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1? 2? 3? There Goes Another

By Peter Warren ·
In the world today, on each and every day of each and every year, a child starves to death or dies from hunger related diseases every three seconds. 1... 2? 3? there goes one. 1? 2? 3? and another 1? 2? 3? and another 1... .2? 3? one more???.

And what is the response of our government, the ?Christian values? people in power in America? The silence is deafening isn?t it.

1?2?3? another child 1?2?3? and another. While the ?Christian family values? Republicans plough hundreds of billions to the wealthiest Americans, while they pour hundreds of billions into Iraq, and hundreds more into our war machine, remember - 1? 2 ? 3? there goes another.

While the ?Christian? right fights against birth control, reproductive choice and AIDS vaccines; while it wastes our time and money on futile attempts to outlaw all things sexual outside of marriage between one man and one woman; while it rails against homosexuality and vilifies its opponents, remember - 1? 2? 3? another child gone.

While Republican supporters twist all logic in a vain attempt to be both Christian and free-market capitalists, remember - 1 ? 2 ? 3, another child dies

The farcical tragedy of America?s ?Christian family values? Republicans and ?Christian? right is that they are even less Christian than I am. 1? 2? 3? 1? 2? 3??................... ?????????????????????????????????????.

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Taxes aren't necessarily evil

by TonytheTiger In reply to Basic lack of common sens ...

But the way some of them are levied appears to be unethical to say the least. Ultimately, consumers pay all taxes, so consumption is what should be taxed (and in my personal opinion, the only thing that should be taxed). This is going on a tangent, but since companies don't pay tax anyway, why on earth are we taxing them? All it does is make more work for them keeping track of it, which ultimately adds to the cost of the product or service, without adding any value to it! You add this cost up for every company in the country, and it adds up to several hundred BILLION dollars every year that is, basically, thrown down the toilet. It doesn't add value to the product, and the government doesn't get it, so what good is it?

(and by the way, I think these congresspersons who are pushing for increasing the tax on oil company profits are complete idiots, no matter their party. Where are they going to get the money to pay these additional taxes? I'll tell you where: from you and me! the same place they get the money to pay their existing taxes!)

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What nonsense.

by stan In reply to Basic lack of common sens ...

Nobody mentioned that taxes are evil. The point was who actually pays taxes. (The people who work and actually produce things, for those who don't know.)

Try to focus.

Here is a really simple lesson in simple, basic economics. Suppose I bake a loaf of bread and sell it. Suppose it costs me $.90 to produce that bread and I sell it for $1.00, resulting in a profit of ten cents.

Now, suppose some politicial decides that people selling bread are making too much profit, and people are too fat anyway, and decides to tax each loaf of bread produced twenty five cents. That makes my cost to produce a loaf of bread go up to $1.15. Do you really think I'm going to still sell it for $1.00? I'm going to still sell it for more than my cost to make it, or I will go out of business very quickly. So, I'm going to pass the tax along, and sell that loaf of bread for $1.25, not $1.00 and the consumer will be paying the tax and I'll just be collecting the tax and sending it to the government.

My accountant will list my gross sales as $1.25 and taxes paid as $.25 and now you know far more about economics that you did a few minutes ago.

"And since the Church does not have to pay taxes, all of us are subsidizing the Catholic Church, as well as every other organized religion practicing in the US."

And the only way taxes could be subsidizing churches is if they are using services paid for by taxes, greater than the taxes paid. By that definition taxes subsidize lots of leftists, who produce little and line up for every handout available.

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Take the next step

by Peter Warren In reply to Basic lack of common sens ...

Except that leftists pay taxes, religions don't. But thanks anyway for the basic lesson in economics. You put it very clearly. So why not take the next step and explain why you are complaining about taxes? Isn't the real problem the way they're misspent? That's my point. As long as the taxes are fair, the money has to come from somewhere doesn't it? And yet, for the so-called conservative right, the answer to every problem is to cut taxes. So again I'll ask you: Why not eliminate all taxes tomorrow?

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I'm not sure

by stan In reply to Basic lack of common sens ...

