General discussion

  • Creator
    Topic
  • #2152254

    A German’s view of Islam

    Locked

    by sleepin’dawg ·

    [i]This is by far the best explanation of the Muslim terrorist situation I have ever read. His
    references to past history are accurate and clear. Not long, easy to understand, and well worth the read. The author of this email is said to be Dr. Emanuel Tanay, a well known and well respected psychiatrist.[/i]

    [b][i][u]A German’s View on Islam[/b][/i][/u]

    A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II,
    owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many
    German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our
    attitude toward fanaticism. “Very few people were true Nazis,” he
    said, “but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more
    were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the
    Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let
    it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had
    lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost
    everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.”

    We are told again and again by “experts” and “talking heads” that
    Islam is the religion of peace, and that the vast majority of
    Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified
    assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish
    the spectra of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.

    The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history.
    It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one
    of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who
    systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout
    Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honour- kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque.
    It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape
    victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.

    The hard quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the
    “silent majority,” is cowed and extraneous.

    Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live
    in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the
    murder of about
    20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant.

    China’s huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese
    Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people.

    The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way
    across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the
    systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by
    sword, shovel, and bayonet.

    And, who can forget Rwanda , which collapsed into butchery. Could it
    not be said that the majority of Rwandans were “peace loving”?

    [i] History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all
    our posers of reason we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated
    of points: Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence.Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don’t
    speak up, because like my friend from Germany , they will awaken one
    day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.[/i]

    Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs,
    Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and
    many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak
    up until it was too late.

    As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the
    only group that counts; the fanatics who threaten our way of life.

    Lastly, anyone who doubts that the issue is serious and just
    deletes this email without sending it on, is contributing to the
    passiveness that allows the problems to expand. So, extend yourself
    a bit and send this on and on and on! Let us hope that thousands,
    world wide, read this and think about it, and send it on – before
    it’s too late.

    Emanuel Tanay, M.D.

All Comments

  • Author
    Replies
    • #2974405

      I was with you right up until the very last paragraph.

      by charliespencer ·

      In reply to A German’s view of Islam

      Which I can’t believe you included. Anyone who encourages me to forward an e-mail immediately loses credibility with me regarding the subject under discussion. How will forwarding an e-mail inspire the peaceful Islamic majority to abandon or take action against the militant minority?

      • #2974392

        It was “cut and paste” as received. I didn’t edit anything.

        by sleepin’dawg ·

        In reply to I was with you right up until the very last paragraph.

        Even the lead in is unedited (although TR formatting was installed to match the original). Make of it what you will.

        I thought it thought provoking and I do not wholly agree with some of it. If you remember I have often expressed the opinion, “The only Muslim that can be trusted, is a dead one.” I also know that, that is an extremely biased and prejudiced statement, for which I have reasons for, but which I won’t bore you with by belaboring them. They’re MY reasons; that’s sufficient.

      • #2972537

        I agree with Palmetto

        by .martin. ·

        In reply to I was with you right up until the very last paragraph.

        I agree with most of it, up to the last paragraph.

        but the send on to others results in me hitting the delete button. 🙂

      • #2972499

        When people disagree

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to I was with you right up until the very last paragraph.

        Funny how something that has nothing to do with the content would in your mind take away credibility from anything.

        You agree with the sentiment in the post or you don’t. Deciding to share something you have said you agree with is a natural next step, is it not?

        As for what is inspired or not, if you see there is a dangerous situation, would people be better off if they are pre-warned or not?

        Is there something about the main ideas that you don’t WANT to agree with, so are looking for a reason to disagree by finding a minor flaw somewhere/anywhere?

        When I get such things, after I read up on them some, I will pass them along, but often modify the guilt trip at the end. The ideas are not suspect just because of the “send to everyone or you will get excessive gas” warning at the end.

        • #2972496

          Responses

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to When people disagree

          When I see a ‘forward to everyone’ at the end of a post, it implies to me that the poster has copied and pasted the text, a technique the Dawg says he did here. I’ve received e-mails from friends where it was obvious the text was copied and pasted. The first paragraph usually starts out as something I can recognize the sender agrees with. Subsequent paragraphs wander away from principles I know the sender to hold, and often end completely opposed to what I know the sender to think or feel. When I contact the sender and ask if he has read the entire text, they often respond in the negative. Upon re-reading they are surprised to find the complete content of what they’ve forwarded.

          A closing “forward to everyone” paragraph is my red flag that the sender or poster often has not read the entire text.

          Also, around here it’s common for someone to paste something they disagree with as a conversation starter. This is often accompanied by a ‘What do you think?’ While starting a converastion may be their intent, the poster often fail to indicate whether he is in agreement or disagreement. This isn’t the case with Dawg’s post, but it does happen. This usually sets off my troll alarm.

          I put more credence in a concept someone rephrases in their own words along with a link to the original material than a copy and paste job. Doing so tells me the poster has a grasp of the ideas. Again, this isn’t true in Dawg’s case; maybe that’s why I had a hard time believing he left in the paragraph.

          Copy and paste generates unnecessary duplicate search engine results. A simple link back to the original material is always preferable for that reason alone. No link to the original makes it harder for the reader of the opportunity to read any questions and replies on the original author’s web page. Searching for the author’s page is often complicated by the previously mentioned clogged search results.

        • #2972308

          Funny thing

          by the scummy one ·

          In reply to When people disagree

          I just read one in my email, at the end it stated to pass it to 20 people or bad things would happen, however if passed, good things will happen.
          Then the trip got much busier citing dates like
          in 1958 someone got it and forwarded it and won the lotto, one person that recieved it did not forward it, and lost his job a few days later. Then after losing his job, he rushed, found it and forwarded it and got rich.
          Then in the 60’s someone else did not forward it, and his son got really sick, he then forwarded it and his son miraculously got better. Then in the 70’s — I stopped reading the BS and went along with other things.

    • #2974393

      Enemies of Civilization

      by road-dog ·

      In reply to A German’s view of Islam

      You can tell a lot about an enemy by the results of his intentions.

      One need only look at nations run under Islamic law to see what awaits anyone willing to allow it to pass.

      Fundamentalist Islam desires to end our culture. Look at the middle east to see what they would like to replace it.

      Islamic fundamentalists do not acknowledge to right of other cultures and religions to exist. At some point the civilized world will have to decide to eradicate it in self-defense. At that point, the Muslim world will have to decide to take back their hijacked religion. Either that or suffer that same fate as the German aristocrat.

      • #2974385

        Sounds like

        by santeewelding ·

        In reply to Enemies of Civilization

        Curing cancer with exigence.

        • #2974383

          More like

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Sounds like

          cutting off a rotted limb to save a life.

        • #2974344

          Read my above comment. I’d just bury them in the sand. X-(

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to Sounds like

          X-(

      • #2986492

        Fundamentalist Islam desires to end our culture? BS

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to Enemies of Civilization

        Fundamentalist Islam desires to end our culture, BEING ADOPTED BY THE PEOPLE OF ISLAM, they don’t give a crap about our culture, that’s teh whole point. They just see too much of our culture being introduced and adopted by their own people, which completely goes against Islamic rule, and why should they adopt it?

        I’m not defending Islam or Islamic extremists, I am simply saying that THEIR problem is that OUR lifestyle crosses their borders and THAT they reject. seeing us at war in their nation simply shows them that we are willing to use force in order to instill our beliefs on THEIR people. Whether its religion, clothing, music, food etc. it is simply seen as US invading THEIR culture.

        It’s no different than all the people who say that if we didn’t fight them, we’d become a mainly Muslim nation ourselves, which is of course complete BS.

        • #2986475

          The timeline

          by road-dog ·

          In reply to Fundamentalist Islam desires to end our culture? BS

          9/11 preceded Iraq and Afghanistan. They attacked our military and financial institutions here, not there.

          If they were wanting to control the Western influences on the Islamic world, then they would do it there… at their borders.

        • #2986257

          Sure that makes sense

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to The timeline

          If you are unable to see the bypocrisy in what you just said.

          The Taliban(Students Islamic Kowledge Movement) are but one radical group of many, (think Christian crusades)have been at arms with America for decades over these issues of what they see as western culture being forced upon them. In reality it is a younger generation adopting and welcoming western ways (not just American ways, in case you haven’t noticed these similar terrorist actions have been going on forever in other nations). However they see this as being forced upon them as it is a result of the media coverage from free democratic nations; Baywatch, Vegas, Disneyland, and al that stuff.

          This is NOT just about the Taliban, there are MANY other Islamic fundamentalists up at arms now. the Taliban just chose to show their distatse for western culture by flying planes into the WTC. This doesn’t make the numerous UK bombings and other terrorist actions throughout the world Taliban terrorist actions though.

          Just as allies have been in and out of Afghanistan and other middle eastern countries for years now, trying to settle it down with the attraction of personal financial gains, they also bring the fight to you. That’s the hypocrisy, others can walk in and attack them but when they fight back it is unwarranted.

          TYo suggest that controllign western culture in teh Middle East would be done at their borders simply shows a complete misunderstanding of how western culture is instilled around the world.

          Look at Accasicada, the only heavy metal band in Baghdad. They speak fluent English, just like a rock star. They have posters, know the lyrics and own electric guitars, drus etc and their most common words are basic Western swear words.

          How did THAT get to them in such a restrcted and carefully contolled country? Did Metallica and Slayer visist Iraw and take their culture through the borders? Of course not.

          Democracy means less control of the people and less censorship.

          By removing that control, western media seeps into homes in teh form of newspapers, magazines, radio and television, their youth years to adopt such culture and follow cultural icons so they adopt western culture.

          To suggest even for a second that they can control the influences of American culture at their borders is naiive and completely lbind to reality.

          We can’t control US media on our televisions, on OUR radios etc. We have a border between Canada and the USA, but SOMEHOW, media seems to not be blocked at the borders, airwaves just slip right through when nobody is looking.

        • #2986471

          So, before Bush

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Fundamentalist Islam desires to end our culture? BS

          there was peace, love and understanding in the Middle East?

          Different excuses, same killing, decade after decade after….

        • #2986556

          Gonna keep going that way too.

          by boxfiddler ·

          In reply to So, before Bush

          It’s that child of Hagar/child of Sarah thing.

        • #2986253

          WTF are you talkign about

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to So, before Bush

          I didn’t mention Bush nor do I think it is AMERICA that is the core of the problem. Go sit down.

          Western culture floods their airwaves and television stations as they are forced to become les srestrictive and repressive. The people want democracy and get stars in their eyes when they are exposed to our cultures (meaning Europe as well as North America. Nothing to do with Bush, this was WAY before his time.)

