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  • #2160384

    Are Microsoft doing enough to prevent illegal copies of Windows?

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    by andy ·

    Once upon a time I wouldn’t have known legal software if it came in a shiny box with a license stuck to it. Oh yeah, thats right, it did, didn’t it.

    Fast forward 20 years and lo and behold I am now an IT Pro making my living fixing PC’s and supporting users. I own my own business so the legalities of the software we use has a direct impact on me personally, therefore we only use legal copies on the PC’s we build and only ever install legal applications.

    Thing is we seem to be in a minority, maybe its only geographically but nonetheless the majority of systems we get in for repair have at least a cracked copy of office if not the whole OS. While its hard to convince users that part of their problems could well come from the dodgy copy of XP Pro their buddy installed over their perfect legit Dell XPHome and btw he destroyed your recovery partition while he was at it, its even harder to justify the single most expensive component of the average PC (the OS) when the chances of them getting caught is so low.

    So my question to you all is how do you feel about this? I seem to have gone from renegade bandit to fanatic establishmentarianism (or somthing that a word like that if there were one would seem to imply).

    If pirating is theft then so is illegal software. If illegal software is theft then the stolen goods is the Operating System or Application. If these items are stolen goods then perpetrators should be charged accordingly, no matter how big or small. Likewise, to knowingly repair such a system is akin to handling stolen goods, something I believe is a crime in itself.

    Is it about time that illegal software was targetted and discussed in these terms?

    Is it time for Microsoft to reward those who report illegal software and punish those who sell it, no matter how small they are?

    Surely if it was then the cowboys out there to make a quick buck might think twice.

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    • #2753172

      MS doesn’t regard single users as worth the time.

      by charliespencer ·

      In reply to Are Microsoft doing enough to prevent illegal copies of Windows?

      They reward for reports of a large number of violations by a single institution if the report is proven accurate. They don’t bother with single installations, relying instead on “Windows Genuine Advantage” to inconvenience unlicensed users to the point where they want to go legit.

      • #2753463

        Not saying they should target users.

        by andy ·

        In reply to MS doesn’t regard single users as worth the time.

        I agree, in terms of ROI it doesnt make sense for Microsoft to pursue single users. Instead I think they do two things.

        #1 Get rid of the nag screens and just have a PC turn off when a system fails authentication. “Your system does not have a legal operating system, it will now shut down.”

        #2 Promote the fact that working on illegal software is handling stolen goods and therefore a crime and you as a reseller/support company/technician will be liable and open to prosecution.

        The shut-down-if-dodgy approach would get users to demand legal software especially if they are suddenly stuck with an alternative that is a PC that wont turn on. Heck, half the people we get in with illegal copies of Windows bought a new PC at the store at the other end of town and didn’t even know their OS was wonky till they tried to update one day. Another local store is “fixing” WGA nag screens for $25 a time.

        As for the threat of prosecution, if I was risking getting busted for working on a PC with an illegal OS I would be turning people away every time. I tell my clients its not worth losing my business to save them $100 when they ask about putting their copy of Windows on. It sure as heck wouldn’t be worth losing my business for their $60 repair fee.

      • #2748453

        it’s also free marketing

        by neon samurai ·

        In reply to MS doesn’t regard single users as worth the time.

        While they make lots of noise about it in the press, in the past they’ve intentionally turned a blind eye to piracy because it helped the product base grow. Everybody wants Windows at work because that’s what they stole for home use. Everybody wants Windows at home because that’s what they have at work so that’s what they steal.

        I think even today, MS is well aware of the market growth potential from allowing a level of theft. After all, it’s not like physical goods where where one person having the good means another had to give it up.

        Would Dos and win95 and win98 have helped solidify such a large user base if they’d not been so easy to duplicate?

        Now, I don’t blame them for trying to protect there product but I think they consistently go about it the wrong way; for a company with such huge developer resources, that’s sad.

    • #2753125

      Price Point

      by saurondor ·

      In reply to Are Microsoft doing enough to prevent illegal copies of Windows?

      I’m very strict regarding licensing. If you’re a small home user then maybe you’ll never have an issue. But to use it for work is walking yourself into a trap. Sooner or later you’ll have to pay for it. Usually when you have the least cash flow (Murphey’s law).

