1 Finish Profile

1? 2? 3? There Goes Another

Locked

In the world today, on each and every day of each and every year, a child starves to death or dies from hunger related diseases every three seconds. 1… 2? 3? there goes one. 1? 2? 3? and another 1? 2? 3? and another 1… .2? 3? one more???.

And what is the response of our government, the ?Christian values? people in power in America? The silence is deafening isn?t it.

1?2?3? another child 1?2?3? and another. While the ?Christian family values? Republicans plough hundreds of billions to the wealthiest Americans, while they pour hundreds of billions into Iraq, and hundreds more into our war machine, remember – 1? 2 ? 3? there goes another.

While the ?Christian? right fights against birth control, reproductive choice and AIDS vaccines; while it wastes our time and money on futile attempts to outlaw all things sexual outside of marriage between one man and one woman; while it rails against homosexuality and vilifies its opponents, remember – 1? 2? 3? another child gone.

While Republican supporters twist all logic in a vain attempt to be both Christian and free-market capitalists, remember – 1 ? 2 ? 3, another child dies

The farcical tragedy of America?s ?Christian family values? Republicans and ?Christian? right is that they are even less Christian than I am. 1? 2? 3? 1? 2? 3??………………. ?????????????????????????????????????.

Topic

So what’s you point

In reply to 1? 2? 3? There Goes Another

Where are these starving children?
Why is the US responsible for fixing the problem?
Why can’t their own governments fix the problem?
Why aren’t you there feeding the starving children?
How can we get food to these starving chidlren when warlords are killing relief workers?
Why are children starving while their own governments spend millions of their own war machine?
Don’t countries with starving children also have many wealthy citizens?
And to paraphrase Sam Kineson:
“They live in a freaking desert! Why don’t they move? Nothing grows in the desert! We have a desert, we don’t live there! Move!”

Poor Sam

In reply to So what’s you point

–Where are these starving children?–

This is irrelevant to my post.

–Why is the US responsible for fixing the problem?–

Why not? Are we, or are we not, a Christian nation? According to our current right wing leadership, we are a Christian nation. Where?s the follow through? Or is Jesus just a convenient icon to drag up for votes?

–Why can’t their own governments fix the problem?–

Good question. No doubt some children who are starving to death and dying of hunger related diseases would survive if their local ?governments? were better. But overall, the lack of resources undercuts many well meaning governments. Jesus? call for love, tolerance and charity cannot be satisfied with finger pointing at governments overseas.

–Why aren’t you there feeding the starving children?–

This is irrelevant to my post. What I do or don?t do; what you do or don?t do; none of this one on one finger pointing addresses the hypocrisy and un-Christian behavior of the so-called Christian right and so-called compassionate conservatives.

–How can we get food to these starving children when warlords are killing relief workers?
Why are children starving while their own governments spend millions of their own war machine?
Don’t countries with starving children also have many wealthy citizens?–

Three questions — probably three more children gone. Please see above.

–And to paraphrase Sam Kineson:
“They live in a freaking desert! Why don’t they move? Nothing grows in the desert! We have a desert, we don’t live there! Move!”–

Would that they could. Perhaps the “Christian? and ?Islamic? nations, along with their leading loudmouth moralists, who are so good at lecturing the rest of us, will open their doors. Poor Sam ? he did have a way of cutting to the point.

You speak

In reply to Poor Sam

yet say nothing.

Actually, I think he told us all we need to know

In reply to You speak

He told us that he has done nothing about the problem that he pretends to care about, and that people who are actually doing something about the problem are hypocrites, either because they aren’t doing enough or they aren’t going about it the way he thinks they should. No there’s someone who understands hypocrisy first hand.

He says that the United States should fix the problems in the rest of the world. “Why not? Are we, or are we not, a Christian nation? According to our current right wing leadership, we are a Christian nation. Where?s the follow through?” He apparently isn’t aware that corrupt or totalitarian governments might object. But I’m sure he’ll be at the head of the line to enlist to enforce our will on the rest of the planet. Right?

He told us that he loves starving children because they are an excuse to call people names because they don’t agree with him.

Huh?

In reply to Actually, I think he told us all we need to know

Wrong on all points. Care to try again?

epw@

In reply to Huh?

BEWARE, brave Captain. Here in the darkest depths of the Sea of Lament dwell the most horrible monsters of all, the fearsome murky demons of the deep will swallow you whole the instant you leave this pool of light. Heed my warning, or take one step forward and learn for yourself…

You don’t speak

In reply to You speak

yet you reveal everything.

You’ve just locked an open door… strange, yet symbolically compelling

In reply to You don’t speak

NT

Look around you pew

In reply to You don’t speak

I HAVE spoken….

Extremism hurts everyone

In reply to 1? 2? 3? There Goes Another

The “Christian family values” you describe are just another form of religious extremism, with the same consequenses. They may not send suicide bombers but by imposing their will on others, the results are the same.

By protesting sex education is schools, they are increasing the problem of teen pregnancy. While abstinance does prevent unwanted births and STDs, how in the world can a teen make an informed choice with no knowledge of what the consequences are.

It has been many years since I gave up on organized religion. The final straw was when the upright Church ladies chatised my freind’s mother for allowing her daughter to go to church ‘looking like that’. This friend had been in the hospital for several months battling a serious illness and did not look so great but she should have been welcomed and embraced for finding the courage to go.

My children have been raised to respect others but other than weddings and funerals have not attended formal services. They are better for it.

Scratch a Religious Extremist. . .

In reply to Extremism hurts everyone

find a Taliban zealot — different rhetoric but the same narrow bigotry and intolerance.

Thanks so much for your courageous stand against religious extremism. Whenever they gain the secular power to do so, religious zealots will always try oppressing the rest of us. They never have and never will live up to the laws they claim to believe in. There’s always an excuse, some direct communiqu? from the almighty that they use as a loophole for themselves. Alas, they are all too human. However, unlike the rest of us, they can’t accept this simple truth and choose to hide behind a cheesecloth of bogus “faith” and self-proclaimed direct knowledge of the god of their choosing.

Live and let live is too dangerous a code for them. They?d have to learn how to live with people as they are, not how they think they should be. They?d have to learn how to deal with the world as it is, not with a tragic fantasy about paradise on earth.

Religious Zealots is one thing

In reply to Scratch a Religious Extremist. . .

yet you have taken it upon yourself to openly attack all of Christianity?

Of course, in turn you have insulted the Democrats, by implying that the only people that are christians are Republicans.

Wrong again jd

In reply to Religious Zealots is one thing

–yet you have taken it upon yourself to openly attack all of Christianity?–

Wrong again jd. I’m attacking hypocrites who are using Christians to gain and hold political power.

–Of course, in turn you have insulted the Democrats, by implying that the only people that are christians are Republicans.–

No, I’m implying that the Republicans are being led by hypocrites who wear “Christianity” on their sleeves so they can pull it out and show it off whenever they want to fool the real Christians who support them. What I can’t understand is why the American Christian community is sitting still for this hijacking of their faith.

That is NOT what you have been going on about

In reply to Wrong again jd

You are not providing a single arguement of how people “who wear Christianity on their sleeves” are not being Christian.

Every group can only do so much. There are many problems here in America (many caused directly by Democrats policies) that are valid causes.

You have intentionally made it sound that just because ruthless dictators and warlords are restricting food and aid to uneducated people that are making the CHOICE to bring kids into a world of starvation, that it is somehow the job of all Christians to topple the corrupt governments and feed the children of these abusive parents.

I do things for LOCAL charities. Many I know do things to help real people with real needs. Can’t help everyone.

There is nothing unChristian about not saving everyone, especially from something that has been going on for generations and had less done to resolve it by the godless Democrats.

This is not a case of a hijacking of faith. Abortion , gays and whatever other cause you may support are all in line with the traditional views of the Church. People growing up don’t realize that organized religion is not an ala-cart where you pick and choose which parts you will follow, unless you wish to make your own break away branch. (breakaway religious groups get shot and burned out by Democrats, so I don’t recommend it)

If you don’t like the established teaching of a religion, then you are not a part of that established religion. Make your own.

Just because you don’t LIKE the established teachings, does not make them all wrong. There can not be a conflict betweent the laws of man and the laws of God. Laws of God do not allow you to violate the laws of Man. On the other hand, just because you CAN do something based on the laws of man, does not mean you SHOULD do them.

Anyone that uses causal abortions as birthcontrol is a dispicable human, and should be loathed, but not jailed.

Be a charitable mule.

In reply to That is NOT what you have been going on about

Pay no attention to those who say you can only safely carry three people on your back. They are all liars! Let everyone on board. 5,6,7 oops! What, your back broke? Too bad. You’ll never be able to help anyone ever again. Well I guess those riders will have to find another mule. And don’t mind that YOU are now the one starving to death, that’s ok. You’ve had a good life helping others, and though you’re useless as political ammunition, at least you can help the (other) vultures and buzzards.

You only use government as an excuse….

In reply to 1? 2? 3? There Goes Another

….so you don’t have to address the problem yourself. Why not spend half of your vacation time actually helping others? Why don’t you send 10 or 20 percent, or more, of your own income to the causes you deem worthy? Why don’t you do both?

Because it’s people like you who never lift a finger to help others, but use government’s limitations as your excuse.

(Now is the time that you will lie about how much you do and give. But we both know better, don’t we?)

The problem

In reply to You only use government as an excuse….

with throwing money at the problem is that it removes the sense of humility that someone who is beholden to others should have. I agree with the “do it yourself” part though. Not only is it more efficient, it reinforces in the recipient the concept that life is part work!

Huh?

In reply to The problem

— The problem with throwing money at the problem is that it removes the sense of humility that someone who is beholden to others should have. —

Nothing develops ones sense of humility like watching your children die of starvation. If this is the best our ?Christian? leaders have to offer, than what reason is there for anyone to follow the ?decent? rules of our so-called civilization?

What a relief.

In reply to Huh?

I was getting concerned that your platitudes weren’t ostentatious enough.

And exactly what kind of person

In reply to Huh?

goes out and HAS kids that they know they can’t feed?

No, don’t place the blame where it belongs.

There are many charities, that help many people with different issues. Just because you don’t feel others are doing enough about something your doing nothing for, does not make everyone else any less Christian or decent.

Instead of making a post to try to make people aware of a situation that needs to be fixed, you have tried to use it as a weapon to beat on a group of people you hate. You disgust me that you would use this to push your political/religious hate.

You think . . .

In reply to You only use government as an excuse….

you know me. You don’t. So stop pretending. Now let?s get down to brass tacks. I applaud and admire anything you have or will do in the future to stop children from unnecessarily starving to death. I applaud and admire this type of work, whether it is done under the auspices of religion, private charity, governments, economic development agencies, private corporations, etc. Unfortunately, even with all the efforts of every person, every organization and every government trying to help, one child dies from starvation or hunger related disease every THREE seconds.

As the leader of the most ?Christian? nation on earth, the wealthiest nation, the most powerful nation, is it too much to ask our born again President to use his office and position to promote a massive effort to prevent the unnecessary starvation of an innocent child every three seconds. Remember, 1, 2, 3? another child is gone — 1,2, 3?and another?. 1, 2, 3 one more . . .

Have you been paying attention to the world at all?

In reply to 1? 2? 3? There Goes Another

William Jefferson Clinton, the “first Black president”, ruled this great country for eight years. How is it there are any poor people left? Oh yeah, Democrats don’t give a squat about this either?

First thing, it is time stupid people stop breeding. If you can not feed a child but you plunge ahead popping them out anyways, THAT is the person responsible for the starving. Simple. Can’t pay for your family, you don’t have a family. If you choose to have that family anyways, then you should be prosecuted for child neglect, endangerment, and manslaughter for every child that dies.

There ARE many Christian charities that do a lot for the poor and the starving in the world. I would venture more Christian organizations than otherwise too.

They are also taking care of OUR homeless, our poor, our abused or neglected.

Showing your dual hate for Christians and Republicans just shows you to be a sad individual. Glad hate does not rule my life like it does your. I pity you.

What are YOU doing to help the “another child blah blah blah”. How many have YOU saved. How much money do YOU give. How much time do YOU donate? How about the Democratic party? What are THEY doing that the Republicans are not?

That is ok. The cause isn’t what is important to you. One more thing you can HATE people over is all your looking for. How sad.

do something positive, and get people to follow your lead. Or sit around and hate.

They could do more….

In reply to Have you been paying attention to the world at all?

“There ARE many Christian charities that do a lot for the poor and the starving in the world. I would venture more Christian organizations than otherwise too.”

… if their members weren’t taxed as much.

You know, don’t you, that the welfare system wasn’t created for the poor. It was created for the deadbeats!

You see, it used to be that anyone who genuinely needed help got it through the good people of their community. The deadbeats saw this as an opportunity to do less work, and they devised ways to get on the gravy train, as they saw it. The good people of the community soon caught on, and, cut the scammers scammers off. Well, not wanting to work for a living, these scammers cried to the government “Nobody will help us”. and the government, taken in by the scammers, started taxing the good people. Of course, this led to the good people not having enough money to help all of the genuinely needy people, so some of them had to be turned away, and the government raised the taxes to help these people too, and, as you know, the snowball turned into an avalanche. But it was the lazy who got the ball rolling.

