It’s here. You’ve heard the buzz. Now, all you have to do is figure out how to install it. On March 2nd Erik Eckel, who had been studying Windows 2000, helped TechProGuild members get through the setup. If you couldn’t join us then, enjoy the transcript and we hope to see you on our next live Guild Meeting. You can find a schedule of Guild Meetings in your weekly TechProGuild Notes TechMail, or on the Guild Meeting calendar.

It’s here. You’ve heard the buzz. Now, all you have to do is figure out how to install it. On March 2nd Erik Eckel, who had been studying Windows 2000, helped TechProGuild members get through the setup. If you couldn’t join us then, enjoy the transcript and we hope to see you on our next live Guild Meeting. You can find a schedule of Guild Meetings in your weekly TechProGuild Notes TechMail, or on the Guild Meeting calendar.

Note: TechProGuild edits Guild Meeting transcripts for clarity.

Welcome to the meeting
MODERATOR: Welcome to this evening’s Guild Meeting. Tonight, our own Erik Eckel joins us to talk about installing Windows 2000.

ERIK ECKEL: Welcome! Tonight’s topic, of course, is Windows 2000 setup and installation. Are there any questions out there with which you’d like us to begin?

ZOP: Once again I contend that the flood settings on the IRC gateway are a little, Nazi-ish.

ERIK ECKEL: I’ve had the pleasure of installing Windows 2000 Professional, Server and Advanced Servers.

ZOP: I’m using the BuyPogo Athlon I got.

ERIK ECKEL: Both as an upgrade and as fresh installs.

ZOP: While beggars can’t be choosers I’d like to have gotten the CD-ROM/Docs for the Sound card and mobo (but I did win it so I’m not really complaining. :).

MODERATOR: Good thing Zop.

ZOP: It’s lots faster than the tired old desktop too. Refrains from using the colon as it messes with the E-Speak IRC Gateway.

ERIK ECKEL: It’ll be really powerful once you load Win2K on it.

ZOP: It took me most of this week to get drivers (took me 3 days to figure out what the card was exactly) for Win98.

WELL: What are the requirements to install?

What does it require?
ERIK ECKEL: I always say Win9x. It’s easier that way. Which version, Zop?

ZOP: Doesn’t have win2k and will never have it either.

THEWRITERGUY: What are the reqs to install 2K?

ERIK ECKEL: Which version, writerguy?

MIKKILUSA: 133-boat load of RAM and biggest HD you can buy?

ERIK ECKEL: Who can tell me how many methods exist for installing Win2K?


WELL: Any input?



ZOP: eeckel: Which version of what?

MIKKILUSA: MS way, the right way, and the wrong way?

ERIK ECKEL: Installation from a compact disc.

WELL: What precaution step? Is it same as Win98 installation? Just click setup, select typical?

ZOP: Make sure if you’re installing W98 next to Linux you’re ready to get LILO back onto the system.

ERIK ECKEL: Installation from a compact disc. Installation over a network.

ZOP: Oddly enough like 5 is the same as RH6.1 CD. 🙂

ERIK ECKEL: Automated installation using the Windows 2000 Setup Manager Wizard. Automated installation using Disk Duplication.

ZOP: Oh. You count install over network. I don’t.

ERIK ECKEL: Installations using Remote Installation Services.

ZOP: I count 5 totally different installs that end up with different installations.

ERIK ECKEL: Which version of Windows 2000?

WELL: That simple.

Can you dual boot?
PCAMPANARO: Can you dual boot?

WELL: Got many versions for Win2000?

HUEVOS: How much control with the setup wizard?

ZOP: None.

ERIK ECKEL: Yes, you can dual boot.

ZOP: I refuse to run the thing on my machines. 🙂

WELL: Is it the version for WinNT ver 5?

ERIK ECKEL: Why wouldn’t you count installing over a network?

ZOP: I’ve had the experience of installing at consultancies and whatnot for clients, but I don’t plan on running it here.

ERIK ECKEL: Versions are: Windows 2000 Pro, Server, Advanced Server, Datacenter Server.

WELL: Any input from our speaker?

ZOP: Because that’s what I normally do for Linux (My view is Linux-centric so please excuse me).

ERIK ECKEL: Input on, ah, what? Linux is not allowed here. It’s Windows month!

WELL: What are the requirements for Win2000?

ERIK ECKEL: Well, which version, as they’re all different?

WELL: You do not see any previous message post by me? List down the version please.

HUEVOS: How quick/stable is Win2k? Any version?

ZOP: Then I’ll have to leave because I’m running a Linux firewall/server (which I need to poke into the hardware anyway heh—16 MB isn’t enough and I’ve got another 16 or 32 MB sitting here on the desk somewhere heh).