          If you can’t see how our free cultures flood the world then you are VERY naiive indeed and need to go on holiday outside of America for a while.

          It’s not just America or Bush, quit being so damn conceited. You were attacked by teh Taliban, but also note that similar attacks have going on for decades.

          They see OUR faith and culture being thrown at them and changing their youth, we accept the changes in our youth and just roll our eyes “kids these days”.

          Media makes our world go ’round. Faith and ancient religious belief rotates theirs.

        • #2986242

          And anyone that follows that idea

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to WTF are you talkign about

          is a threat to the world. Agreed.

    • #2974379

      British couple get sentence suspended?

      by jdclyde ·

      In reply to A German’s view of Islam

      Dubai: Sex Sentences Suspended For British Couple

      [i]”A British couple convicted of having sex on a beach in Dubai had their sentences suspended by an appeals court on Tuesday in a case that showcased tensions between Dubai?s conservative Islamic traditions and its role as an upscale international tourism and business hub. Michelle Palmer, 36, of Rutland, England, and Vince Acors, 34, of London, were arrested on July 5 on the beach in Jumeriah, an area of exclusive hotels in Dubai, after a policeman spotted them engaged in intimate contact. A Dubai court found them guilty in October of public indecency,[b] sex outside of marriage [/b]and drunkenness, and sentenced them to three months in prison. The couple, who have been out on bail since their arrests, will be deported to Britain and pay a fine of about $270, said Andrew Crossley, a lawyer for Mr. Acors. The pair, who met at a hotel champagne brunch a few hours before their arrests, admitted being drunk but denied having sex.

      • #2974369

        What would have happened in the US

        by neilb@uk ·

        In reply to British couple get sentence suspended?

        If a couple of drunken Brits had been convicted of getting it on on a “exclusive” US beach? Maybe “sex outside of marriage” is not against the law – although is is as much frowned upon in your Holy Book as the Qu’ran – but I’d guess that they’d end up in the slammer!

        I’d have given them three months inside for being totally stupid and added three more for being criminally disrespectful.

        • #2974364

          A fine

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to What would have happened in the US

          for public indecency.

          The fact they were not married would never have been brought up, as it would not be a factor, just as it wouldn’t be in other NON-Islamic states.

          We do not legislate from the Bible, as you well know.

          They had just come from an open champagne bar, of course they were going to do something stupid. Being stupid in places that have “religion police” is twice as stupid.

          Bet we don’t find many nude beaches in Dubai, huh?

          And I doubt seriously if any civilized nation would deport them over it.

        • #2974339

          Not really my point

          by neilb@uk ·

          In reply to A fine

          The fact that they were arrested – and even deported – is not such a big deal if nudity in beaches is not allowed in Dubai – or having sex in public. There are few places in the world where you can go nude in public and very, very few where you can make out with your significant other.

          The sex act in public is considered indecent and illegal in most parts of the world regardless of the religion. There is – rightly – a limit to how can you behave in public and if you cross that line you will find yourself in trouble.

          I’m as critical of certain Islamic groups and regimes as the next man but I don’t see the deportation of that couple as particularly an Islamic thing and I reckon that you will be arrested in any country for what they did. I just think that a bit of Islamophobia came in with that report.

          Neil 🙂

        • #2974334

          Wasn’t it the middle of the night

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Not really my point

          on a private beach.

          Hardly “in public”.

          And no, I do not believe The US, Canada, or the UK would deport someone for having sex on the beach, with the biggest crime being “out of wedlock”.

          Any nation that has religious laws is a dangerous place. If wasn’t for the tourist trade, I am sure MUCH worse would have befallen them. Bet they don’t recommend it as a vacation stop when they get home.

        • #2974319

          Whatever you say about this

          by neilb@uk ·

          In reply to Wasn’t it the middle of the night

          They [b]didn’t[/b] got to jail. All they got was their visas confiscated and a fine.

          As it was reported here, they got caught once and told to disappear and got right back down to it when the copper had left. Allegedly, they argued with the copper that it was “okay” and were, again allegedly, abusive when they got caught again.

          Stupid woman had lived there for two years and so she knew the score. She also chose to have her story plastered all over any UK newspaper that would buy it (before the trial!) and she didn’t come over particularly well. No doubt, she’ll sell her story again when she gets back and we’ll hear about her “poor treatment”.

          I merely think that if you want to find something inflammatory and anti-Islam, you could do a lot better than this pair of stupid losers.

          🙂

        • #2974295

          Maybe, from the sounds of it

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Whatever you say about this

          it is just something to get famous?

          I heard about the televised suicide. Pathetic. And I thought we had low standards for “reality tv” over here.

        • #2974321

          “We do not legislate from the Bible” Maybe not in Michigan.

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to A fine

          I don’t know how else to explain the long list of ‘blue laws’ in SC regulating what can and can’t be sold on Sundays, and what hours they can be sold.

        • #2974298

          I don’t know about “blue” laws in SC but………….

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to “We do not legislate from the Bible” Maybe not in Michigan.

          I sort of thought you could legally buy firearms, in SC, on a Sunday, as well as any other day of the week, 24/7

        • #2974276

          Who said anytihing about firearms?

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to I don’t know about “blue” laws in SC but………….

          I can’t speak about firearms since I’ve never attempted to buy one, Sunday or otherwise. But no alcohol at all. Basically only food and medicine before 1:30, unless the county has over $1 million in tourism-generated dollars. Then the county can locally repeal the state prohibitions. Why should state laws treat Sunday differently from other days of the week? If that’s not legislating from the Bible, I’d like to hear a non-religious justification.

        • #2972504

          What you can do in SC

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to I don’t know about “blue” laws in SC but………….

          If your county collects above a certain threshold level of sales tax, you can sell anything, anytime. Below that level, Sunday sales are approved (or not) on a county-by-county basis. About 10 years ago, the county where Palmetto and I live approved Sunday alcohol sales…sort of. You can have a drink at a restaurant with your Sunday dinner (or breakfast!), but you can’t buy a six-pack at the store so you can have a drink at home.

          You can buy groceries 24/7 from Wal-Mart, but at midnight Saturday night they stretch a rope to separate the grocery area from the rest of the store. That rope is to prevent you buying any non-grocery item until after 1:30 pm on Sunday.

          If you ask about blue laws, you get a shrug and “This is South Carolina.” Nobody comes right out and says “You should be in Church, not out shopping,” but, particularly in the smaller towns, the attitude is there.

          edit: type, post, pprofread

        • #2974246

          I agree with the fining, and possible

          by the scummy one ·

          In reply to A fine

          weekend stay in the slammer, however, I believe the charges would be Lewd acts in public and public drunkenness.

        • #2974354

          No, no, no. In the United States . . . . . .

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to What would have happened in the US

          …..they apply for a grant from the National Endowment for the Arts, and they not only get a free pass for their artistic piece, [i]sex on the beach[/i], but they get paid for it.

        • #2974318

          Then they’re foolish.

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to No, no, no. In the United States . . . . . .

          they could make a lot more by setting up their own home porno web site.

          They’re also foolish for not knowing and obeying the laws of the country they’re in. This is no different from that U.S. tourist idiot who was caned in Singapore several years ago for spray painting cars.

        • #2974293

          Ah, the caining

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Then they’re foolish.

          was a grand thing, wasn’t it?

        • #2974274

          I didn’t have problem with it.

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to Ah, the caining

          Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time. I recall he wasn’t treated as harshly as a native; fewer whacks.

        • #2974255

          If we would bring that here

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to I didn’t have problem with it.

          I think just maybe we would have less mouthy punks running around today.

          I know back when the “board of education” was the paddle in the principles office, you did NOT mouth off to the teachers like happens today. B-)

        • #2974332

          Speaking from drunken experience…

          by forum surfer ·

          In reply to What would have happened in the US

          They just ask you to take it back to the room here in the states…assuming you are apologetic and not a complete belligerent tool. 🙂

        • #2981480

          I was in the heart of the Bible Belt at the time…

          by forum surfer ·

          In reply to Speaking from drunken experience…

          Myrtle Beach! Just when you think no one’s looking…

        • #2981419

          Myrtle Beach is at the outer limits of the Bible Belt

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to I was in the heart of the Bible Belt at the time…

          They will tolerate activities from tourists that would get locals shunned.

          “No, he wouldn’t understand. He’s not [u]from[/u] here, bless his heart.”

        • #2981417

          I have family in florence

          by forum surfer ·

          In reply to Myrtle Beach is at the outer limits of the Bible Belt

          And I actually have heard that line.

          🙂

    • #2974314

      What a complete idiot

      by tony hopkinson ·

      In reply to A German’s view of Islam

      Christian europe’s death count makes all those numbers look like chump change. No mention….

      As for the russians and the chinese were peaceful before the communists came, words fail me.

      Demagogue, pure and simple.

      • #2986490

        THANK YOU TONY!!

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to What a complete idiot

        Damn, for a minute there I thought I was the only one seeing the bias and hypocrisy in his BS spam mail.

        You know how it works, give a guy a degree and the world deems him credible, no matter how much of a lunatic he really is.

        teh part that instantly showe dme he was full of it was saying that the fact that Islam is a peaceful religion is irrelevant, because radical fundamenmtalists now rule Islam.

        As you pointed out, we’ve had radical christians too, but that doesn’t make christiannity a harmful religion. (Even though personally I see it that you are okay as long as you believe in God or agree that you have to see the light still, but if you don’t have faith in their choice of God, you are cast into a fiery hell..nice religion!).

    • #2972542

      Mostly correct

      by jackofalltech ·

      In reply to A German’s view of Islam

      You have to realize that any muslim who is ‘peacful’ is NOT obeying the Koran (or Quran, whatever). Over and over again, it instructs the reader to force all non-muslim to convert or kill them.

      Read the history! This is a pseudo religion just like Scientology. Mohamed syncretized several different beliefs from that time and area, picked one of the lesser-known ‘deities’ and made it all up.

      Their practice all along has been to live in ‘peace’ with their neighbors until they are strong enought to take control. Then the violence begins and NEVER ends.

      Mohamed made a peace treaty with several local groups then one by one attacked them (even ignoring the temporary truce of Ramadan) and conquered.

      Make no mistake, this Allah is NOT the God of the Jews or Christians – our kingdom is not of this world, as Jesus said, else we would fight – they are all about taking over this world.

      • #2972454

        So is christianity

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to Mostly correct

        Neraly every christian ritual has it’s root in mithraism, half of it’s holy writing are jewish….