This needs to be put back under the control of the commmunity. Some bug-eyed bureaucrat a thousand miles away has no idea how to tell the scammer from the truly needy, but those in the person’s community do! Not only that, we can provide $100 worth of real help with $100, not provide $29 worth of half-vast help for $100 the way the government does!

Absolutely correct

In reply to They could do more….

The community level is where it should start and stop.

another major point

In reply to They could do more….

Our dear poster would surely be one of the first to start spouting the MYTH of absolute separation of church and state if the government and the Republicans were to start helping to fund the religious groups that DO lots of charity work.

You have more kids than you can feed and the kids die of starvation, the father and mother should be executed because of the extreme child abuse and neglect they have inflicted on that child.

Having kids and a large family is not a right anyone has if they can’t fully support that family.

Give funding only to the families that agree to get sterilized so they will stop destroying their own country.

I’m in the middle

In reply to another major point

of a situation like that right now. Woman with seven children under age 8, drugs, domestic violence, neglect. My wife and I are pulling our hair out trying to get the government to do their damned jobs.

best of luck on that

In reply to I’m in the middle

for the sake of the kids.

Call the goveneror, call the mayor, call your state reps.

Call the local press.

Be careful how you say what you say, because you don’t want to get in trouble yourself while trying to help someone else.

My sister-in-law used to work for protective services. I will ask her for ideas on how to help and get back to you.

THanks!

In reply to best of luck on that

WE’ve been in this mess for three years, and I’ve spent thousands out of my own pocket trying to get them to do their job. I even tried to sue them, but they did some back-room thing with the judge and I never got to tell my side of what was going on! They got a new director, and she seems a little more understanding. I just hope we haven’t worn out our welcome. Any advice you can give would be appreciated VERY much!!!

Too true

In reply to They could do more….

When I was in college, I hit a low spot when my scholarship ran out. I was close to graduation, working 40 hours/week, and PAYING TAXES.

When I asked for government assistance, I was denied. Why?

A) I was a student and obviously didn’t need it…students aren’t poor!
B) I was working

My cash flow was negative! My rent, tution, books, food, gas, utilties, etc all added up very quickly.

I was lucky, I was saved at the last minute by an EXTRA student loan so I could get by.

Thanks for nothing…

sillly boy

In reply to Too true

Government assistance isn’t for people trying to better themselves, it is for people that don’t try.

Was in the same boat. Went back to school and found out I made too much for the government to spend any of MY tax dollars on me. Some welfare rat is much more deserving. That and I think the Dung/Jesus exibit needed some more funding so the “artist” could express himself. Yeah, two kids in school and both me and the EXwife attending college. (her not working) what did we need help for? Wasn’t quite a negative cash flow, but it was tight.

Thanks for nothing government.

Oh yeah, first starting out, making $6 an hour supporting a family of four, I couldn’t even get any assistance then either. If I would have quit the job I could have had everything paid. darn that integrity of needing to earn my keep.

What are you willing to do?

In reply to Too true

Here in the US, thre are always ways.

I too ran out of money with less than one year of college left. I found a job that would pay for my education. It took me 8 years to get my BS.

I have been in a position to qualify for welfare. I refused to apply for it. I knew I could pull myslef up.

I have been in a positon to file for bankrupcy. Again I refused to do it. I mangaed to pull myself out of it.

Not that I’m any better than anyone else. And not that there is anything wrong with filing for welfare or bankrupcy, if you are truely in need. But personally I just could never admit to my self that I can’t support myself and my family.

This is exactly the situation in which social security is needed.

In reply to Too true

In Australia we have “deadbeats” too, we call them dole-bludgers. For them I have no patients and could write volumes on the subjuct, but this would be a waste of everybody’s time. But there is a division of welfare called “AusStudy” which exists to help students but I still feel it is not enough, students are still being forced into debt. Secondly people get made redundant and need help, such people can normaly find another job within 3 months (job market permiting).

Thirdly, the rich should be taxed more and we, the working public should recieve a tax cut (A$ 21,000 – A$70,000 tax brackets). I think that once you earn over a certain amount (for example $1 mil for individuals) you should be flat taxed and have loopholes denied to you.

Yes

In reply to Have you been paying attention to the world at all?

–William Jefferson Clinton, the “first Black president”, ruled this great country for eight years.–

Watch out, your racial attitudes are showing.

–How is it there are any poor people left? Oh yeah, Democrats don’t give a squat about this either??

Two wrongs don?t make a right. And they don?t excuse ?compassionate? conservatives’ criminal neglect in the face of starving children.

–First thing, it is time stupid people stop breeding.–

Which book of the bible contains this commandment?

–If you can not feed a child but you plunge ahead popping them out anyways, THAT is the person responsible for the starving. —

Careful, your rather un-Christian hatred for poor people is showing.

— Simple. Can’t pay for your family, you don’t have a family. —

Ok in the simplistic, black & white fantasy world of perhaps well meaning, but fatally na?ve, conservatives. Never has and never will work in the world as it really is.

–There ARE many Christian charities that do a lot for the poor and the starving in the world. I would venture more Christian organizations than otherwise too.–

And I applaud this. Unfortunately, even with all the efforts of every person, every organization and every government trying to help, one child dies from starvation or hunger related disease every THREE seconds.

As the leader of the most ?Christian? nation on earth, the wealthiest nation, the most powerful nation, is it too much to ask our born again President to use his office and position to promote a massive effort to prevent the unnecessary starvation of an innocent child every three seconds. Remember, 1, 2, 3? another child is gone — 1,2, 3?and another?. 1, 2, 3 one more . . .

— What are YOU doing to help the “another child blah blah blah”. How many have YOU saved. How much money do YOU give. How much time do YOU donate?–

Don?t be afraid to say it: another child starves to death or dies of hunger related diseases every three seconds. 1, 2, 3 another one dead . . . . . . . . .

— How many have YOU saved. How much money do YOU give. How much time do YOU donate? How about the Democratic party? What are THEY doing that the Republicans are not? ?

I hate to have to say it, but GET OVER YOURSELF. I?m talking about children starving to death and like a lot of your fellow travelers, your response is to point a finger at me and the Democrats. Does this make you feel more comfortable with the reality that two or three children starved to death while you were busy justifying the criminal inaction of our so-called Christian leadership? Someday you?ll realize that the world doesn?t boil down to shop-worn piety and ?free? market ideology. Until then, save your pity for the tens of millions of children who will starve to death while our ?great? nation pours hundreds of billions into the boy emperor?s Iraqi adventure, and hundreds more into a war machine that long ago knew no equal on the face of the earth. Christian, my foot!

Where do you make this crap up at?

In reply to Yes

I am not the one who dubbed William Jefferson Clinton the “First Black President”, so this is not anything that reflects on me in any way, shape or form.

[i]”Two wrongs don?t make a right. And they don?t excuse ?compassionate? conservatives’ criminal neglect in the face of starving children.”[/i]
Ok, so you will hold Republicans accountable for something that was not of their making, yet give Democrats a free pass. It is ALL the Christian Repulicans fault that the problems that have been going on for decades has not mysteriously disappeared.

———-
[i]
ME:–First thing, it is time stupid people stop breeding.–

YOU:–Which book of the bible contains this commandment?
[/i]
Did I say it was a commandment? It is a simple fact that these STUPID people that make the CHOICE to bring children into the world that they know beforehand that they can’t feed ARE THE WHOLE PROBLEM AND REASON THAT YOUR 1 2 3 CHILDREN ARE DYING. The parents that should be facing criminal charges for neglect, endangerment, abuse, and neglegent homocide.

It is not the fault of the President, Republicans or the Christians. It is the fault of the parents that are breeding without the responsiblity of caring for the children.

You may give stupid people a free pass on their responsibility, but I won’t. You have a child, you are responsible for the welfare of that child. Anyone that can not care for children have NO RIGHT having children and are horrible human beings for doing so. People can not be saved from their own stupidity.

What is unchristian about this? It is VERY unchristian to have children you know are going to starve. Is it unchristian of me? I did nothing to cause this problem, and I can not save the world. I have my own charities I support, cancer society (how fast are people dropping from that?) and local food banks/coats for kids/womens shelters. I DO my part.

It is you, doing nothing, and then trying to say that is besides the point that are a big part of the problem. My concern is people HERE that need help. While there are people HERE that need help, let the people from other countries take care of their own. I will NOT chose to let someone HERE die just so someone from another country can live, espicially when the problems in the other country are brought on by the irrisponsible and abusive behavior of the parents.

You pretent to applaud that Christian organizations are doing more for people than anyone else, yet snidely sneer because THEY aren’t doing as much as you think they could/should be doing. Start your own charity and do something if you actually care about the 1 2 3 kids. Your not willing to do anything? YOU are chosing to let them die. When you do nothing but complain that other people aren’t doing more and the whole time you are worthless, it makes you and everything you say a sick joke. YOU are a sick joke.

Show us how it is done, mr Anti-Christian. Lead by example. Do not pretend to know what is or isn’t Christian, because it is obvious you know nothing about it. But you won’t. It isn’t the poor poor you care about, it is making people you HATE look bad that is your goal.

didn’t work. you are pathetic.

I’m not making it up. It’s really happening

In reply to Where do you make this crap up at?

— It is a simple fact that these STUPID people that make the CHOICE to bring children into the world that they know beforehand that they can’t feed ARE THE WHOLE PROBLEM AND REASON THAT YOUR 1 2 3 CHILDREN ARE DYING. —

You are completely wrong about this. Educate yourself at http://www.unmillenniumproject.org/index.

–You pretent to applaud that Christian organizations are doing more for people than anyone else, yet snidely sneer because THEY aren’t doing as much as you think they could/should be doing. —

Wrong again jd. I welcome all attempts to stop a child from starving to death every three seconds. It’s the phony right-wing “Christians” who are running the US government that I’m sneering at.

tell me in your own words

In reply to I’m not making it up. It’s really happening

exactly why it is these people after generations have never lifted themselves up to be self reliant.

Tell me exactly what the Democrats that were in power were doing to elminate this problem, that the Republicans are not now doing.

Throwing a bunch of pictures of kids on a flier does not do anything to resolve an issue.

To say that just stupidly and blindly throwing MORE money at this symptoms will do anything but make the problem continue is dishonest.

As for your sneer at “phony” Christians, you have done nothing to show anything of the sort, nor to hold up an REAL Christian example from previous administrations.

I’ll point the finger at you

In reply to Yes

What have you done about it? Anything at all? I doubt it. Its just a handy topic to attack groups that you don’t like, spout cliches and demonstrate a shallow lack of understanding of Christians and conservatives. You seem to think that the stereotype made up by the leftists is actually true.

Christians and conservatives have done more to fix the problem than all the socialists in the world. And a LOT more than you.

So, tell us what you have done. What you are doing. And share your great wisdom about what should be done. I’m sure we would all like to hear.

Or are you just another hypocrite?

No way

In reply to I’ll point the finger at you

–It?s just a handy topic to attack groups that you don’t like, spout cliches and demonstrate a shallow lack of understanding of Christians and conservatives. You seem to think that the stereotype made up by the leftists is actually true.?

Is it really comforting to believe this nonsense? The behavior of the ?conservative? Republican leadership of the US government and of the phony ?Christian? right speaks for itself. I don?t need leftist clich?s. These jokers are already walking, talking clich?s. They are neither conservative nor Christian by any definition you care to offer. And that my friend makes them hypocrites worthy of nothing more than scorn and condemnation.

glass houses, my friend

In reply to No way

glass houses.

Here is a religious quote for you.

let he without sin cast the first stone……

will you throw that stone?

First of all

In reply to No way

First of all, I’m not your friend.

You are a walking cliche without an original thought in your head. And the biggest hypocrite I’ve run across in a long, long time.

You have never responded to any questions. What have you done? (No answer) What do you plan to do? (No answer) What should be done? (People that you obviously hate should do more than they are already doing) That is what you think passes for substance?

The leftist in this country haven’t had a new idea in the last 40 or 50 years. But they have had lots of practice in name calling and obstruction. And making life worse for the people they claim to care about.

While you and those like you have done nothing except complain and whine, Christians and Conservatives have been working to solve problems.

So lets hear your suggestions on how to solve the problem you brought up. Any ideas at all?

your flaw

In reply to 1? 2? 3? There Goes Another

is that you think the government should be everybody’s mommy.

Mere birth does not entitle one to a living. You have to force yourself to draw that first breath, and the same thing applies to everything after. If someone is WILLING to help, fine, but nobody has any right to burden themselves upon any other.

Some would say that is cold hearted but that would be a load of excrement. Tell me, which is more warm-hearted? Voluntarily caring for as many needy as you can, or being forced to do it?

People like epw@… are always willing to give….

In reply to your flaw

…..the shirt off someone else’s back.

and then

In reply to People like epw@… are always willing to give….

stand their thumping his/her chest on how compasionate he/she is.

You too JD

In reply to and then

Your shirt is safe.

yet

In reply to You too JD

you have still done nothing to resolve any of the issues, or help ANYONE but yourself.

Don’t worry Max . . .