      Putting a real price to the software is important to realistically consider alternatives. Will you really need the functionality of a U$D 300+ application? Or will a cheaper or even free alternative suffice.

      Speaking of price Microsoft has to address the issue of its licensing costs. Not to justify piracy as it is clearly illegal, but objectively analyze what they want out of this deal. I live in Mexico City and there is a lot of piracy here. Even to the point of looking as an institutionalized activity, as I’m sure it is elsewhere too.

      Now minimum wage here is $54.80 (Pesos). Thats about $3.84 (US) a day! Lets take Office 2007 Student Edition for someone’s kid. OfficeMax Mexico lists it at 1199.00 Pesos. That’s 22 days of work. 22 full days of work. Unfortunately a vast majority lives with incomes less than 3 minimum wages.

      So for about 60% of the population it takes (at best) a full 7 days of work to get Office 2007 Student Edition. That’s an awful long time to go without food.

      It begins to become clear why this happens. Not that it justifies it, but it explains why the widespread piracy exists. And why in a way it is “overseen” and “approved” by Microsoft.

      A true crackdown of piracy in this market would mark the end of Microsoft as the dominant platform. Confronted with the need to pay retail price, people would go a free (possibly open) alternative.

      • #2753466

        Market relative pricing

        by andy ·

        In reply to Price Point

        Ever since Levi Jeans (although I think it was a spectacle company that set the precedent) managed to get their own goods classified as counterfeit just because they were being sold in a geographical area that they were not originally intended for, M$ and indeed anyone else for that matter has had the ability to price their products according to the geographical area it was intended for.

        You’re right, it is pretty unrealistic to expect people to pay prices in those terms as relates to typical incomes for a piece of software but the problem is not unique to your area. Free alternatives exist for both applications and operating systems and yet M$ still holds its top spot.

        By dropping their pricing, both relative to the regional income levels but also to what can easily be referred to as a more realistic level, the desire for people to accept a sub standard product should also be reduced.

        As popular as Open Office and Linux get, they are a long way from taking over anything, a sensible pricing structure could put them away for good. People dont like change and even companies running Office 97 will look to upgrade to Office 2007 before looking at Open Office even though they are both wildly different and superior from their existing 11 year old application suite.

        • #2753440

          An open mind

          by j-mart ·

          In reply to Market relative pricing

          It is a myth that for the average user that Open Office won’t do the job. Office ’97 does more than most average users will ever need. Many get sucked into the “must upgrade to the latest” that Microsoft and the IT industry encourage, the fact that your old version software does the job you require is not something they want you to realize. Pointless changes are made to file formats etc. to encourage upgrades and in many cases the expense of doing so does not repay itself with increased productivity.

          I work in a engineering / manufacturing environment, when we upgrade plant or equipment it is because a machine is worn out or superseded by superior technology and we are falling behind the competition. IT and software seems to be sold that it is new, not because it is better. The main software I use with my job is “Solid Works” 64bit on WinXP64 bit, which both feel a bit “beta” in-spite of the cost of both these products. Others in our organization have loaded the latest upgrade Ver 2009 SP2 and have not have the performance and productivity enhancements promised. I still use ver 2008 service pack 5, I could go back to Ver 2005 or 2006 or 2007 and I would not get my work done any slower.

          Software is just a tool, you learn how to use it then use it to do the task in front of you. If someone finds switching to Open Office from MS Office a big deal I would worry about their overall competency in performing their job as they both work in similar ways. Why would you need to pirate MS Office its not worth the bother unless your completely stupid. Personally I prefer Open Office to MS Office.

      • #2753433

        I would say

        by j-mart ·

        In reply to Price Point

        Amongst private individual users Microsoft would be smart enough to have worked out a level of piracy tolerance based on the alternative of more and more going over to open source alternatives. The last thing they would want is the eroding of the myth of Open Office not being a viable replacement, and much cheaper, alternative to MS Office in mant workplaces

    • #2753603

      Only if it provides a worthwhile return

      by tony hopkinson ·

      In reply to Are Microsoft doing enough to prevent illegal copies of Windows?

      Despite all these people ripping them off left right and centre, they still make billions.

