Watercooler

President Obama sells access to the White House

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Locked

President Obama sells access to the White House

maxwell edison
Fix the link.

http :// freebeacon. com/chuck- todd-on-ofa-fundraising-this-just-looks- bad/

"Looks bad" my a$$. How about criminal?

"This just looks bad - it looks like the White House is selling access, Todd said Monday. It's the definition of selling access. If you believe money has a strangle hold over the entire political system this is ceding the moral high ground.

Hey Chuck! Apply the quack test. If it quacks like a duck, it's a friggin' duck! If it "looks like Obama is selling access", he's SELLING ACCESS!

Go ahead, all you Obama Kool Aide drinkers. Try to justify it by saying everybody does it.

P.S. I laugh - and am totally surprised - that the story is from MSNBC, and not FOX News!
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    HAL 9000 Moderator

    What are you trying to say here that Free Enterprise and Capitalism isn't acceptable any more?

    I thought that Free Enterprise and Capitalisms sold what they could and if it wasn't useful it wouldn't sell.

    Col :^0

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    maxwell edison

    .....that you can't seem to muster up even one serious word (or a funny non-serious word). If you have nothing to say, here's a hint. Don't try to say it.

    (Oh gee, I did it again.)

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    HAL 9000 Moderator

    Max you are talking like a Commie.

    However on a more serious note a while ago I believe it was possibly you who said something about voting for your preferred candidate. If it wasn't I apologize, but none the less it's really of no importance, as I replied that no you never get to vote for your Preferred Candidate the best you get to do is vote for the Parties Candidate.

    So once you acknowledge that you are not voting for who you believe would be the best candidate but who the Party and here it doesn't matter which party you have to accept that the Candidate offered by that party is beholding to that Political Party and is effectively a Puppet of that Political Party.

    So if they they do things like you have posted about here it's for their Political Party's Benefit not them self personally and they just are in a position of their Political Masters Say Jump and their only response possible is How High and for How Long.

    Doesn't matter who they are when they are in office they are the slaves of their Political Parties always have been and always will be. About the only time that this may be not rammed down peoples necks ts is when the candidate is Senile and are incapable of understanding what they are being told to do.

    But then again I think on that we can both agree that having a person like that in any Political Office anywhere in the world is most defiantly not in the best interests of the country/state that they are supposed to be representing as while they do not do as they are told directly by their very condition they are incapable of resisting their Political Masters at all and in a situation like that the Political Masters have free reign to do as they please without any possible hindrance or resistance.

    The only way that you can vote for your preferred candidate is to be an active member of a Political Party and then you are part of the problem and not in any way connected with a possible solution to Political Parties running the show for their own benefit at the expense of the country/state that they are supposed to be representing.

    Col

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    dogknees

    That ANYONE can get access by paying a fee? If so, I'd agree it's a problem. If however, they are placing controls around who can actually get access, where's the problem.

    Unless of course you think impressions matter more that reality.

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    aidemzo_adanac

    Do you really think Abdab Achmaeil would be able to buy in without screening? It's a push to get a precious few who he wants support from. I don't think it's a "use PayPal to gain access" deal. IF so you are in a lot of trouble but, even in the US, I don't think the government would be THAT dumb, not would they allow a president to launch such a campaign, which I'm sure was pushed on him to begin with.

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    AnsuGisalas

    what a shocker.

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    DelbertPGH

    Presidents have always rooted around for money and have held fancy dinners or overnight stays at the White House for big donors. Always. Contributions have always bought access, even in simpler, more honest times (in case you choose to believe there ever was a simple and honest time in American politics.)

    With recent Supreme Court decisions, where corporations can now give unlimited money to election-influencing organizations, and where election-influencing organizations can relabel themselves as political and cultural education groups (so as to avoid the feeble attempts to regulate money in elections, and where even making public the names of donors to these groups is seen as an impingement upon free speech, well, then, the floodgates are pretty much open. Good ideas and virtuous men without money will lose elections. Money is the price of admission to a career in governance, and not just a little money, either. I predict you'll see a ten billion dollar election in the next cycle.

    I hope Chuck Todd will learn to adjust his sensitivity to these sorts of shocks, and not waste anybody's further time with stories of his horror-stricken surprise. I hope nobody lets on to Chuck that other more seriously disturbing things are afoot in our culture, like, high school girls drink beer and get into sexual situations. The news might stop his heart.

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    john.a.wills

    The Beacon cannot find the story. I wonder if Obama got to it.

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    maxwell edison

    One silly, meaningless, and nonsensical (non American).
    One ignorant (non American).
    One both hypocritical and ignorant (non American).
    One critical of the reporter for his reporting (American).
    Unknown number who read, but decided (for their own reasons) to not comment.

    I shake my head in disbelief.

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    AnsuGisalas

    That most people don't bother taking your bait? Or that some people bothered to bite, just to see if you had something worthwhile for a change?
    Actually, I just answered my own question, I guess.

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    CharlieSpencer

    I'm one of those unknown number who originally decided to not comment. My reason? You take all the fun out of your discussions.