In reply to People like epw@… are always willing to give….

… you can keep your shirt.

You can’t have your cake and eat it too

In reply to your flaw

There seems to be a real disconnect here. I?m talking about innocent children starving to death unnecessarily and you?re promoting the benefits of self-reliance and preaching free market ideology.

If you want to be a strict free market advocate and allow that government has no role in the economy ? that?s fine. But don?t claim to be a follower of Jesus Christ at the same time. If you want to follow Christ ? that?s also fine. But don?t ascribe sacredness to free market capitalism at the same time.

You cannot truly follow Christ and answer the suffering of children with platitudes about the inappropriateness of government action to alleviate suffering. No one can claim to be Christian in one breath and then talk of being forced to help the needy in the next.

It’s not a job for governments

In reply to You can’t have your cake and eat it too

it’s a job for [b]people[b]. Even Christ knew this.

no adunlap

In reply to It’s not a job for governments

pew wants to have the nanny state that takes care of the people that don’t take care of themselves.

He likes it when the government subsidizes poverty to create a peasent class that will vote Democrat because that is where the next handout will come from.

What is Christian about telling people they are too stupid to compete and make their own way?

What is Christian about people that are as openly hateful as pew is?

And only a moron would think you have cake for any reason then to eat it. If you work hard in life (like SOME of us have done) and earn yourself some cake, enjoy it. I like cake.

free market

In reply to You can’t have your cake and eat it too

Capitalism is the greatest invention of mankind to date. No, it is not perfect, but it has solved more of societies problems than all of the other ‘isms’ combined. It does this by using the very traits of humans that is the downfall of the other ‘isms’, greed and selfishness.

Unlike governments, who benefit from keeping people down, capitalism benefits by keeping them up; and ‘up’ people scare the hell out of governments, as they tend to put them in their proper place as servants to society.

Unfettered capitalism would fix [b]ALL[/b] of the economic problems this world faces, and [b]MOST[/b] of the non-economic ones as well.

like what Winston Churchill said

In reply to free market

“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others we have tried”

The same really applies to free market.

Oh, I forgot

In reply to free market

That’s right; the world was such a paradise before those evil governments interfered in the sacred free market. For the love of whichever god you choose, give us a break will you.

No, it wasn’t

In reply to Oh, I forgot

but it would have been a lot closer by now if the governments had limited their interference, and it’s clear that the standard of living is higher in inverse proportion to government interference.

Peope want freedom… freedom from as well as freedom to. In a free market, people can have any standard of living they are willing to work for. The only people who would oppose such a system are the dishonest and the lazy.

I think a fark.com meme is needed here

In reply to 1? 2? 3? There Goes Another

“Die in a fire.” This isn’t meant literally, but in a figurative and highly “WTF are on you,” way.

New Mexico is a nanny state. I GIVE a TON of my paycheck to the state. I get very little out of it. The roads are craptastic and the services offered to me are mediocore at best. However, the reason I pay so much is because this is a nanny state. I pay for OTHERS to live off MY dime. I pay for food, shelter, medical care, etc, etc, etc, etc, for those that can’t afford it. I’m FORCED to pay this. However, I give money to the Catholic church, which does the same things, but more efficiently.

The church spends my money on food, clothing, and medical care that goes DIRECTLY to the those that need it. With the state, I’m paying for all the state workers that are overhead, along with the massive amounts of paper and equipment they buy. Not to mention the corruption at all levels….

Which is better?

While you rail against the Christians, you’ve done nothing to help. Why not FIX the f’ing nanny state and make things right? Why not start a care center? Why not actually give money ($20 per month goes a LONG way in various charities) and WORK to fix it.

Before you even start:
A) I am not Christian (I guess I am, but I’m a recovering Catholic…I’d fall more on the agnostic end of the spectrum)
B) I am not a “right winger.” I’m a Libertarian. STAY OUT OF MY POCKET!
C) The government is the LAST resort in many cases. There are a few, but that boils down to utilities and monopolistic business that HAVE to be that way (eg power, water, etc…I also think oil should be considered that way, but the way things are going I’d be strung up and burned in effigy)

The real problem

In reply to I think a fark.com meme is needed here

— New Mexico is a nanny state. I GIVE a TON of my paycheck to the state. I get very little out of it. The roads are craptastic and the services offered to me are mediocore at best. However, the reason I pay so much is because this is a nanny state. I pay for OTHERS to live off MY dime. I pay for food, shelter, medical care, etc, etc, etc, etc, for those that can’t afford it. I’m FORCED to pay this. ?

What?s the matter? You don?t like nannies? Sorry, couldn?t resist. I think the problem isn?t that you are giving; the problem is that we Americans don?t force our governments to spend our money on our real needs. Instead, we get let them spend most of it on pork for corporate interests, tax breaks for the wealthiest among us, war by choice instead of necessity, unnecessary arms and a host of other nonsensical projects. And then, having been hoodwinked by a lot of rubbish about how our so-called conservatives are merely orchestrating free markets, we begrudge the relative pittance these same “conservatives” toss to the poor.

— However, I give money to the Catholic church, which does the same things, but more efficiently. —
— The church spends my money on food, clothing, and medical care that goes DIRECTLY to the those that need it. With the state, I’m paying for all the state workers that are overhead, along with the massive amounts of paper and equipment they buy. Not to mention the corruption at all levels…. —

Congratulations on your status as a recovering Catholic. I mean it. It?s no small feat to escape the mountain of propaganda. But don?t forget the Church?s other side. While they do spend some money on the people they feel are worthy, they also have spent, and continue to spend, a fortune on the Church itself. And since the Church does not have to pay taxes, all of us are subsidizing the Catholic Church, as well as every other organized religion practicing in the US.

— While you rail against the Christians, you’ve done nothing to help. —

I?m not railing against Christians, just the hypocrites and liars who cloak themselves in the mantle of Christianity. There?s a big difference. I can?t imagine Jesus Christ being pleased with these phonies. What I can?t understand is why so many Americans who identify themselves as Christians tolerate this usurpation of their faith. If George W. Bush and the self-righteous, rightwing, religious bullies who love him are Christian, than I?m John the Baptist.

PS: Watch that talk about government being the last resort for controlling the oil companies. Pretty soon they?ll be calling you a godless, commie rat. Take care of yourself.

What?

In reply to The real problem

“And since the Church does not have to pay taxes, all of us are subsidizing the Catholic Church, as well as every other organized religion practicing in the US.”

You are so deeply entrenched in the entitlement mentality that you see nothing wrong with the above statement. [b]PEOPLE[/b] are the only entities that pay taxes!

Clarification

In reply to What?

–You are so deeply entrenched in the entitlement mentality that you see nothing wrong with the above statement. PEOPLE are the only entities that pay taxes! —

Businesses pay taxes on their assets and income. Churches ought to pay taxes on their assets and income, or bow out of the political arena. True, the people working in these organizations actually pay, but I wrongly assumed this went without saying. My mistake.

Business don’t pay taxes

In reply to Clarification

When government “taxes businesses” all they are doing is having the business collect the tax from their customers and send it along to the government.

Basic economics.

Basic lack of common sense

In reply to Business don’t pay taxes

So when an annual report cites income before taxes, subtracts the taxes, and then states net income after taxes — we should shrug our shoulders and ignore the difference. OK.

Basic lack of common sense. If taxes are so evil, let’s eliminate them all. I’m sure everyone who is lamenting their horrible tax burden will be the first ones screaming for such extraneous government services as police, fire, roads, schools, favorite public works, military protection, disaster response and recovery, etc. When these services are unavailable, and you no longer have a civil society to make your sacred money in, how long will it take you to reinstitute government and taxes?

Stop looking a gift horse in mouth. You’ve benefited immensely from the society made possible through the intelligent use of tax revenue. If you don’t believe it, try setting up shop beyond the confines of civil society and see how far you get. Nothing makes less sense than a business person complaining about taxes while the institutions supported by those taxes are the very reason he or she can succeed in their endeavors.

taxes

In reply to Basic lack of common sense

When a company turns a PROFIT, they pay taxes on that profit.

They then pay their employees, and that money is again taxed.

The money is double dipped on.

This does not include property taxes.

Complaining about taxes. It is when the money is not FAIRLY taxed that many complain. When you keep penalizing people that are successful just to suppliment people that do nothing with their lives, people DO have a right to complain.

When the tax dollars are wasted on things like a lifetime on welfare, art exibits, or even paying farmers NOT to grow a crop, again there is a right to complain.

The Fedreal Government is currently doing a lot of things with our tax dollars that they have no constitutional right to do, making what they do illegal.

We need to stop wasting tax dollars on “aid” packages that go directly into the pockets of corrupt leaders of other nations.

A fine is a tax for doing something bad.
A tax is a fine for doing something good.

Taxes aren’t necessarily evil

In reply to Basic lack of common sense

But the way some of them are levied appears to be unethical to say the least. Ultimately, consumers pay all taxes, so consumption is what should be taxed (and in my personal opinion, the [b]only[/b] thing that should be taxed). This is going on a tangent, but since companies don’t pay tax anyway, why on earth are we taxing them? All it does is make more work for them keeping track of it, which ultimately adds to the cost of the product or service, without adding any value to it! You add this cost up for every company in the country, and it adds up to several hundred [b]BILLION[/b] dollars every year that is, basically, thrown down the toilet. It doesn’t add value to the product, and the government doesn’t get it, so what good is it?

(and by the way, I think these congresspersons who are pushing for increasing the tax on oil company profits are complete idiots, no matter their party. Where are they going to get the money to pay these additional taxes? I’ll tell you where: [b]from you and me![/b] the same place they get the money to pay their existing taxes!)

What nonsense.

In reply to Basic lack of common sense

Nobody mentioned that taxes are evil. The point was who actually pays taxes. (The people who work and actually produce things, for those who don’t know.)

Try to focus.

Here is a really simple lesson in simple, basic economics. Suppose I bake a loaf of bread and sell it. Suppose it costs me $.90 to produce that bread and I sell it for $1.00, resulting in a profit of ten cents.

Now, suppose some politicial decides that people selling bread are making too much profit, and people are too fat anyway, and decides to tax each loaf of bread produced twenty five cents. That makes my cost to produce a loaf of bread go up to $1.15. Do you really think I’m going to still sell it for $1.00? I’m going to still sell it for more than my cost to make it, or I will go out of business very quickly. So, I’m going to pass the tax along, and sell that loaf of bread for $1.25, not $1.00 and the consumer will be paying the tax and I’ll just be collecting the tax and sending it to the government.

My accountant will list my gross sales as $1.25 and taxes paid as $.25 and now you know far more about economics that you did a few minutes ago.

“And since the Church does not have to pay taxes, all of us are subsidizing the Catholic Church, as well as every other organized religion practicing in the US.”

And the only way taxes could be subsidizing churches is if they are using services paid for by taxes, greater than the taxes paid. By that definition taxes subsidize lots of leftists, who produce little and line up for every handout available.

Take the next step

In reply to Basic lack of common sense

Except that leftists pay taxes, religions don’t. But thanks anyway for the basic lesson in economics. You put it very clearly. So why not take the next step and explain why you are complaining about taxes? Isn’t the real problem the way they’re misspent? That’s my point. As long as the taxes are fair, the money has to come from somewhere doesn’t it? And yet, for the so-called conservative right, the answer to every problem is to cut taxes. So again I’ll ask you: Why not eliminate all taxes tomorrow?

I’m not sure

In reply to Basic lack of common sense

I’m not sure how you thought I was complaining about taxes. I said “Nobody mentioned that taxes are evil.”

But if you want to tax the rich you will have to tax net worth instead of income. Many very rich people have very little income. John Kerry is worth around one billion, and paid almost no income tax. Teddy Kennedy is another who is very rich by any definition and has very little actual income. (Both of them are very much in favor of “taxing the rich” by taxing income.)

Taxing income taxes those who are trying to become rich.

re: The next step

In reply to Basic lack of common sense

“Isn’t the real problem the way they’re misspent?”

Not all of the problem. More of it has to do with the efficiency. You see, it goes through the beuraucracy twice. Once when it is collected, and again when it is spent. There is nothing that can be done about this short of giving the government less money to work with.

I wouldn’t eliminate ALL taxes, but I would change the way they are collected, and what they are spent on.

Tax only consumption. Not income and not wealth. Consumers pay all taxes anyway (through businesses passing their costs to the consumer), so why not just be up front about it?

Spend tax money only on infrastructure. Police, fire, military, roads, water and sewer, etc. (NOT social programs. NOT education. NOT disaster relief (except repairing infrastructure). Private business can do all of these things better and much more efficiently.)

They’ll only need a fourth of what they’re getting now, and we’ll be able to help 3 times as many people as we help now, and 90% of our social problems would solve themselves.

The problem is implementing it. Those at the top of the wealth/power mountain (mostly old-money democrats) believe that only a few of the brighest minds (in their opinion: them!) are capapable of properly using this country’s power, and they don’t like to share! They punish those trying to climb that mountain by taxing them (and, as with most punishment, the object is to deter the punishable ‘offense’), and demonize them to those who aren’t trying to climb.

Unfortunately, enough of the right people aren’t fed up enough with the status-quo to do anything about it, so it probably won’t change any time soon.