      So where’s the cost benefit ratio. Securing software against piracy is a very expensive proposition. Got to be paid for. So how far do you take it before it puts off your legitimate customers. 99% of the pirates were never going to or even could never pay for it.

      Do you turn the customers with bent copies away?

      • #2753469

        Maybe thats the key?

        by andy ·

        In reply to Only if it provides a worthwhile return

        I know it sounds strange but part of the original question in my post was directly aimed at that option.

        Car theft is rampant and indeed all kinds of theft seem to be. But if you were a mechanic and a car came in for repair that was obviously stolen, would you work on it? Probably not, unless you were a jack of all trades with a set of spanners.

        If the theft of software was treated along the same lines and stores both big and small were liable for prosecution for “handling stolen goods” then the places people could take their PC’s would theoretically be greatly reduced.

        • #2748544

          The law already provides

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Maybe thats the key?

          for piracy as theft, well certainly in most western countries.

          The thing is at this level it’s near unenforceable.

          In the UK, you can tape your favourite soap to watch at your convenience, but if you keep it on the tape for more than thirty days after the program was televised, you have broken the law.

          Now anyone with an IQ above -30, would have deemed scribbling that law down on the last piece of toilet roll at a curry convention as a waste of time. But it’s there….

          WGA was effectively a direct respnse to a similar scenario. No government even if it’s stupid enough to pass such a law is going to police it.

          Would I work on stolen property? Depends, I didn’t steal it, could I afford to take the moral highground, after all I’ve got a mortgage to pay, a missus to kep in comfort…

          Either way, I absolutely refuse to be deemed liable by MS for it being stolen. My peers, family and friends, maybe, Bill can f**k right off though.

      • #2748440

        with the last advancement in anti-piracy..

        by neon samurai ·

        In reply to Only if it provides a worthwhile return

        it seems they can push the legitimate customers pretty far before the start loosing sales. After all, UAC and Genuine Advantage isn’t hurting cracked copies at all.

    • #2753598

      I don’t know.

      by boxfiddler ·

      In reply to Are Microsoft doing enough to prevent illegal copies of Windows?

      Is they?

    • #2753593

      Legit users are paying for it

      by wild card ·

      In reply to Are Microsoft doing enough to prevent illegal copies of Windows?

      Most goods and services have, within the pricing, allocations for damage and theft. With the volume M$ sells, they could probably put the price at $20-50 and still make a profit. But this is a free market, so they are allowed to be greedy and charge what they know businesses will pay.

      • #2753468

        Legit IT businesses too…

        by andy ·

        In reply to Legit users are paying for it

        Without doubt M$ have a responsibility for the amount of pirated copies of their products out there. They aren’t secured enough, we have to essentially beta test for years after the official release, they are expensive (could a new software company get away with charging for an OS and an Office suite the same amount M$ does?) etc etc.

        But while legit users may be paying a premium to cover the cost of these losses, legitimate retailers are also paying a price by not being able to legally compete with the shop on the back street thats installing dodgy OS & office for $50 a throw.

    • #2753437

      Buy once, copy lots

      by robcorro ·

      In reply to Are Microsoft doing enough to prevent illegal copies of Windows?

      In my experience, people trade copied discs of XP because it’s often the easiest way to fix a completely borked installation, and neatly sidesteps all of the activation bullshit that comes with installing genuine versions of XP. Nobody I know sees this as a crime: they bought a PC with Windows on it, which means they’ve already paid for it. Like it or lump it that’s how it’s seen by many.

      • #2748620

        “neatly sidesteps the activation *******”?

        by andy ·

        In reply to Buy once, copy lots

        We’re not talking about borrowing a mates disk to reinstall your OS once it craps out.

        Bullsh*t deals with manufacturers that allow them to install an OS but not provide the media are without doubt responsible for some of the piracy that goes on. But again that’s not what were talking about, if your machine has a valid license sticker on then you did indeed pay for the software.

        If you buy a system that doesn’t have a license sticker on then you either got screwed by your supplier when he sold you that PC at a “bargain” price or you knowingly bought a PC with a dodgy OS.

        But saying that installing an illegal copy of windows “neatly sidesteps the activation *******” is like saying stealing someone else’s license plates off their car neatly sidesteps the hassle of going to the Department of Motor Vehicles.