    I don't know what your goal was in starting this topic. You expressed your outrage; were you looking for anything besides total agreement? If not, why do you expect opposing responses when you started name calling ("Kool Aide drinkers") before anyone replied?

    You denigrate the few responses you've received to date ("ignorant", "hypocritical and ignorant"). You seem to think the nationality of the responders is important, although you're well aware this is an international forum. You toss out judgmental comments ("I shake my head in disbelief."); I doubt anyone expected to get 'scored'. As to "silly, meaningless, and nonsensical", this is the Water Cooler, remember?

    What do you expect when you create such a hostile environment? Geez, it's an IT site; do you really expect effective, reasoned, researched political debate here?

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    maxwell edison

    While this is indeed an International forum, the issues I'm interested in discussing are not International issues. If you disagree, then we have a different "world view", in which case, that's where the discussion should go.

    Moreover, while it may not be offensive to hear (read) opinions from non-Americans, It's extremely offensive to be bombarded with their obvious agenda for America. I don't have an agenda for Finland, for example, and I'll be damned if I'll let some jerk from Finland try to advance his agenda on me. Again, if you see it differently, it goes to that "world view" thing.

    I'll also admit this: The time for playing nice-nice with those who are, in my opinion, advancing an agenda that will be destructive to my country and its future, is over. And I find it extremely disturbing that you choose to defend them, while you leave Lady Liberty defenseless (in these forums).

    Am I abrasive at times? You're damned right I am. Do I know it? You're damned right I do. To paraphrase some guy in a movie, I'm mad as ****, and I'm not taking it anymore. And to paraphrase one of my favorite presidents, If you can't stand the heat, get the **** out of the kitchen!

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    AnsuGisalas

    More like jerk-wad. Wanna know why?
    Because you're not on the field yourself. You attack others without true interaction, that's boring and (considering the futility of your attacks) stupid.

    Your arguments only matter to the extent that you make people care about how you feel. And you can't make people care about that without engaging them, forming a mutual respect.
    You don't get no respect because you haven't earned it.
    What you used to have, you squandered over the last year or so (maybe more) of stand-offish negativity.

    Don't be such a sourpuss. I've told you a billion times already, if the stuff you want to see here isn't here, make it yourself. That's a positive and respectable attitude.

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    CharlieSpencer

    That you get international responses? That so few people opt to enter your kitchen?

    What did you expect when you started this discussion? What was your goal?

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    maxwell edison

    I guess I'm living in some la-la land where people can actually admit they were mistaken about something or someone. ****, I've done it. But I guess I give others too much credit.

    As only one example (of many). Go back to my 2007 and 2008 discussions in which I predicted the Democratic Party nominee (HC or BO) WOULD NOT close Guantanamo Bay, even though that was a HUGE issue during the election, etc. Barack Obama PROMISED to close GB in his first year. I said, no he won't.

    I have no need whatsoever for people to pat me on the back for being right, but for Petes sake. I was criticized THEN for taking the position I was taking, and Im being criticized now for simply pointing out I was not wrong.

    Barack Obama IS NOT who people thought he was, and the idiots who would not listen to reasonable and rational arguments years ago, are in denial today.

    But go ahead. I guess I deserve all the criticism you're handing me just for pointing out the obvious.

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    CharlieSpencer

    I'm criticizing your delivery of it, especially in conjunction with your disbelief in the responses you've received (or not received). You acknowledged that some readers have reasons they didn't respond; I offered mine.

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    aidemzo_adanac

    Can you share that with your government too?

    Why would you start a rant and then complain about the input and from whom?

    To paraphrase one of your favorite presidents;
    "If you can't stand the heat, get the **** out of the kitchen!"

    Americans want to control the world around them.....as they feel unsafe of course, has nothing to do with perishing without the world around them.

    Americans expect other nations to follow what THEY feel democracy should be.

    Americans expect the world to cowtow to their political agenda and threaten war for opposers.

    And yet, US politics is nobody's business but Americas?

    When you (America) professed to be a global leader (of what I am still unsure), when American political moves effect the world around them, in a global economy, in 2013 where there are no borders, how can you possibly even hope that all you will see if Americans who agree with you, when posting in an international forum full of people who support different governmental systems?

    Give your head a shake, Max! Get real, for once.

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    aidemzo_adanac

    One, over the top, sensationalist who takes political commentary and focuses on it as fact without a slant (American)

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    drowningnotwaving

    A slolw news day?

    Seriously?

    From the nation that singlehandedly invented the modern political donation process?

    ( ... possibly by re-inventing a process tried and true for the last, what, many thousands of years across the entire world ?? )

    Seriously, what is the issue?

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    AV .

    Maybe this is how Washington has always operated, but didn't Obama campaign over and over again about how he was going to change the way things are done in Washington? That's the reason people elected him. Remember hope and change?

    Clearly, at least to me, he broke his promise and proved he is just as bad as everyone he chastised during his campaign. No, maybe he's even worse because he told everyone what they wanted to hear just to get elected.

    AV

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    JamesRL

    I've heard many campaign promises since I was old enough to pay attention to them. For me as someone within TV range of the US border, that would be from the 1976 campaign and Jimmy Carter.

