Questions

Why does my laptop only see the Netgear router and no other computer?

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Locked

Why does my laptop only see the Netgear router and no other computer?

joehelf
I have a Dell XP desktop with a CanonM MP730 printer connected via USB cable. I also have a Netgear router connected to this XP desktop just to use as a wireless connection for my laptop to be able to use the Canon printer.When I looked at my network connection I see the Netgear router and that's it. It does not see the computer that is hard wired to this router through its ethernet cable. The desktop does see the laptop on the network map but I can't access it or see any files on the laptop. I'm only using the router as a way to communicate between the desktop and the laptop. I use my cellphone and tethering with my desktop to get out on the internet. I have both computers with the same workgroup name. I have tried to turn off all firewalls. I've tried to install a printer in the Vista laptop using the "local printer" instructions found everywhere. Each time I get the message "the path cannot be found". I think I'm getting this because it doesn't even see the desktop computer let alone the printer attached to it.
You people have helped me about a year ago and I know you will know how to help me again I have confidence in your abilities. Thanks in advance.
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robo_dev

If so, that's the problem.

ICS sets up a DHCP server, and you also have one in the router...you cannot have two DHCP servers on the same LAN.

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joehelf

Since I've got my Droid phone and learned I could tether to the internet from the phone I got rid of my Wildblue sattelite internet service. In the past the Wildblue came into its sattelite modem and from there connected to my router. Then from the router I used the ethernet to my XP desktop for internet access. I now connect my cell phone via USB to the XP desktop, enable tethering on the phone, hit the connect icon in the task bar and I get internet through the phone. The printer is connected to the XP via USB. Where do I find the ICS information on the XP so I can check whether or not I am using it?

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robo_dev

If you have ICS installed/enabled it would appear as an option for the network adapter properties for the primary network adapter on the PC.

see screen-shots on following link:
http://www.home-network-help.com/ics-host-computer.html

Note: DO NOT install or enable ICS, as this is not a way to fix the problem you're having.

If it IS enabled, then this is most likely part of the problem, since ICS has it's own DHCP server to give IP addresses to other computers, and it would conflict with the DHCP server in your router.

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joehelf

I downloaded a program from my phone on the internet from www.junefabrics.com called "pda.net".
This allows me to start an internet session on my cell phone and everything comes to my desktop just like I'm connected to a DSL or satelite modem. It's high speed and very reliable. I don't know about the ICS unless it is configured once the software is installed.

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TobiF

But if you at some point of time decided to "share" the mobile connection over ICS, then you may have some strange residual settings on your lan connection.

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TobiF

Check your windows firewall and what "network location" is attached to the current network.
(For a "public network", the windows firewall will restrict file and printer sharing.)

Also check that "windows networking client" is active on your laptop, it is needed when you use shared resources on your home network.

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joehelf

I went in and turned off Norton's 360 firewalls on both computers while trouble shooting. Still could not see anything but the router from the Vista laptop. On the desktop I can see the laptop in the network mapping but when I try to access it I get an error message about not having permission or priviledges even though I am the administrator. Not sure what to do there either.
I also have the laptop set to "private network" but right at this moment can't remember if the XP is set to "private network". I will check that later tonight.

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TobiF

On your laptop, go into
Settings - Network connections, and look at the properties of the connection you're using.

You need "client for MS networks" to be active here.

In the same way, make sure that "File and Printer sharing" is active on the XP machine.

Oh - one more thing, but that will be in a separate post. Stay tuned. :)

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joehelf

I'm at work right now and I will look when I get home this evening.
Yes... I will stay tuned.

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TobiF

This is related to the "Home network" setting:

On the Vista machine, go to the "Network & Sharing center" and check for this connection that "Network discovery" is active.
(http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/What-is-network-discovery)

If your XP isn't upgraded to SP3, then you need to add an agent for network discovery separately. Have a read here: http://winhlp.com/node/179

Also: Check that the corresponding services are running. (in services.msc)
On Vista, check for:
Function Discovery Provider Host, and
Function Discovery Resource Publication

I found a rather detailed step-by-step instruction on file and printer sharing between xp and Vista here: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb727037.aspx

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OH Smeg

But did you share the Printer on the XP System?

How did you setup the Workgroup and did you enable File & Printer Sharing on both systems?

Col

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joehelf

My printer settings is for sharing. The name of the printer is Canon. My workgroup name is the default MSHome. I changed the workgroup on the Vista laptop to MSHome also so both computers have the same workgroup name.
What stops the laptop from seeing anything other than the Netgear router? I can even connect to the Netgear router but it doesn't do me any good since it is the end of the road.

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OH Smeg

It's different to XP and needs to be treated differently. To me it sounds as if the Vista System is not correctly setup as the XP Machine can see that but as you have not shared anything it's unable to access data on the HDD.

