure is passed along to all unfortunate enough to have rented the product!

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    0 Votes
    Fil0403

    Bashing = 100%.

    Solutions proposed = 0%.


    Now this a typical Microsoft bashing comment, LOL.

    +
    0 Votes
    Fil0403

    Message to you - THEY HAVE EASED UP ALREADY!! They were going to only let people reactivate Vista a couple of times and they changed it so people can *infinitely* move and reactivate Vista as long as they uninstall it from the previous machine. If you understand piracy is a problem (that's something, most people don't know that) but think this is a bit extreme put yourself in their position and come up with another solution instead of keep bashing Microsoft for every reason like everyone else.

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    0 Votes
    Freebird54

    - but only because even THEY recognized that their plan was beyond the amount that even the unthinking and unknowing would accept. After all, people are PAYING to use this stuff!

    Piracy is a problem they have mainly brought upon themselves, so they should 'suck it up' and pay the price for that themselves - not expect the customer to bear the burden.

    Why do I say they have brought it upon themselves?

    1. Grossly overpricing software for the home market

    2. Failing to provide home versions of important software... Works was their chance to do this right - and they made all the formats incompatible with Office! This at a time when Word was $500!! All people wanted to do was interoperate with the stuff they used at the office...

    3. Ridiculous restrictions on the usage allowed of the software you actually purchase. For what REASON do they insist that OEM versions stay with a computer? Must you leave the gas tank full when you junk a car? If you have paid for what makes it go, you should be OK to use that on whatever you want.... ONE AT A TIME. That is common sense.

    4. Price again. People are fully aware that whatever R & D costs they may have are recovered over MILLIONS and MILLIONS of copies - so what possible reason can there be for charging hundreds of $$ for a $2 CD package? When the hardware to run it on is less money than the OS - something is wrong (hint - it isn't the price of the hardware)

    5. Failure to recognize reality: Guess what - because an illicit copy of your software is being used DOES NOT MAKE IT A LOST SALE. Always by far the greatest proportion of people pirating stuff are those who CANNOT and/or WILL NOT buy it regardless. They do NOT represent a lost sale, and no lock-up mechanism will change that.

    6. Presenting customers and pirates with a challenge: What they have done with these increasingly annoying intrusions on legitimate customers is provide a challenge to those so inclined to 'beat the system'. While this is splendid entertainment - it is hardly creating any value for the company. If there is nothing to 'beat', a lot of talented people will leave it alone, and not be involved in illegal distribution.

    So - what should they do about this? At this point I think the only recovery they CAN make is to split the Home and Business models more thoroughly. Drop the OEM distinction - and stop insisting that hardware should not be sold without an OS.

    The HOME version of software should retain all the glitz (Aero for instance - although disableable when necessary or by choice) - but as little of the BUSINESS functionality as necessary. For instance, peer-to-peer networking support only. No support for remote desktops, or networked printers (other than connected to a peer). If you need those things - then you can pay the business edition prices. I am sure there are other items that can be 'engineered' effectively to differentiate - but I can't think of them right now :) Then - Home edition - $60-$70. Business edition as priced now. Upgrade path - the difference. Restrictions on moving from computer to computer - none, as long as only ONE computer can run it. Any computer from which it is removed must be disabled, or provided with an alternative OS only..

    These measures - along perhaps with 'Bonus Packs' for extra functionality - would go a longggg way towards removing the incentive for people to pirate. In fact I suspect that a LOT of people would actually 'legalize' themselves if the price were related to value. You would also get a lot of people upgrading from previous versions to XP level if the price were in line with value. On top of that, the perception of MS as nothing but a great sucking maw of greed would quickly be replaced with a perception of a software giant that thinks about its customers once again...

    Well - worth $.02?

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    0 Votes
    AstroCreep

    <i>THEY HAVE EASED UP ALREADY!!</i><br>
    The **** they have; did you even read the part I stated about the lady asking me for the unit's serial number and for the Product Key from the side of the unit? There is no reason for them to ask for that information (especially considering MS said they would <i>not</i> ask for anything other than the Installation Key when/if you had to activate over the phone).<br><br>

    Even with all the hoops I've had to go through to activate copies of XP, I'm not looking forward to Vista in a corporate environment. I'd like to see a different way for corporations to activate OEM copes (I know the Volume-Licensing versions have different methods) so that it's less of a hassle (maybe actually do an inventory of hardware/serial number to keep accountability? Sure that was my initial gripe, but if they were to SAY they were going to keep tabs on that info instead of saying "We don't need it" then actually asking for it, I wouldn't even have made a post).<br><br>
    EDIT: <i>"They were going to only let people reactivate Vista a couple of times and they changed it so people can *infinitely* move and reactivate Vista as long as they uninstall it from the previous machine."</i>
    That isn't "Easing Up" because you can't do that with an OEM copy - they made this concession after a backlash about making this statement for the RETAIL VERSION of Vista. How is this different that the retail version of Windows XP (or pervious versions)? It's not - you've <i>always</i> been allowed to 'move' a retail version as long as it's not on more units than the license is good for. What you described was MS trying to 'get one over' on people who buy retail copies versus OEM (<i>because</i> they are allowed to move retail copies where they can't move OEM).

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    0 Votes
    Fil0403

    OMG, what a horrible incident... Those must have been terrible times for you and your families and friends... Did you report the case to the International Orgnization of Human Rights?