    Every presidential campaigner, Republican, Democrat and Independant, says they are going to clean up Washington, reform election finance, improve bipartisan co-operation, eliminate waste, improve education and on and on.

    Of course their ability to do so is constrained by Congress. They campaign as if they can control congress, but rarely do they get so lucky. Its almost inevitable that the will not be able to control congress for more than a couple of years. And of course external events happen like ecomonic crises, wars and other events that take focus away from the agenda that is being propesed on the campaign trail. Many successful candidates get to Washington only to find out they can't do what they promised because the money simply isn't available.

    As for donations for access, it has been happening for decades, with Republicans and Democrats. And sadly, it is probably less of an issue than with PACs, not to say one excuses the other. PACs have more clout than donors who get a dinner at the White House.

    In Canada we have very strict rules about who can lobby and how. A member of the governing party was kicked out because their spouse broke the rules. In Canada only individuals can contribute to political parties or candidates, and the maxmimum is $1100 per year per party or candidate. All contributions over $200 are on the public record. Companies, action committees, or lobby groups are not allowed to contribute anything.

    If you want to reform politics in the US, reforming campaign finances has to be holisitic. Pointing fingers at one area while ignoring another won't fix anything. If you stop white house dinners, you simply shift more money to PACs.

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    CharlieSpencer

    I've long thought the only people who should be allowed to contribute to a campaign are the registered voters of the district / state / region under contention. The laws you describe are close enough, though. If only it weren't so dang cold up there :-)

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    aidemzo_adanac

    I have been out on the porch with a cold beer and steaks on the BBQ. A stunning sunset (as we often see on the West coast), while watching the news in America about massive snow storms, ice and hail, tornadoes you name it, YUCK!
    The rest of Canada, as is to be expected, feet of snow, cold fronts blowing through etc. Central and Eastern Canada get weather extremes. Extremely hot and humind summer and extreme cold and snow in winter, not here. We dip below zero a few times in Winter (mainly at night) and it rains a lot on winter but we have it made for weather overall, wouldn't trade it for anything.

    I wore a polo shirt on calls today, it's just short of 60F here today, should be over 62F on the weekend. Sun is blazing through the office windows now, I was on the porch watching windsurfers and sail boats in English Bay and was camping last weekend.

    http://www.westinbayshore.com/cam/
    http://bluemist.net/
    http://www.katkam.ca/

    Sorry, had to do it.

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    CharlieSpencer

    but apparently there's a 30-day delay on the Internet :-)

    Oh, and Max hasn't been seen since this discussion. Don't hold your breath waiting on him.

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    aidemzo_adanac

    Unless underwater. I've been a sales rep for far too long to wait for people or expect them to be around, even when they absolutely promise they will be.
    In my world, people can't be trusted at all, it's all taken with a grain of salt when someone says they'll get back to you, they'll be around at a certain time etc.

    I don't expect anything from people any more. I think that mankind, in general, is a complete joke and becomes more and more irresponsible by the minute, as standards are lowered to the basement, I'd take a dog over people any day of the week.

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    aidemzo_adanac

    Was one of the web cams showing an old image or something or was it an outdated weather report you were referring to?

    This is today, not a cloud in the sky and too warm for a jacket.
    http://www.katkam.ca/

    My office is just across the other side of the vridge in the foreground, so I look at the mountains (behind the camera). Time is at a complete standstill on days like today, work is a 24 hour event...at least, and minutes are like hours as I wait, with my truck packed and ready downstairs. 4:30 is such a long way away, so I can head up the coast for some camping.

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    CharlieSpencer

    this discussion being almost a month old before you discovered it.

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    aidemzo_adanac

    I don't TR like I used to. I just decided to check off topic discussions for something I hadn't seen and ran across this one. Oh well, I get to ***** and moan and nobody is there to argue with me, that works too.

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    AV .

    But Obama takes the cake. His whole campaign was about hope and change and how he was going to change Washington. Sure, his predecessors all promised the same thing, but not to the same degree that Obama did. He was adamant about it. That was his appeal. To me, Hillary should have beaten him handily.

    Our Congress is a total disgrace. Both sides work against each other and neither side seems to care how their dog and pony show affects the American people. I do understand the argument. We have to stop spending money we don't have, but Obama, the man who is supposed to lead, isn't doing anything to make things work. He is taking his argument to the people instead and making sure that any cuts will hurt, just to make his point. I can't believe we can't cut the size of government without compromising our security or laying of thousands of people. I think its grandstanding on Obama's part, just to make his point and defend his big government agenda.

    Obama may not like what Republicans have to say but, the sequester was his idea to begin with and there are things that could be cut that wouldn't affect anything critical. Obama will not even consider trying to soften the ****, however. Its his way or the highway.

    You have the right idea in Canada. Plain and simple. I don't understand why we can't do something like that here.

    AV

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    aidemzo_adanac

    Canada has a commie socialist government that carries people from womb to tomb. Unlike free, democratic nations, such as the USA, we have problems with people unfairly collecting welfare!!! A portion of my taxes and medical premiums are given to OTHER PEOPLE, who didn't earn it themselves, just so they can get treatment!!! (I know, how dare they suggest I help countrymen with my tax dollars and premiums!).