Businesses

In reply to Clarification

don’t pay taxes because: The cost is included in the price of their product or service (people who don’t understand this are the ones who also fail to believe that the government consumes over 60% of the GDP in this country). Since churches don’t have a salable product or service, they don’t pay taxes. It has nothing to do with religion. There are many organizations that do not have a salable product or service, and thus do not pay taxes.

Aghh,, the trolls are everywhere

In reply to 1? 2? 3? There Goes Another

Gee, I only wish the Chrisians had the power to make and enact such actions that EPW credits them with. Not sure which of the 168 flavors of Christianity he/she is shovelling on.
Obviously a post ment to incite hurt, anger and bring on retribution, all while the original poster runs away and is never to be heard from again.
What the heck is a republican Christian anyway? Does the Pope, either of the two, know about this and endorse it?

An’t it just kind of funny on how one day a certain group/belief/movement is discredited as being small and nonconsequential to world events in the, “Big picture,” and then yet another day the same group is vilified as being the source of all that is evil?

Come on, really, we all know that the true source of all evil is grandma wearing spandex.

very well said

In reply to Aghh,, the trolls are everywhere

This was not a “well thought out” or “meaningful” discussion started by our poster. Nothing but flamebait and then sit back and enjoy that he/she got a rise out of everyone with a deliveratly stupid and inacurate “discussion”.

If he/she really felt this way, he/she would be too busy over in these countries doing something to help. The stupid and lazy will always try to accuse others of not caring, while they are doing nothing to end the problem themselves.

Oh, I missed the part about supporting documents? Oh well, he/she didn’t care that much either.

Everyone has their charities. I spend my efforts with the cancer society.

Maybe the Christian Republicans can write up a grant to give to the religious charities that go over there? Oh wait, that wouldn’t make the poster happy either because the money was givin to a religious group to do something. Stupid people don’t like that, even though it has been supported by the Supreme court. Oh, facts and reality are always such a downer to the stupid… And our poster is definately stupid.

We get your point.

In reply to very well said

You think, oh excuse me, you know I’m stupid and an evil person. Do you have anything else to offer? Or is this it?

Not “and”

In reply to We get your point.

[b]”or”[/b]

No, I think . . .

In reply to Not “and”

in jd’s dangerously uninformed and naive world view, I’m both stupid and evil.

Religious charities

In reply to very well said

I don?t want to pay to spread the good word of anything. You?ll have to forgive my belligerent atheism.

I do give to charities but non religious ones, my two favourites are Canteen, children?s cancer research and Here for Life, prevention of youth suicide. Both topics I feel passionately about.

I also give money to the Fred Hollows foundation which provides optometrist services in third world countries actively stopping people from going blind, which in my mind is a noble cause.

Christians, lighten up!

In reply to Aghh,, the trolls are everywhere

A few dark clouds on your horizon and you’re all going crazy. I’m not attacking Christians. I am attacking the liars and hypocrites who pose as Christians while they excuse and condone starvation of children at the rate of one every three seconds. When will the real Christians stand up and reclaim their faith? That’s what I want to know.

I don’t recall that in the bible

In reply to Christians, lighten up!

that every problem in the world is ours to resolve?

Do you or do you not support federal funding of “faith based initiatives”?

A simple yes or no will do.

Depends

In reply to I don’t recall that in the bible

— I don’t recall that in the bible
that every problem in the world is ours to resolve?–

For your edification, here is Luke:10 27 -37. Enjoy.

The Parable of the Good Samaritan
25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered: ” ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'[c]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.'[d]”
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. 35The next day he took out two silver coins[e] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’
36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”
Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

–Do you or do you not support federal funding of “faith based initiatives”?
A simple yes or no will do.?

Maybe. Depends on what we?re talking about. I think it?s a case by case decision.

No, not “maybe”. A direct yes or no.

In reply to Depends

The faith based initiatives were all charities. Places like soup kitchens and homeless shelters.

Are YOU, EPW, against giving a religions organization federal funding so they can pay for the soup kitchens and homeless shelters?

No “maybes” or “depends”. Yes or no.

Or are you going to cry out that you think this is a breaking of the myth of “Separation of Church and State”?

Time to make a stand. What do YOU belive. What do YOU support.

My stand

In reply to No, not “maybe”. A direct yes or no.

If a religion wants to administer poverty programs with public money from people of every faith, including no faith, I do not object as long as it agrees in writing to:

*completely abstain from ALL attempts to convert the people using that program

*opens the doors of that program to ALL who truly need the help, without exception for any reason

*adheres to ALL employment nondiscrimination standards in running that program.

I believe a sincere desire to help people should have no problem with these rules. On the other hand, if a religion wants to administer a poverty program and proselytize, or unfairly discriminate in choosing clients or employing people, I would object to giving one thin dime to support these activities. I say let that religion promote itself with the money of its members, not public funds. Public funds have no proper role to play in the promotion of any religion.

Of course, that begs the question…

In reply to Depends

Who forced the Samaritan?

No one

In reply to Of course, that begs the question…

No one. No person; no god; no government; only is own human kindness. Too bad this profound human quality is all too rare in the American power structure. When it comes to the millions of innocent children starving to death, America has kept on walking. Remember, while you defend the status quo, 1 2 3, 1 2 3, 1 2 3, … … … … …

rare?

In reply to No one

“Too bad this profound human quality is all too rare in the American power structure.”

I don’t know where you are getting your data, but historically those with the most to give are the ones who give the most (truly mean people are fairly rare, even in the places you’d expect to find them). Maybe without their charity there might be 5 children dieing every second! Have you thought about that? Oozing negativity isn’t going to make it happen any quicker.

You must have hit a nerve

In reply to 1? 2? 3? There Goes Another

to get so many negative replies! The whole religious-political thing all looks like a bunch of “tell them what they want to hear” to me anyway.
Every three seconds? That’s a lot to think about. It certainly makes spending a lot of time debating nonsense with anyone sure look foolish.
It strikes me that it’s all about love. People either care about life as a whole and practice loving one another, or they don’t. All of the laws and rules aren’t going to make that happen.
Becoming aware of babies dying every three seconds might help some egotist to look at him/herself, though. Ya’ never know what will open a mind or a heart.
Mine was touched, epw. Thanks for the post.

It all points to a basic question

In reply to You must have hit a nerve

epw expects government to be in the charity business. But that’s not the role of government, at least it’s not in the minds of people like Thomas Jefferson and me (and others, of course). What about you?

Moreover, government run charity or government run _________ (anything – fill in the blank) is about the most inefficient way to run just about anything (with a few exceptions).

Government can’t give anything to anyone without first taking it from someone else. And what government gives is probably only about 25 percent of what it takes, when you factor in the waste, fraud, abuse, politics, and overhead. And in doing so, considering how much government really does take from people, it actually creates more people who, in turn, become less able to be charitable themselves, and it creates more people who become dependent on government. The numbers bear this out. For example, in the United States, people living in “poverty” (defined in a variety of ways) decreased, in both real numbers and percentages, every decade of the 20th century UNTIL the government got involved with the debacle called the [i]War on Poverty[/i], which actually resulted in a reversal of the trend, and MORE people became mired in poverty and became dependent on government.

Not only is it not the role of government in the United States, but it’s counter-productive. So why do it? The ONLY reason is use it as an excuse to turn a blind-eye to a problem, and put the burden on someone else. It’s NOT being charitable by expecting the government to do it. In fact, it’s just the opposite. It’s being mean, selfish and self-centered because it’s passing the buck to someone else.

Yeah!

In reply to It all points to a basic question

Woot! I wish I could have said that myself.
Thank You Maxwell.

So why do it?

In reply to It all points to a basic question

The most important job of a bureaucracy is to guarantee its own survival.

It’s the reason police ignore some crimes, and why Children’s services puts some abused children back in their abusive homes. They want to make sure the traits are kept alive and passed along to the next generation, so that they’le have a steady supply of customers in the future. The “best intrest of the child” statutes are lip service! In practice, they’re “best interest of the [b]STATE[/b] statutes!

Say it ain’t so

In reply to So why do it?

— The most important job of a bureaucracy is to guarantee its own survival. —

This is undoubtedly part of the psychology of any bureaucracy, but what else is new.

— It’s the reason police ignore some crimes, and why Children’s services puts some abused children back in their abusive homes. —

It’s just not that simple and you should know that by now.

And by the way, the same stuff goes on all the time in private industry at every level. It?s a fact. You could look it up.

So

In reply to Say it ain’t so

“– The most important job of a bureaucracy is to guarantee its own survival. —

This is undoubtedly part of the psychology of any bureaucracy, but what else is new. ”

why insist on government involvement?

My personal taxes feed approximately 18 needy people. If I had that money I could feed twice as many and have money left over, so supporting government involvement in charity work is sheer lunacy, unless your goal is growing the bureaucracy. Is it?

That would be nice

In reply to So

— My personal taxes feed approximately 18 needy people. —

Wrong. Your personal taxes might feed 18 hungry people if the so-called ?Christian? right wingers who are collecting them spent the money on feeding the hungry. Instead, your personal taxes are being used to:
*subsidize tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans,
*contribute to the hundreds of billions being poured into the boy emperor’s Iraqi adventure,
*help fund a war machine that soaks up more money than the total spent by all of our allies and enemies combined,
*a host of wasteful pork barrel projects to benefit “connected” business cronies of our elected ?representatives?,
*a host of wasteful pork barrel projects to help assure reelection of the current bumper crop of hypocrites and liars.

Remember 1 2 3 – a child has just died unnecessarily of starvation or hunger related disease despite all of your personal charitable contributions. As laudable as your giving is, action is needed on a much broader, more organized scale. 1 2 3 – there’s goes one more … … … … … … … … … …

Well then,

In reply to That would be nice

Let’s assume that everything you’ve stated is correct and we come up with a way to fix it.

According to you, we’re going to increase taxes on the wealthiest Americans, stop the war in Iraq and let the chips fall where they may, dismantle the military, and prevent Congress from allocating funds for all projects since all projects have some pork built in. Oh, and I assume that you want to remove Congress totally since it’s filled with “a bumper crop of hypocrites and liars”. I assume that you would prefer a dictatorship? Or is that only if the dictator happens to be an atheist Democrat?

Now we have billions and billions of dollars to spend on your poor dying children. How would you suggest the money be distributed so it is fair and equitable for all concerned and remove all possibility of fraud or theft?

And please remember that any plan you come up with has to be done in less than six months because that’s about as long as the country would last after making your well thought out changes.

Ah,

In reply to That would be nice

So now you expose yourself.

“Wrong. Your personal taxes might feed 18 hungry people if the so-called ?Christian? right wingers who are collecting them spent the money on feeding the hungry.”

Do you really believe that [i]so-called ?Christian? right wingers[/i] invented taxes, or the hungry?

“*subsidize tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, ”

Do you really believe that [i]so-called ?Christian? right wingers[/i] invented wealth, or war, or pork-barrel politics?

You should also really take a look at any of the various web sites that track such things and look at who exactly the “wealthiest Americans” really are before you embarrass yourself further.

“Remember 1 2 3 – a child has just died unnecessarily of starvation or hunger related disease despite all of your personal charitable contributions.”

Hey, the [i]so-called ?Christian? right wingers[/i] believe that they’ve gone to a better place, free of hunger and disease, so that leaves us with your
[b][i]real[/i][/b] problem, the intense hatred you have for George Bush. Get over it, quick, before it eats a hole in your soul.

[edited to correct bolding]

adunlap, you should know better

In reply to That would be nice

–“Remember 1 2 3 – a child has just died unnecessarily of starvation or hunger related disease despite all of your personal charitable contributions.”

HEY, THE SO-CALLED ?CHRISTIAN? RIGHT WINGERS BELIEVE THAT THEY’VE GONE TO A BETTER PLACE, FREE OF HUNGER AND DISEASE, ? —

I knew we?d get around to this sooner or later. It?s the biggest, lamest rationalization trotted out by every religious zealot that has plagued mankind from time immemorial.

I think you cheapen yourself by referring to the claptrap served up by the bogus ?Christian? right. The innocent children who are condemned to live a life of unspeakable suffering and then die an agonizing death by starvation are now in heaven. They?re in a better place. Oh yeah. That makes it ok to continue business as usual. You should know better than that.

Puppy chow

In reply to That would be nice

–According to you, we’re going to increase taxes on the wealthiest Americans, stop the war in Iraq and let the chips fall where they may, dismantle the military, and prevent Congress from allocating funds for all projects since all projects have some pork built in. Oh, and I assume that you want to remove Congress totally since it’s filled with “a bumper crop of hypocrites and liars”. I assume that you would prefer a dictatorship? Or is that only if the dictator happens to be an atheist Democrat??

You have quite an imagination.

— Now we have billions and billions of dollars to spend on your poor dying children. ?

Their not particularly my children, but watch out, you?re providing a fine example of what it means to be a bogus, right wing ?Christian.?

–How would you suggest the money be distributed so it is fair and equitable for all concerned and remove all possibility of fraud or theft? ?