        You thinks it’s a concidence Jesus was born at one solstice, that he just happened to die and ascend on an equinox?

        All religions are syncretic, that’s why they are so popular.

        So you seem to be as mostly correct as the other guy, as in hardly at all.

        • #2972413

          No other religion in the world practices their teachings as the Muslims do.

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to So is christianity

          The Jews gave up their eye for an eye practice even before the arrival of Christianity on the scene. Muslims love to hold up the Crusades as representative of Christianity’s attacks and repression of Islam but what they ignore is the fact the Crusades were in response to Muslim attacks and inroads made upon Christianity and its hegemony. For example the Ottoman Turk conquest of Byzantium terminated by the fall of Constantinople in 1492. Subsequent to that the Turks, in their efforts to spread Islam, pushed up into eastern Europe to the point they were almost knocking on the gates of Vienna. Note: conquest was not the primary motivation of the Turks; it was the spread of Islam. Likewise, in Spain, Islamic forces were not completely expelled until well into the 1400’s under Ferdinand and Isabella, the sponsors of Christopher Columbus.

          If you were in any sense objective in regard to religion, you might recognize that most, if not all, other religions in the world have reached a level of toleration and coexistance with each other, if not respect. As religions go, Bhuddism is probably the most peaceful and tolerant in the world and yet the Taliban, in the throes of Islamic fervor, found it necessary to destroy the Banyan Bhuddas which were doing nobody any harm and had been created at least a thousand years before the advent of Islam. Why??? For the same reasons these idiots will strap explosives to themselves and detonate them in the midst of of innocent people, much of the time, amongst other fellow Muslims.What they hope to prove or achieve by that, I don’t know, but if the objective is to become universally despised then they are well on the road to achieving thei goal, not only amongst Christians but around the world. China currently feels more threatened by Islamic influences than it does by the Tibetans and the Falun Gong. Whether or not it is, remains to be seen.

          I admit to being prejudiced and biased against Islam, for very peronal reasons that were formed in the light of close contact with Muslims. In my opinion Islam is the most dangerous source of violence loose in the world today and if not exterminated, must be curbed in their practices. The Muslim you can trust is a dead one.

          Islam is a religion that inspires and promotes violence and reactionary fanaticism more than any other and should be destroyed if it can’t or won’t mend its ways.

          Forget the nationalites of the terrorists. Who flew the planes into the World Trade Centre??? Who blew up the train station in Spain??? Who blew themselves up on the buses in London??? Who set off explosions and riots in France??? Who created the latest attack on Mumbai??? Fanatical, fundementalist, Muslims!!!!! That’s who.

          All religions have their share of fundementalist whackos but none to the dangerous levels of Islam. If you can’t see or understand that, then you are either blind or very short sighted to an extreme.

          Now go hug a Muslim, you apoligist for Islam. :^0

          [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

        • #2972408

          Dawg. Muslims are an easy target

          by neilb@uk ·

          In reply to No other religion in the world practices their teachings as the Muslims do.

          You don’t have to think about what’s going on. They’re just a nice easy group for you to hate.

          Most of the Middle East’s terrorist groups’ primary motivation is nationalism and the fact that they are also Muslim is simply because Israel was planted smack in the middle of a Muslim area. Hamas and Hezbollah are anti-Israel first and Muslim second. Al Qaeda were originally formed (and financed by the US) to get the Russians out of Afghanistan. Osama bin Laden is mainly pissed with the government of Saudi Arabia for allowing US soldiers into the country during the First Gulf War. Most terrorists groups just want someone out of somewhere that they don’t think they should be!

          In the case of Israel, Iraq and Afghanistan, they do indeed have a point that should be answered other than by guns, tanks and rockets.

          When the UN peace-keeping force was in Lebanon in the 1980s, Hezbollah were accused of some of the suicide bombings of US and French forces. When you got out, the attacks stopped.

          I could go on but the point that I’m trying to make is that the motivation for different groups and different individuals within a group are not “Muslim, therefore terrorist”, they are more complex and mixed. If you take the attitude of “Muslim, therefore terrorist”, you will make that come true.

          As it can be seen happening in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq and the West Bank.

          Neil

        • #2972384

          So [i]that[/i] explains the anti- Israeli stance of Iran???.

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to Dawg. Muslims are an easy target

          At one point, Iran was trading with Israel for spares for their American built aircraft. now they purchase them from South-African firms which are joint ventures of Israel.
          You have next to no personal experience with Muslims, unlike myself. At my first contact with Arabs, Iransians et al, I had no preconceived prejudices. I know many Arabs, Iranians, Lebanese, Syrians, etc and by extension Muslims, both socially and through business.
          [b]They[/b] tell me that fundamentalist Islam is at the source of most current terrorist activities. As Muslims they are embarassed by this, and somewhat apologetic, but mainly, they are warning us and we, as westerners, can’t seem to grasp the fact that Islam wants us all as good little Muslims or dead. If you can’t, or won’t, grasp that idea, then you may very well have to live with the inevitable catastrophic result, which you, as an ardent practicing atheist, will absolutely detest. One thing I’ve never understood about Brits: what makes Brits such avid altruistic, left-wing socialists. It sure as hell doesn’t do your nation any good and goes a long way to explain its post WW II decline and loss of respect in world affairs. Britain is rapidly approaching the equivalent level of France, which is, all things considered, fairly damned low,and inconsequential.

          [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

        • #2972372

          Hahaha

          by jellimonsta ·

          In reply to So [i]that[/i] explains the anti- Israeli stance of Iran???.

          [q]Britain is rapidly approaching the equivalent level of France, which is, all things considered, fairly damned low,and inconsequential.[/q]

          Sadly though, I pretty much agree with that statement. :p

        • #2972327

          What makes us the way we are?

          by neilb@uk ·

          In reply to So [i]that[/i] explains the anti- Israeli stance of Iran???.

          Perhaps because we think a little more rather than diving in with fists clenched and eyes shut. We’ve done our share of ruling the world. Unfortunately, we seem to be as bad at learning lessons as the US.

          What makes me the way I am?

          “You have next to no personal experience with Muslims”. Put simply, Dawg – What the FVCK do you know about me or my life? Who I’ve lived alongside or with and who I’ve worked with and who my friends were and are? I’ll answer that – NOTHING.

          No point in arguing with you. You’re patronising me from a false premise and, at my age, that is guaranteed to set me off on one . It would only develop into insults and I can’t be arsed.

          Neil

        • #2981505

          Aww, and here I was hoping to do just that. It would have been so easy. :^0

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to What makes us the way we are?

          I know you haven’t lived in any Muslim countries for any length of time because you, yourself, have previously admitted you haven’t. I don’t care who you’ve worked with or who your friends are; I FVCKING KNOW that cozying up with Muslims in Blighty isn’t the same as living in their country, often having to break bread with them and yet having to walk around, with them considering you or any other westerner as a target for them to gain their passport to Islamic paradise. Live that way for a year or two and then maybe, just maybe, I might be prepared to listen to your half baked ideas as regards Muslims. Until then, unless you can prove evidence to the contrary, I know you have next to no [u]REAL[/u] FVCKING experience with Muslims, so I would suggest you stick to the copious number of subjects you [b][u]do[/u][/b] know something about and put a sock in it as regards your knowledge of Islam, which is definitely of an extremely, finite nature.

          Now if that doesn’t set you off on one of your pedantic, pontificating, rants, then I’m losing my touch.

          [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

        • #2981494

          Blind, short sighted or blinkered?

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to No other religion in the world practices their teachings as the Muslims do.

          I am not blind to the abuses in the name of christianity. I’m not so myopic that I can’t see back to when those abuses occurred. I am nt so blinkered I choose to ignore them as irrelevant.

          I’m a big believer in the theory that when you live in a greenhouse, throwing bricks out is a bad idea.

          If you want to base your arguments on their societies, I will listen, and in the main I will agree. On their religion, then your argument founders on what we have learned as we natured as societies.

          Christianity is not a ‘nicer’ religion because it got nicer. All those guys who ran the crusades, believed in Jesus, preached the teachings of Jesus, and then murdered, raped and stole anyway, so what Jesus taught was not their reason. Power and greed were…

          I choose not to hold myself up as a good person and better than someone else because I was brought up in an ethic used to justify the deaths of millions. I won’t put myself in a position where I have to apologise for that.

          No go hug a catholic, you apologist for christianity. :p

        • #2981483

          yes

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Blind, short sighted or blinkered?

          there was a time when Europeans did terrible things while hiding behind the church.

        • #2972246

          ??????

          by jackofalltech ·

          In reply to So is christianity

          I’m sorry, I don’t understand your reaction. We were talking about a group of people who are dead-set on taking over the world by force. What prompted your comment?

        • #2981495

          Like the other guy, you have an opinion

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to ??????

          Like the other guy, you choose to justify/explain/back it up with ‘facts’

          His fact china and russia were peaceful before the rise of communism which is anti-christian

          Your fact islam (anti-christian) is syncretic.

          Russia and china were not peaceful before communism, christianity is syncretic.

          You were both talking about a group dead set on taking over the world, I don’t share that opinion. So that you both should choose to colour your justifications with at minimum omissions of the truth, means you haven’t convinced me. In fact your chosen tools of demagoguery has confirmed my opinion.

      • #2972440

        Remind me, what were Christian leaders doing

        by charliespencer ·

        In reply to Mostly correct

        when that religion was about the same age as Islam is now? Remember the Crusades? The Inquisition? From this atheist’s viewpoint, the critical factor is Christianity has had more time to grow out of these tendencies.

        “…this Allah is NOT the God of the Jews or Christians…”

        He’s not the Judeo-Christian god that turned people to salt, destroyed towers, burned cities, flooded the world, and killed an entire generation of Egyptian male children because they weren’t his ‘chosen people’? If that isn’t an act of religious terrorism, what is it? Sounds like the same guy to me.

        • #2972414

          One difference, Palmetto

          by neilb@uk ·

          In reply to Remind me, what were Christian leaders doing

          The Old Testament God of the Jews did the smiting Himself. The Christian God and Allah are alike in that They have things done in Their name.

          🙂

        • #2972380

          Christianity is at [i]least[/i] 600 years older than Islam.

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to Remind me, what were Christian leaders doing

          Hinduism, Shintoism, Bhuddism, Taoism are about 1000 years older than Christianity and some even older.

          [i]He’s not the Judeo-Christian god that turned people to salt, destroyed towers, burned cities, flooded the world, and killed an entire generation of Egyptian male children because they weren’t his ‘chosen people’? If that isn’t an act of religious terrorism, what is it? Sounds like the same guy to me.[/i]

          Actually the same stories are in their Koran but they put a much more violent spin on their version.