    Of course there's also the fact that it's really cold here, if it wasn't for the sunshine and cloudless skies this past weekend, people may have realized it was only 68F !! Brrrrrr, snowy Canada!

    Then of course there are the people! People come here from all over (I am guessing because they want to make it to the USA, as per the general consensus that everyone wants to live there). When they are here, they aren't even expected to assimilate our culture and language!!!! THOSE people get to come here and not be shunned for their religious upbringing, their clothes, foods and society. Ghastly, truly ghastly.

    And THEN there's the Canadian government. Like no other nation on Earth, our unique, soclialst government seems to have hidden agenda's (I KNOW!!) . They take tax money from people who work hard, and they use it for purposes of their own means, saying it in the public's best interests. Now I understand that is what the definition of government actually is but COME ON ALREADY!! Why can't I just keep my money and say screw it to everyone else who wants some. "I'm sick and I need help" oh WAAAAA, not my problem after all.

    No, you don't want America to run like Canada. We are far too sated and reserved in our ways. We spend way too much time ignoring the government's every move and getting on with our lives as if government didn't exist. We don't even FEAR other Canadians here. We don't carry guns to protect innocent people who may be accosted, we don't have a personal arsenal for protecting our families (that's right we don't even prepare to protect our FAMILIES here. ) we can't play John Wayne in the mall with our CCW permits, NOTHING I TELL YOU!
    We don't even fear our government, can you believe such idiocy?!

    When it comes to other nations around the globe, nobody can be bothered with us. They just think we are a happy, passive nation. We've been paramount in protecting allied forces for many decades, we have soldiers at war and have successfully completed missions that have saved thousands of allied lives, why don't the bad countries see US as a target, see US as warriors, it's just not FAIR!!! Nobody wants to kills us, why not? what haven't we done to deserve being left alone?

    Nah, you don' t want to live like we do, and please pass the word around, DON'T GO TO CANADA. "There's nothing to see here folks, just keep moving along"

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    aidemzo_adanac

    Of course they do, that's the definition of politician.

    Obama's promise to change the way things were done in Washington, probably wasn't focused too much on the specifics behind campaign fundraising, more than just the political system itself.

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    maxwell edison

    http :// www.businessinsider.com/bob-woodward-obama-sequester-white-house-reporting-price-politics-2013-2

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    neilb@uk

    Just because he's half of Woodstein and he's been in a movie played by Robert Redford doesn't mean he doesn't talk crap, sometimes.

    I thought you wanted your government to stop wasting money so what's wrong with NOT deploying aircraft carriers? And, as for "Or George W. Bush saying, 'You know, I'm not going to invade Iraq because I can't get the aircraft carriers I need?'", what was ever wrong with George W saying "You know, I'm not going to invade Iraq because it has sod-all to do with 911 and it would be stupid and a waste of money and it will take us years to get out.",

    Edited to add: And the follow up seems to sort of put this (non-)story away. http://www.businessinsider.com/bob-woodward-gene-sperling-white-house-obama-threat-sequester-2013-2

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    maxwell edison

    You see anything else.

    Nixonian behavior is unacceptable - end of story.

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    aidemzo_adanac

    Why because that is YOUR belief and others are not allowed ot feel differently?
    For someone who spends all his time spouting the base premise of Liberty and freedom, something nobody living outside of America could possibly conceive, you certainly take the stand of a dictator a lot.

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    aidemzo_adanac

    Saying "you will regret this", is not a threat at all. If a kid wants an extra scoop of ice cream and his mom knows it will make him sick, is she "threatening him" by saying he's regret eating another bowl? No, not by any stretch of the imagination.

    If you want to buy a new car and it will clean out your account, are you being threatened when your friend says "don't buy it, you will regret it!"
    No.

    But when a newsie shoots his mouth off, then takes a single sentence from an emailed reply and focuses on it, almost surely out of context too, it is now a threat.
    NO

    God man, get a grip already! When people focused on single comments, taken out of context, toward the great George W. Bush , you instantly dismissed it as typical left leaning BS. However when the same is done toward a NEWSIE, of all people, it's a call to arms. Americans should stand up and not take such slanderous threats lightly. They should feel bad for exercising their freedom to vote for whom they believe in and for making such choices based on their personal feelings. They were wrong and you were right and they should feel ashamed for not following your lead or seeing the same side of the campaign that you supported.

    Get real. You ever so proudly live in America, what you actually believe to be the mightiest and greatest nation on the planet. You will fight to your death to support the right for YOUR freedom to make your own choices, it's the cornerstone of American society after all.

    However, you are so quick to condemn others for exercising their freedom to make THEIR choices.

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    aidemzo_adanac

    How much ACCESS to controlling the USA do you feel they would actually get?

    You can contact your local MLA for free, so a President uses a "backstage meet and greet opportunity" to raise funds, I'm sure there have been worse fund raising scenarios over the years from both sides too.

    US presidents charge for public appearances, don't they? I know they sure cash in that way after their term.