What’s not to understand?
ERIK ECKEL: Well, yes, but I didn’t understand. You asked about requirements, then any input? Win2K Pro Requirements:

ZOP: The one thing I’d like to see in Win is better power management. I haven’t done tests on 2k but in 95 and 98 the idle loop is very busy and when truly idle, the machine doesn’t make APM CPU Idle calls enough for the CPU to be idled down and save power (and emit less heat).

ERIK ECKEL: P133, 650 MB on 2 GB or bigger partition, 64 MB RAM, 12x or better CD-ROM,  VGA or better. Win2K Server:

ZOP: (or asp) or some such has a little program to check and report if the system is Win2k ready. I’ll get the exact URL.

WELL: How to install?

HUEVOS: What are you running it on?

ERIK ECKEL: P133 (supports 4), 1 GB free on 2 GB or larger disk, 128 MB RAM, 12X or better CD-ROM, VGA or better. Win2K Advanced Server Requirements:

WELL: Normal PC.

ZOP: I do like the Linuxism in ’98 of double-clicking on a taskbar button to minimize the program.

MIKKILUSA: Also there is a program on the Microsoft site that will tell you if your software is compatible.

ZOP: Eckel: And Linux has systems running with 8. Though SMP is still flake-ish because the industry isn’t giving much help.

ERIK ECKEL: P133 or higher (scales to 8), 1 GB free on 2 GB or larger drive, 128 MB RAM, 12 X CD-ROM, VGA or better.

SHARI: Do you recommend upgrade from 98 or 95 to 2000, OR uninstall and dual reboot?

WELL: The high requirement probably is the RAM.

ERIK ECKEL: Closed the wrong window, there. Sorry.

THEWRITERGUY: Shari: for business or personal machine?

ERIK ECKEL: Fire through the questions again after requirements, as I lost them with the old window.

SHARI: Business.

ERIK ECKEL: I’ve run Windows 2000 Pro on laptops and a P350, with 64 and 128 MB RAM. Run it with as much RAM as ya got.

ZOP: In theory Linux could do uhm 200 some odd procs, but in practice anything more than 8 is too much because of BUS and RAM contention.  Even at 8 you should have at least 1 GB of RAM in 4 modules to provide for decent interleave.

ERIK ECKEL: I’ve run the server platforms on P500s with 64 MB RAM, in test environments.

WELL: How to install?

ERIK ECKEL: You definitely want at least 128 MB of RAM, probably 256 for production servers.

WELL: Just simple as win98?

ZOP: And that 1 GB figure goes with Win and *NIX—just kind of nuts to run that many procs if you have less RAM (but then again if you have that many procs and need them you probably have and need that much RAM).

MIKKILUSA: MS says 64?

ERIK ECKEL: Independent tests haven’t been completed yet, but I expect Enterprise Server will scale and cluster quite effectively.

HUEVOS: Has anyone tried it on machine near min. requirements?  How slow was it?

Why so slow?
ERIK ECKEL: The install is easier than with Win9x. 64 MB for Win2K Pro.

THEWRITERGUY: Shari: I’ve heard it’s best to WAIT… stick with 98 for the time.

MIKKILUSA: In a company to go out buy a buncha RAM to install an OSs a killer?

WELL: Any problem during installation>.

ERIK ECKEL: Installation technique depends upon many factors. No problems during installation.

SHARI: That was my thought too… but.

ERIK ECKEL: In fact, Win2K Pro beat the pants of Corel Linux in a recent test I conducted.

WELL: Is it good to upgrade Win98 to Win2k?

ERIK ECKEL: Corel couldn’t find the sound card, the NIC, and more.


ERIK ECKEL: Win2K Prop plugged and played perfectly.

SHARI: When I am ready should I buy the upgrade or,

ZOP: That’s the MS WWW Page for requirements and the download proggies. Espeak ate the colon though.

ERIK ECKEL: My Win2K Pro upgrades from Win9x proceeded perfectly. I enjoy the options in Win2K over Win9x.

SHARI: Buy the full version, save the current OS to a file, and boot from the CD.

MIKKILUSA: Does Win2k support USB?

WELL: Any bug?

ERIK ECKEL: Personally, I bought the upgrade for my personal machine, as any licensed Win98 product qualifies. Yes, all Win2K platforms support USB.

WELL: Any benefits?

ERIK ECKEL: Many, many benefits.

There are many benefits and advantages
HUEVOS: What advantages are there to Win2000 over NT WS 4.0?

ERIK ECKEL: Improved security, network communications, improved interface, etc.