I?ve put in a call to Tom Delay. I?m sure he?ll know about fair and equitable for all concerned and removing all possibility of fraud or theft. Nice try pb, but people who live in glass houses shouldn?t throw stones.

–And please remember that any plan you come up with has to be done in less than six months because that’s about as long as the country would last after making your well thought out changes.–

They aren?t my well thought out changes, they?re yours. You came up with them.

not rationalization,

In reply to That would be nice

sarcasm. One thing I’ve noticed about most liberals: Everything good that happens is always their own doing, but everything bad that happens is always someone else’s fault. I suppose one has to fill an empty soul with something!

Maybe I misunderstood you

In reply to That would be nice

When you stated that one of the problems with the current administration was that they “subsidize tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans” weren’t you advocating that taxes be increased for these individuals? If not, what exactly is your point?

And when you complained that the current administration was responsible for babies’ deaths because they “contribute to the hundreds of billions being poured into the boy emperor’s Iraqi adventure” – weren’t you advocating that we end the war in Iraq and remove the possibility of spending additional billions of dollars? If not, what exactly is your point?

And when you complained that the current administration was responsible for babies’ deaths because they “help fund a war machine that soaks up more money than the total spent by all of our allies and enemies combined” – weren’t you advocating that we cut military spending which in effect dismantles the miltary? If not, what exactly is your point?

And when you complained that the current Congress was responsible for babies’ deaths because they create “a host of wasteful pork barrel projects to benefit “connected” business cronies of our elected ?representatives?” weren’t you advocating that we stop projects that have pork attached which is effect all projects? If not, what exactly is your point?

And when you complained that the current Congress was responsible for babies’ deaths because they create “a host of wasteful pork barrel projects to help assure reelection of the current bumper crop of hypocrites and liars.” weren’t you advocating the removal of all of these hypocrites and liars? If not, what exactly is your point?

And your flippant comment regarding Tom Delay didn’t answer my original question – “Now we have billions and billions of dollars to spend on your poor dying children. How would you suggest the money be distributed so it is fair and equitable for all concerned and remove all possibility of fraud or theft?”

Would you please explain what your plan would be assuming that money was allocated for the expressed purpose of saving all of the starving children in the world? Please, no changing the subject, throwing out insults, or using your 1-2-3 comments. Just answer the question. What’s your plan?

It’s OK to admit you don’t have a plan, most liberals only complain and whine without offering solutions. But at least admit it so we know where you stand.

You did

In reply to That would be nice

I’ll explain it when I have more time.

Puppy Chow – part 2

In reply to That would be nice

–When you stated that one of the problems with the current administration was that they “subsidize tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans” weren’t you advocating that taxes be increased for these individuals? If not, what exactly is your point??

Yes, I was advocating repealing the wildly irresponsible tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans. For example, last year?s energy bill included as much as $15 billion in tax breaks for the struggling American oil industry. What? They don?t make enough already? We have to subsidize them to get them to spend money on exploration, refineries, and alternative energy?

–And when you complained that the current administration was responsible for babies’ deaths because they “contribute to the hundreds of billions being poured into the boy emperor’s Iraqi adventure” – weren’t you advocating that we end the war in Iraq and remove the possibility of spending additional billions of dollars? If not, what exactly is your point??

To date, according to the Congressional Budget Office, the US admits spending $277 billion dollars on the boy emperor?s Iraqi adventure. This sum would have been enough to fully fund global anti-hunger efforts for 11 years. Worst of all, because of their dangerous naivet? and blind refusal to listen to more knowledgeable experts, the boy emperor and his chicken hawk, neo-conservative policy wonks have put us in a bind from which we cannot escape unscathed. The chips always fall where they may. The best anyone can do is to conduct the nation?s business in as judicious a manner as possible. As far as Iraq is concerned, this administration clearly threw all caution to the wind, and that?s always a sure-fire formula for fiascos like the boy emperor?s Iraqi adventure.

The opportunity to save the $277 billion we?ve already wasted in Iraq was lost about five weeks after the invasion, when the consequences of going to war without a plan began to manifest themselves. To just blindly cut and run will only compound the damage, but this possibility is made all the more likely because of the ongoing asinine Iraqi policy of the boy emperor and his minions.

–And when you complained that the current administration was responsible for babies’ deaths because they “help fund a war machine that soaks up more money than the total spent by all of our allies and enemies combined” – weren’t you advocating that we cut military spending which in effect dismantles the miltary? If not, what exactly is your point? ?

The FY?06 Defense Authorization bill includes $441.6 billion for the Department of Defense and the nuclear weapons activities of the Department of Energy. This is $19.5 billion above the amount authorized for FY?05. The bill also authorizes another $49.1 billion (and counting) for combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. This funding is NOT counted as part of the $441.6 billion. Compared to the rest of the world, US military spending is:
? Two-fifths of the total
? 7 times larger than the Chinese budget, the second largest spender
? 29 times as large as the combined spending of the six ?rogue? states (Cuba, Iran, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria) who spent $14.65 billion
? More than the combined spending of the next 14 nations.

The United States and its close allies accounted for some two thirds to three-quarters of all military spending, depending on who you count as close allies (typically NATO countries, Australia, Canada, Israel, Japan and South Korea). The six potential rogue state ?enemies,? as well as Russia and China, together spend $139 billion, 30% of the U.S. military budget.
Just how would cutting military spending ?dismantle? the military? Are you seriously arguing that we can?t afford to reduce this bloated budget?

?Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes ? known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few.? No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.?
James Madison, Political Observations, 1795

–And when you complained that the current Congress was responsible for babies’ deaths because they create “a host of wasteful pork barrel projects to benefit “connected” business cronies of our elected ?representatives?” weren’t you advocating that we stop projects that have pork attached which is effect all projects? If not, what exactly is your point? —

I don?t think I need to respond to this sophistry, but I?ll give it the answer it deserves. Unlike simple-minded buffoons who can only see the world as black or white, I know intelligent leadership can significantly reduce unnecessary pork.

And when you complained that the current Congress was responsible for babies’ deaths because they create “a host of wasteful pork barrel projects to help assure reelection of the current bumper crop of hypocrites and liars.” weren’t you advocating the removal of all of these hypocrites and liars? If not, what exactly is your point?

Yes, by the electoral process, which you seem to have confused with ?removing congress totally and preferring a dictatorship.?

–And your flippant comment regarding Tom Delay didn’t answer my original question.?

But it does draw attention to Republican hypocrisy and point out the sophistry that you like to substitute for legitimate discussion.

–Would you please explain what your plan would be assuming that money was allocated for the expressed purpose of saving all of the starving children in the world? Please, no changing the subject, throwing out insults, or using your 1-2-3 comments. Just answer the question. What’s your plan? It’s OK to admit you don’t have a plan, most liberals only complain and whine without offering solutions. But at least admit it so we know where you stand.?

I?m working on it. It will be an outline of already existing plans for saving the children who are starving to death and dieing of hunger related diseases at the rate of ONE EVERY THREE SECONDS OF EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY HOUR OF EVERY DAY OF EVERY YEAR. You guessed it. I?ll use whatever comments I please. Remember 1 2 3, 1 2 3, 1 2 3, and on and on and on ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Thanks for the clarification

In reply to That would be nice

Sorry, but your response has generated a couple of more questions. I hope you don’t mind but you are so knowledgeable about everything happening in the world.

If we take away tax cuts from the oil companies, isn’t there a chance that the unemployment rate will go up as the companies cut back to keep their investors happy? And wouldn’t a higher unemployment rate mean less tax dollars for the children? And if the profits of the oil companies fall because of the increased takes, doesn’t that mean less taxes for the Government?

If we cut back on military spending, doesn’t that also mean less soldiers which also means adding to the unemployment rate and means fewer dollars for the children?

Where are you going to find these politicians who are going to work to eliminate pork when the pork is what is keeping them elected? A new comer to politics who advocates cutting special projects in his/her district would never get elected since it would adversly affect the voters. And even if some did get elected, one term wouldn’t be enough time to get things done and they’d never get re-elected if the cuts they advocate meant jobs at home. So how do you correct this and get the right people in office, by your standards?

You are advocating that we spend billions of dollars to save dying children which is indeed a noble cause. Bush spent billions of dollars saving millions of people in Iraq. Are they less important than your children? Should we ignore them and their problems and focus solely on the starving children? Or should we spend our tax dollars saving the entire world from all problems?

Have you finalized your plan yet? Remember, 1,2,3 children are dying while you’re still trying to come up with a plan. 1,2,3 – there go three more. Stop stalling and get this fixed. 1,2,3 you’re not trying hard enough.

BTW, what are your qualifications for solving the world’s problems? What makes you ideas that much better than all of those who have tried before you? I know your parents must be proud that they raised someone of such a superior intellect. After all, you can use words like sophistry in a sentence so you must be smart.

Why don’t you get elected and then you would have a better chance of completing your noble mission? It would be outstanding to have someone of your intellect and moral fiber in politics.

Alternative energy

In reply to That would be nice

Why would you think that [b]Oil companies[/b] should be required to have anything to do with alternative (assumedly non-[b]oil[/b] based] energy sources?

I don’t mind

In reply to That would be nice

–If we take away tax cuts from the oil companies, isn’t there a chance that the unemployment rate will go up as the companies cut back to keep their investors happy? And wouldn’t a higher unemployment rate mean less tax dollars for the children? And if the profits of the oil companies fall because of the increased takes, doesn’t that mean less taxes for the Government?–

Such a miniscule amount of US tax money is going to feed starving children that your question only serves to beg the question: why should oil companies with record profits need subsidies for anything? They only employ people they need, so fairly taxing them is not a concern. If they need them, they?ll employ them. If they don?t, they won?t. Fairly taxing oil companies will never mean less tax revenue for the government.

–If we cut back on military spending, doesn’t that also mean less soldiers which also means adding to the unemployment rate and means fewer dollars for the children?–

This is a far cry from ?dismantling? the military. And no, if we use our resources wisely, cutting back on military spending need not translate into unemployment.

–Where are you going to find these politicians who are going to work to eliminate pork when the pork is what is keeping them elected? A new comer to politics who advocates cutting special projects in his/her district would never get elected since it would adversly affect the voters. And even if some did get elected, one term wouldn’t be enough time to get things done and they’d never get re-elected if the cuts they advocate meant jobs at home. So how do you correct this and get the right people in office, by your standards?–

That’ the problem, isn’t it? I support a line item veto for the President. And I think all ?unrelated pork? that is attached to bills should be struck as a matter of course. If a congress person wants to pass a spending bill for a project in his or her district, then put such a bill on the floor and let it stand or fall on its own merits.

–You are advocating that we spend billions of dollars to save dying children which is indeed a noble cause. Bush spent billions of dollars saving millions of people in Iraq. Are they less important than your children? Should we ignore them and their problems and focus solely on the starving children? Or should we spend our tax dollars saving the entire world from all problems?.–

I don?t believe in destroying a country in order to save it. The war was ill-conceived, poorly planned and miserably executed by a group of chicken hawk neo-cons with fanciful dreams of dominating the world. We?d do ourselves a lot more good feeding starving children. And it would cost much less.

–Have you finalized your plan yet? Remember, 1,2,3 children are dying while you’re still trying to come up with a plan. 1,2,3 – there go three more. Stop stalling and get this fixed. 1,2,3 you’re not trying hard enough.
BTW, what are your qualifications for solving the world’s problems? What makes you ideas that much better than all of those who have tried before you? I know your parents must be proud that they raised someone of such a superior intellect. After all, you can use words like sophistry in a sentence so you must be smart.
Why don’t you get elected and then you would have a better chance of completing your noble mission? It would be outstanding to have someone of your intellect and moral fiber in politics.–

My qualifications come from the insistent calls for me to come up with a solution. In any case, plans already exist. All I can do is summarize them for you. Or you can do a search on global hunger and see what?s going on. You give me far too much credit for having original solutions. I never claimed to, nor is that important. What is important is that we, as a nation, begin to seriously try living up to our own high standards.

A question

In reply to 1? 2? 3? There Goes Another

Therefore what?

Please be VERY specific.

By the way, the United Nations World Food Program says every five seconds. Where did you get three? And the bulk of the problem is in Africa.

So be VERY, VERY specific as to your proposed solution (you DO have a proposed solution, DON’T YOU?), and answer the “therefore what” question.

And considering epw will probably not answer (since this was just a thinly veiled disguise to, yet again, criticize the Bush administration), anyone else is certainly welcome to answer in his or her behalf.

Huge hurtle

In reply to A question

One of the reasons why government aid is ineffective, and private aid doesn’t have sufficient reach is the amount of political corruption in many parts of Africa. Aid gets skimmed or outright stolen. Those in need starve while theives prosper.

I don’t have a ready solution. I would propose that our governments work with other governments to find ways to reduce this corruption and theft – that could be a bigger contribution than increasing the government’s donations. Private charities may be better at getting aid directly to those in need because they have feet on the ground. Governments could find ways to help them.

This is a prime example where “throwing money” at the problem doesn’t work.

My family directly supports an orphanage in South Africa for aids babies. One of the congregation where my wife goes to church works there almost full time. I know evey dollar is improving the lives of some small child in Africa.

