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Brink of Destruction, aka What would Maxwell do?

By AnsuGisalas ·
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<a href=http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/oceans-on-brink-of-catastrophe-2300272.html>A catastrophic collapse of marine life?</a>

This would be bad.

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Problem is, we will still be polluting

by Michael Jay In reply to Human activity

even if it is a little less, the fact that more and more cars trucks planes and such keep coming on line, more manufacturing, more everything, there is no way we can really stop the pollution.

So, with any luck we can cause our own mass extinction and thus save the earth.

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Polution is one issue - MM GW/CC is another

by maxwell edison In reply to Human activity
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I told you already Max.

by AnsuGisalas In reply to Human activity

MMCC is a tool.
Nobody cares if it's correct or not.
Only ones standing to gain from it being wiped off the table are the power elite of some countries surrounding the persian gulf...

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Our different perspectives, Ansu

by maxwell edison In reply to Human activity

As far as I'm concerned, the claim of MM GW/CC is being advanced by (other) power elites to further their own power and control. I find it very telling that ALL of the, so-called, solutions being proposed are socialist in nature. You're also naive about the viability of alternate energy solutions. If they were viable, free markets would chase them and embrace them.

Moreover, the US is the Saudi Arabia of coal, and that's under attack as well. Which totally dispels your silly notion about the oil-rich Arab nations. Besides, we import more oil from Canada and Mexico than we do from them.

I could go on.......

The bottom line is this. The MM GW/CC claim is an attack on free markets and the freedom of movement. And it's a huge power grab (by power elites) - all based on an unproven theory, at best, or a huge scam at worst. I suspect the latter. Check that. I KNOW it's the latter.

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Re: .....but the rate of change has accelerated because we all pollute.

by maxwell edison In reply to Human activity

I ask you to prove that assertion.

Re: profit off of climate change

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/22/nasa-scientist-accused-using-celeb-status-among-environmental-groups-to-enrich/

It's all a big lie and scam, AV. Don't buy into it.

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Maxwell...

by AnsuGisalas In reply to Human activity

Maybe your problem is that your forte History, is written with hindsight.
As such, you may be overly mechanistic in your idea of power and the workings of the free market. The free market forces, as you picture them, are incapable of foresight - they'll always stick with what's working right now, never bothering to invest in what will be working in twenty years.
Luckily you're wrong. However, corporations have to have an excuse to spurn immediate short-sighted gain. They have to have Curtain of Oz with which to distract their shareholders, sometimes. And CC fits the bill, so they have jumped at it. Look around, big companies are championing - not alternative energy - but rather the importance of Climate Change.

Because it fits their plans. They know their Macchiavelli.

Coal. You can't pour coal in your car. You can't pump it down a pipeline. It's not the money-making machine that oil is. Natural gas is a different matter, but the volatility makes it iffy.

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ANSU

by maxwell edison In reply to Human activity

Maybe your problem is that your forte History, is written with blinders. (forte history? WTF is that?) You and your Nordic perspective, the land of socialist democrats.

As such, you may be overly mechanistic in your idea of power and the workings of the free market. The free market forces, unlike how you picture them, are indeed capable of foresight while accommodating current consumer demands. They DO INDEED invest in what will be working in twenty years. Most major business have R&amp departments to do that very thing. Pharmaceutical companies spend decades researching and developing new drugs. I could go on.

However, like all good socialist-democrats, you have to have an excuse to spurn free markets. They have to have a Curtain of Oz with which to distract their followers. And EVIL big business fits the bill, so they have jumped at it.

Re: Coal. You can't pour coal in your car. You can't pump it down a pipeline. It's not the money-making machine that oil is. Natural gas is a different matter, but the volatility makes it iffy.

But it's STILL under attack by the MM GW/CC crowd. And we have wind turbines popping up all over the place - subsidized wind turbines, of course. Because wind power is SO expensive - upwards of 35 cents per Kilowatt hour, versus 3 cents for coal power - that it can't stand (or spin) on it's own merit.

Taxing carbon. Calling CO2 a pollutant. Carbon credits. Subsidizing nonviable energy. Its all a scam based on a lie.

(Written in the manner it was to use the same tone, attitude, and assumptions towards you that you used towards me.)

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Now you're talkin, Max! : Edit : except, you did it again. Phantom menace

by AnsuGisalas In reply to Human activity

Sorry about the tone, but if you notice, when we disagree, you don't often answer to my answers to you, and I do believe this is the first time you've made it to the next level after that.

I'll give you that I'm too European to fully trust the grand benevolence of the market forces, nor their ineffable genius I tend to think they're shortsighted and greedy, except where a charismatic CEO has the trust of the Board.
And yes, you do see these strange expensive turbines... just like you used to see strange expensive toilet seats in submarines; that's your political pork barrels for you, not a representation of what's the best of the new breed.

It is a battle between the elites, you're right about that too.

Coal and gas are not as attractive as oil, so they are being sacrificed for the cause. Better to save the coal resources for later, than to let "their" power elite buy out "our" power elite. After all, the coal is not going anywhere. A powerplant is easier and faster to rebuild or recommission than a billion cars. Once the cars phase to other fuels, the Oil Addiction is a thing of the past.
To many of the big businesses driving the CC train, this is just a shoe-horn to get out of a check-mate situation waiting to happen.

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Max

by AV . In reply to Human activity

This is my opinion about global warming and climate change. In my lifetime, I can't remember such drastic changes in the weather as I've seen in the past few years and the effect on our environment. Hurricane Katrina, the Mississippi River floods, the Missouri River floods. Massive snowfall in the Northeast and snow in the Southeast. I could go on, but I think we can both agree, its caused by global warming/climate change. The video below was from January of this year, before the floods occurred in the US.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UalkAQyW7xs

Much of the snowpack caused the flooding in the Missouri River systems.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/06/28/midwest.flooding/

Man has played a big part in global warming, in my opinion, but most of all, companies are to blame. If I take a ride on the NJ Turnpike around Linden or up near Secaucus in NJ. all I can see are companies spewing emissions into the air. Its eerie and a must-see if you ever want to experience first-hand why man contributes to global warming. At night, that stretch of highway looks surreal. Smokestacks spewing God knows what into the air. I look at that and wonder what companies in India or China are doing with their pollution and then I realize we are all flocked. After all, we are a global village.

http://www.environmentnewjersey.org/in-the-news/global-warming/global-warming/n.j.-spews-key-pollutant-at-record-rate

We're still debating climate change and global warming and deciding whether its manmade when we should be looking to establish a global policy on greenhouse gas emissions .If theres even a possibility that man might be causing this by doing certain things, than lets stop doing that now. We're heading for a cliff.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Whales-plankton-migrate-apf-2739949204.html?x=0&.v=1

Our world has changed either way, like it or not.

AV

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Yup. And not even dynamite fishing this time.

by AnsuGisalas In reply to Are you fishing, Ansu?

The mention of your name is actually a homage to the massive threads you've whipped up in the past.

Climate change I already adressed <a href=http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/103-344405>here</a>.
You may have missed it.

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