General discussion


A year later

By Oz_Media ·
Well, hopefully with a year behind it, we can attempt to discuss the progress of the Iraqi invasion without too much hostility, we should be looking beyond the reasons for now and lookig toward the end of this conflict.

CBC aired the documentary again "Deadline Baghdad" they say it was banned by censors in the US and several other countries and the CRTC in Canada has tried stopping its airing but unsuccessfully as it breaches fredom of expression rights.

In a nutshell, 50 reporters that hav ebeen in Iraq from many different countriesd showed unedited footage and photos of what was really going on. Not a very pretty picture and i won't go into any details, lets just say it is NO WHERE NEAR as pretty and successful as we are generally shown it to be, even the soldiers are disgusted with the guerilla warfare style it is being fought in.

Besides that though, what has bene accomplished?

I notice the latest tout from the Bush Administration is that Lybia has stopped building neuclear arms, first I've heard of that goal as an objective, even though this has been a long term goal of all the worlds nations.

They also say that they hae uncovered parts for building nuclear arms and they are being shipped out of the country now, we should see more in the future.

Some say Iraq has enough money in it's own oil resources to pay for thier own reconstruction now, but from what I understand, they have only turned out 6 billion in oil this year and repairs are slated at over 100 billion to restore Baghdad (not the 180 billion as originally proposed).

So what are the stories from other parts of the globe?

Please try to keep this to just reporting the latest news as shown in your media and not personal opinions, as they usually get nasty. Nobody can flame YOU for delivering the news.

If we do this like big kids, we may be able to actually share news reports without it becoming self opinionated war.

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Why does that surprise you

by Oz_Media In reply to Whether war

"What gets me is that I still haven't heard them declare an end to the war yet"

Firstly I don't know how declaring war on a different country for different reasons is somehow carried over to incading another but I know nothing about that part of war anyway.

But why would you be surpprised that the war hasn't been declared over yet?? It's bad enough that they said that major combat has ended(or whatever the phrase used was). Do you REALLY think that this is OVER or even remotely close to over yet? If so, how did you get such an idea?

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I think we got confused somewhere

by Cactus Pete In reply to Why does that surprise yo ...

"Firstly I don't know how declaring war on a different country for different reasons is somehow carried over to incading another but I know nothing about that part of war anyway."

It's still called Iraq, so it's the same country, right?

Why am I surprised? The regime we wished to change has been deposed. With whom are we at war? Iraq? No, some people [Al Qaeda] that are no IN Iraq? Perhaps, but that doesn't mean we should still have a declared war with the whole nation. I haven't heard anything on this angle in the media... I'm surprised.

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My mistake

by Oz_Media In reply to I think we got confused s ...

I thought you were referring to the war in Iran and that being reason to not declare war in Iraq. Despite the later determined AlQueda connactions, I thought these two wars were entirely independant as **1 was not the reason for the Iraq invasion.

I think we're not talking apples and apples here though.

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Side effects?

by Oldefar In reply to A year later

Libya's efforts to rejoin the community of nations by giving up on WMD and opening their books to both what and how they had proceeded.

Iran inviting UN inspectors in to view their nuclear program and admitting previous ommissions.

Syria increased participation against terrorist activity and reduced sabre rattling in the region.

A year of discussion versus testing from N Korea.

Pakistan and India in discussions instead of eyeball to eyeball over Kashmir.

Egypt leading efforts for a solution to the issue of Palistine and Israel.

Are any of these in whole or in part a side effect of the Iraq War? Has a realization that the big dog will bite put a fresh perspective on some of these long standing issues and moved things ahead? This will be an interesting subject for future historians.

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Interesting line of assumptions

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to Side effects?

Firstly Liba has finally wanted to get back in the "Good Books" for a very long time now didn't they surrender the person responsible for the Pan AMM Flight Destruction over Lockerby?

Iran inviting inspectors in but only after an alleged break for the "New Year" with no firm date for the inspectors to enter. Sounds very much like they are hiding everything that they don't want to become obviously seen and even now they are unwilling to set a firm date for the inspectors to enter sounds more like diplomatic BS to me rather than a genuine attempt to get into the West's "Good Books" again.