          Their guy might sound similar but the similarity is like night and day existing within the same twenty-four hour period.

        • #2972369

          Upon Arriving in Heaven

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to Remind me, what were Christian leaders doing

          .
          A man arrives at the gates of Heaven.

          St. Peter asks, “Religion?”

          “Methodist,” the man says.

          St. Peter looks down his list, and says, “Go to Room 24, but be very quiet as you pass Room 8.”

          Another man arrives at the gates of Heaven.

          “Religion?”

          “Baptist.”

          “Go to Room 18, but be very quiet as you pass Room 8.”

          A third man arrives at the gates.

          “Religion?”

          “Jewish.”

          “Go to Room 11, but be very quiet as you pass Room 8.”

          The man says, “I can understand there being Different rooms for different religions, but why must we all be quiet when we pass Room 8?”

          “Well, the Catholics are in Room 8,” St. Peter replies, “and they think they’re the only ones here.”

          “Where are the Muslims???”

          “In hell but, in comparison to where they were when they were alive, its heaven to them.

        • #2972314

          I don’t understand

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Remind me, what were Christian leaders doing

          why people that talk out against Christians, turn around and make excuses for Muslims.

          Can you explain this to me, please?

          It is one thing to be Anti-religion, but why only Anti-Christian?

        • #2972277

          I’m not intentionally singling out Christians

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to I don’t understand

          I’m making a comparison between Christianity and Islam as to the level of violence each has exhibited at a similar age. My point is that Islam is the newest of the major world religions and hasn’t had to mature out of the same violent tendencies exhibited by some other world religions when they were the same age. Judaism’s early history isn’t exactly peaceful either.

          That said, having lived most of my life in the U.S. South, Protestant Christianity is what I’ve been exposed to the most, the Baptist denomination in particular. Apparently I’m making a subconscious association between Christianity in particular and religions in general. I’ll try to avoid it in the future.

          “…turn around and make excuses for Muslims.”

          Please cite any excuses I made for Muslims. I normally regard all religions as equally unsupportable. I used to think religion had done more damage than any other human institution. In the last few years I’ve modified that, and now I think ORGANIZED religion is the largest source of harm humankind has inflicted on itself.

        • #2972275

          There

          by santeewelding ·

          In reply to I’m not intentionally singling out Christians

          Check mark next to your name.

        • #2972274

          More people have died, “In the Name of God” than for any other cause.

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to I’m not intentionally singling out Christians

          All religions have been guilty of this at one time or another but no other religion has ever been as militant and violent[b][i] as Islam has been and [u]still[/u] is.[/b][/i] regardless of which sect you choose to refer to. When they aren’t attacking other religions they are at war amongst each other, as to which are the true followers of the prophet.

        • #2981409

          I have seen you defend muslims

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to I’m not intentionally singling out Christians

          I have not seen you defend Christians.

          An example would be when the discussion came up about if NoBama was a muslim or not. Your response wasn’t if he was or not, but why would it be a problem if he were?

          I have yet to see you defend Christianity. I suppose I might have just missed it, huh?

        • #2981347

          Is such a thing as a”closet camel jockey” possible? An Islamic sympathizer?

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to I have seen you defend muslims

          Now that’s difficult to imagine or, wrap a sane mind around.

        • #2972238

          Point of clarification

          by jackofalltech ·

          In reply to Remind me, what were Christian leaders doing

          Don’t blame christians for the Crusades!

          If you study history from various, independant, objective sources you will learn that Catholicism and Christianity are not the same thing.

          As I said in my earlier post, true christians do not fight for we do not treasure the things of this world. It is not a religion, it is a relationship with a Person who we love and acknowledge as Master. Our one concern is introducing people to Jesus and telling His story. That’s it. Period. No condeming people, no “taking the Holy Land”, etc.

          The Catholic church has done and teaches many, many things that are contrary to what the Bible teaches, including the accumulation of wealth (“Lay not up for yourselves treasure on earth… for where your tresure is, there your heart is”), celibate priests (“Elders must be the husband of but one wife…”), Indulgences (“For by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast”), etc. When the Pope said that anyone who died during a Crusade would skip Purgatory, that was no different than modern-day suicide-bombers being told they were guaranteed Muslim heaven.

          I’ve said this before, just because someone claims to be a christian doesn’t necessarily mean they are one. The Bible says look for the evidence.

        • #2981497

          Times change

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to Point of clarification

          “If you study history … you will learn that Catholicism and Christianity are not the same thing.”

          At the time of the Crusades, the Catholic Church and Christianity were one and the same. The East / West schism hadn’t happened yet. Martin Luther hadn’t been born.

          You’re viewing the actions of the Catholic Church in Middle Ages from a 21st century viewpoint. At that time the actions you describe were regarded as acceptable, even sanctified. If you deny their actions as part of Christian history, you might as well deny the Old Testament as part of the Bible. Both are among the building blocks of Christianity as it evolved into what it is today.

          “When the Pope said that anyone who died during a Crusade would skip Purgatory, that was no different than modern-day suicide-bombers being told they were guaranteed Muslim heaven.”

          Exactly. Given a few more centuries, maybe Islamic teaching will have matured beyond this approach, just as other, older religions have. Oh, and how do you know the crusaders didn’t, and the suicide bombers don’t, go to straight their respective heavens?

        • #2981471

          Catholicism

          by forum surfer ·

          In reply to Times change

          The catholic church has had periods of corruption. Their viewpoints during the crusades were associated with Christanity, but most certainly did not represent Christian beliefs, then nor now. People in power abused, butchered and raped the faith to make it ok to do what they did.

          You’re viewing the actions of the Catholic Church in Middle Ages from a 21st century viewpoint. At that time the actions you describe were regarded as acceptable, even sanctified. If you deny their actions as part of Christian history, you might as well deny the Old Testament as part of the Bible. Both are among the building blocks of Christianity as it evolved into what it is today.

          That’s not true to some extent. The world may view it that way, but not Christians. We know that their actions weren’t on the level. They even tried to keep translations of the Bible out of the general populace so the Catholic church could do as they saw fit and steer the masses at will. People who translated the Bible from Latin to English so that it could be read by the masses were shunned by the church at the time, such as John Wycliffe.

        • #2981455

          The “Bible(s)” of today have been translated and retranslated many times.

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to Catholicism

          So much has ben lost in translation that one can only wonder at what the original was like. The same thing applies to all the other “Holy” books in existence.

          Wycliffe was the first to produce an english translation of the “Christian” bible, about 100 years before the Reformation. He was a “Lollard” and like Martin Luther disapproved of the excesses and corruption of the then Catholic church.

          He was also a human being and thus subject to all the foibles, frailties and prejudices of the human condition. How do you know what his source for translation was, how accurate was his translation and whether or not he exercised editorial priviledge in inserting or omitting anything?

          Organized religion of any sort needs to be regarded with suspicion but the fundamentalist varieties are extremely dangerous. We put down mad dogs; why not these nut jobs.

          [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

        • #2981451

          Put them down because they are mad dogs ?

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to The “Bible(s)” of today have been translated and retranslated many times.

          No problem.

          Just don’t single them out as islamic mad dogs.

          Don’t them down because they are islamic AND mad dogs.

          Definitely never ever ever put them down because they aren’t christian.

          Don’t olarise the issue beyond the necessity. Does Al queda need wiping out? Yes!

          Because it uses the islamic faith as it’s justification? Only an islamic can make that their reason. If you aren’t one, then you should use their actions as your measure, not their faith.

          Anything else, you are arming them, not harming them.

        • #2981446

          [i]All[/i] fundamentalists are whackos and we’d be better off without them

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to The “Bible(s)” of today have been translated and retranslated many times.

          Christians, Sikhs, Muslims and any other brand of fundamentalist; they’re all dangerous and, in MHO, as far as I’m concerned, if not treated like mad dogs,they should be quarantined to avoid contaminating the rest of us. You wouldn’t want their contagion to proliferate now; would you??

          You can imagine the reception I give to any Jehova Witness or Seventh Day Adventist, that rings my doorbell before 9 AM on any given Saturday or Sunday. I give them 10 seconds to get off my property or I’ll let my highly protective and possessive dogs out.
          (1 Deerhound, 1 Kerry Blue Terrier and now 1 Airedale)

        • #2981414

          Dawg…

          by forum surfer ·

          In reply to The “Bible(s)” of today have been translated and retranslated many times.

          Those whack jobs targeted my neighborhood for like 3 weeks. They came into our quaint little neighborhood by the full size chevy van load, literally. They would pile out and pour through the neighborhood door to door 3x a week. After 3 days of “I’m not intersted,” I finally had enough. I noticed they were all adults so I said to myself this is fair game. Next time they came my g/f at the time and i were ready. We answered the door nearly naked and she had my kid’s (not home at the time!!!!) indiana jones whip and I had the dog’s leash on her with some nice mellow background music…Disturbed “Down with the Sickness.” I invited them in and welcomed them, but they declined. The lady was shocked and appaled, but they bypassed my house ever since.

          🙂

        • #2981436

          I rest my case.

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to Catholicism

          “The world may view it that way, but not Christians. We know that their actions weren’t on the level.”

          Now, let’s replace the word ‘Christians’ with ‘Muslims’. I rest my case, your Honor, and move for adjournment.

        • #2981376

          I wasn’t saying anything bad about muslims…

          by forum surfer ·

          In reply to I rest my case.

          Nor was I defending anyone else. I don’t refer to fundamentalists as muslims…i refer to them as crazy bast@tds. But as a christian, I don’t like being associated with those kooky catholics on the extreme side…not all catholics mind you. At the same time, I won’t kick my girlfriend out of the house for coming home dressed like a catholic school girl! Now if she came home dressed as a shiite school girl I’ll have my issues. If that makes me prejudiced then guilty as charged!

          🙂

        • #2973837

          Sorry, you missed my point

          by jackofalltech ·

          In reply to Times change

          I didn’t say Catholicism and Protestantism were different, they are but my point was that the Catholic church NEVER was christian. From the very beginning, it taught things contrary to the bible.

          Yes, I do deny It’s actions are part of christian history because of the reasons previously stated amd the only connection it has with the Old Testament is the same as the Pharisees, thye have replaced God’s commands with the traditions of men. And trust me, the Catholic church has not “matured beyond this approach.” If it still held the power it had then, it would still be trying to force conversions just as the Muslims are today.