WELL: What disadvantages? Win2K Pro does require more system resources. I wouldn’t run it on anything less than a P350 with 128 MB of RAM. I say that, but I’ve got it on a P100 with 32 MB of RAM, and it works fine (albeit slowly).

WELL: That’s fine, got any bug for the software?

ERIK ECKEL: I’ve found only one bug, to date. I’ve been using Windows 2000 platforms since Sep 99.

WELL: Just as previous version, not stable, too many illegal operation, how about Win2k?

ZOP: OK, I’ve got an Inter@ctive week here with an article on MS playing dirty pool with Kerberos.

ERIK ECKEL: Win2K hasn’t crashed ever, in my experience.

DARK_EVIL: I thought it was documented that Windows 2000 had 65000 known bugs?

ERIK ECKEL: It’s gotten confused, but recovered.

ZOP: According to the article extensions and changes have been made to Kerb. That keeps it from running with the normal clients that are already out there.

ERIK ECKEL: See our article on the 65K-bug thing. All software has bugs. Take Corel Linux, for example.

MIKKILUSA: 65002 jlwallen found 2 more.

ERIK ECKEL: I’ll buy jwallen lunch if he can get the sound card to work on my Compaq with Corel Linux.

WELL: Where?

ERIK ECKEL: Win2K got it working in no time.

Here’s the scoop
ZOP: So you got any idea what the scoop is for the Kerberos?

ERIK ECKEL: It’s very much an added benefit to have P-n-P working with the NT kernel.

ZOP: eeckel: Corel Linux is unanimously the WORST Linux Distro.

ERIK ECKEL: Kerberos version 5? What’s the claim?

WELL: The kernel work like winnt ver4?

HUEVOS: So Win2000 worked well integrating peripherals? Any older ones?

DARK_EVIL: Man I’ve tried Corel Linux and purposely tried to crash and corrupt it… with no luck.

ERIK ECKEL: Yes, I’ve used Win2K with old and new hardware. No problems.

ZOP: Because like I said, according to the article, MS has broken it for everything but use with Win2K-enabled systems, and by running it at standard prots that blocks using 3rd party stuff as well.

ERIK ECKEL: I couldn’t get Corel Linux to work. I tried on two machines repeatedly. Win2K fired right up. Its setup program is quite advanced.

DARK_EVIL: I’ve powered the system up and down numerous times, and it boots every time. Left running for 2 weeks, no problems.

ZOP: Corel Linux has poor install support, poor hardware support, poor everything.

DARK_EVIL: Try that with Windows, you get corrupted files.

ZOP: eeckel: Most people can’t get Corel Linux to work (I had problems and I’m at least as skilled as our good Jack Wallen).

MKKING: When I shut down Win2k, I can’t shut if off by the power button in front, got to use the power switch at back to shut off , any suggestions?

ERIK ECKEL: My understanding is one of the reasons a standards-based protocol was used by Microsoft was to permit interoperability with other OSs.

DARK_EVIL: Easier to install than win98… so why need install support?

Support is always helpful
ZOP: Press and hold the power button for 5 sec or more. It causes the ATX Mobo to shutdown the comp anyway.

ERIK ECKEL: I’ve had the same problem with shutting Win2K down on one machine. My problem there is with the actual PC. Just wait until it reboots, and turn it off while the PC is testing its RAM.

MIKKILUSA: I saw in TechNet and MS site too that you might need to upgrade your BIOS too?

ERIK ECKEL: Could be, regarding updating the BIOS. But, I haven’t had to on, oh, eight computers.

ZOP: Now that’s STUPID.

MKKING: Will try that , don’t have a Win2k install at the moment, overwrote it, thanks.

ZOP: Needing to upgrade your BIOS to run an OS. Especially an ‘advanced’ one like Win2k.

ERIK ECKEL: Zop, I haven’t had to.

MIKKILUSA: It’s in the upgrade stuff on the site.

WELL: About shutdown problem, Win98 also same, what’s the cause?

ERIK ECKEL: I haven’t had an opportunity to extensively test Kerberos with other OSs, such as Novell. But, my understanding, as I stated earlier, is Microsoft intended to permit interoperability with other OSs.

MIKKILUSA: BIOS refers mostly to power management, might be the shutdown prob?

SHARI: ZOP does that press and hold for 5 sec work with Win98? I have a user who has trouble powering down each night and I can’t figure out why.

ERIK ECKEL: Well, it sounds like a hardware issue. One of my machines simply won’t power down. It always restarts. I just kill it again when it’s testing its RAM, and all is well.

WELL: What kind of hardware problems?