    • #2748626

      IMHO, MS will never do enough

      by jck ·

      In reply to Are Microsoft doing enough to prevent illegal copies of Windows?

      Because they see just busting 1 person as “not cost effective”, they won’t be doing enough in my book.

      Considering the cost of 1 Win XP Pro CD/COA/EULA is $139 and Vista Ultimate is $249, I would think that Microsoft with their technology would be able to trace where illegal copies are being used and forward that information to law enforcement to bust.

      After all, someone possessing a stolen piece of software is just as illegal as someone possessing a stolen bicycle.

      I just want the pirating to end, so MS has no excuse and has to lower their OS prices to what they should be…about $40 for a home version, and $75 for a business/professional version.

      • #2748617

        Hooray!!! I’m not alone

        by andy ·

        In reply to IMHO, MS will never do enough

        I agree whole heartedly with your comments about pricing and also the cost effectiveness of pursuing individuals.

        Surely Microsoft has the technology to just shut down systems that fail authentication?

        By putting the onus on the reseller and the support technicians and pursuing them the cost benefit increases greatly. A simple ad campaign alerting everyone that software piracy is theft and that fixing stolen software is a crime that will be pursued should be enough to help the situation greatly.

        If a user has nowhere good to take their PC for repair when it breaks down, paying for legal OS and insisting you get the disks and licenses with new systems has to become the norm rather than the exception.

        Plus having a more realistic price for an OS wouldn’t hurt.

        • #2748424

          it’s how they shut it down

          by neon samurai ·

          In reply to Hooray!!! I’m not alone

          or specifically how they decide it’s an invalid license.

          When Genuine Advantage first launched, they had a validation server go down and suddenly everyone updating was told they had illegal copies. Similarily, the default was to disable if Windows could not validate itself which means things like valid copies without communication access would decide to kill themselves. Change too much hardware in your own machine and it takes the suicide pill even now.

          The guilty until proven innocent approach combined with a bad method of deciding what is invalid causes more grief than not doing it at all. And it’s still only the paying customers that get stuck since those intending to use illegal copies already removed the validation function through various cracking methods.

        • #2768087

          FSM forgive me for saying this, but…

          by seanferd ·

          In reply to it’s how they shut it down

          What if someone wants to use a computer, but not the InterTubes?

          I’m not sure I remember what happens in that scenario.

        • #2768004

          Aong as you haven’t already been

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to FSM forgive me for saying this, but…

          deactivated, it will work quite happpily. Of course you won’t be able to take advantage of all those wonderful free updates on a Tuesday….

        • #2767990

          rumour is that it defaults to allow

          by neon samurai ·

          In reply to FSM forgive me for saying this, but…

          I remember the rumour being that if authentication servers are not available or when they are shut down, the OS is meant to default to allow.

          For me, the question was the same. What if one is in the middle of the atlantic without connectivity? There are still cases where having a phone or network connection to the outside is not possible.

          Default deny is preferable when securing one’s own data but in the case of being bound to a central authentication server, it has greater potential to harm the end user who’s rightfully obtained the software.

      • #2748426

        same problem in the server logs though

        by neon samurai ·

        In reply to IMHO, MS will never do enough

        A lot of suspicious traffic coming in from places overseas where the ISP let along police have no interest in persecuting the offenders. In the same way, there is a big world filled with places where Microsoft’s legal team can’t reach even if they do see repeated bad licenses in the update server logs.

        • #2748386

          yeah

          by jck ·

          In reply to same problem in the server logs though

          but that’s where they could that genuine advantage tool to lock things down.

          I mean after all, they don’t need to know where it is. Just that it’s using a key that’s already registered.

          they probably don’t do that cause they let Chinese government officials get away with it. lol

        • #2755036

          can’t have that now can we. :D

          by neon samurai ·

          In reply to yeah

          After all, MS has already had to do some scrambling to avoid loosing the Chinese market. 😉

        • #2766602

          yep…

          by jck ·

          In reply to can’t have that now can we. :D

          I remember MS giving a bunch of licenses to the Chinese, because the pirating was so rampant there that there were blackmarket hacks/clones of Windows…that actually ran better.

          Go figure. If you can’t beat them, become their whipping boy.