          Read about the Inquisition (which, by the way, is still officially active), how the Church tried to prevent the US from gaining independence from England, how they helped the Nazis, how they tried to prevent the Jews from returning to Israel, etc., etc., etc.

        • #2973670

          Two things

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to Sorry, you missed my point

          First, until the Reformation, western Christianity [u]was[/u] the Catholic church. How can you deny its actions are part of christian history with a straight face?

          Second, what links do you have for the assertions in your last paragraph?

        • #2972772

          No, no, no

          by jackofalltech ·

          In reply to Two things

          Please try to understand this. The Christians were tolerated in the Roman empire until they began to “turn the world upside down” by the testimony of their lives. After that, until Constantine, they were persecuted even more than the Jews, Nero actually tied christians to stakes, doused them with oil, and set them on fire to light his nightime garden parties. Constantine had the brilliant (from a worldy perspective) idea to bring peace by combining political and religious power in one person, himself, and took the title Pontifus Maximus. I don’t remember all the details after that and I’m at work so I don’t have access to my references but I’ll post them here as soon as I can.

        • #2972733

          Constantine

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Two things

          The predominant religion of roman troops was Mithraism. Constantine re-used a lot of Mithraic ceremonies and attached them to christianity, this appeased the legions. Then he used them to slaughter anyone foolish enough to disagree with him or his god. Whether he did that because he was one of the faithful, or a power hungry monomaniac, to me is a moot point.

          Either way he was no different to Stalin, Hitler, or Hussein, except Christrianity was his chariot and he was a much more successful rider.

          Christians were persecuted in Rome because they refused to worship the emperors. They disagreed with the people in charge. Then when they got in charge, they used the persecution to justify killing everyone who disagreed with them.

          Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. A lesson the christian church ignored for millennia….

        • #2984966

          Tony, that’s my point…

          by jackofalltech ·

          In reply to Two things

          True christians aren’t interested in political power so, by definition, all those who followed in Constantine’s footsteps were not christians. Even before the Reformation, the Catholic church was persecuting the true christians such as the Albigenses, the Waldenses, the Anabaptists, and the Huguenots.

        • #2984877

          Same goes the other way

          by neon samurai ·

          In reply to Two things

          True Muslims are not interested in political power. The text they follow does not advocate violence. Exetremists and close minds attached to any theme are a problem.

          As for Christian power, the Vaticant has an awful lot of it. Heck, one of Christ’s most important messages was that the church as an institution was wrong; God does not live within four walls and a roof. God is not indulgences and money changers. The Crusades where surely not about any christian values yet they where in the name of Christianity.

          It could be worse though. A primary principal of the Thugee religion is delivering genocide to all those who are not Thugee. In that case, it was the british “was on terror (tm. co.)” that marched across the indian continent on that one.

        • #2985800

          To Jack

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Two things

          You can try telling a christian that they aren’t a true one. Probably get away with it now. A middle ages priest, only if you wanted to die horribly.

          You can try telling a palestinian, walled out of the land that was stolen from him, unable to observe his faith in safety, and being forcefed Macdonalds culture, that you are a true christian and not his enemy.

          You might get away with that as well, of course you need to keep your gob shut about him burning in hell for all eternity because he doesn’t believe in god. Otherwise you’ll sound like you are lying…..

          A true christian, is one who goes along with the majority of other christians.

          Any other definition is a futile assessment of righteousness.

        • #2986112

          Tony…

          by forum surfer ·

          In reply to Two things

          This one is a bit out there.

          A true christian, is one who goes along with the majority of other christians.

          A true christian reads the Bible, makes his/her own interpretations and his/her own decisions. Pastors, Deacons, Elders or whatever you may call people in any given church are there for guidance if we want it…not to tell us what to do. I myself am a christian and I disagree with alot of other christians on some subject matters. I find myself playing the devil’s advocate in alot of discussions with others in my age group at different churches.

        • #2986056

          Forum Surfer, that’s fantastic

          by neon samurai ·

          In reply to Two things

          Religious choice should never be a justification for a closed mind or lack of critical thinking. Some of the most religious people I know, I respect fully because they are able to step away from the applicable book and think about or discuss the topic openly without feeling that there own spiritual choices are threatened by it.

        • #2972055

          To Forum Surfer

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Two things

          You could say by your definition, anyone who goes to church is not a true christian. :p

          Let’s face it the church is about instructing the faithful, on how they should show their faith. Same methods, same people, same justification, for giving lepers somewhere to live, or for burning people alive.

          That makes organised religion amoral, and yet they all claim to be bastions of morality.

          A fundmanental truth, those who should loudest about morality, are trying to hide their immorality.

        • #2972036

          Through and through, Tony

          by santeewelding ·

          In reply to Two things

          Raising questions with unquestioned, unquestionable givens.

          An observation early Saturday morning where I sit, about to make another cup of coffee, not particularly anxious to do battle, but alert enough not to let what you say pass by me unquestioned.

        • #2972026

          You are the one I hear shouting now, Tony

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Two things

          what is it you are hiding?

          By your own distorted rule, he who shouts the loudest about anti-Christian must be……?

          hmmmm.

          Are you a closet Christian, Tony?

          Or does your little rule only work one way?

        • #2971944

          A closet christian

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Two things

          ooh, I’ve accidentally outed myself.

          Damn,

          or may be not….

          How do I as a non christian, tell a true christian from a not true one?

          If you told me, would others who also call themselves true christians agree with your distinction?

          Which bit didn’t you like, that organised religion is amoral?

          Witch trials anyone?

          Or those that shout loudest about morality, are usually immoral.

          How about TV evangelists, Popes, politicians…..

          You tell me why you percieve an attack on the church as an attack on you. When you’ve articulated that, then you’ll know why, you shouldn’t.

        • #2984830

          Tony, focus on the actions not the title

          by neon samurai ·

          In reply to Two things

          That is my aproach anyhow. The title could be christian, pagan or hindu for all I care. I focus on the actions and self development that comes from whatever one chooses. Are they persecuting other’s in the name of there faith or are they living a better life because of it? Are they interested in the welfare of others or growing the headcount of the church congregation? Do the teachings promote harming others?

          Like anything, it’s best to judge by the outcome and intentions rather than the label it’s claimed to be in the name of.

          A question may be why is it so important for you to tell a good christian from a good person of any other faith? If one is dragging another person off against there will to be crucified, burned, imprisoned or generally harmed in any other way, does it really matter what they claim to be doing it in the name of?

        • #2984828

          Outcome and intent.

          by boxfiddler ·

          In reply to Two things

          Intent (of others) is hidden from us. We can only see outcome.

        • #2984812

          Huh ?

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Two things

          Which action would that be?

          Dividing the world for conquering?

          Slaughtering indigenous peoples, who happen to wear a lot of gold, or take up far too much space.

          Tacit acceptance of racial cleansing?

          Hide the paedophile?

          Forgiving mass murderers in return for finamacial and political support?

          Suppression of the truth?

          Preying on the weak, for gains in power and wealth?

          Promotion of ignorance?

          Indoctrination of children?

          Suppression of science?

          Child mutilation?

          Occasional donations to charitable works?

          Don’t know about you, but when I judge that lot, the church doesn’t look that good.

          Whose church and which flavour, irrelevant….

          So given I could either be treated as a misguided fool to be pitied, or firewood, exactly where should I err in my judgement? I should believe they are a bunch of nice guys until they get the matches out?

          I don’t think so…..

          Remember, I never associated any poster with the church, they associated themselves with it.

        • #2984803

          tony, you seem to have mistaken my meaning

          by neon samurai ·

          In reply to Two things

          Your question was “how do I tell the good Christians from the bad ones?” and my short answer is to ignore the choice of faith and focus on the actions and intentions displayed.

          I only stated how I approach the topic of other’s religions. Let me give you a clear example and then I’m going to follow my own good recommendation and back out of this discussion on religion. Like politics, it’s a topic that seems to only ever get discussed as an Us vs Them and how evil Them are.

          So, let’s consider intent and actions. I grew up in a very religious town where most people where well meaning. I don’t actually think I know of anyone who had generally disagreable intentions. Even the Jehova’s that came door to door once a year where not pushy about it; “thanks, got my own brand of christ. have a good day though” and they’d move along to the next house on the street.

          The intent appears to be spreading the word of there own church without overselling it.

          The actions where to accept other’s choice of faith and move along while doing good in the community through other things.

          In a town of seven churches, you have to be a little open minded and accepting of other’s faiths. The other churches did not have a door to door drive each year but the various fall socials happened and the people from various flavors did a lot of good in the community even if they helped people of another flavor.

          Where I live now, there is a rather active toronto church of christ. I’ve been so turned off by the representation of a more pushy members that I’ve only recently realized it’s a Morman church. I’ve met a number of the members out selling and it’s the same as the jahovas back home; “have you spoken to someong about christ before?” – ‘no thanks, got my own faith.’ and they move on to the next person. Intention is to premote the church and grow the flock either for concern about other’s souls or whatever and the action is to accept “no” and move on.

          However, there is one member that is probably undiagnosed and in need of help with his mental health. I’ve watched him drive some little old Church-all-her-life lady off public transit because she was religious but not belonging to his faith. He’s told me directly that he thinks there are too many faiths and they should all be whiped out; his is the right one and only his. He is so blinded that he won’t even accept or hear of someone believing in a christian or any other faith unless it is his. His intent may be honest concern for others but his actions catagorise him as a bad XYZ in my opinion. He is an extremist that happens to belong to a christian church but could just as easly be mispremoting any other faith.

          See the difference? One on a personal crusade with the feeling that those who disagree must be crushed into submission versus many who respect other’s choice of faith and do not premote ill intentions because of it.

          Since the majority of the christians I’ve met are not currently premoting genocidal crusades, the choice is not really important. Now, those good ol’ boys in the south that used to hang minorities in the name of christ are a concern. The good folk who premote ignorance of the sciences because it does fit the prechosen literal interpretation of the christian faith may be well intended but would not like me much.

          If you stretch the meaning of religious for a moment and consider Bushido. Like any other faith or “way”, you can find horrendous examples in history. The despotist rule of Japan and treatment of prisoners in occupied China is a pretty negative example of what extremist actions can do. Much of it was actually the ruling government trying to maintain power and subtlying corrupting the honorable intentions of the Bushi. Do you go around today fearing any Japanese person or expecting every Bushi you meat to cut you down for now bowing low enough? Or, is it only the brown people that are to be irrationally feared?

          In the same way, I’m not going to jump to conclusions about someone because they are muslim, hindu or any other faith. I’m going to judge the individual and there displayed intent and actions. That’s how you tell a good anything from a bad anything. The extremists in any faith become pretty obvious quickly anyhow.