You'll need to read the Vista Network Setup Routine try looking here for the solution

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/922120

Col

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TobiF

In case there are some problems with discovery, have you tried connecting to the XP using its IP address instead?
For instance \\192.168.1.100\MyPrinter

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joehelf

I must admit. I've seen and read many scripts about this and I do not understand how to do it. I've heard of pinging. But do not know how. I would need some step by step instructions to do this. Can you help?

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TobiF

1. Make sure the ip number of the XP computer doesn't change.
-Either instruct Netgear DHCP to alway assign the same IP address to the XP machine, or write down the current IP configuration of the XP and then hard code an ip address to it. The address must be in the same subnet, but outside of the DHCP range. (And beware that all zeroes or all ones are reserved for a typical home network, you should avoid x.x.x.0 and x.x.x.255, as well as the typical gateway address at x.x.x.1) Let's say you're using 192.168.1.250.

2. Share the printer on the XP.
Share a folder at the same time, just for testing.

3. Open an explorer window on the Vista. In the address bar, enter \\192.168.1.250\ and hit enter. If you're lucky, you should see the shared folder and the printer.

4. Right click on the printer to add it into your settings.

I may be wrong on some details, but these steps might lead you in the right direction.

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CG IT

having the same workgroup name isn't the same as both computers belonging to the same workgroup. The default name workgroup is just that, a default, as is a security boundry. No other computers can access without providing user name and password.

With Vista, unless you have network discovery turned on in the Network and Sharing center, it's not going to see anyone. Further, if your using wireless, you have to specify the type of connection it is, public, private or business, with each type having different security settings. Public being the most restrictive. Typically, wireless connections are considered public unless you specify otherwise.

Bottom line is, you have to share something to gain access to it. If the computers don't belong to the same workgroup, then user names and passwords are required [user accounts that are used are on each computer].

you access shares using \\ip address\share name where IP address is the computers network card address and share name is the share name you specified when you created the share.

you don't actually have to "see" the computer in my network places, to access shares on it. you just need to know it's address and the name of the share, plus have permission to access it.

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joehelf

Your opening statement "having the same workgroup name isn't the same as both computers belonging to the same workgroup" is the first time I've heard anyone say that. I thought when you name a computer's workgroup it automatically belongs to that workgroup. If I name the 2 different computers a same workgroup name then I just assumed they would be part of that workgroup. Maybe I'm missing something here.

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CG IT

When Windows is first installed on a computer, it is made a member of a workgroup called "workgroup". This is a security boundry for that individual computer [since every machine that has windows installed on it, also will be made a member of a workgroup called "workgroup".] This default security boundry keeps other computers from connecting to each other without authorization.

to have other computers on your network, share files and folders between each other without user name and password prompts, you create a workgroup. This requires you to change the default workgroup named "workgroup" to something else. Until you change it, each computer has a security boundry around it and any other computer trying to connect must enter a user name and password [a user account on the computer one is trying to access].

This has been the way Microsoft has setup Windows and file and printer sharing since the days of NT.

you can, if you want, use the Windows Vista homegroup wizard to create a homegroup between other computers [XP/Vista/7] on your network or you can use the old tried and true method of creating you own new workgroup and joining each computer to the new workgroup.

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joehelf

When I'm in my Vista network center I see where I've chosen to share the folders but I also see where it says I'm not sharing any printers.
Again, I go back to the beginning of my question and think it is because my laptop doesn't even see my desktop or the printer it only sees the router. But why? What am I missing?

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TobiF

Where I show how you can try to access a shared resource via the IP address of the host, bypassing network discovery.

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CG IT

if your not sharing anything on the vista laptop, then you won't see anything in "sharing" in Network and Sharing Center unless other computer in the same workgroup/homegroup are sharing something.

Since we can not know whether you correctly created a homegroup/workgroup with other computers, there is no way to know "why" they are not shown in Network and Sharing Center.

you can ping the IP address of the laptop or desktop as a test to determine connectivity issues. If you can't ping, there's no connectivity. If you can ping the address, then you should be able to access the share by that address.

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joehelf

I,m about to take off for a couple of days so I won't be online but I did want to let you all know what happened last night. I came home from work sat down at this desktop with my laptop on right next to me and started reading all the posts again. I went to each link in each post and scratched my chin as I verified if I had done what everyone was telling me in each post. Then for whatever reason (I can't remember why) I decided to take off every person's sign-on passwords on the laptop. All of the sudden I was able to print 1 test page. After that my laptop kept telling me I needed to install the printer driver for the Canon MP730 to the laptop. But it just printed a test page! Never the less I went out to Canon USA found the printer's driver and downloaded it to the laptop and wahlah it all works. Right now I'm thinking the only thing that was not right was the passwords. What do you all think?