          Yay for MS. *cough cough*

          Now ya know why we pay $150-350 for a license of Windows: we’re paying for the 3rd world and rogue governments to get free ones.

        • #2766591

          we’re paying “what the market will bare”

          by neon samurai ·

          In reply to yep…

          They’ve done some math to figure out what the maximum price can be balanced against acceptable loss of sales. At what price, though the indavidual may not be willing to pay, can they charge on average to get maximum profits.

          Our market will pay more due to a number of reasons. If our market said ‘get stuffed, that’s not a reasonable price’ then the license cost would drop. Since that would require the enterprises doing the same, it’s unlikely to ever happen. A volume license for an enterprise covers a large number of installs and doesn’t look as expensive on the books as a single consumer license for a home user. Consider what OEMs pay per license versus what the consumer pays for a boxed copy; they’re noticeably different.

          I’m not saying “we have to cover losses from piracy so your price is higher” is not one of the justifications they use. It’s just one of many marketing talking points that our market eats up like donut sprinkles.

        • #2766531

          but on the flip side

          by jck ·

          In reply to we’re paying “what the market will bare”

          if Microsoft was getting $40 a copy (OEM pricing for installed OS) for each of the estimated 200M copies of Windows in China…think they could justify still charging me $159 for Windows XP Pro 64-bit?

          Well, they would try to…wouldn’t they.

          Lousy pigs. Now you know why I’m working at getting off of Windows. I’m tired of paying inflated prices…for the OS…and games.

    • #2748536

      They’ve already cracked Win7

      by oz_media ·

      In reply to Are Microsoft doing enough to prevent illegal copies of Windows?

      All three of the betas for Win7 were cracked within 24 hours of release. Windows claimed that the new betas were more secure and used a new licencing system….which took a whopping 24 hrs to crack, test and throw online.

      MS just needs to start hiring these people I guess, however, cracking a piece of software is a hell of a lot easier than writing the security to begin with. Just like picking a lock is so much easier than designing one too, I guess.

      It does justify their desire to provide Windows with new PC’s though, at least that way the main licence is paid for and by not providing an OS disk, disks can’t be shared with others.

      • #2748420

        that was the excuse given in the past too

        by neon samurai ·

        In reply to They’ve already cracked Win7

        “but your honor, if you allow these companies to sell computers without an OS, those machines will just be used to run stolen copies of our OS.”

        I believe that was approximately the defense given when Microsoft’s practice of punishing OEMs for selling machines without Dos/Windows or with competing OS was first questioned.

    • #2748436

      I’m sure I’ll get flamed for this but yes and no. It’s easy 2 steal the os.

      by forum surfer ·

      In reply to Are Microsoft doing enough to prevent illegal copies of Windows?

      First off, DRM is bad…I hate that crap. I lost 12 gigs of legally purchased music after a hard drive crash. I had it backed up. When I tried to restore it, I was told through a pop up that I needed to connect to X music store. Connect to music store. A newer copy of this album exists, please download. Click download. “You have not purchased this.” Now since I haven’t purchased anything in 6 months, my purchased folder is mysteriously empty. Several phone calls and emails to x music store have not resolved this.

      ::end pointless rant::

      Now, back to os’s. At work, thou shalt not steal. It’s policy. It’s the right thing to do.

      In the privacy of your own home? That’s up to you. The most the pirate police are going to do is deactivate your product and send you nasty messages if you registered an illegal product under your name. They are more focused on enterprise level theft where a lawsuit is financially viable.

      I don’t think any company will ever hound an individual for stealing one copy. Imagine the negative publicity Microsoft would get for criminally prosecuting a single mom with 2 young children who is running Vista illegally. Wow.

      I have no issue with someone running xp, office or whatever cracked. Those companies make their money in enterprise anyway. IS it ok? No, it is dead wrong to steal period.

      But I’d be lying if I said that everything on my personal pc were legit.

      That being said, I won’t touch someone’s illegal pc to fix it without making them buy a license off tops. Once you start distributing stolen copies or working on pc’s with illegal licenses you’re in the crosshairs. You’re business level at the point and it’s financially and ethically
      viable for microsoft to pursue you.

      • #2748422

        Is it because its software or is it because its Microsoft?

        by andy ·

        In reply to I’m sure I’ll get flamed for this but yes and no. It’s easy 2 steal the os.