          So, if you want to continue bitching about other’s choice of faith and disregard the fact that there is a rational way to see the good in other’s religious choices or see the good in other individuals regardless of there personal belief system then that’s your decision. If your just looking for opertunities to denounce a faith that is different from your own personal choice then your only demonstraiting the very thing your complaining about. You really should be focusing on any extremist movements and denouncing those as they are, by definition, premoting ill will to anyone outside the given faith. That includes the christian extremists as well as the fearsome brown threat.

          By the way (like it’s really important), I’m an anglican raised agnostic leaning closer to a mixture of the good teachings from christianity and bushido. I like to learn about different faiths and see what good points they each premote rather than condemn someone because of the private choice of religion.

          This “them” bashing is distasteful regardless of what group “them” belong to.

        • #2984799

          I should have read your post all the way through before replying

          by neon samurai ·

          In reply to Two things

          .. it would have saved me a bunch of typing.

          First, you must be able to tell well intended or actions that promote humankind versus evil or badly through out actions. If you can’t, that’s something you may want to look into.

          Do all priests abuse children or have only a few? Should we condemn all of catholisism for those that have?

          Are all christians calling for genocidal crusades or just the christian extremists?

          Are all christians nailing minorities to crosses and burning them or just the extremist good ol’ boys?

          Are all christians calling for the abolishment of science in favor of creationism or just a minority of extremists of that view?

          Are all muslims calling for the death of the infidels or just the islamic extremists?

          It doesn’t even need to be religion.

          Hackers are all lumped together as evil according to the media though there is no differentiation between the type of hacker. Worse still, there is no differentiation between Hackers and the cracker scum that the media has lumped in with the technology enthusiasts.

          Should we condemn all police because there have been examples of bad cops?

          All school teachers should be condemned because some ignorant educator confiscated Ubuntu cds from a student and claimed it was software piracy maybe?

          I saw a bus driver drive drunk once; they must all be alcaholic threats to our children huh.

          Oh gosh no.. he’s a brown guy.. I don’t know him or anything about him but he’s in my country so he must be a terrorist right?

        • #2984788

          Come on Tony

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Two things

          I was just applying what you said, about the loudest. You seem pretty loud, and by your own definition that would make you……

          Not that Christianity has anything to do with the threat to all of the human race as mentioned in Dawgs post.

        • #2984697

          To FS

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Two things

          Intent?

          The church intended to save my soul for jesus.

          To that end, they used everything from peer pressure to legislation, to make me a member when I was an unformed babe in arms, and then to force feed me their dogma, before I had the experience to make my own judgements.

          That’s the modern day civilised church.

          So I am judging on intent, claim to be a member of a church, and you claim that brainwashing is justified.

          I apologise advance to any church that does not indulge in this disgusting practice.

          There must be at least one….

        • #2984693

          OK JD, seeing as I’m being labelled as banging the drum

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Two things

          for my ‘faith’

          Here’s wee roll.

          The fundamental tenet of the christian faith is that Jesus died to redeem us from our sins.

          Leaving aside I don’t accept the christian definition of sin, and that by definition if I’m not a christian I cannot have sinned. Redemption to me is an unwholesome cop out for those who wish to avoid responsibility for their actions.

          So my faith says I should be judged by my actions, not excused from them because of my faith.

          Can you and I agree on many points in day to day life where we interface, yes.

          Me and the church, no. And they knew that, that’s why they made me a member when I was six months old.

          For my own good of course………

        • #2984639

          To Tony

          by forum surfer ·

          In reply to Two things

          I’m sorry you feel you were brainwashed from birth. Not all churches are like that. None of the ones I have attended are.

          It’s that very reason I don’t send my son to a private religion based church. I want him to make his own decisions once he reaches the appropriate age.

          But should anyone base all of thier judgements on one’s own bad experience? Isn’t that half of the problem we’re facing in the middle east? Shouldn’t we all try to be a little open minded regardless of our experiences without saying all muslims, christians, zionists, pagans, mexicans, africans, anglicans, americans, canadians or whatever are all bad?

        • #2984548

          What else am I meant to base it on ?

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Two things

          How about

          My eight year old granddaughter tells me she wants to be a Jehova’s witness when she grows up.

          That’s another one of my experiences.

          People waffle on about the horrors of islam, same methods, different god….

        • #2984532

          And?

          by forum surfer ·

          In reply to Two things

          My nephew wants to be a firetruck. Children repeat what they hear and sooner or later they all come home spouting some non-sense.

          I’ve met several atheists that are arrogant and assume me to be a close minded fool incapable of rational thought if I have any sort of faith. Shall I assume every non christian is like that? Or should I attempt conversation and maybe even a little tolerance?

          Racism and bigotry know no bounds, and I’ve seen alot of it directed at people of faith. I hear that “organized religion” part alot. Unless I stay in a box, I’m a part of organized religion in some shape or form whether I like it or not. It’s not all bad. And most people that say it is haven’t spent alot of time going from church to church, denomination to denomination participating and making their own judgements like I have.

          I work with a devout Muslim, hell his name is even Mohammed. I’ve carried on many conversations with him about tolerance and bigotry. Hell, we even exchanged office Christmas gifts, even though that is clearly not his religion. I find it very odd that he and I can often carry on a very in-depth and non-insulting conversation much more easily than say myself and someone who is against or doesn’t agree with christianity.

        • #2985383

          If you feel I’ve insulted you, that certainly was not my

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Two things

          intent.

          If you feel I’ve insulted the church, that was not my intent either. If you find the truth insulting, well it can be on occasion, live with it.

          Your kid can never be a firetruck, no matter how hard he tries, well short of transformers becoming real.

          No one took him to the let’s be a firetruck club, no adult said to him , you should be a firetruck, no one told him he was going to burn in hell for all eternity if he didn’t become a firetruck.

          My granddaughter could very easily end up as a witness though, that technology already exists, it’s called the church, you know it works, because if it didn’t we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

        • #2985330

          Not insulted in the least

          by forum surfer ·

          In reply to Two things

          Actually, my kid has been around alot of firetrucks due to some volunteer work I do. He’s been around coulntless firemen and ems personnel. So yes, he was influenced into that a little.

          We can’t isolate our children from influences. Is being baptized as a baby and attending a religious school where it’s beat into their head daily too far? In my opinion…yes.

          I didn’t make a decision to attend church and explore my faith because I was brainwashed into it. I made a concious decision as an adult to do so.

        • #2981457

          If you can say catholicism is not christianity

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Point of clarification

          then you can say shi’ite is not islam. As soon as you do that you are arguing interpretation of the word , not it’s fundamental validity (to a believer). Then you can change minds, you can discuss, debate, have a dialog.

          Step down the christianity or Islam is evil, you simply alienate everyone who considers themselves a member of those faiths no matter their interpretation….

          It’s no different to saying all french are smelly, all americans are boors, all black people are subhuman, any other hate fueled drivel.

          As for your who did what to who first argument, first depends on where you start, that sort of stupidity always ends in the same place though.

        • #2972198

          a point to consider

          by j-mart ·

          In reply to If you can say catholicism is not christianity

          Mankind has been creating their gods in his own image since the beginning human existence, so it is not so uprising god is used as an excuse for many of the nastiest things done to mankind by mankind.

        • #2973835

          Sorry again,

          by jackofalltech ·

          In reply to Remind me, what were Christian leaders doing

          I’m truly not aware of any deliberate omissions, please explain.

    • #2972358

      Conspirators Instigators and Assassins

      by neon samurai ·

      In reply to A German’s view of Islam

      Lest we forget the CIA who where directly involved in “helping” some of those situations develop:

      Rwandans, Afghans, Iraq, Iran, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and
      many others

      I’m not trying to take away from the points made in the initial post as I think they are very valid and worth considering. Some of the places simply reminded me of my history of espianage and a rather good documentary I saw the other night.

    • #2981491

      The world’s problem isn’t the Koran…

      by dixon ·

      In reply to A German’s view of Islam

      …the Bible, the Torah, or the Communist Manifesto. It’s the rabid, irrational, extremist interpretations of them, and the resultant insane decisions and behaviour. As a source of conflict and senseless human misery, no brand of ideological mass-mania is blameless.

      If jingoists and zealots keep running the show on this planet, we’ve got a bleak future.

      The human race, if it’s at all interested in its survival, has to outgrow the sort of superstitious hocus-pocus that makes us continually slaughter each other.

      I don’t pray, but if I did, I’d pray for a new world religion that worships rationality and a mutual sense of humanity.

      • #2971937

        While I agree with you

        by boxfiddler ·

        In reply to The world’s problem isn’t the Koran…

        that ideology, politics, any number, if not all, isms share the blame with religion regarding the evils man perpetrates upon himself; the underlying factor is that he rationalizes his actions in light of the aforementioned.

        Rationalism is the root. The isms and ions and ologies are the veneer.

        etu

    • #2972024

      Attack Christianity in the name of Islam?

      by jdclyde ·

      In reply to A German’s view of Islam

      [i](no, this is not directed at dawg.)[/i]

      Why does it seem the only defense the Islamic apologists have for Islam is to attach Christianity?

      And what is equally puzzling is many of the same that speak out against what Europeans have done in the name of Christianity are still Europeans. How about speaking out against the violent Europeans?

      Nah, that would require some honesty, huh?

    • #2971936

      Not to get in the way of your pure unadultered BS

      by gate keeper ·

      In reply to A German’s view of Islam

      the initial post made some semi-valid points … but whatever meaningful debate that could be raised was drowned out by all your ‘Islam apologist’, camel jockey , lets bury them in the sand comments lets your bigotry shine through.

      just so you know .. I am even worse than a ‘Islam apologist’ I am a camel jockey Muslim.

    • #2971935

      Shucks, Dawg.

      by boxfiddler ·

      In reply to A German’s view of Islam

      Now you done it. Gone and pissed somebody off bad enough your OP got marked.
      Bad, bad, Dawg. :^0

      • #2971930

        racist and deragatory comments tend to do that.

        by gate keeper ·

        In reply to Shucks, Dawg.

        The OP one was a mistake though. it had legitimate points.

        The comments that i meant to mark was:

        “Is such a thing as a”closet camel jockey” possible? An Islamic sympathizer?

        http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=280901&messageID=2660646

        in case you did not know:

        here is what a quick Google gave:

        1- camel jockey :term used in derogatory fashion to describe anyone from the middle east

        2- camel jockey: A racist insult for a person of Arabian origin.