James

I’m overwhelmed …

In reply to 1? 2? 3? There Goes Another

To all my Republican loving respondents, thanks for doing so much to prove my point. I will try to respond to as many of you as I can, but I’m busy trying con my local government out of more welfare checks. (Just kidding, of course.)

And to OneAmazingWriter, my sincere appreciation for understanding the real message here and having the courage to speak out.

We wait with baited breath

In reply to I’m overwhelmed …

Please respond in the following format:

Problem:

Solution:

Not only will this make is easier to read, but far easier to understand WHAT solution you are providing to the problem…

Ohhh, I see the error of my ways

In reply to I’m overwhelmed …

So,
All along EPW, you actually had a hidden message, of higher meaning and purpose, buried within your trolling and baiting, and now we are all better people for it.

Naghhhhhhhh,

If you really had such a just and noble purpose, you would have just said it outright instead of being obscure.

My hats off to Amazinwriter for seeing something in you that is positive and meaningfull, but I think that speaks more about her good character then yours.

ABC hosts multiple fan, message boards for their t.v. shows. The boards are frequently assaulted by people making the same kind of statements you made. Actually, if I look far enough back, I think your 1-2-3 tirade was allready used in the Lost Plot Board.
So you are either the very same troll, or you ripped it off from somebody else then posted it here as if it was your own.

1 2 3 – it’s as easy as ABC, or maybe not

In reply to Ohhh, I see the error of my ways

ABC hosts multiple fan, message boards for their t.v. shows. The boards are frequently assaulted by people making the same kind of statements you made. Actually, if I look far enough back, I think your 1-2-3 tirade was allready used in the Lost Plot Board.
So you are either the very same troll, or you ripped it off from somebody else then posted it here as if it was your own.

This a wonderful bit of trivia. I?ll be sure to check out all the other network TV websites for more interesting and important information about the world. In the meantime, while you are perusing all that meaningful stuff on the ABC fan message boards, remember 1 2 3 ? another child dead, 1 2 3 ? and another . . . . Keep up the good work!

Proved your point?

In reply to I’m overwhelmed …

And what point would that be?

What are

In reply to Proved your point?

imaginary points worth nowadays? 🙂

(Added: It’s kinda like “Invisible Tape”. It’s not really invisible, or else you wouldn’t be able to find it in the store.)

There are none so blind as those who will not see

In reply to Proved your point?

Understand? Remember, 1 2 3 – another child gone, 1 2 3 – and one more, 1 2 3, 1 2 3, 1 2 3 … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … …

You’re welcome

In reply to I’m overwhelmed …

There are a lot of things in life that we become aware of and can’t seem to do much about. Sometimes all we can do is feel, and express the feeling. The good thing about feelings is that they all pass in time. Compassion grows from having felt a lot.
I get those missing children pictures in my mail, as most of us do in the States. I clip them out and tape them to my desk where I can see them, and I pause and care. I recignize that I am powerless, but I care anyway. Who knows? Perhaps one day one of those kids will cross my path and I will recognize him/her.

So where are all these children starving?

In reply to 1? 2? 3? There Goes Another

Not in this country. But in countries run by corrupt dictators, socialists, etc. Do you think this country (republicans and christians) should step in and run the rest of the world too?

Starvation is the worst where people have the least economic and political freedom. Countries
with the least poverty/starvation have the most economic and political freedom, and are based on capitalism and usually the Judeo-Christian ethic. It works every time its tried.

Here is one thing that I have done. What have you contributed?

In reply to So where are all these children starving?

Back in 1975 I started a company along with three other guys. Twenty years later that company employed 16,000 people. 16,000 good paying high tech jobs. That fed a lot of families. And continues to do so. The company ultimately was sold for $8.24 billion and merger into another company, but still provides employment for thousands. (I sold my interest in the company way too soon, so I didn’t make much at all.)

Four kids just out of school, working at crappy jobs for little more than minimum wage so they could put money into their own start-up business provided a good life for thousands just by providing a product that people wanted.

I’m a conservative and a Christian. And I bet I’ve done more for other people than you.

You should know better

In reply to Here is one thing that I have done. What have you contributed?

as a conservative and a Christian, than to think logic like this will have any effect on our hateful prat of a poster.

If anything, you have shown that you really are evil because you are not poor. Anyone that owns a business is one of those evil rich people we hear about all the time! ;\

Then again, I rarely see poor people paying wages to anyone else.

I know, every now and then….

In reply to You should know better

Once in a while lightening strikes, and some leftist is unable to ignore reality any longer and sees the light. Its very hard for them to admit that their entire world view is false. All we can do is put the facts in front of them and hope that eventually they will look.

Like I was taught to swim.

In reply to I know, every now and then….

Dad just threw me in!

Did it work?

In reply to Like I was taught to swim.

Did it work?

Of course it did.

In reply to Did it work?

When you don’t know for sure that someone’s going to be able to pull you out in time, you tend to learn fast. What’s more, you have learned that you can apply that to other situations in life.

You can’t do that any more though (well, more correctly, you can’t get [b]caught[/b] doing it) lest you be labeled a child abuser. In fact, I can’t think of a single thing that teaches self-reliance to a child that you can get by with any more!

The results are all around us… ever increasing generations of perpetual victims!

You were right

In reply to You should know better

You were right jd. I should know better. If you argue with an idiot long enough, eventually people won’t be able to tell the difference.

Way to go, stan

In reply to Here is one thing that I have done. What have you contributed?

This is quite an achievement. I have no doubt you’ve done a lot for other people.

Not in which country?

In reply to So where are all these children starving?

–Not in this country. But in countries run by corrupt dictators, socialists, etc.?

Does it matter? This is irrelevant.

–Do you think this country (republicans and christians) should step in and run the rest of the world too? —

Republicans and Christians = this country? Which country do you mean? Please remember that those who identify themselves as Republicans do not even constitute a majority in the US. Also, we?d all be better off recognizing the difference between actual Christians and the impostors who claim to be Christian. These fakers apparently have confused following Jesus Christ with sophistry, greed, cowardice, hypocrisy, theft, war-mongering and yes, ignoring the unnecessary death and suffering of innocent children due to starvation and hunger related diseases.

Remember 1 2 3 ? another child needlessly dies. What would Jesus do? Blame the Democrats? Blame socialists? Throw up a ton of smoke? Attack ?sinners?? Mimic the Republicans and say anything and everything to avoid having to face the horrible consequences of their own callous greed and indifference? I don?t think so. And that my friend makes our Republican boy emperor president and his phony right wing cheerleaders nothing more than bogus ?Christians,? the kind that are only in it for the votes.

Starvation is the worst where people have the least economic and political freedom. Countries
with the least poverty/starvation have the most economic and political freedom, and are based on capitalism and usually the Judeo-Christian ethic. It works every time its tried.

Again, this misses the point. Living in a ?capitalist? country, supposedly under the influence the Judeo/Christian ethic, does not absolve us from a moral obligation to try saving the child who will needlessly starve to death when you finish this sentence. 1 2 3 ? there goes yet one more innocent victim.

Of course its relevant.

In reply to Not in which country?

There are lots of examples. Korea is a good case study. Fifty years ago, North and South Korea had equal standards of living. Then the North became socialist and the south became more free. The South prospered and hunger is virtually unknown there. The North, even with aid from China and the aid it allows from the rest of the world can’t feed its people. No one knows how many have died of starvation. A few million by most estimates.

So, what can be done? The North Korean government won’t allow foreigh aid workers into the country, and all aid goes to the government. The government feeds the leaders first, then the army and party members. Then food is used as a weapon against their own population. Very little gets to the people who need it most.

Are you suggesting that we use military force to change the government there? Telling them your good intentions won’t work.

How about places like Ethopia? Food sent from the rest of the world is seized by various warloards who use it to feed their malitias and witheld from the people. Food can be a powerful weapon in the hands of people willing to starve their opposition.

Maybe we should the governments there too? And in most of the rest of Africa? Then we could actually fix the problem.

People were starving in Iraq while the government pocketed the proceeds from the oil for food program (and using it to bribe UN officials, and government officials in many european countries). Those people aren’t starving any more. They are able to feed themselves now that they have been freed from the fascist dictatorship. My impression was you were against setting 50 million people in Iraq and Afganistan free.

So, its not only relevant where people are starving, but its central. In most cases its the reason why people are starving. And its the reason why the solution is difficult.

Stop making excuses for Bush’s record of shame

In reply to Of course its relevant.

You just don’t get it do you? Stop making excuses and admit it. We’re not number one in the hit parade of generous nations. Under our “inspirational” Republican leadership, we’re doing as little as possible to help the children who are starving at the rate of one every three seconds of every day of every year. And that’s despite the fact that the President says “Americans are the most generous people on the face of the earth,” unless you define generosity as:
*building the most unnecessary war machine in recorded history to the tune of 400+ (admitted) billion a year
*wasting hundreds of billions more on a misguided, ill-conceived and miserably executed occupation of Iraq,
*lavishing hundreds of billions more on the wealthiest Americans.

Well, I guess that last one is generous as long you are a taxpaying American million or billionaire.

Can a true conservative or a true Christian support this shameful record? I really want to know.

I get it.

In reply to Stop making excuses for Bush’s record of shame

You hate George Bush.

You don’t give a ret’s ass about starving children. Or starving anything else. So why bring them into it at all? It is handy as a platform to tell everyone how awful you think Bush is I suppose.

Is that why you can’t name anything that you have done to help? Other than same vague, obviously silly ideas that someone else should do something.

If you would like to prove you’re not simply. . . .

In reply to Stop making excuses for Bush’s record of shame

….spewing partisan rhetoric, then you must compare the foreign aid approved in the budgets under the Bush Administration to ALL past administrations. However, I’ll settle for Jimmy Carter to the present.

1. Total foreign aid.

2. Foreign aid ear-marked for the hungry in Africa.

3. Foreign aid for AIDS relief, treatment, and reseach.

Both in real dollars and as a percentage of the total budget.

Show which administrations were Democrat, and which were Republican. And ESPECIALLY highlight the very “christain” Jimmy Carter administration.

Also, while you’re at it, please provide the same numbers for the United Nations. And detail what they have done, and what they have ignored.

P.S. Do you realize how foolish you look?

Two wrongs don’t make a right

In reply to If you would like to prove you’re not simply. . . .

As you already have these facts, why don?t you post them? The records will show that our previous governments were also reprehensible. I?ll just say two wrongs don’t make a right. Do the deplorable aid records of previous American administrations, Democrat and Republican, excuse the criminal indifference of the current bumper crop of “family values” “conservative” Republicans?

These self-proclaimed paradigms of “Christian morality” are standing by and allowing a child to starve to death every three seconds of every day of every year. And while they presume to lecture the world on “moral” behavior; with their silence and obfuscation, they are abetting mass starvation on a horrific scale. They are conveniently Christian when it comes to scaring up votes, nothing more, nothing less.

Yet, they go to church every Sunday. They smile and wink as their business cronies gorge themselves at the public trough. They talk about compassion and tolerance, but refuse to fund all birth control and disease control initiatives, save those that fit their narrow concept of proper sexual behavior. And irony of ironies, every year they toss more money down the drain than it would take to save the lives of those millions of starving children. In these respects, the current crew stands alone in their arrogant, repulsive hypocrisy. And yes, for this I find them beneath contempt. I would welcome a real change of heart from the President on down. And when the Dems eventually gain control, I promise I will be just as critical on this subject.

Two wrongs don’t make a right

In reply to Two wrongs don’t make a right

but three lefts do…..

Four make a complete circle

In reply to Two wrongs don’t make a right

–

Three lefts do!

In reply to Two wrongs don’t make a right

Perhaps your friends who are out saving whales and spotted owls could shift their attention (Hey, maybe all those starving children could eat whale and owl! Sally would really like them then!).

not irrelevant

In reply to Not in which country?

—Not in this country. But in countries run by corrupt dictators, socialists, etc.?

-Does it matter? This is irrelevant.

You really don’t even want a solution, as it would do away with your shrine.

Solutions have been offered, which you and those like you refuse to accept. You are exactly like the dictators in those countries who won’t let aid workers in. Therefore you and those like you are responsible for any lack of action. 1 2 3!

Give a man a fish.., teach a man to fish..,

In reply to 1? 2? 3? There Goes Another

I too am a child of the Sally Sturthers school of giving. *s*
At least I was.
I am cynical when it comes to charities.
How much of that money really goes to the needy and how much lines the pockets of those who are Administrating The Charity?
There have been bleak, desperate times in my life when I have been asked to give and my answer was, “Hey, I AM THE NEEDY right now. What do you have for me?” Dang, I never got a thing, but I did struggle through and overcome.

I do give my money to others in need, but I do it where I can see where it goes and I do it to help rebuild the person, not enable them.– Okay, I try. There are still con artists out there with a life of experience of being a Con verse my noob skills at recognizing them.

Sally

In reply to Give a man a fish.., teach a man to fish..,

just wanted those kids fattenned up so she could eat them 🙂

Yes, it’s all well and good

In reply to Give a man a fish.., teach a man to fish..,

No doubt you have suffered tough times and struggled through them. No one says you haven?t or that you shouldn?t be happy at having overcome the difficulties. Yet in spite of your successes and in spite of all the efforts of all caring people, starvation takes a child?s life every three seconds of every day of every year. And all the while, our born again President does what? While real Christians help however they can, our loudmouth, sanctimonious religious zealots do what? Can any one offer an answer?