        You’re absolutely right about Microsoft getting a bad rap for pursuing a single mom with 2 running Vista illegally, but what if it was Loblaws pursuing the same single mom for stealing $150+ worth of groceries?

        That would be acceptable in the eyes of the people but the MS scenario wouldn’t.

        Its funny that we (as a society) seem to condone stealing from rich folk or stealing certain things.

        But hey my view on music sharing seems to run in direct contradiction to this whole thread. lol

        • #2748405

          I see your point

          by forum surfer ·

          In reply to Is it because its software or is it because its Microsoft?

          But it would still be unacceptable in the eyes of the public regardless of the size of the company…in the scenario I described anyway.

          The difference is if Loblaws did it, the incident wouldn’t make national headlines and internet infamy on blogs and message boards within minutes of the event hitting the state court system’s public information site. Chances are the webadmin would see it and start blogging immediately, making the event go public before it actually goes public.

        • #2768081

          Difference being: wrong verb

          by seanferd ·

          In reply to Is it because its software or is it because its Microsoft?

          It is Infringement, not Theft or Stealing. It should be an entirely civil, not criminal, matter in the case of individuals using unlicensed copies of software. Selling unlicensed software should be criminal, but it is still infringement, and not theft. By infringing on a software license, the infringing party has not blocked access to said software to everyone else. Someone stealing things made of atoms has done this, hence it is theft.

          Saying it is infringement doesn’t make it right, but saying it is theft is entirely incorrect, by dictionary definition, and legal definition. Regardless of how many times “theft of IP” is incanted.

        • #2767991

          good clarification

          by neon samurai ·

          In reply to Difference being: wrong verb

          The specific terms make perfect sense when pointed out. I’ve wondered a few times about how to differentiate between removing an item from another’s possession versus duplicating an item without permission.

    • #2768133

      The answer is……

      by fxef ·

      In reply to Are Microsoft doing enough to prevent illegal copies of Windows?

      The simply answer is NO. A dongle would eliminate software piracy. They know this, so where’s the dongle? Microsoft had rather see a pirated copy of Windows running than a legit copy of Linux.

      • #2767262

        Man I hate dongles…

        by forum surfer ·

        In reply to The answer is……

        But you just might be right. Even still, there would be someone out there who could hack it and start distributing how-to’s on building your own thumb drive converted to dongle.

        Not to mention people would be stealing all my enterprise dongles at work even if I cemented them on. They’d just take the dongle home with a broken piece of the mb attached to it.

        Don’t say they won’t! At one job we had to fab tiny lock boxes and bolt them to desks with the dongle (for older versions of AutoCAD back in the day) bolted down by a tiny bracket inside and run a small cable from the box to the pc.

        Someone one went to the extreme of using tin snips to cut out part of a stainless steel desk in the fab shop. No matter who got caught and ot made an example of, no matter how much we stressed this was poor idea and you’d get fired…it never ended.

      • #2767225

        OK, now I have 6 proprietary apps, each with a dongle

        by nicknielsen ·

        In reply to The answer is……

        I also have a keyboard, a mouse, a flash drive, an MP3 player, and only 6 USB ports.

        Now what? External USB hub is not an option.

        edit: clarify

        • #2767161

          Hence, the Dongle Rack.

          by seanferd ·

          In reply to OK, now I have 6 proprietary apps, each with a dongle

          At first, it’ll be a the size of a small bookshelf behind a computer, but eventually systems will have an easy-open access panel to install the dongle chips. Too many apps? Buy a dongle expansion card, or get a new system.

          This is assuming the rapid adoption of an ISO standard dongle and dongle slot.

        • #2767016

          What about laptops?

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to Hence, the Dongle Rack.

          A small bookshelf is a bit much to carry around. And how do they integrate the dongle bay into an already over-full case?

          [i]This is assuming the rapid adoption of an ISO standard dongle and dongle slot.[/i]

          ISO? Rapid adoption? :^0 I hope you were kidding there, seanferd, but thanks for the laugh even if you weren’t. 😀

        • #2766997

          Laptops

          by seanferd ·

          In reply to What about laptops?

          Why, the Dongle-Dock, of course. 😀

          After undocking, you have 12 hours in which to use your applications until the laptop must again be docked.