        I’m sure it is against TR polices to post this racist bile.

        • #2971929

          I’m familiar with the derogatory nature of those terms.

          by boxfiddler ·

          In reply to racist and deragatory comments tend to do that.

          It’s unfortunate that they were used, though you appear awfully quick to assume he meant to offend. It happens around here sometimes. It’s impossible to get through life without being offended on occasion. I tend to think we all have our crap moments.

          The term does not necessarily restrict itself to Muslims. My sister is married to a Coptic Egyptian, and it has been frequently hurled at him.

          etu

        • #2986485

          Cmon Boxy

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to I’m familiar with the derogatory nature of those terms.

          This is Dawg we are talking about, his entire aim behind everything he shares, whether serious or Friday Yuks is 100% for shock value and controversy, some call it being a troll. Everything he posts is an attempt to cross that line and still be validated for offering SOME reason behind it.

          In this casem how can you suggest for even a second that “Camel Jockey” is NOT intended to be derogatory? Does Dawg have a secret camel racign fetish and was talking about the weekend bets? Doubt it. Of course it is derogatory. He knows that n***er will nto be accepted, so no pokes on them, Yankees is no longer offensive but camel jockey and nobody will complain about derogatory names towards the people you are at war with.

          Didn’t fool me anyway, perhaps follow will accept it but most others would quickly see it as direct defamation but yet acceptable because they are are foreign and include your enemies.

        • #2986481

          that particular response had me :) as well

          by gate keeper ·

          In reply to Cmon Boxy

          but I guess it is a sign of the times …. if it were blacks/Jews/Gays or any other group being called a handful of colorful terms usually reserved for each group the response would not have been he didn’t mean to cause offense.

          I have come to accept that as reality the last few years.

        • #2986442

          camel jockey

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Cmon Boxy

          would that not simply be someone that rides a camel? What is so insulting about riding a camel?

          That is where I get lost with all the “colorful” names. I don’t understand the intent of the originators, so can not understand the insult, intended or otherwise.

          Now, camel f##ker, THAT would be an insult.

        • #2986250

          Get stuffed JD

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to camel jockey

          YOu know EXACTLY what he wa stalking about and again, no matter how eloquently he had said “jungle bunny’ or “spear chucker”, it would have been seen as horrendous racism and not an innocent reference to bunnies in the jungle or people who hunt with spears.

          But with The Middle East, as long aas there is some, distant relation that can be applied (though completely inaccurately) it is allowed and completely acceptable. Your reply just illustrates your racism and personal bias against anything Middle Eastern, how simple and narrow minded.

          YOU know, I know and EVERYONE else knows EXACTLY what was being said.

        • #2986246

          We can’t all be as unbiased as the Mighty Oz

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Get stuffed JD

          At least he wasn’t called a redneck, huh?

        • #2986243

          As for terms

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Get stuffed JD

          people get insulted is they wish to be insulted.

          Sure, camel jockey is someone in the middle east.

          I don’t know where jungle bunny comes from, nor many of the like names.

          I do know that I see the “N” word everytime I get an ink cartage, since it means “black”. Not sure how that became an insult while black isn’t other than the language it originates.

          Oh well. It just isn’t a part of my world.

          I don’t get insulted when people call me “white” even though I am usually a nice tan…. B-) Probably the Greek heritage.

        • #2985514

          terms (JD)

          by tonythetiger ·

          In reply to Get stuffed JD

          you forgot ‘master’ and ‘slave’ hard drive settings 🙂

        • #2985509

          I have been waiting YEARS

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Get stuffed JD

          for Jessie Jackson to rally a boycott against IBM for being racist because of the whole master/slave naming.

          Look on the web and you will see all the WATB’s crying about how racist the Disney cartoons are…. :0 DON’T FRIGGEN WATCH THEM IF THEY OFFEND YOUR STUPIDASS!

          Man, dumb people really bother me….

        • #2971919

          Actually your remarks demonstrate a total ignorance of fact and

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to racist and deragatory comments tend to do that.

          if you had demonstrated the slightest tad of knowledge on the subject, you might have been worth listening to. I make no secret of my prejudice and bias agianst Muslims and more specifically Palestinian fundamentalist Muslims. As a former UN peace keeper I unfortunately learned, the hard way, that the only ones you could trust were the dead ones. Is that succinct enough for you???

          I had rescued a child from an accident, got him medical attention, probably saved his life and had his family; father, mother, brothers and sisters promise me their “undying gratitude and friendship” , so you can imagine my total surprise to actually get shot at by two of those same brothers, one of whom did sufficient damage that required replacement of the tibia in my right leg with a steel rod. Fortunately, my men blew the ba*tards away before they could finish the job. That was almost to the day 47 years ago; while convaleescing I studied Islam and its history. You may not agree with my conclusions but you cannot argue with facts.

          Fundamental Islam is at war, not just with Christianity, but with every other religion in the world, for reference see “The Banyan Bhuddhas”. Until you and people like you, wake up to that fact, then you will have nobody to blame except your own blind stupidity and ignorance for any terrorist attack that these people launch in your area.

          Don’t like it? Tough. Your opinion counts for zip with anyone who did time on the “Strip” and certainly not with me. BTW you’re probably one of those people who says Canada should only be doing peace keeping chores. Well let me inform you of one tiny little item that ignorant civilians, like yourself, do not realize: Before you can keep the peace, you sometimes have to [i][b]make[/i][/b] the peace and all too often that means people are going to die. I guess the question is; do you prefer to be the “er” or the “ee”(for that read target)???

          [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

        • #2971914

          Boo hoo

          by gate keeper ·

          In reply to Actually your remarks demonstrate a total ignorance of fact and

          you got shot .. that gives you a license to spout your racist ignorant sh!t all over this forum.

          Am I supposed to be impressed with your little rambo story there …. I grew up in a war day in day out for more than two decades … not on few week ‘tours’ hiding under a fcking blue helmet …. so don’t give me your sob story.

          one of my earlier memories was of the body of a pedophile blue helmet (you guys are famous for it http://tinyurl.com/5uw7pl ) being dragged through the streets like a rotten carcas … after one such case … could have been one of your boys.

          ‘your boys’ are peddling in the congo as we speak .. over there they are ee not er (for that read target) 😉

          EDIT
          despite your derogatory comments i tried to be civil but you see i can wallow in it as well as anybody else .. it is the only form of communication scum like you understand

        • #2984861

          Whoever you are or whatever you are, You really are totally ignorant.

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to Boo hoo

          For that matter, stupid as well. I’d love to be there to hear you spout your foul lies and garbage as they bring home a few of the guys from Afghanistan; you know the ones in boxes. It would be interesting to see if you had the courage to back up your slurs or would go skulking off saying nothing.

          No group or organization is perfect, I’ve heard of, but never encountered, pedophiles amongst peace keepers. However, you might be interested to know, that what we refer to as pedophilia in the West, is a commonally accepted social custom amongst many Muslim societies. Take a walk through the red light districts of Cairo, Damascus. Ryadh or even Istanbul and you will find children up for sale, the same as the regular product. Wonderful people you want to cuddle up with.

          For myself, I don’t give a damn for you and your stupid ideas or opinions. I may have to tolerate Islamic fundamentalists and their apologists, such as yourself but I don’t have to like, trust, or associate with them. Unlike you, I am honest enough to admit my prejudices and biases, not spout lies and garbage on this or any other forum.

          If you had demonstrated the slightest iota of knowledge and/or intelligence about [i][b]facts and history[/i][/b], I might be prepared to listen to you but your ignorance is laughably obvious. Now go run off and spout your nonsense with your Islamic buddies, watch out they don’t stab you in the back. Punks like you are a dime a dozen.

        • #2984855

          Ignorant ?? … that’s rich coming from you.

          by gate keeper ·

          In reply to Whoever you are or whatever you are, You really are totally ignorant.

          your entire knowledge of islam and muslims consists of from being shot at 50 years ago .. and a couple of books you read ….. oh yeah and your amazing ability to copy and paste.

          you have not added a single worthwhile point in this whole thread other than spew your ignorant garbage.

          I actually support the troops in Afghanistan ..but that must be difficult for you to grasp…. what me being a back-stabbing camel jockey and all.

          I know your type very well .. you think you are a macho tough guy because you were shot .. cowering behind your barricades …usually the are the most cowardly … I bet you tell your little sob story whenever you get the chance. what you need is a good shrink to help you deal with all your issues.

          see if i were like you .. I would assume all blue helmets are pedophile pieces of shit .. just because i have seen a few (refer to my previous post of one of their carcasses being dragged through the streets)

        • #2984764

          Congratulations. Thank you for proving the fact you are lying scum.

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to Ignorant ?? … that’s rich coming from you.

          [i]”I know your type very well .. you think you are a macho tough guy because you were shot .. cowering behind your barricades …usually the are the most cowardly …”

          “I would assume all blue helmets are pedophile pieces of **** .. just because i have seen a few (refer to my previous post of one of their carcasses being dragged through the streets)”[/i]

          On your first point. I have no idea where you saw peace keepers behind barricades, except possibly in Rwanda or perhaps Somalia. That isn’t a normal state for peace keepers, at least not Canadian peace keepers. When I was in the Gaza region, our enclosure was fenced with chain link but there were certainly no barricades. The same situation also existed for the Hungarian, Irish, Norwegian and Polish peacekeepers who were there at the same time as Canadians. BTW we were stationed at Raffa, in Egypt, not in Palestine. Aside from a commonality of religion it was interesting to note that Egyptians, almost universally, detested their Palestinian Islamic brothers. The same also applied to Jordanians, who looked down upon Palestinians as scum. Having done a fair amount of business in the Middle East, (Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Dubai and Qatar) I find it interesting that Palestinians are always looked down upon by their Islamic brothers. Maybe you could enlighten us on why that should be so.

          Before you make some ignorant comment on my business practices, I admit I don’t trust them but money is money and has no concience and knows nothing of religion. If the money is good enough I’ll deal with the Devil; I don’t have to like or trust him, just get the money.

          On your second point, I have no idea where you saw the carcasses of peace keepers dragged through the streets but I know with an absolute certainty that they weren’t the carcasses of Canadian peace keepers. I am not saying that it is not possible for a Canadian peace keeper to be a pedophile but I know that Canadian troops would never give up the body of one of there own to any rabble scum, pedophile or not. If perchance a Canadian was found to be a pedophile and this was proven, he would be charged and jailed, assuming he survived his fellow peace keepers. Proof of that is the RCMP constable(s) who was found to be abusing children in Haiti and was brought up on charges and punished. So unless you are prepared to back up your statements with irrefutable facts and not allusions, then I can only assume you are a scum sucking, liar.