    TR sometimes invites a select few to chime in on site changes, gather ideas etc. That doesn't mean that those users then have ANY control ,in any sense of the word, over what TR does. Are you not just pissed that it wasn't a Republican president and you could afford to chime in with him?

    What issue does it raise with you?
    Security hole?
    Poor fundraising methods?
    Control of the president's decisions?

    Sorry, I just don't get what the issue is.

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    HAL 9000 Moderator

    What are you trying to say here that Free Enterprise and Capitalism isn't acceptable any more?

    I thought that Free Enterprise and Capitalisms sold what they could and if it wasn't useful it wouldn't sell.

    Col :^0

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    maxwell edison

    .....that you can't seem to muster up even one serious word (or a funny non-serious word). If you have nothing to say, here's a hint. Don't try to say it.

    (Oh gee, I did it again.)

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    HAL 9000 Moderator

    Max you are talking like a Commie.

    However on a more serious note a while ago I believe it was possibly you who said something about voting for your preferred candidate. If it wasn't I apologize, but none the less it's really of no importance, as I replied that no you never get to vote for your Preferred Candidate the best you get to do is vote for the Parties Candidate.

    So once you acknowledge that you are not voting for who you believe would be the best candidate but who the Party and here it doesn't matter which party you have to accept that the Candidate offered by that party is beholding to that Political Party and is effectively a Puppet of that Political Party.

    So if they they do things like you have posted about here it's for their Political Party's Benefit not them self personally and they just are in a position of their Political Masters Say Jump and their only response possible is How High and for How Long.

    Doesn't matter who they are when they are in office they are the slaves of their Political Parties always have been and always will be. About the only time that this may be not rammed down peoples necks ts is when the candidate is Senile and are incapable of understanding what they are being told to do.

    But then again I think on that we can both agree that having a person like that in any Political Office anywhere in the world is most defiantly not in the best interests of the country/state that they are supposed to be representing as while they do not do as they are told directly by their very condition they are incapable of resisting their Political Masters at all and in a situation like that the Political Masters have free reign to do as they please without any possible hindrance or resistance.

    The only way that you can vote for your preferred candidate is to be an active member of a Political Party and then you are part of the problem and not in any way connected with a possible solution to Political Parties running the show for their own benefit at the expense of the country/state that they are supposed to be representing.

    Col

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    dogknees

    That ANYONE can get access by paying a fee? If so, I'd agree it's a problem. If however, they are placing controls around who can actually get access, where's the problem.

    Unless of course you think impressions matter more that reality.

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    aidemzo_adanac

    Do you really think Abdab Achmaeil would be able to buy in without screening? It's a push to get a precious few who he wants support from. I don't think it's a "use PayPal to gain access" deal. IF so you are in a lot of trouble but, even in the US, I don't think the government would be THAT dumb, not would they allow a president to launch such a campaign, which I'm sure was pushed on him to begin with.

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    AnsuGisalas

    what a shocker.

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    DelbertPGH

    Presidents have always rooted around for money and have held fancy dinners or overnight stays at the White House for big donors. Always. Contributions have always bought access, even in simpler, more honest times (in case you choose to believe there ever was a simple and honest time in American politics.)

    With recent Supreme Court decisions, where corporations can now give unlimited money to election-influencing organizations, and where election-influencing organizations can relabel themselves as political and cultural education groups (so as to avoid the feeble attempts to regulate money in elections, and where even making public the names of donors to these groups is seen as an impingement upon free speech, well, then, the floodgates are pretty much open. Good ideas and virtuous men without money will lose elections. Money is the price of admission to a career in governance, and not just a little money, either. I predict you'll see a ten billion dollar election in the next cycle.

    I hope Chuck Todd will learn to adjust his sensitivity to these sorts of shocks, and not waste anybody's further time with stories of his horror-stricken surprise. I hope nobody lets on to Chuck that other more seriously disturbing things are afoot in our culture, like, high school girls drink beer and get into sexual situations. The news might stop his heart.

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    john.a.wills

    The Beacon cannot find the story. I wonder if Obama got to it.

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    maxwell edison

    One silly, meaningless, and nonsensical (non American).
    One ignorant (non American).
    One both hypocritical and ignorant (non American).
    One critical of the reporter for his reporting (American).
    Unknown number who read, but decided (for their own reasons) to not comment.

    I shake my head in disbelief.

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    AnsuGisalas

    That most people don't bother taking your bait? Or that some people bothered to bite, just to see if you had something worthwhile for a change?
    Actually, I just answered my own question, I guess.

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    CharlieSpencer

    I'm one of those unknown number who originally decided to not comment. My reason? You take all the fun out of your discussions.

    I don't know what your goal was in starting this topic. You expressed your outrage; were you looking for anything besides total agreement? If not, why do you expect opposing responses when you started name calling ("Kool Aide drinkers") before anyone replied?

    You denigrate the few responses you've received to date ("ignorant", "hypocritical and ignorant"). You seem to think the nationality of the responders is important, although you're well aware this is an international forum. You toss out judgmental comments ("I shake my head in disbelief."); I doubt anyone expected to get 'scored'. As to "silly, meaningless, and nonsensical", this is the Water Cooler, remember?