        • #2766770

          :^0

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to Laptops

          Yeah, right! Dock this, sean! 😀 😉 :p

        • #2766684

          :^0 LOL !

          by seanferd ·

          In reply to :^0

          Thanks for the new catch-phrase.

          I’m sure it’s even better with gestures. 😀

        • #2766677

          Are you sure

          by w2ktechman ·

          In reply to Laptops

          you arent an MS designer??? :^0 :^0

          Somehow I think MS would hinder it more, I mean a whole 12 hour timeframe might mean that you were illegally pirating their SW between docks :0

          :^0 :^0

        • #2766663

          Well, yeah.

          by seanferd ·

          In reply to Are you sure

          And we can send you one of those unannounced “stealth” updates to pooch everything. Then the TR forums will light up with “My dongle won’t work!” They’ll have to borrow internet connectivity from someone with an unaffected OS, or who successfully blocked our righteous update. ]:) 😀

          I swear, that TR devil emoticon just bugs me.
          It’s just…wrong.

        • #2767522

          Don’t mention stealth updates to me!

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to Are you sure

          I made the mistake of leaving my laptop on line last night and this morning it told me “We updated your computer and had to reboot it to complete the update.” :0

          Logged on…took 10 minutes to complete. 😐
          Attempted to connect to the in-home wireless…failed. 🙁
          Attempted to connect with the 3G card…failed. :_|
          Tried to open Windows Explorer…failed. X-(

          Guess who got to re-image this morning? X-(

          Thankfully, I took an incremental backup on Monday morning. B-)

        • #2767408

          Stealth update blues…

          by forum surfer ·

          In reply to Are you sure

          I had a laptop that I forgot to disable the hardware auto update feature. I received an updated wireless, on board chipset (sata drivers included) and graphic driver that crashed my system pretty badly.

          Never use the nVidia or ATI drivers from windows updates…they are horrible. Stick with the ones from the manufacturer’s website. And toss away that silly, outdated driver cd they package, as well.

        • #2766931

          How about Dongle Daisy Chains? Or RFID dongles?

          by forum surfer ·

          In reply to Hence, the Dongle Rack.

          All dongles will come with 3 integrated usb ports so you can make Lego like interconnected dongle designs. Or better yet…wireless dongles, RFID chips that have to be injected into the user. Every piece of software you buy from this point forward comes with a syringe.

        • #2766682

          All right, we’d better start patenting our IP

          by seanferd ·

          In reply to How about Dongle Daisy Chains? Or RFID dongles?

          I’ll stay away from yours, you stay away from mine. 😀

          If a prior art search turns something up, we can always trademark the names.

        • #2766676

          :0 :0 :0

          by w2ktechman ·

          In reply to How about Dongle Daisy Chains? Or RFID dongles?

          you are purely evil!!! You must work at MS :0 :0 :0
          what a thought :0
          I guess I would be using ‘old’ SW

        • #2767405

          Just a thought!

          by forum surfer ·

          In reply to :0 :0 :0

          I mean, isn’t DRM just as evil????

      • #2767175

        Disagree!

        by dhcdbd ·

        In reply to The answer is……

        I have a legit copy of a Music effects program that came with a dongle. No dongle, no worky – right? Wrong!

        The dongle screwed up my computer a few times. Finally I downloaded a cracked version of the software that requires no dongle. It not only runs correctly, it has never screwed up my computer.

        Before the B-fest starts, I paid over $400 for a program to add computer effects to a guitar. It never worked correctly. I now use the cracked version, it works correctly, but I paid for the software.

        This is also true in the gaming market. One software house was caught using a crack when their DRM caused problems.

        Dongles are not the solution. Activation is not the solution either when you distribute software on external media because of the manufacturing limitations.

        • #2767159

          Dongles used to get “cracked” back in the day

          by seanferd ·

          In reply to Disagree!

          when they were popular.

          I think the answer is a different business model. I’m not going to figure it out, but the software vendors had better do it.

          As is, DRM will never work.

      • #2767080

        No it won’t

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to The answer is……

        It could make it more expensive to pirate, but integrating with dongles is nowhere near as cheap as the people who make them would have you believe.