HUEVOS: Win98 has lots of power down problems. MS has fix for W98 SE.

ERIK ECKEL: Something in your BIOS or motherboard. I’d have to defer to an A+ or Net+ colleague.

HUEVOS: We are still trying to nail our shutdown problem.

SHARI: Huevos, I need to download a patch?

MKKING: Win2k was the only OS I had that problem on , not NT 4.0, 95 or 98.

ERIK ECKEL: Also, Win2K provides support for FAT32. That’s new for an NT kernel OS.

HUEVOS: -Shari yes. It is only a start though.

ERIK ECKEL: You still get your choice of two licensing modes (By server or by seat. But now you must determine a namespace, too.)

SHARI: Thanks! I’ll be a hero at work tomorrow! : )

ERIK ECKEL: Thus, I recommend that, before you install the OS, you review a quick checklist.

HUEVOS: I believe pc911 has FAQ on troubleshooting shutdown problems.

MIKKILUSA: OK on licensing if you have Win9x do you need to only buy upgrade edition?

WELL: At which Web site?

SHARI: Is pc911 a Web site?

ZOP: eeckel: I don’t understand *WHY* they would need to modify Kerberos at all.

ERIK ECKEL: Yes, Win98 qualifies as an upgrade for Windows 2000 Professional.

WELL: Win95 seem don’t have problems?


ERIK ECKEL: I believe you get a $70 rebate if you’ve got an old WinNT Workstation license.

DARK_EVIL: It provides support for fat32?

Two out of three aren’t bad
ZOP: Shari: It works with 99% of all ATX Mobos (hold the power button in to get it to shutdown if it won’t go normally).

ERIK ECKEL: I believe Microsoft has shown a preference for “modifying” protocols in the past.

DARK_EVIL: I thought it used NTFS, which isn’t compatible with the FAT system?

ERIK ECKEL: I’m not familiar with proprietary changes being made to Kerberos, so I’d have to defer to another authority there. All I know is Kerberos is installed automatically when using AD.

ZOP: Problem is, when Win98 was first released APM and AMI (the stuff that ATX uses on the software side and part hardware side) to do the shutdowns weren’t really completed nor well tested.

ERIK ECKEL: Dark_EviL: Win2K Pro supports FAT, FAT32 and NTFS. While the two aren’t compatible, it’ll work with either.

ZOP: eeckel: That’s OK…. I’ve just barely heard about it myself from this ONE article. I’m going to try to look it up later.

DARK_EVIL: Do you have to reinstall?

MIKKILUSA: Does Win2k handle DOS the same way as NT4.0?

ERIK ECKEL: Reinstall to do what, Mr. Dark_EviL?

DARK_EVIL: Reinstall to use the FAT system….

ERIK ECKEL: mikkilusa: Win2K uses the NT kernel. Windows ME will use DOS. There are still command line controls for every command in Win2K, though. In case you like that type of thing.

DARK_EVIL: I mean if they aren’t compatible, how do they utilize one another?

ZOP: eeckel: ME? Embedded Edition err what? Not familiar with that.

ERIK ECKEL: No, you could just install Win2K on a FAT partition. But then you couldn’t use EFS, Active Directory, etc.

What about Active Directory?
ZOP: DArk_Evil: Win2K runs multiple filesystem drivers.

MIKKILUSA: ME will sit on DOS like all other MS homeowner products.

HUEVOS: What is Active Directory?

DARK_EVIL: I see now.

ERIK ECKEL: The advanced features in Windows 2000, like file-level security and directory services, require NTFS.

ZOP: huevos: MS crappy stab at NDS.

WELL: Huevos, can you let us know which Web sites have the patch file for Win98?

DARK_EVIL: Do you have to switch between these partitions?

HUEVOS: –Shari shutdown problem–>

ERIK ECKEL: If NDS were so good, I’m inclined to think Novell’s sales wouldn’t be sucking wind.

ZOP: SDame as in NT4.0/3.51—have to have NTFS for that stuff.

MIKKILUSA: He can but I found it as well so will charge a small fee.

HUEVOS: It should be a critical update for Win98 on MS Web site.

ZOP: Dark_Evil: No, 2k detects all of them and pulls them all up no prob.

ERIK ECKEL: No, Dark_Evil, you’d just have the OS  installed on a FAT partition.


SHARI: Got it huevos! Thanks! I’ll check it out after the meeting.

ERIK ECKEL: Unattended installations are improved.

HUEVOS: PC911 good all around help site.

ERIK ECKEL: A new wizard helps eliminate keystroke errors and the like.

WELL: win2k using NTFS partition?

ZOP: Would turn that off.