Syria well that is just plain self preservation what would you expect with an army on their border? If they had of carried on with their previous actions they very well might have had the COW continue over the border and invade them as well. We can not always set out goals that will be followed to the letter as things change somethings quite rapidly in that area of the world and what is good today may be not so good tomorrow. Just Like Saddam Hussein as he was once considered as the West's most popular person in the region REMEMBER?

Pakistan & India that is a Religious thing and will never end until religion is thrown out the door after all both of those countries where all once called INDIA when ruled by the British and it was only in the hasty way that the British withdrew from the area that has caused this problem in the first place.

Egypt is hardly a stable place to begin with if I remember correctly they where a party to the 6 day war which started the whole mess in the first place between the Palisitians and Israelis so them wanting to fix up the mess of their own making is hardly surprising is it?

While these may be considered as "Side Effects" of the Iraq war it is more likely Political Opportunism coming into play here rather than anything else Good if it works but the real threat is still there and done nothing to go away and that is North Korea currently they have the weapons and crude delivery systems which they are constantly refining until one day they will be a world power.

Now every country in that region of the world has benefited from OIL but in every case the benefits have not ben shared around but retained by a select few who are a law unto themselves and do what they wish and allow the general population to suffer which is a perfect breading ground for the current wave of suicide bombers as they are brain washed into believing that a better alternative will arise with the demise of the West even if they are the main buyers of the oil that is so precious to all concerned. If they where successful in destroying the West they have not as yet realized that there would be a greatly reduced market for their OIL and the prices would drop accordingly so again there would be no benefit other than to a select few who ruled the place after the overthrow of the current administration. The whole area is less that Stable.

What will be interesting for further historians will be exactly what does come out of the current mess within that area and it very well just might be not what we want to see and even worse than the person who was removed. What would be the outcome if the Arab World was to finally unite?

Now there is a thought for nightmares.


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by Oz_Media In reply to Interesting line of assum ...

Is this the message the media portrays in Australia? or is this your thoughts as brought on by media, news, TV ?

Those are interesting views and I agree with much of what you've said. Where do you get such thoughts from though?

I ask because I always seem to see a side that others don't, with Iraq coming back into the spotlight with the one year mark, I am curious to see how the media rates the success around the globe.

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OZ it is a combination of a long memory

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to Colin

And News Articles that have been reported with a bit of first hand experience thrown in for good measure.

There was also a very informative lecture about the Oil and the Middle East at a Microsoft Meeting that I attended last year as well. Developers I think but as I attend so many I'm not really sure.

Actually I wasn't trying to have a go at Oldefar but put another light on what he said above, while he was trying to infer that all this had come about directly from the invasion of Iraq and I honestly do not.

It is really nothing more than that involved.


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NO I don't see a direct relation either

by Oz_Media In reply to OZ it is a combination of ...

But that's MY opinion I have formed as a result of all the reporting I've seen from around the globe. it is interesting how some only see a certain side. I am wondering if they see multiple sides and simply choose one, or do people choose a side based on patriotism (If our government says it's true, the others MUST be wrong syndrome). But what you are saying is that you have a collective opinion, from US and loal sources. I assume that the MS reps wer US citizens and am surprised at the views they shared. Although this could also be due to Seattle being NorthWest and VERY close to Canada therefore sharing many news reports.

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No assumptions

by Oldefar In reply to Interesting line of assum ...

I simply am speculating on the side effects.

Here is an another speculation - the bombings in Spain are a side effect of the Iraq War. Keep in mind that the linkage is equally tenuous.

Now it is equally possible that all the events are unrelated, that each would have happened regardless of the coallition actions in Iraq.

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Actually Oldefar

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to No assumptions

I see the bombings in Spain recently as more of an excuse to continue with the actions that started this whole mess in the first place no matter who eventually is found responsible.

What has happened in Iraq even though it was warranted has only fallen into the hands of these fanatics to justify their actions {not that they really needed any justification} but to the general Arab community it is now more likely that these things are more acceptable than they where previously.

They are attempting to throw the place into chaos particularly if the reports are correct that they plan to disrupt countries elections by bombing them just prior to elections which are soon to be held. If that is correct we can all expect to see random acts of terror this year.

Not something to look forward to is it?


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