        The simple answer is piracy doesn’t cost MS enough to spend any real resources on stopping it.

    • #2768063

      Supporting Post

      by deeseddie ·

      In reply to Are Microsoft doing enough to prevent illegal copies of Windows?

      I believe that Microsoft should really crack down the number of kengens off the net. The product activation program already has taken care of mass-distribution of a single windows copy & product key. However key generators and cracks are still widespread.

      I would also say OEM’s should not make it where you can bypass product activation on recovery CD’s. That is also another serious issue that should be stopped.

      Microsoft will also have to more closely monitor the WGA cracks on the net. [Via Google since Google doesn’t filter out pirated software.] Get a list of all the URL’s and bust the web site publishers with heavy fines & possible imprisonment.

      However even then people can make pirated copies of Windows in Linux.

      • #2767988

        “and bust the web site publishers”, and can you clarify the Linux issue?

        by neon samurai ·

        In reply to Supporting Post

        There are more than enough places where webservers can be hosted but US law can not reach and local law does not care. If shutting down hosting websites was a logistical possability, that would have become the normal practice already.

        The same problems exist for hunting malicious source IPs. you can never be sure that it’s not just a proxy or gateway on an innocent user’s computer or be sure if the local laws can be of any help.

        “However even then people can make pirated copies of Windows in Linux.”

        Can you clarify your meaning on this one? How is a Linux based OS any more special than osX, Windows, win98, BSD or a disk duplicating appliance with regard to piracy?

        • #2767260

          Look at the issue this way

          by deeseddie ·

          In reply to “and bust the web site publishers”, and can you clarify the Linux issue?

          Websites like thepiratebay.com are not even being shut down by government officals even after the swedish government know and came after them. We need law enforcement that actually enforces the law and has a 21st century since of where piracy occurs. The Law Enforcement agency should have officers on the net tracking issues like these.

        • #2767173

          Pirate Bay,

          by dhcdbd ·

          In reply to Look at the issue this way

          changed to decentralized servers in many countries after their bust. The case has not gone to court. The laws of that country allow the actions, even though the content industry complains. Pirate Bay is attempting to raise the money to buy their own island, if they succeed, then what because they become their own law?

          Wouldn’t the solution be to lower the cost of software to the point that people have no need to pirate it, and to dump the draconian copy protection that only screws up a computer? Opp’s, less profit.

        • #2767157

          Lower cost, or added value

          by seanferd ·

          In reply to Pirate Bay,

          Give the legal user of commercial software a better incentive to buy than some time-limited and really awful phone or remote support.

          These companies could also figure out how to use piracy to their advantage. Actually, in a lot of cases, piracy is already to their advantage, whether they realize this or not.

        • #2767023

          oh they realize it

          by neon samurai ·

          In reply to Lower cost, or added value

          An acceptable level of piracy of easily duplicated content means free advertising in a larger market base. I don’t think they overlook that at all.

        • #2766995

          Yeah, music industry are the big whiners there

          by seanferd ·

          In reply to oh they realize it

          They absolutely refuse to get it.

          I think a lot of larger software companies protest just so they can’t be accused of not protecting their IP. Certainly, they want more people to pay for it, once a market has been thoroughly penetrated.

        • #2767079

          Enforce who’s law ?

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Look at the issue this way

          If’ it’s US corporate, you need to fund a few more invasions, that wouldn’t fly in Europe, never mind, Russia, China, in fact nowhere.

        • #2767025

          resources

          by neon samurai ·

          In reply to Look at the issue this way

          that’s how it was put simply be an RCP officer who was working in the computer crimes unit at the time. They care about predatory computer crime and big ticket organized computer crime; a stolen song is low down on the list.

          If you have five officers and $100k for the project; do you go after embeslment and fraud, child predators or highschool kids and grandmothers that may have infringing media?

          A simple experiment is to try and track all discussions on TR right now related to Linux based OS. Also, keep up with all discussions not originally about but now including Linux based OS. Now, keep up with each thread that unravels from the root. I’m pretty sure I’d get lost in that experiment pretty quickly even if the updates subscriptions where working.

      • #2767956

        I believe that world poverty

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to Supporting Post

        should be eradicated as well.

        And that git of a tooth fairy owes me money

        However back in the real world…..

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