Cheapskate nation

In reply to 1? 2? 3? There Goes Another

Here?s an interesting item:

Perception:
Polls have shown
that, on average, Americans
believe 24% of the federal budget
goes to development assistance.

Reality:
U.S. leaders allocate less
than 1% of the budget to aid (LAST
among wealthy nations).

Can you believe it? LAST among wealthy nations. Way to go Republicans! This is following Jesus? teaching?

Cheapskate nation part 2

In reply to Cheapskate nation

Here?s another interesting item about the boy emperor?s lies and posturing in front of the world community about the goal of eliminating starvation, hunger, disease and extreme poverty in the world. The full article by Jeffrey Sachs appears on the Financial Times at http://www.unmillenniumproject.org/documents/FinancialTimes11-07-05.pdf (All emphasis is mine.)

–?Roughly four-fifths of the $50bn increase (in aid) will come from the European Union, though Europe represents but two-fifths of the GNP of the donor countries. Notably, the pre-enlargement EU-15 have set a bold timetable to reach 0.56 per cent of GNP in aid by 2010 and the internationally agreed target of 0.7 per cent of GNP by 2015. Canada and Japan gave a nod to 0.7, but refused to commit to a timetable.
THE US DID WORSE, DENYING REPEATEDLY IN RECENT WEEKS IT HAD EVER PLEDGED 0.7, ALTHOUGH MR BUSH SIGNED ON TO THE MARCH 2002 MONTERREY CONSENSUS TO “MAKE CONCRETE EFFORTS TOWARDS THE TARGET OF 0.7 PER CENT”. Instead, the US cobbled together some small programmes backed by big spin. The new US effort against malaria is welcome, but $1.2bn over five years is paltry when $3bn each year is needed to fight the disease in Africa. The US five-year effort is LESS THAN ONE DAY OF PENTAGON SPENDING, and two cents of every $1,000 of US national income.? ?

My, my, my. It seems the boy emperor is not only a liar, but a bad one at that. Why is it that serious American Christians don?t rise up and give this bad boy and his hypocrite cronies the boot they so richly deserve?

This country

In reply to Cheapskate nation

This country still gives more to the rest of the world than the other industrial nations put together.

Add in private charities and the gap gets wider.

And tell us (since you seem to blame it on one political party), what the percentage was under any democrat you care to name?

Misleading Statistic

In reply to This country

–This country still gives more to the rest of the world than the other industrial nations put together. Add in private charities and the gap gets wider. —

Yes, in terms of absolute dollars, I’m sure you’re right. Not that this means much since we are also the wealthiest of all nations by far. As a percentage of what we could give, our “generosity” becomes a mere financial shell game. The following is excerpted from http://www.unmillenniumproject.org/documents/FTDec272005.pdf. Some day you will realize that US propaganda is the most effective in the world.

–At the UN world summit the leaders called on every developing country to prepare a “national development strategy” ambitious enough to achieve the MDGs (Millenium Development Goals). The current poverty reduction strategies submitted to the International Monetary Fund and World Bank by the poor countries do not reflect real needs, because the poorest nations are counseled by those institutions to keep their ambitions low, in line with modest aid flows.

The result is a poverty trap, in which donors pretend to help and the recipient governments pretend to lead poverty-reduction programmes. Cynicism abounds. US ambassadors privately shake their heads in despair, knowing that the US preaches poverty reduction but does not provide the resources to get the job done. The IMF whispers in the ear of the finance minister that as nice as the MDGs might be, it is the job of the finance minister not to dream, but to live with hard financial “realities”. Yet the reality that matters is that millions of children are dying each year in this financial charade. http://www.unmillenniumproject.org/documents/FTDec272005.pdf —

— And tell us (since you seem to blame it on one political party), what the percentage was under any democrat you care to name? —

Two wrongs don’t make a right. You obviously care about the needless starvation of tens of millions of innocent children. Just because the records of previous American administrations, Democrat and Republican, are also reprehensible, does this excuse the criminal indifference of the current bumper crop of “family values” “conservative” Republicans?

These paradigms of “Christian morality” are standing by and allowing a child to starve to death every three seconds of every day of every year. And while they presume to lecture the world on “moral” behavior; with their silence and obfuscation, they are abetting mass starvation on a horrific scale. Yet, they go to church every Sunday. They smile and wink as their business cronies gorge themselves at the public trough. They talk about compassion and tolerance, but refuse to fund all birth control and disease control initiatives, save those that fit their narrow concept of proper sexual behavior. And irony of ironies, every year they toss more money down the drain than it would take to save the lives of those millions of starving children. In this respect, the current crew stands alone in their arrogant, repulsive hypocrisy.

So tell us

In reply to Misleading Statistic

What did you give? Don’t be shy. Have you ever done anything at all? Or are you just a hypocrate who pretends to care?

Really?

In reply to Misleading Statistic

—This country still gives more to the rest of the world than the other industrial nations put together. Add in private charities and the gap gets wider. —

“Yes, in terms of absolute dollars, I’m sure you’re right. Not that this means much since we are also the wealthiest of all nations by far.”

So the next logical leap is that other nations could be wealthy by being more like us. And if the problem is as urgent as you think your rantings suggest, it’s obvious that we must force these countries to change to be like us… by using whatever force is necessary, right?

Yes

In reply to Really?

–So the next logical leap is that other nations could be wealthy by being more like us. —

You know, if another group of people slaughtered millions of indigenous people and stole whatever land they couldn’t get by other means, worked their duffs off, and then had the good fortune to do this as the industrial and technological revolutions were underway, and then combined that with the good fortune to emerge from a world war that destroyed the economies of all the other industrialized nations, why I guess you’re right. They would be wealthier. Otherwise your logic is flawed because your premise has no basis in reality. But it does hold up in the fantasy world that passes for economics among neo-conservatives.

The fact is that as a percentage of GNP, America’s giving barely amounts to a blip on the screen. But it does allow complacent folks to think they are being generous and pontificate about free markets.

You’ll have that in a small town.

In reply to Yes

“The fact is that as a percentage of GNP, America’s giving barely amounts to a blip on the screen. But it does allow complacent folks to think they are being generous and pontificate about free markets.”

That’ll happen when your own government eats up 60% of what you produce!

And in big countries

In reply to You’ll have that in a small town.

–That’ll happen when your own government eats up 60% of what you produce!–

… and then proceeds to spend it on everything and anything except those things that can really make a difference in the world. Bad leadership, not government, is the problem.

That “argument” has always been shallow and weak

In reply to Misleading Statistic

The FACT that we give more means nothing? We either are giving more than anyone else or we are NOT giving more than anyone else.

To weakly sit back and cry that more is not enough based on other countries can’t afford as much is petty and ungrateful.

None of this “we can afford more” bs. What about all the other things people like YOU expect the government to pay for? Should we take money away from our schools and give it to people that are doing nothing to improve their own situation? Our kids are more important than their kids are, when it comes to spending OUR money.

Should we not up the money into roads?

Should we increase the tax on these rich people you hate so much? Remember, if it wasn’t for a rich person owning that business, you would not be working now, unless you “work” for the government. But then again, THEIR checks get paid for by the same rich people, although that money was stolen by the government instead of freely negotiated in exchange for services rendered by an employee.

I do not understand the hate and jelousy people like you have for people that have worked hard to be successful.

It is your hypocrisy that is shining bright.

Don’t hold your breath waiting

In reply to This country

Because as everyone knows, Democrats are not Christians, so they can not be held to any kind of moral standard of caring for people, right?

What past administrations have or have not down is not the point.

What is being down now is not the point.

Someone having an almost insane obsession with their hate of Bush and Christians IS the point.

From that same one’s actions, we also see that if these 1 2 3 kids live or die is not his problem. His only concern is that the hated Republicans and more hated Christians are not resolving the issues that have been created by people who are neither Republican NOR Christian.

I’d still like to know

In reply to Don’t hold your breath waiting

why all of these babies weren’t saved during Clinton’s 8 years. He wasn’t a Republican and he certainly wasn’t a Christian so why wasn’t the problem resolved back then? He dismantled the military and raised taxes like pew wanted and still the babies were dying. What’s wrong with this picture?

How convenient

In reply to Don’t hold your breath waiting

Jd, you conveniently absolve yourself and your leaders once again. Why are you carrying water for hypocrites who are abetting the mass starvation of millions of innocent children?

That is not what I have done

In reply to How convenient

I have shown that the leaders and myself are doing more NOW than you and the past leaders have ever done.

I have also stated clearly that it is directly the fault of the leaders AND citizens of these countries that the “mass starvation of millions of innocent children” is happening. Throwing out emotional BS does not make your case. The people from that country are to blame and YOU are absolving THEM, yourself, and past leaders that this has been going on for generations.

People like YOU wanting to throw more of my money at the symptoms only make the problem worse. Feeling is not a solution. Think. A new concept I know, but try it sometime.

How do we make it so these people who have been starving for generations are able to take care of themselves?

Throwing money at the symptoms is not a solution.

Tell us what the solution is that you want. We are all just dying to find out. You have thrown a lot of blame on Christians and the current administration, but have not once recommended what they can do that would resolve this issue once and for all.

No,

In reply to How convenient

JD wasn’t absolving anyone. He was telling you that you are the biggest hypocrite of all. Maybe it was too subtle for you, since JD told you in a nice way.

However I’m not so nice. You, pew or epw, are a liar and a world-class hypocrite who has never done anything constructive. I can tell you what you “think” about any subject you care to name, since I’ve seen your type before.

You, pew, don’t give a rats ass about starving children, or starving anything. You have never done anything about any of the problems that you pretend to care about, and you never will. You are a close-minded, intolerant, hateful bigot.

your right

In reply to No,

I am nicer! 😀

Just mellowing in my “old age” I guess! ;\

And yes, that is what I the idea I was getting at. B-)

Some people

In reply to No,

have to control others. Others think the only way they can get ‘up’ is by dragging others ‘down’. Both behaviors are anti-freedom and anti-social in my book.

and talk about groups instead of individuals

In reply to Some people

we hear all the time about “the rich”, and “the poor”. The “middle class” and the attack on it all the time by the rich.

Which political party is it that concentrates on groups instead of individuals?

Which party says “it isn’t your fault”?

Which party has created a victomization mentality, that is responsible for the current condition of the poor?

Which party seeks to demonize and punish people that are successful?

Which party will EVER say someone is too stupid to be able to do more than the most meanial of jobs?

Which party wants to steal from one class of people, and give that money to people that have no right to it, just so they can say that THEY care?

RIGHT NOW, which political party is trying to say that requireing a photo ID to vote is a violation of your rights?

RIGHT NOW, which political party does not WANT voter fraud to be stopped?

You got it, Democrats, right down the line.

The party that stands AGAINST a lot, and FOR very little.

and fon’t forget.

In reply to Some people

Which party pits one group against the other while pretending to be friends to both?

Death and Taxes

In reply to 1? 2? 3? There Goes Another

As the old saying goes “As certain as death and taxes”. I can not stomach another attempt by you to gratify your own ego by making others feel guilty (In case you haven?t figured out, I am an atheist). I know that most of these things are out of my control and I detest you insinuating that I am a bad person because of it, fucking hypocrite [b]get off your bloody high horse[/b]. I will save you the trouble epw, turn off your monitor, block your ears and hum loudly for you will not like what I have to say.

As I said this is out of our control, we can?t fix the world, hell we (human beings/homo sapiens) are what is wrong with it. People die every day, disease, famine, old age, war, but our numbers are still increasing. This is cold yes, but more children are born than killed and it is naive in the extreme to think we can save all of them.

World wide population is currently at 6 billion plus, we are reaching the limit of what this planet can support. So many people a dying in natural disasters (Which I would wager aren?t that much more powerful than 100 years ago) because there are a lot more people to kill. Several experts (diplomatic, environmental scientists) have predicted that very soon (20 to 40 years) a tragedy will befall the human race which kills a large portion of the global population. The two most popular guesses of how are famine and disease. I?d put a considerable sum on the fact that everyone?s favourite method of death, war will play a good part in whatever awaits us.

Predicting doom,
As certain as death and taxes.

When disaster waves, I try not to wave back.

In reply to Death and Taxes

–I can not stomach another attempt by you to gratify your own ego by making others feel guilty?

If you feel guilty, too bad; deal with it.

–I know that most of these things are out of my control and I detest you insinuating that I am a bad person because of it, ******* hypocrite get off your bloody high horse.?

Don?t sugarcoat it; tell me what you really think. Detest me all you want. I am not insinuating anything about you. And I?m not insinuating anything about our hypocritical leaders. I?m saying very plainly that George W. Bush, et al, and the make believe ?Christians,? and make believe ?conservatives? in his administration are excrement. Unfortunately, some people so identify themselves with this crowd, that when I scorn the leaders, they mistakenly assume that I am scorning all conservatives and all Christians. I?m not.

