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America bashing ...

By jardinier ·
What is this? Is it a new religion, or perhaps a new political movement?
Now before I become involved in these TR political discussions I had never heard the term used anywhere. I am certainly not anti-America, the country, or anti-American, the individual. In fact I have mentioned in some earlier discussion that I have liked the Americans whom I have met, and I also stated that when I was Living in Kings Cross, at the time of the Vietnam War, I was very impressed by the refinement and courtesy of the US soldiers who came to this part of Sydney for their R & R. Some girls living in the same rooming house as myself went out with some of these men, and likewise commented on their gentlemanly behaviour.

Now I may not like the current US Administration, and I most certainly have good reasons (too many to list here) to dislike the current Australian government. But this does not mean that I dislike America and Americans in general, any more than I would be inclined to dislike Australia or Australians in general.

Australia is a great place to live, as anyone who has visited here will agree.

So if you read any general anti-American sentiments in any of my postings, then you are imposing that interpretation yourself (yourselves).

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Ah Ozzie - You got to love the american system

by JimHM In reply to How can you sleep

George no problem getting through doors - or holding my head up high... I am a very proud american - arrangent OK - but thats us, I guess and the French aren't..

But I will be always available to correct your understanding of the American system and point you in the correct direction - when you are talking out of your a*( ...

PS - I know you could of guested it but - I voted for George - and proud that he is our leader - over that whimp Gore. And I will vote for the man again this comming election ... So get ready for another 4 years of George W.. Got to love the American System..

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That's a system??

by Oz_Media In reply to Ah Ozzie - You got to lov ...

Uh...........OK. whatever you say, man.

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Ya it's our system. It has worked for us for almost 250 years.

by mrbill- In reply to That's a system??

Ya it's our system. It has worked for us for almost 250 years.

I did not vote for Junior, but he is the Prez in spite of what happened in Florida. Bush really did not win the state Ralph Nader lost it for Gore. Oh well as we say that?s life. I will not vote for him because of his lack of a good foreign policy. Not to mention how he has messed up our economy, we went from a solvent nation to one that is trillions of $s (US) in debt. Thanks Georgie.

But like I said he is our Prez so we must support him, if not he would lack credibility. Just my opinion.

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You are correct sir

by Oz_Media In reply to Ya it's our system. It ha ...

"But like I said he is our Prez so we must support him, if not he would lack credibility."

He already lacks credibility in the eyes of the rest of the world. I think this almost hits the root of my ONLY beef with American citizens. You will support your President whether he is right or wrong?!? This just doesn't make ANY sense at all to me. he's just a dude with a job in politics, not a God or the fouder of america. He hasn't written the Constitution, which everyone is proud of, he didn't create your freedoms.
Yet you all back his every move with full defensive actions against those who question his motives. Perhapse why I've also been quoted as calling American's sheep or conformists.

Perhapse, based on your earlier statement you can see WHY I see this? In any other place he WOULD lose credibility, and that's not even looking at your economy which you say he's destroyed.

Thank you for enforcing my point!

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Oz Man - you still don't understand

by JimHM In reply to You are correct sir

Oz Man - you still don't understand us Yank's -

We may disagree with out leaders - we may think they are wrong as calling white - black.

But - here is the difference between the Crazy Yanks and the rest of the world (my op).. We back him anyway and try to change it internally. We don't need any help from the rest of the world to tell us he is wrong.

We put on a strong unified front - for showing weakness to the rest of the world by not backing our leaders is like the Army not backing the General - How fast do you think an attack would come. (I expect you will say never... OK dream on)..

The Cold war has taught the American people a few things, the Vietnam war taught us other things - The Vietnam war was longer because the NVA knew with all the Anti-war protests in America that they could win if they held out long enough. We wouldn't of won - but would of gotten out of there long before 74... the only thing that got them back to the table was "Linebacker II" - and unrestricted bombing...

So - if the world see that the people aren't backing their leaders - Just like your family - you need to have a unified front - and internal arguments isn't for the rest of the world..

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Georgee, leader of the band

by mrbill- In reply to You are correct sir

Ok say there is to a musical group of 10 people (big band anyone). And the group decides that someone has to be in charge. Two guys are chosen to decide between, George and Al. So everyone votes and chooses George, 6 to 4, with the understanding that he will be in charge for the next 12 months, and then they will re-decide. Now George has to make a choice between playing in Duluth or Grand Forks and chooses Duluth. Seven of the group members like the idea, but three wanted to go to Grand Forks. Do those three support George and go to Duluth or do they scream and yell until the band splits or maybe they go to Duluth and don?t play making the whole band look bad. If you were a concert promoter from Milwaukee would you hire them? How long would this group last. Now if they are adults they will accept the decision of the leader, they can raise their concerns with George and let him know how they feel. The next time they decide to choose a leader they can try to get someone else.