Your significant other
ERIK ECKEL: Also, there’s significant new support for using disk duplication techniques and programs, such as those published by PowerQuest and Norton.

ZOP: I’ve shown that those ‘keystroke’ error elimination programs are more of a pain than a help. ZOP, could be. I haven’t tried the method, as I believe disk duplication is the much better route to travel.

MIKKILUSA: How about CDRW support and back up, better or same as NT, eeckel?

HUEVOS: Disk duplication can be a huge time saver.

ERIK ECKEL: CDRW support is about the same, it may be better, but I know a greater number of CD-ROMs are supported than CDRWs.

ASLAN: The wizard seems to work just fine. But I have only used it once so far.

WELL: No more illegal operation for Win2k?

ERIK ECKEL: Backup options are improved, too, as the interface is improved and devices such as Zip drives are now supported, too. Disk duplication is from the heavens!

WELL: Huevos, got any way to solve Win9x illegal operation problem?

ERIK ECKEL: I haven’t seen any illegal operations.

ASLAN: True on disk dup it is the fastest way to go.

ERIK ECKEL: I’ve had programs go bad, and lost all my icons for three or four seconds, but they always come back with Windows operating normally, and the offending program shut down.

HUEVOS: What kind of illegal operations?

ERIK ECKEL: No one ever asked about my bug. I kept waiting…

ZOP: What?

ERIK ECKEL: I’m back. Got kicked out.

ZOP: eeckel: Agreed. For ’95OSR2 I setup a bootable CD that partitions, formats, and installs 95OSR2 for all of the systems I sell. What bug?

ERIK ECKEL: Oh yes. My bug.

Quit bugging me!
MODERATOR: Here’s everyone’s 5-min warning.

ERIK ECKEL: I boot Windows 2000, and I have to wait approximately 45 seconds after everything appears to hit for the “X” to disappear from my Norton icon in the system tray, and I have to wait the same amount of time for a VPN shortcut to become operational. As long as I wait 45 seconds after boot, everything’s fine. Now, this was an upgrade, so I’m not sure it’s epidemic. But, it’s something to watch for. Let’s go around the old chat room and ensure everyone’s had their questions answered. Any more Win2K installation questions out there? Speak now or forever hold your peace.

HUEVOS: None here.

MIKKILUSA: Your best sales pitch for why install to Win2k?

SHARI: I would still like to know if it’s better to get the upgrade or the full version.


SHARI: I have been told the upgrades are not clean installs and have more chances for bugs.

ERIK ECKEL: Upgrade is cheaper, and if you have a qualifying program (Win98 or WinNT Workstation), there’s no since buying the full version.

ZOP: Probably like WinNT4.0.

SHARI: Money the only issue?

ZOP: If I logon immediately after it starts none of my networking works and I get errors throughout my session.

MIKKILUSA: So upgrade will install from a clean HD then ?

ERIK ECKEL: Install W2K because it increases administrative efficiencies, it’s more secure, it boasts greater ease of use, it’s more scaleable, it’s more reliable and it supports more hardware.

ASLAN: If you have to reformat do you have to install 98 again before reinstalling W2k?

ERIK ECKEL: I’ve had no troubles with the upgrade. It works just like a full version, except you’re asked to place the qualifying CD-ROM in the CD-ROM drive to ensure you’re qualified to use the upgrade.

HUEVOS: Zop how do you get around networking problem?

ERIK ECKEL: Zop, I’d wait about 45 seconds before trying those network connections! Why was I kicked out of the session? I don’t know! I’m using Win98, right now, for the record.

ASLAN: OK, like 98 upgrade, thanks.

HUEVOS: What about in the case of a Novell network client that pops up 1st thing?

ERIK ECKEL: Upgrade will install from a clean HD, yes. But, you’ll be asked to place the qualifying program in the CD-ROM so the Win2K Setup program can check it. No, you don’t have to reinstall W98.

ASLAN: I just read about that huevos, wait!

HUEVOS: So do we have to wait 4 seconds before logging on? Really?

Come back real soon
ERIK ECKEL: Huevos, I’ve found my VPN connection doesn’t work unless I wait approximately 45 seconds. I haven’t had a chance to check out why, yet.

MODERATOR: Shari; I’ll mail it tomorrow.

HUEVOS: Thanks for the warning.

ERIK ECKEL: Should any other questions come up, feel free to e-mail, and I’ll be sure to get back to you!

MODERATOR: That’s about all the time we have for tonight. I’d like to thank our speaker, Erik, and all of you for joining us.

ERIK ECKEL: Thank you everyone, I appreciate your coming out and visiting with us tonight! Now, go load up Win2K!
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