    What do you expect when you create such a hostile environment? Geez, it's an IT site; do you really expect effective, reasoned, researched political debate here?

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    maxwell edison

    While this is indeed an International forum, the issues I'm interested in discussing are not International issues. If you disagree, then we have a different "world view", in which case, that's where the discussion should go.

    Moreover, while it may not be offensive to hear (read) opinions from non-Americans, It's extremely offensive to be bombarded with their obvious agenda for America. I don't have an agenda for Finland, for example, and I'll be damned if I'll let some jerk from Finland try to advance his agenda on me. Again, if you see it differently, it goes to that "world view" thing.

    I'll also admit this: The time for playing nice-nice with those who are, in my opinion, advancing an agenda that will be destructive to my country and its future, is over. And I find it extremely disturbing that you choose to defend them, while you leave Lady Liberty defenseless (in these forums).

    Am I abrasive at times? You're damned right I am. Do I know it? You're damned right I do. To paraphrase some guy in a movie, I'm mad as ****, and I'm not taking it anymore. And to paraphrase one of my favorite presidents, If you can't stand the heat, get the **** out of the kitchen!

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    AnsuGisalas

    More like jerk-wad. Wanna know why?
    Because you're not on the field yourself. You attack others without true interaction, that's boring and (considering the futility of your attacks) stupid.

    Your arguments only matter to the extent that you make people care about how you feel. And you can't make people care about that without engaging them, forming a mutual respect.
    You don't get no respect because you haven't earned it.
    What you used to have, you squandered over the last year or so (maybe more) of stand-offish negativity.

    Don't be such a sourpuss. I've told you a billion times already, if the stuff you want to see here isn't here, make it yourself. That's a positive and respectable attitude.

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    CharlieSpencer

    That you get international responses? That so few people opt to enter your kitchen?

    What did you expect when you started this discussion? What was your goal?

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    maxwell edison

    I guess I'm living in some la-la land where people can actually admit they were mistaken about something or someone. ****, I've done it. But I guess I give others too much credit.

    As only one example (of many). Go back to my 2007 and 2008 discussions in which I predicted the Democratic Party nominee (HC or BO) WOULD NOT close Guantanamo Bay, even though that was a HUGE issue during the election, etc. Barack Obama PROMISED to close GB in his first year. I said, no he won't.

    I have no need whatsoever for people to pat me on the back for being right, but for Petes sake. I was criticized THEN for taking the position I was taking, and Im being criticized now for simply pointing out I was not wrong.

    Barack Obama IS NOT who people thought he was, and the idiots who would not listen to reasonable and rational arguments years ago, are in denial today.

    But go ahead. I guess I deserve all the criticism you're handing me just for pointing out the obvious.

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    CharlieSpencer

    I'm criticizing your delivery of it, especially in conjunction with your disbelief in the responses you've received (or not received). You acknowledged that some readers have reasons they didn't respond; I offered mine.

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    aidemzo_adanac

    Can you share that with your government too?

    Why would you start a rant and then complain about the input and from whom?

    To paraphrase one of your favorite presidents;
    "If you can't stand the heat, get the **** out of the kitchen!"

    Americans want to control the world around them.....as they feel unsafe of course, has nothing to do with perishing without the world around them.

    Americans expect other nations to follow what THEY feel democracy should be.

    Americans expect the world to cowtow to their political agenda and threaten war for opposers.

    And yet, US politics is nobody's business but Americas?

    When you (America) professed to be a global leader (of what I am still unsure), when American political moves effect the world around them, in a global economy, in 2013 where there are no borders, how can you possibly even hope that all you will see if Americans who agree with you, when posting in an international forum full of people who support different governmental systems?

    Give your head a shake, Max! Get real, for once.

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    aidemzo_adanac

    One, over the top, sensationalist who takes political commentary and focuses on it as fact without a slant (American)

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    drowningnotwaving

    A slolw news day?

    Seriously?

    From the nation that singlehandedly invented the modern political donation process?

    ( ... possibly by re-inventing a process tried and true for the last, what, many thousands of years across the entire world ?? )

    Seriously, what is the issue?

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    AV .

    Maybe this is how Washington has always operated, but didn't Obama campaign over and over again about how he was going to change the way things are done in Washington? That's the reason people elected him. Remember hope and change?

    Clearly, at least to me, he broke his promise and proved he is just as bad as everyone he chastised during his campaign. No, maybe he's even worse because he told everyone what they wanted to hear just to get elected.

    AV

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    JamesRL

    I've heard many campaign promises since I was old enough to pay attention to them. For me as someone within TV range of the US border, that would be from the 1976 campaign and Jimmy Carter.

    Every presidential campaigner, Republican, Democrat and Independant, says they are going to clean up Washington, reform election finance, improve bipartisan co-operation, eliminate waste, improve education and on and on.