–As I said this is out of our control, we can?t fix the world, hell we (human beings/homo sapiens) are what is wrong with it. People die every day, disease, famine, old age, war, but our numbers are still increasing. This is cold yes, but more children are born than killed and it is naive in the extreme to think we can save all of them.?

This does not qualify as a reason for our government to ignore and abet the starvation of one child every three seconds of every hour of every day of every year. And if our sainted leaders want to use this as an excuse, then can they please spare us all the religious bs? It?s enough to make a sane man puke.

–World wide population is currently at 6 billion plus, we are reaching the limit of what this planet can support.?

Yet our benighted Republican administration has gone out of its way to stop responsible sex education, as well as the use of condoms and other birth control measures, here and in the developing world. And you wonder why we think they?re buffoons?

–Several experts (diplomatic, environmental scientists) have predicted that very soon (20 to 40 years) a tragedy will befall the human race which kills a large portion of the global population. The two most popular guesses of how are famine and disease.?

?When disaster waves, I try not to wave back.? — Mason Cooley

?It is easy to face Death and Fate, and the things that sound so dreadful. It is on my muddles that I look back with horror?on the things that I might have avoided.?
E.M. Forster

–I?d put a considerable sum on the fact that everyone?s favourite method of death, war will play a good part in whatever awaits us.–

I feel silly

In reply to 1? 2? 3? There Goes Another

After going back, doing a cool down, and then re-reading this discussion, I feel very silly.

It is clear that this was a troll attempt all along. EPW has not answered any direct questions, or provided any logical argument to defend his rants.

The most clever points of his counter posts rate along a pee-wee herman “I know you are, but what am I?”

He hung the hook out there, and like a big flounder, I took it and didn’t let go.

Even worse, I broke my own rule of not getting personal, even if it is in return. Attack the idea, not the person. I am sorry for this epw.

Neither here, nor in your ChickenHawk trolls have you had anything valid to say. Both are clear partisan attacks by someone who is clearly filled with a lot of rage and hate.

I have enough issues in my life, than to allow your hate to influince me.

I am out of here. Good luck all.

My mistake was

In reply to I feel silly

My mistake was thinking he might actually care, at least a little bit, about the topic he brought up. Well, he proved me wrong about that.

Thanks, JD (really)

In reply to I feel silly

We?d all be better off, including me of course, if we didn?t get personal. The anonymity inherent in this type of communication makes it all too easy to forget the rules we usually follow in the ?real? world. It seems to go with the territory. Your rule about attacking the idea, not the person, is a good one, even though it?s difficult, and we all fall short at times. I haven?t taken anything personally and I hope you haven?t either.

To The Ring

In reply to I feel silly

Hey JD,
Don’t sell yourself short.
That things may have gone to a personal level show 2 things.
1. You cared enough about how ideas/opinions/emotions were thrown about that you wanted to make a difference for the better.
2. No matter how much you practice rational thought and logical debate, those with a life time’s worth of experience in pushing buttons and provoking a personal reaction have the upper hand just by sheer hours of practicing their skills.

Have you worked out your WOW bugs yet? I found that a couple hours of unrestrained game combat to be a wonderfull release.
I’ll let yah beat up one of my low level toons in a duel if you want. *Laugh*

1-2-3 another born out of wedlock

In reply to 1? 2? 3? There Goes Another

You rail against the right for wanting morals.
You worry for the poor and dying.
You miss completely where they come from.
Children born to AIDs patients, don’t grow up
with parents. They starve and die.
Shouldn’t we stop the spread of AIDS.
We know that it is spread by homo sex.
How many lives would be saved by banning that?
1-2-3 don’t count that.
Women who graduate from HS, get married then
have children have only a 15% chance of poverty.
Women who drop out and have children have 85%
chance of being in poverty thier whole life.
Thier children have very little chance.
So, we should ignore the menace of underage sex?
1-2-3 don’t stop them.
What you miss about Christian beliefs is the
belief in FREE WILL. God gives us free will to
do good things for people. It is wonderful
that you volunteer to help out, that you give
money to charities.
Government taxes are not free will. If you have
the government run it all, there is no free will.
If I force you to help an old lady across the
street, it will not count towards a merit badge.
I want my federals
to keep me safe from outside threats
and locals keep me safe from domestic crimminals.
You hate people that use Morals and Judgement
about how lives should be conducted.
The right is attacking problems at the root.
Think about where these problems come from,
not just the fruit that they have borne.

Yes, the right is wanting morals.

In reply to 1-2-3 another born out of wedlock

–You rail against the right for wanting morals.-

Please define ?morals.?

–You worry for the poor and dying.
You miss completely where they come from.–

Irrelevant – see Luke 10: 27 – 37

–Children born to AIDS patients, don’t grow up
with parents. They starve and die.
Shouldn’t we stop the spread of AIDS.–

Of course.

–We know that it is spread by homo sex.
How many lives would be saved by banning that?
1-2-3 don’t count that.–

I?ve put in call to Mullah Omar, the moral leader of an Islamic religious movement that also believes in banning homosexuality and all other forms of so called immoral sexual behavior. While we wait for his answer, I propose we go a couple of steps further. Let?s ban heterosexual sex since AIDS is also transmitted this way. And while we?re at it, let?s ban all transfusions and all medical injections, since these techniques may also infect people with AIDS. You might as well be thorough. Or we could simply acknowledge that the epidemic is chiefly caused by ignorance, superstition, fear, stigmatization of AIDS patients, misinformation and outright lies from ?religious? leaders the world over, and last but not least, the American government?s ludicrous stand for abstinence as the only acceptable method of controlling the spread of disease.

–Women who graduate from HS, get married then
have children have only a 15% chance of poverty.
Women who drop out and have children have 85%
chance of being in poverty thier whole life.
Thier children have very little chance.
So, we should ignore the menace of underage sex?
1-2-3 don’t stop them.–

Sex is not a menace. Fear, ignorance and superstition are. You can?t wage war on human biology and expect a pleasant outcome. Since abstinence among human beings has never been realized on a large scale anywhere on earth, I think it?s a waste of time to hold this up as a response to children having children.

–What you miss about Christian beliefs is the
belief in FREE WILL. God gives us free will to
do good things for people. It is wonderful
that you volunteer to help out, that you give
money to charities.–

Free will – I?m all for it. I only wish the so-called ?moral? right understood that free will does not mean the freedom to do only what they consider “moral.” As a determinant of human behavior, free will is vastly overrated. When it comes to human life, we are very much more along for the ride than driving the car.

–Government taxes are not free will. If you have
the government run it all, there is no free will.
If I force you to help an old lady across the
street, it will not count towards a merit badge.-

But Madame gets across the street safely, and that’s the point, is it not?

–I want my federals
to keep me safe from outside threats
and locals keep me safe from domestic crimminals.–

So do I, And maybe if they?d stop wasting so much money on follies like the boy emperor?s Iraqi adventure and tax breaks for the ?struggling? wealthy, they could do a proper job.

–You hate people that use Morals and Judgement
about how lives should be conducted.–

And just who would that be? I hate phonies and hypocrites who are only willing to send other people?s children to war. I hate thieves who are willing to degrade my country for the sake of a bunch of fat cat corporate pay masters. I hate people who denigrate science and demonize others to foster their own ambitions and lust for power. If you think these people are moral, than I?m afraid you don?t know the meaning of the word. Morality is not confined to prescriptions about sexual behavior and laissez faire capitalism.

–The right is attacking problems at the root.–

The right is attacking people, not problems. For the rightwing, people are the problem. This is why the right is always doomed to failure. It’s just a question of how many innocent people they will harm in the process.

–Think about where these problems come from,
not just the fruit that they have borne.–

Ok. Starvation is the result of a lack of nourishment. Famine is a lack of nourishment on a massive scale. Famine on a massive scale can be caused by:
*extreme over population
*enduring climate change that renders agriculture and natural food growth impossible
*intentional disruption and interruption of relief efforts
*closing borders to prevent migration to arable land and potable water
*paying lip service to relief efforts while sabotaging and under funding them
*using ?morality? to justify opposition to coordinated global famine relief.

1…2…3…

In reply to 1? 2? 3? There Goes Another

1 2 3…another 1 2 3…another.
Is anyone else tired of this sh*t? Wha wha wha wha wha wha children are dying wha wha wha… starving, hunger related disease.

Look I will be honest with you, who gives a F**K!! I don’t. What ever happened to the laws of nature and letting nature take its course. Survival of the fittest, only the strong survive. If you really cared about this at all you would not have posted this. You would have been too busy shoveling another sandwich into some kids mouth because they are too lazy to go get their own food. Too lazy to move to a place that can grow crops. Dont give me this bullsh*t about no being capable either. You got 2 legs…you got mobility, its not like these people have a whole lot to carry with them. If you really wanted to help them DONT !!!! Let the die off and eventually there will be enough food to feed them, nature has a way of evening things out and humans tend to get in the way.

1 2 3…1 2 3 die for all i care, the US get sh*t on soo much by other people and other countries for not doing enough. I can guarantee you this, whatever the US has done it more than likely is 10 time more than any other country.

Lets take a look back in history, Uh oh Germany is going to take over the Europe Help Us Help Us !!!! The US gets involved, volunteers its own soldiers to die for another countries cause.

Uh oh, Germany’s at it again, help help. The US tried to stay neutral, selling arms to both side until Japan attack US territory. Hey the US is back to help. Single handedly started the very first EFFECTIVE push against the Germans in French territory. Thats right the US basically handed France its country back. Check history folks its there.

This happened again in Korea and Vietnam. These countries were divided and someone asked for help, the US answered the call. Neither war was won but they poured troops in to help.

Kuwait is about to be invaded, US can you help…why yes they can and boy did they ever. Redeemed themselves from the Korea and Vietnam screwups.

Uh oh, whats this, the US attacked on its home land, they are asking for help. England…..anyone else? Austrailia, thanks guys. Could someone please shut France up. Useless twits, lucky they arent speaking German right now. Guess thats it. Thats ALL that was ready to initially help the US, not the UN, not even my home country (Germany) wanted to initially.

After that I hoped that the US would no longer provide help to any other country. And why should they now? Give us one good reason why? Because they are a “Christian Nation”. BS, let them die, let all the children die, and their parents are fitting of a death as well for bringing them into this world.

1 2 3…eat it Jr. 1 2 3… so long little Suzie
1 2 3…bye bye you little rugrats. You are not the problem of the US or any other institution but your own. 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3…

Heute Techrepublik, morgen die Welt!

In reply to 1…2…3…

SEIG HEIL baby.
Geben Sie meinen Respekt zum der Fuehrer.
Schlie?lich ein ehrlicher rechter Fl?gel Republikaner.

And that about covers it

In reply to Heute Techrepublik, morgen die Welt!

We have now gone from one crazy extreme at one end of thought to the other crazy extreme at the other.

One says it is all the evil Christian Republicans fault that these people have done nothing to better the situation of the starving of the world that have actually done nothing but make their own situation worse.

The other says who cares because it is not a problem of his making, nor his concern.

Both have a few valid points, but both are closer to being raving lunitics than anything else.

Oh well, time for lunch.

Throwing up hands.

In reply to And that about covers it

I don’t think it’s so much “who cares because it’s not a problem of my making”, it’s “I’ve tried and tried and these people keep on doing this to themselves and how many more chances are they going to get?”.

In our case, we talked to a new official today. I felt better that she seemed more concerned than the last person we talked to that she replaced. At first she thought we were trying to get custody of the (seven, as a reminder) children, but we emphasized that, no, that’s not our objective (although we would care for them in our home temporarily if that would become necessary), that we wanted the mother to get help with her problems that were keeping her from being a competent mother, and if necessary, stand over her and make her do it.

She talked the talk… she seemed genuinely appalled after reading just their past dealings with this mother (and I provided 15 more pages)… we’ll just have to wait and see if she walks as good as she talks.

GOOD LUCK!

In reply to Throwing up hands.

I have not heard back from the sister-in-law yet (don’t know what the hold up is. will have to resend message to her).

Good to hear SOMEONE is listening to you, for the kids sake.

Hope it goes well.

Good to see some people care enough to DO something about kids being mistreated.

JD – No I am not stable

In reply to And that about covers it

I will admit that I am not as stable of a person that most people are, but I am not afraid to let people know what I am TRUELY thinking and how I REALLY feel. I view it like this, if you cant be honest about how you feel and about what you think then you automatially have removed and importance of what you have to say about anything, you are a liar, plain and simple. I dont play the a$$ kissing games, I dont do politics at work, and in the grand scheme of life I believe NOTHING IS FREE. Equal effort must be made on all parts, and If no one pulls their own weight, take them outside and shoot the MOFO.

I know

In reply to JD – No I am not stable

From prior conversations, I knew you would take being unstable in the best possible way! 😀

I have been known to be rather “abrasive” myself and don’t believe candy coating everything helps.

On the other hand, depending on your tone will depend on if people will listen to you long enough to get your message before dismissing you.

It is a shame that these kids have been sentinced to death by their criminal parents, but there is nothing I can do about it.

Continueing to throw money at the symptoms has only made the situation worse.

Can’t save everyone, and people that don’t make a decent effort will sink or swim based on their own efforts. 🙁

[Author]

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