Questions

Wired and wireless network for home

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Wired and wireless network for home

boyerusmc
I just bought a house built in 1963; the phone and cable in the house is a do-it-youselfers nightmare. I'm upgrading everything and tearing out the old stuff. I plan to have cable/phone/CAT5 to every room - 2 in basement, 3 on 1st floor, 3 on 2nd floor. But, I need the freedom of wireless as well. I know approximately the layout, but need some technical advice. Here's what I'm going to have:

- Cable (ComCast) into basement going to cable jacks in each room AND to a Cisco DPC 3000 cable modem.
- There will be a Leviton 12-port snap in data block in basement where all CAT5 runs will terminate.
- There will be a Cisco/Linksys WRT54G2 V1 wireless router either on the first or second floor plugged into one of the ethernet jacks for some 'wireless only' devices.

My HUGE question is: I know I need a switch or hub of some sort and it has to be by the data block - What should I be using and how do I configure everything to work from either a plugged or unplugged environment? What can and can't be DHCP, etc.

Thank you everyone in advance for the help.
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    0 Votes
    mafergus

    You want a switch. Do not be tempted or enticed to use a hub. You will want it as close to the data block as possible. Makes things a lot less complex.

    Assuming u stick with that router, there won't be any dhcp issues as it will act as the gateway to your wired network. To keep it simple, when I do set ups like this for home users, if the cable modem's dhcp network is 192.168.1.x then I will make the wireless network 192.168.2.x and the wireless gateway will use the cable modem's address as it's default gateway.

    Everything on the wired lan can be dhcp, but for troubleshooting sake, i'd reserve the wireless router's external interface.

    and everything on the wireless lan can be dhcp as well.

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    0 Votes
    boyerusmc

    I found the following article about 'cascading' and thought this was the way to go:
    http://linksys.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linksys.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=17252&p_created=1224138956&p_sid=4XX83*Dj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=3890&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9NzMsNzMmcF9wcm9kcz0xLDIxMTQsMjMxNCZwX2NhdHM9MTcyMSwxNzIzJnBfcHY9My4yMzE0JnBfY3Y9Mi4xNzIzJnBfc2NmXzM9MSZwX3BhZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PWhvdyB0byBzZXQgdXAgYWNjZXNzIHBvaW50&p_li=&p_topview=1

    So, using the configuration you gave me with the cable modem plugged into the switch in the basement next to the data block - my wired users will plug into the wall in a room, come out the data block, and into the switch? And, my wireless users will hit the wireless router that's plugged into a wall jack to the data block to the switch?

    This is what I currently have for a configuration with a cable modem - wireless router - laptop:
    Wireless LAN adapter Wireless Network Connection:

    Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : hsd1.il.comcast.net.
    Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Dell Wireless 1397 WLAN Mini-Card
    Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-22-5F-BC-36-C6
    DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
    Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
    Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::10c3:e838:5bc1:378b%12(Preferred)
    IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.100(Preferred)
    Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
    Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Tuesday, May 04, 2010 9:35:07 AM
    Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Thursday, May 13, 2010 9:35:07 AM
    Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
    DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
    DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 285221471
    DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-11-DB-36-5B-00-25-64-3E-98-35

    DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 68.87.72.134
    68.87.77.134
    NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

    Thanks again....

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    0 Votes

    Yes

    mafergus

    it is similar to method 2 from your link

    Interntet--cable modem--switch--datablock--linksys router wan port--wireless clients

    The lan clients would connect to the datablock which would tie to the switch

    The IP structure might look like this

    192.168.1.1 Cable router--192.168.1.2 (resevered) Wireless router Wan side 192.168.2.1-- wireless router LAN side Router provides DHCP scope 192.168.2.2-192.168.2.x

    now your current modem is providing wireless, so you may need to use a different non-overlapping channel if you are planning to use both devices. Those are 1, 6, and 11.

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    0 Votes
    Ron K.

    Are you saying that the Cat5e or whatever isn't going through the router and only the wireless is? That seems messed up.<br>
    I thought it should be Modem>Router>Wired and Wireless PCs. <br>
    I don't want any of our computers, wired or wireless, facing the Internet without going through our router.