I'm not sure how you thought I was complaining about taxes. I said "Nobody mentioned that taxes are evil."

But if you want to tax the rich you will have to tax net worth instead of income. Many very rich people have very little income. John Kerry is worth around one billion, and paid almost no income tax. Teddy Kennedy is another who is very rich by any definition and has very little actual income. (Both of them are very much in favor of "taxing the rich" by taxing income.)

Taxing income taxes those who are trying to become rich.

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re: The next step

by TonytheTiger In reply to Basic lack of common sens ...

"Isn't the real problem the way they're misspent?"

Not all of the problem. More of it has to do with the efficiency. You see, it goes through the beuraucracy twice. Once when it is collected, and again when it is spent. There is nothing that can be done about this short of giving the government less money to work with.

I wouldn't eliminate ALL taxes, but I would change the way they are collected, and what they are spent on.

Tax only consumption. Not income and not wealth. Consumers pay all taxes anyway (through businesses passing their costs to the consumer), so why not just be up front about it?

Spend tax money only on infrastructure. Police, fire, military, roads, water and sewer, etc. (NOT social programs. NOT education. NOT disaster relief (except repairing infrastructure). Private business can do all of these things better and much more efficiently.)

They'll only need a fourth of what they're getting now, and we'll be able to help 3 times as many people as we help now, and 90% of our social problems would solve themselves.

The problem is implementing it. Those at the top of the wealth/power mountain (mostly old-money democrats) believe that only a few of the brighest minds (in their opinion: them!) are capapable of properly using this country's power, and they don't like to share! They punish those trying to climb that mountain by taxing them (and, as with most punishment, the object is to deter the punishable 'offense'), and demonize them to those who aren't trying to climb.

Unfortunately, enough of the right people aren't fed up enough with the status-quo to do anything about it, so it probably won't change any time soon.

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Businesses

by TonytheTiger In reply to Clarification

don't pay taxes because: The cost is included in the price of their product or service (people who don't understand this are the ones who also fail to believe that the government consumes over 60% of the GDP in this country). Since churches don't have a salable product or service, they don't pay taxes. It has nothing to do with religion. There are many organizations that do not have a salable product or service, and thus do not pay taxes.

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Aghh,, the trolls are everywhere

by WingedMonkey In reply to 1? 2? 3? There Goes Anoth ...

Gee, I only wish the Chrisians had the power to make and enact such actions that EPW credits them with. Not sure which of the 168 flavors of Christianity he/she is shovelling on.
Obviously a post ment to incite hurt, anger and bring on retribution, all while the original poster runs away and is never to be heard from again.
What the heck is a republican Christian anyway? Does the Pope, either of the two, know about this and endorse it?

An't it just kind of funny on how one day a certain group/belief/movement is discredited as being small and nonconsequential to world events in the, "Big picture," and then yet another day the same group is vilified as being the source of all that is evil?

Come on, really, we all know that the true source of all evil is grandma wearing spandex.

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very well said

by jdclyde In reply to Aghh,, the trolls are eve ...

This was not a "well thought out" or "meaningful" discussion started by our poster. Nothing but flamebait and then sit back and enjoy that he/she got a rise out of everyone with a deliveratly stupid and inacurate "discussion".

If he/she really felt this way, he/she would be too busy over in these countries doing something to help. The stupid and lazy will always try to accuse others of not caring, while they are doing nothing to end the problem themselves.

Oh, I missed the part about supporting documents? Oh well, he/she didn't care that much either.

Everyone has their charities. I spend my efforts with the cancer society.

Maybe the Christian Republicans can write up a grant to give to the religious charities that go over there? Oh wait, that wouldn't make the poster happy either because the money was givin to a religious group to do something. Stupid people don't like that, even though it has been supported by the Supreme court. Oh, facts and reality are always such a downer to the stupid... And our poster is definately stupid.

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We get your point.

by Peter Warren In reply to very well said

You think, oh excuse me, you know I'm stupid and an evil person. Do you have anything else to offer? Or is this it?

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Not "and"

by TonytheTiger In reply to We get your point.
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