If they catch George doing something wrong, like pocketing band funds they have the right to kick his a*&, but not for making an unpopular decision.

Now think on a larger scale, 285,000,000 people, 105 million voted in 2000.

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Been there

by Oz_Media In reply to Georgee, leader of the ba ...

Actually Mr.Bill, a group of ten who was on tour would NOT appoint their own leader. You need proper prootions and management. WHY?
To take the onus off the band members.

So, when the cabinet feels they should bomb another country, the manager (Bush) would be responsible for making the right decision. This helps insure that the band are NOT affected by the politics and can simply play.

Bush's reluctance to make professional decisions and simply do what the cabinet suggests is a sign of really poor leadership. NOW, if the cabinet DIDN't back his decisions and did what they wanted, there would be problems similar to mutiny.
They don't though, there job is to support their boss. What's yours? To perhapse let the boss know how you feel so he can make a more rational decision next time the cabinet whines?

Don't put yourselves at the top of the ladder, your FAR from it, it's arrogant and foolish to think that not having a voice helps retain dignity.

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Oz Man - you got to look at it this way

by JimHM In reply to How can you sleep

I figure if I didn't love my country.

I wouldn't want to change it or even cared if it was doing wrong in my eyes.

I wouldn't write my congressman or senator about things I felt the government was doing was wrong or against the constitution.

I wouldn't vote for the leaders of my country, and just let others make that choice.

I wouldn't care if the military - marched down Main street USA and declared George W the dictator of the USA.

I wouldn't care about the freedoms that I have or that they try to take away.

But you see if you love your country - you defend it right or wrong to outsiders, and you try to change it from the inside. Just as if it were a member of your family!

Go figure us Yanks - we are all screwed up with stupid ideas aren't we -

Yep - us Americans got to be the stupidest people ever to walk this tiny planet - with all those stupid ideas in the constitution and bill of rights.

But hey - America - I will defend it to my last breath - right or wrong to outsiders. Do you let outsiders speak ill of your family?

Americans, when it gets down to it as on 9-11, pull together and become - One Voice - One Family - One Nation - And said - Never Again -

So Oz - Peace -

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Great comments !

by Oz_Media In reply to Oz Man - you got to look ...

Now that's the kind of patriotism I can appreciate. I don't hate American's for being patriotic, just those who constantly spout how wonderful and correct America always is while anyone with eyes can see there is much improvement needed.

As I've said before, I love Canada and the freedoms I have this doesn't mean that I support all the decisions the government makes without questioning their motives.

When this is put to many people here, they say that I hate Canada (yes someone actually said that)and that I wish I could be American. If I wanted American citizenship, it would be a VERY quick process.

I don't feel anyone who believes in their country is wrong, America is a wonderful country, it's just that I see so many people supporting ALL the decisions of Bush without questioning them. This is a sign of true dictatorship and conformity.

When you post such a heart felt opinion of the country and your beleifs in it, I applaud you for your explanation. At least you seem to have some form of thought behind what you support and what you don't.

The union of Americans toward their fallen brothers in **1 was something I'm sure many would love to see in their homeland too, it was fantastic how you all helped these poor peolpe recover their lives, or at least try to.

When I see one person say that they believe in the Iraqi war to rid the WMD, another says it is because of Saddam and some who even say America is threatened by Iraq who may attack I start to think that nobody REALLY has a valid reason for suporting the war effort but simply vouch for whatever CNN said today's reason for war was.

Peace to you to, Jim.

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Black Legend

by john_wills In reply to America bashing ...

I wrote the following as part of an analysis of the karma leading to Al Qa'ida.
The Black Legend of U. S. wickedness parallels the earlier Black Legend of Spanish wickedness. Both result from predominance in the world. Both tend to be believed both outside and inside the hegemonic society. Anything evil the great power does gets exaggerated; anything good gets forgotten or misrepresented.
I once read a letter in The Economist describing seven great evil deeds by the United States. Judging justly, the U.S. was clearly on the right side in five of the cases, the guilty party was doubtful in the sixth, and I could not determine the truth of the seventh. People concocted preposterous ? and even contradictory - justifications for North Vietnam?s 1956 attack on South Vietnam, but not until the 1960s, when the U. S. was trying to help the South Vietnamese: the Black Legend of U. S. malice motivated those stories. Many such stories are bandied around, simply because the U. S. is the world?s dominant polity. It is also Christendom?s dominant polity, so all the attacks made on it, whether true or false, are of use to the enemies of Christendom. The Black Legend concentrates hatred on the U. S. in particular and on Christendom in general. Muslims are more conscious of Christendom than most people, and of the centrality of the U. S. to Christendom.

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