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    seanferd

    Yes, all your cable will will go through the router as well.

    nterntet--cable modem--switch--datablock--linksys router wan port --<

    --wireless router/AP--wireless clients

    -- cabled clients

    So, if you want everything to go through the router, you need 2 - one in front of the switch, and one wireless router/AP for the wireless clients, cabled to the Leviton block.

    If everyone can easily connect to a wireless AP in the basement, you can use one router, but you may even need 2 APs, one for each floor above the basement. The signal is RF, not x-rays, so you'll need to experiment with placement and number of APs to get full coverage with good signal strength.

    See also DIY antenna reflectors, and RF propagation.
    http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/wireless/?p=143

    http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/networking/?p=2882

    http://www.freeantennas.com/projects/template/index.html

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    Ron K.

    It makes sense to me now. <br>
    I'd suggest trying 802.11n. We get adequate signal strength and Internet/network speed through the tin-roof on a barn 100 feet away. I should check what his router is capable of. I may want one. :) <br>

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    0 Votes
    Ron K.

    I have 3 Linksys WRT54Gs sitting here in storage because I haven't gotten around to throwing them out. All 3 quit working for no reason at all, within two years, and I couldn't revive them. Their internal pages/setup were pretty sparse too. Maybe going to the DD-WRT software right away would make the setup better, being able to specify more detail. <br>
    I'll never buy another Linksys product. I prefer DLink. Their phone support was very good and I have more control over what my router can do. I estimate 30 internal router setup pages. For a family the DIR-655 even offers SecureSpot that will filter content like porn and adult pages. It does it by MAC address. Setup is easy.<br>
    We don't use SecureSpot here as we're all adults, with backup images. I tried it, set it up and ran with it for a few days. It works well. The thing is I don't go anywehere I'd be ashamed to show the local police. I don't think any of us do.<br>
    If I wanted to filter content I'd use OpenDNS but maybe filtered content isn't a consideration for the OP.

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    0 Votes
    mafergus

    That is exactly what I was trying to do to simplify things. Sorry if it caused any confusion. I agree on the wireless N but from his intro, he already had a router he wanted to use.

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    0 Votes
    Greybeard770

    You will want a NAT router in the basement connected to your cable modem (assuming the cable modem does not include that feature) at the patch panel. That WRT54G2 that you are putting upstairs is also a NAT router . One NAT is good, two NATs is bad when you use VPN or SSL or other secure connections. You need an access point (without router capabilities) for your wireless devices.
    If your NAT router in the basement doesnt have enough ports for all 8 jacks cascade it into a switch.
    You may get by with using the WRT54G2 in the basement to provide wireless for the house but straight up from the AP may have a weak signal.

  • +
    0 Votes
    mafergus

    You want a switch. Do not be tempted or enticed to use a hub. You will want it as close to the data block as possible. Makes things a lot less complex.

    Assuming u stick with that router, there won't be any dhcp issues as it will act as the gateway to your wired network. To keep it simple, when I do set ups like this for home users, if the cable modem's dhcp network is 192.168.1.x then I will make the wireless network 192.168.2.x and the wireless gateway will use the cable modem's address as it's default gateway.

    Everything on the wired lan can be dhcp, but for troubleshooting sake, i'd reserve the wireless router's external interface.

    and everything on the wireless lan can be dhcp as well.

    +
    0 Votes
    boyerusmc

    I found the following article about 'cascading' and thought this was the way to go:
    http://linksys.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linksys.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=17252&p_created=1224138956&p_sid=4XX83*Dj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=3890&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9NzMsNzMmcF9wcm9kcz0xLDIxMTQsMjMxNCZwX2NhdHM9MTcyMSwxNzIzJnBfcHY9My4yMzE0JnBfY3Y9Mi4xNzIzJnBfc2NmXzM9MSZwX3BhZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PWhvdyB0byBzZXQgdXAgYWNjZXNzIHBvaW50&p_li=&p_topview=1

    So, using the configuration you gave me with the cable modem plugged into the switch in the basement next to the data block - my wired users will plug into the wall in a room, come out the data block, and into the switch? And, my wireless users will hit the wireless router that's plugged into a wall jack to the data block to the switch?