    Of course their ability to do so is constrained by Congress. They campaign as if they can control congress, but rarely do they get so lucky. Its almost inevitable that the will not be able to control congress for more than a couple of years. And of course external events happen like ecomonic crises, wars and other events that take focus away from the agenda that is being propesed on the campaign trail. Many successful candidates get to Washington only to find out they can't do what they promised because the money simply isn't available.

    As for donations for access, it has been happening for decades, with Republicans and Democrats. And sadly, it is probably less of an issue than with PACs, not to say one excuses the other. PACs have more clout than donors who get a dinner at the White House.

    In Canada we have very strict rules about who can lobby and how. A member of the governing party was kicked out because their spouse broke the rules. In Canada only individuals can contribute to political parties or candidates, and the maxmimum is $1100 per year per party or candidate. All contributions over $200 are on the public record. Companies, action committees, or lobby groups are not allowed to contribute anything.

    If you want to reform politics in the US, reforming campaign finances has to be holisitic. Pointing fingers at one area while ignoring another won't fix anything. If you stop white house dinners, you simply shift more money to PACs.

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    CharlieSpencer

    I've long thought the only people who should be allowed to contribute to a campaign are the registered voters of the district / state / region under contention. The laws you describe are close enough, though. If only it weren't so dang cold up there :-)

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    aidemzo_adanac

    I have been out on the porch with a cold beer and steaks on the BBQ. A stunning sunset (as we often see on the West coast), while watching the news in America about massive snow storms, ice and hail, tornadoes you name it, YUCK!
    The rest of Canada, as is to be expected, feet of snow, cold fronts blowing through etc. Central and Eastern Canada get weather extremes. Extremely hot and humind summer and extreme cold and snow in winter, not here. We dip below zero a few times in Winter (mainly at night) and it rains a lot on winter but we have it made for weather overall, wouldn't trade it for anything.

    I wore a polo shirt on calls today, it's just short of 60F here today, should be over 62F on the weekend. Sun is blazing through the office windows now, I was on the porch watching windsurfers and sail boats in English Bay and was camping last weekend.

    http://www.westinbayshore.com/cam/
    http://bluemist.net/
    http://www.katkam.ca/

    Sorry, had to do it.

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    CharlieSpencer

    but apparently there's a 30-day delay on the Internet :-)

    Oh, and Max hasn't been seen since this discussion. Don't hold your breath waiting on him.

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    aidemzo_adanac

    Unless underwater. I've been a sales rep for far too long to wait for people or expect them to be around, even when they absolutely promise they will be.
    In my world, people can't be trusted at all, it's all taken with a grain of salt when someone says they'll get back to you, they'll be around at a certain time etc.

    I don't expect anything from people any more. I think that mankind, in general, is a complete joke and becomes more and more irresponsible by the minute, as standards are lowered to the basement, I'd take a dog over people any day of the week.

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    aidemzo_adanac

    Was one of the web cams showing an old image or something or was it an outdated weather report you were referring to?

    This is today, not a cloud in the sky and too warm for a jacket.
    http://www.katkam.ca/

    My office is just across the other side of the vridge in the foreground, so I look at the mountains (behind the camera). Time is at a complete standstill on days like today, work is a 24 hour event...at least, and minutes are like hours as I wait, with my truck packed and ready downstairs. 4:30 is such a long way away, so I can head up the coast for some camping.

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    CharlieSpencer

    this discussion being almost a month old before you discovered it.

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    aidemzo_adanac

    I don't TR like I used to. I just decided to check off topic discussions for something I hadn't seen and ran across this one. Oh well, I get to ***** and moan and nobody is there to argue with me, that works too.

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    AV .

    But Obama takes the cake. His whole campaign was about hope and change and how he was going to change Washington. Sure, his predecessors all promised the same thing, but not to the same degree that Obama did. He was adamant about it. That was his appeal. To me, Hillary should have beaten him handily.

    Our Congress is a total disgrace. Both sides work against each other and neither side seems to care how their dog and pony show affects the American people. I do understand the argument. We have to stop spending money we don't have, but Obama, the man who is supposed to lead, isn't doing anything to make things work. He is taking his argument to the people instead and making sure that any cuts will hurt, just to make his point. I can't believe we can't cut the size of government without compromising our security or laying of thousands of people. I think its grandstanding on Obama's part, just to make his point and defend his big government agenda.

    Obama may not like what Republicans have to say but, the sequester was his idea to begin with and there are things that could be cut that wouldn't affect anything critical. Obama will not even consider trying to soften the ****, however. Its his way or the highway.

    You have the right idea in Canada. Plain and simple. I don't understand why we can't do something like that here.

    AV

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    aidemzo_adanac

    Canada has a commie socialist government that carries people from womb to tomb. Unlike free, democratic nations, such as the USA, we have problems with people unfairly collecting welfare!!! A portion of my taxes and medical premiums are given to OTHER PEOPLE, who didn't earn it themselves, just so they can get treatment!!! (I know, how dare they suggest I help countrymen with my tax dollars and premiums!).

    Of course there's also the fact that it's really cold here, if it wasn't for the sunshine and cloudless skies this past weekend, people may have realized it was only 68F !! Brrrrrr, snowy Canada!