          [i]”and a couple of books you read”[/i] BTW it might interest you to know that it was more than a couple. At least four or five were different versions of the Koran. I’ve also read different versions of the Christian bible as well as the writings of Lao Tze, Confucius, Hindu Kamas, Shinto teachings and Tibetan Bhudism. It’s very strange, that other than Islam, no other religion in the world advocates the killing of those who refuse to convert to their belief. Perhaps you, being so knowledgeable on comparitive religions, could tell me why this should be so. I find it very strange that Islam finds this to be necessary in its efforts of proselytization of its belief. No other religion in the world takes this position, at least not so openly or officially.

          Another thing, you seem to have a fixation on pedophilia. Why???
          You are aware, or should be, of the official protests filed by Canadians against Afghanians who the Canadians claim are abusing children. The Afghanians, for their part, see nothing wrong with their acts and claim it is part of there culture. The Afghanians are not alone in this, it seems fairly wide spread through the Middle East as well as Pakistan.
          Refute or deny that if you can.

          An interesting side note: Historically Mohammed not only married and had carnal relations with a nine year-old bride but was said to have a liking for little boys as well. I guess you could say Ol’ Mo was a bit of a switch hitter but maintained his preference for youth.

          Balls in your court now, you Islamic scum sucking pig. Oh yeah, about the cut and paste, hope you don’t mind seeing as how you were the source, this time.

        • #2984741

          they did your flea ridden ass a favour

          by gate keeper ·

          In reply to Ignorant ?? … that’s rich coming from you.

          by shooting at you .. back in those days .. the machete was the weapon of choice (not out of some misguided notion of close quarters combat being honorable it was simply economics a single bullet was equal to a loaf of bread).. and only special people were considered worthy of being shot.

          in case you are interested that is how your peacekeeper friend was dealt with .. I bet you would squeel like a little piglet and here you are putting on a tough guy persona .. it would be interesting to see how you would hold up 🙂

          you seem like a sadistic SOB .. I’ve got some nice gory stories that you would enjoy … not for public consumption though (political correctness and all that ) 😉

          no fixation here .. that is the limit of my experience where ‘peacekeepers’ are concerned for the most they were ineffectual pansies sitting behind their barricades … the first one i saw was the one being dragged.Somalia and Rwanda were not the only place you guys cowered behind barricades . you need some reading up to do.

          *********************

          I’m getting a bit bored with our little back and forth here since all you seem to be doing is rehashing your little sob story .. so I’ll let you have the last word….. I’ll just leave it you are a worthless piece of sh!t and should have died back then .. no doubt you feel the same way about me 🙂

          THE END

        • #2984677

          We still have no idea what your origins are nor do we know why you’re here.

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to Ignorant ?? … that’s rich coming from you.

          From what I can see Canada’s immigration laws are much too lax. We seem to have become the nesting ground of all sorts of human garbage that is fleeing their homeland claiming to be refugees. There are legitimate refugees from countries like Guatamela, Chile, Argentina, Rwanda, Niger and they arrive in Canada,hoping to find peace and are willing to work to make their homes here. But then there are the other sort, Iraqies, Iranians, Syrians, Lebanese and the worst of the lot, Palestinians, who arrive here with an attitude of they are doing us a favour by them choosing Canada as there destination. They claim Canadians should accomodate their beliefs and don’t. Why should we??? You treat your women like schit, treating them as possessions or cattle, not as humans. And you want us to accomodate you??? Why the hell should we???
          We didn’t ask for you and quite frankly, in my case specifically, we didn’t want you. So why don’t you go back where you came from if you find us so unaccomodating. If your point of origin was so damn wonderful, why did you leave it???

          I kill myself laughing about the fool Iraqi who threw his shoes at GWB. He and his pals are complaining because he got a bit roughed up. In my opinion he should count his lucky stars and ask himself what would have happened if he had thrown those shoes at Saddam.

          We shouldn’t have to accomodate anyone. They should arrive , blend in and get on with their lives, peacefully. If any accomodating is to be done, it should be done by the immigrants and it could start by you treating your women like humans rather than cattle or possessions. Allow them the freedoms that Canadioan women have. Why not?? All Muslims are proving is that they are afraid of their women and can’t trust them.

          So if we are such animals why did you come here??? Why don’t you go back to where you came from?? Oh yeah, they probably want to shoot your ass off there. Too bad they didn’t, we wouldn’t have to put up with your garbage here. BTW I notice you didn’t respond to any of my questions in my previous post you Islamic scum sucking pig of a dog. I’m now assuming you are Palestinian in origin; they always were the the biggest whining dogs, or so all your Islamic brothers tell me.

          [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

        • #2986517

          I dropped enough hints for you to

          by gate keeper ·

          In reply to Ignorant ?? … that’s rich coming from you.

          figure it out unless you are bullsh!tting me and never were a peacekeeper and it was all just some big fantasy to make believe your life actually had some significance (not that I’m saying it does… mind you)

          I have lived in many countries before finally settling here .. and I do love this country which has welcomed me and mine with open arms … I have taken advantage of the opportunities and worked hard to put myself through undergrad and graduate school so if the price is putting up with the occasional racist mental midget then so be it …. it is a low price to pay.

          as a younger man I would have fed you your teeth had you dared look at me sideways … your bum leg would not have made me hesitate in the bit 😉

          but as I get older I find it increasingly more difficult to get worked up … I’ve used up my quota of anger for this lifetime I think.

          to the other TR peers my sincere apologies I do try to remain civil most of the time and this is my last reply to this individual.

        • #2986508

          All you other equals

          by santeewelding ·

          In reply to Ignorant ?? … that’s rich coming from you.

          Please stand up.

        • #2986484

          Don’t bother

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Ignorant ?? … that’s rich coming from you.

          I’ve called hi to task to, invited him to my home (which he claimed he visisted only to be caught in a lie), gave him my personal cell etc. No show.

          Dawg is all old fart, no bite. He lives in Montreal so cut him some slack; being from Alberta yourself, you know the drill with the Easties and separatists.

          Sometimes its best to just look at smile at the slow kid rather than pointing and calling him a dummy.

        • #2986483

          “Islamic scum sucking pig.”

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Ignorant ?? … that’s rich coming from you.

          Well once again you went too far, as you seem to in order to instill your beliefs on others who do nor readily jump into bed with your ideas.

          For an air traffic controller, military vet, stock market tycoon who extensively travels the world in his own plane(s), you sure are weak and pathetic when it comes to getting your point across in a tactical fashion. For you to call ANYONE a liar is pure hypocrisy and laughable.

          You know very well that there are enough posts here that I can pull up to prove that you are full of crap and choose/need to blatantly lie in order to make your point, no matter how low you have to stoop…liar.

          As for your immigration rant, I believe you are a proud to be a Scottish immigrant too are you not? OR was that a lie too?

          How about those of us who don’t like to be infested with Scotish gits in our town? I suppose your bias and racism isn’t applicable when it comes to yourself though.

        • #2986480

          I guessed as much

          by gate keeper ·

          In reply to Ignorant ?? … that’s rich coming from you.

          I have dealt with many ‘tough guys’ throughout my life … they tend to be very loud but no bite to back up their bark.

          😀 how rich … a separatist Scottish immigrant is complaining about lax immigration laws ……. LOL

        • #2984841

          Gentlemen

          by santeewelding ·

          In reply to Actually your remarks demonstrate a total ignorance of fact and

          The children. Think of the children.

          Give them better reason than this.

        • #2984840

          With the non and anti religious as well

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Actually your remarks demonstrate a total ignorance of fact and

          and don’t forget even being the wrong flavor of islam.

    • #2986495

      Pretty biased actually – complete horsesh1t.

      by oz_media ·

      In reply to A German’s view of Islam

      I don’t see it as a straight up, unbiased view at all. The writer obviously has other issues he is trying to address and hoping his qualifications willl afford him enough credibilty to not be questioned.

      He states that Islam is seen as a religion of peace, but that is irrelevant because fanatics rule Islam now.

      So? Fanatics therefore make the normal people irrelevant simply because they have forcefull taken control of their land?

      What a pile of horsesh1t that is!

      It’s not irrelevant at all, in fact the FACT that Islam is a religion and system of beliefs based on peace is VERY relevant.

      Fanatics need to be dealt with, that’s all.

      It’s no different than saying people in Kandahar are peaceful, but that is irrelevant because the Taliban have taken over Kandahar.

      Or that Christinity was, at one time, not a peaceful religion because Crusaders rules western Europe.

      It’ scmpoplete rot and not worth the time it took for him to write this crap, not worth the time you took to post it and definitely not worthy of lengthy discussion, nor even this reply except to point out that it is hypocritical, completely biased bullsh1t.

      Why you buy into such trollop, Sleepin Dawg, is well beyond me. How you cannot see around such crap is simply stunning.

      • #2986411

        Rubbish, horseshit, bigotry

        by j-mart ·

        In reply to Pretty biased actually – complete horsesh1t.

        What would be real surprise it would be if sleeping dawg posted something that was not rubbish bigotry horseshit and a complete load of crap as this is all he ever posts. There are many on this forum that have strong opinions and some of these will put up a logical argument in support of their views,but dawg is not one of these, he just resorts to a bigots BS. I don’t know dawg from a bar of soap, and I am certain I would not like him if I did. I find it a complete waste of time discussing a topic with the likes of dawg.

        • #2986248

          Not so transparent afterall

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Rubbish, horseshit, bigotry

          Apprently it can be seen by others, oh well, not my problem. I am opinionated too but try to at least not be racist about it…unless towards Americans I’m told I hate Americans and am thus Anti American because I don’t like Bush. I wonder how they deal with the other 200 million Americans who don’t like ihim?

    • #2753649

      Very nice point of view

      by ammarcs ·

      In reply to A German’s view of Islam

      I very much agree with you and the way you brought it up.

      we need to spread peace and speak in the name of peace, to show peace.

      Islam is the only religion that is a verb and not a noun.

      it means peace litraly.

      peace for every one.

      but as you said these fanatics have ruined the image of every thing.

      i saw nice vidoes that speak little about islam.

      it might give a better image of those who want to know more.

      Movies
      1.Malcom X
      2.Traitor

      Documentary movies
      1.The Arrivals

      Books
      1.100 a ranking of the most influential persons in history (Michael H.Hart)
      and he chose Mohammed as the First.

      and since you are german, you can read the poems of the well know german poet “goethe”

      Regards

Viewing 11 reply threads