    This is what I currently have for a configuration with a cable modem - wireless router - laptop:
    Wireless LAN adapter Wireless Network Connection:

    Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : hsd1.il.comcast.net.
    Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Dell Wireless 1397 WLAN Mini-Card
    Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-22-5F-BC-36-C6
    DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
    Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
    Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::10c3:e838:5bc1:378b%12(Preferred)
    IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.100(Preferred)
    Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
    Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Tuesday, May 04, 2010 9:35:07 AM
    Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Thursday, May 13, 2010 9:35:07 AM
    Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
    DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
    DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 285221471
    DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-11-DB-36-5B-00-25-64-3E-98-35

    DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 68.87.72.134
    68.87.77.134
    NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

    Thanks again....

    +
    0 Votes

    Yes

    mafergus

    it is similar to method 2 from your link

    Interntet--cable modem--switch--datablock--linksys router wan port--wireless clients

    The lan clients would connect to the datablock which would tie to the switch

    The IP structure might look like this

    192.168.1.1 Cable router--192.168.1.2 (resevered) Wireless router Wan side 192.168.2.1-- wireless router LAN side Router provides DHCP scope 192.168.2.2-192.168.2.x

    now your current modem is providing wireless, so you may need to use a different non-overlapping channel if you are planning to use both devices. Those are 1, 6, and 11.

    +
    0 Votes
    Ron K.

    Are you saying that the Cat5e or whatever isn't going through the router and only the wireless is? That seems messed up.<br>
    I thought it should be Modem>Router>Wired and Wireless PCs. <br>
    I don't want any of our computers, wired or wireless, facing the Internet without going through our router.

    +
    0 Votes
    seanferd

    Yes, all your cable will will go through the router as well.

    nterntet--cable modem--switch--datablock--linksys router wan port --<

    --wireless router/AP--wireless clients

    -- cabled clients

    So, if you want everything to go through the router, you need 2 - one in front of the switch, and one wireless router/AP for the wireless clients, cabled to the Leviton block.

    If everyone can easily connect to a wireless AP in the basement, you can use one router, but you may even need 2 APs, one for each floor above the basement. The signal is RF, not x-rays, so you'll need to experiment with placement and number of APs to get full coverage with good signal strength.

    See also DIY antenna reflectors, and RF propagation.
    http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/wireless/?p=143

    http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/networking/?p=2882

    http://www.freeantennas.com/projects/template/index.html

    +
    0 Votes
    Ron K.

    It makes sense to me now. <br>
    I'd suggest trying 802.11n. We get adequate signal strength and Internet/network speed through the tin-roof on a barn 100 feet away. I should check what his router is capable of. I may want one. :) <br>

    +
    0 Votes
    Ron K.

    I have 3 Linksys WRT54Gs sitting here in storage because I haven't gotten around to throwing them out. All 3 quit working for no reason at all, within two years, and I couldn't revive them. Their internal pages/setup were pretty sparse too. Maybe going to the DD-WRT software right away would make the setup better, being able to specify more detail. <br>
    I'll never buy another Linksys product. I prefer DLink. Their phone support was very good and I have more control over what my router can do. I estimate 30 internal router setup pages. For a family the DIR-655 even offers SecureSpot that will filter content like porn and adult pages. It does it by MAC address. Setup is easy.<br>
    We don't use SecureSpot here as we're all adults, with backup images. I tried it, set it up and ran with it for a few days. It works well. The thing is I don't go anywehere I'd be ashamed to show the local police. I don't think any of us do.<br>
    If I wanted to filter content I'd use OpenDNS but maybe filtered content isn't a consideration for the OP.

    +
    0 Votes
    mafergus

    That is exactly what I was trying to do to simplify things. Sorry if it caused any confusion. I agree on the wireless N but from his intro, he already had a router he wanted to use.

    +
    0 Votes
    Greybeard770

    You will want a NAT router in the basement connected to your cable modem (assuming the cable modem does not include that feature) at the patch panel. That WRT54G2 that you are putting upstairs is also a NAT router . One NAT is good, two NATs is bad when you use VPN or SSL or other secure connections. You need an access point (without router capabilities) for your wireless devices.
    If your NAT router in the basement doesnt have enough ports for all 8 jacks cascade it into a switch.
    You may get by with using the WRT54G2 in the basement to provide wireless for the house but straight up from the AP may have a weak signal.