    Then of course there are the people! People come here from all over (I am guessing because they want to make it to the USA, as per the general consensus that everyone wants to live there). When they are here, they aren't even expected to assimilate our culture and language!!!! THOSE people get to come here and not be shunned for their religious upbringing, their clothes, foods and society. Ghastly, truly ghastly.

    And THEN there's the Canadian government. Like no other nation on Earth, our unique, soclialst government seems to have hidden agenda's (I KNOW!!) . They take tax money from people who work hard, and they use it for purposes of their own means, saying it in the public's best interests. Now I understand that is what the definition of government actually is but COME ON ALREADY!! Why can't I just keep my money and say screw it to everyone else who wants some. "I'm sick and I need help" oh WAAAAA, not my problem after all.

    No, you don't want America to run like Canada. We are far too sated and reserved in our ways. We spend way too much time ignoring the government's every move and getting on with our lives as if government didn't exist. We don't even FEAR other Canadians here. We don't carry guns to protect innocent people who may be accosted, we don't have a personal arsenal for protecting our families (that's right we don't even prepare to protect our FAMILIES here. ) we can't play John Wayne in the mall with our CCW permits, NOTHING I TELL YOU!
    We don't even fear our government, can you believe such idiocy?!

    When it comes to other nations around the globe, nobody can be bothered with us. They just think we are a happy, passive nation. We've been paramount in protecting allied forces for many decades, we have soldiers at war and have successfully completed missions that have saved thousands of allied lives, why don't the bad countries see US as a target, see US as warriors, it's just not FAIR!!! Nobody wants to kills us, why not? what haven't we done to deserve being left alone?

    Nah, you don' t want to live like we do, and please pass the word around, DON'T GO TO CANADA. "There's nothing to see here folks, just keep moving along"

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    aidemzo_adanac

    Of course they do, that's the definition of politician.

    Obama's promise to change the way things were done in Washington, probably wasn't focused too much on the specifics behind campaign fundraising, more than just the political system itself.

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    maxwell edison

    http :// www.businessinsider.com/bob-woodward-obama-sequester-white-house-reporting-price-politics-2013-2

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    neilb@uk

    Just because he's half of Woodstein and he's been in a movie played by Robert Redford doesn't mean he doesn't talk crap, sometimes.

    I thought you wanted your government to stop wasting money so what's wrong with NOT deploying aircraft carriers? And, as for "Or George W. Bush saying, 'You know, I'm not going to invade Iraq because I can't get the aircraft carriers I need?'", what was ever wrong with George W saying "You know, I'm not going to invade Iraq because it has sod-all to do with 911 and it would be stupid and a waste of money and it will take us years to get out.",

    Edited to add: And the follow up seems to sort of put this (non-)story away. http://www.businessinsider.com/bob-woodward-gene-sperling-white-house-obama-threat-sequester-2013-2

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    maxwell edison

    You see anything else.

    Nixonian behavior is unacceptable - end of story.

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    aidemzo_adanac

    Why because that is YOUR belief and others are not allowed ot feel differently?
    For someone who spends all his time spouting the base premise of Liberty and freedom, something nobody living outside of America could possibly conceive, you certainly take the stand of a dictator a lot.

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    aidemzo_adanac

    Saying "you will regret this", is not a threat at all. If a kid wants an extra scoop of ice cream and his mom knows it will make him sick, is she "threatening him" by saying he's regret eating another bowl? No, not by any stretch of the imagination.

    If you want to buy a new car and it will clean out your account, are you being threatened when your friend says "don't buy it, you will regret it!"
    No.

    But when a newsie shoots his mouth off, then takes a single sentence from an emailed reply and focuses on it, almost surely out of context too, it is now a threat.
    NO

    God man, get a grip already! When people focused on single comments, taken out of context, toward the great George W. Bush , you instantly dismissed it as typical left leaning BS. However when the same is done toward a NEWSIE, of all people, it's a call to arms. Americans should stand up and not take such slanderous threats lightly. They should feel bad for exercising their freedom to vote for whom they believe in and for making such choices based on their personal feelings. They were wrong and you were right and they should feel ashamed for not following your lead or seeing the same side of the campaign that you supported.

    Get real. You ever so proudly live in America, what you actually believe to be the mightiest and greatest nation on the planet. You will fight to your death to support the right for YOUR freedom to make your own choices, it's the cornerstone of American society after all.

    However, you are so quick to condemn others for exercising their freedom to make THEIR choices.

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    aidemzo_adanac

    How much ACCESS to controlling the USA do you feel they would actually get?

    You can contact your local MLA for free, so a President uses a "backstage meet and greet opportunity" to raise funds, I'm sure there have been worse fund raising scenarios over the years from both sides too.

    US presidents charge for public appearances, don't they? I know they sure cash in that way after their term.

    TR sometimes invites a select few to chime in on site changes, gather ideas etc. That doesn't mean that those users then have ANY control ,in any sense of the word, over what TR does. Are you not just pissed that it wasn't a Republican president and you could afford to chime in with him?

    What issue does it raise with you?
    Security hole?
    Poor fundraising methods?
    Control of the president's decisions?

    Sorry, I just don't get what the issue is.