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Car Bombings

By Oz_Media ·
EVRY day we see more and more car bombings killing more and more people in Iraq. Certainly there are also people being shot by indurgent, raodside bombs and even suicide bombers.

One thing I thought last night when seeing how more people had died in a car bombing, WHY are there cars driving around in downtown Iraq?


Why haven't they COMPLETELY blocked off the city center and controlled who enters the city in a car and who doesn't?

Not in the sense of border patrols but just NO CARS IN DOWNTOWN BAGHDAD. People can walk, ride bicycles or roller skates or whatever but NO cars.

They even do this in downtown Vancouver on major event nights, Grey Cup, Stanley Cup , Fireworks etc. It is SHUT DOWN.

I haven't studied a street map of downtown Baghdad yet but I am sure it would at least reduce car bombings by removing a tool. Local deliveries etc. can be authorized at checkpoints right before entering the city, dogs can sniff bombs in a controlled envionment. It also reduces the amount of 'general' traffic that would go unnoticed.

Yss, it will inconvenience Iraqi's, they are also in the middle of a war which I am sure is a BIT of an inconvenience in iteself. I considered the freedom issue, this may be seen as removing freedoms, but they don't HAVE any freedoms YET, they are occupied by another country's military.

So I wonder why they would allow public trafic near police recruiting centers, government buildings etc.

I think they are trying to impose on them as little as possible but this is just allowing too much freedom of movement and leading to more lives lost. Just like protecting the president, they have to realize reedom of movement needs to be controlled.

Shut down traffic in downtown Baghdad, get rid of the cars, get rid of the car bombs.

I understand that there are issues elsewhere and cars in the middle east can't be stopped all together, but in key areas where attacks have ben continuous and constant, shut down th roads, regulate and control exactly who drives where and when, for what reason etc.

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Disk With U.S. Schools Info Found in Iraq

by Garion11 In reply to Car Bombings

Disk With U.S. Schools Info Found in Iraq
Friday, October 08, 2004


WASHINGTON ? Federal law enforcement authorities notified school districts in six states last month that a computer disk found in Iraq (search) contained photos, floor plans and other information about their schools, two U.S. officials said Thursday.

The downloaded data found by the U.S. military in July ? all publicly available on the Internet ? included an Education Department (search) report guiding schools on how to prepare and respond to a crisis, said one official, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The officials said it was unclear who downloaded the information and stressed there is no evidence of any specific threats involving the schools.

The districts mentioned are in Georgia, Florida, Michigan, New Jersey, Oregon and California. The officials said last month FBI (search) agents in charge of those areas alerted local education and law enforcement officials about the finding.

The officials did not provide the names of the districts. But Salem, Ore., Superintendent Kay Baker confirmed her district was among them.

"Local law enforcement has no knowledge of a specific threat to any of our school buildings," she said. "We will work collaboratively with law enforcement on any further developments."


San Diego schools also were included, according to The San Diego Union-Tribune, and ABC News said there was a second California district. The Salem Statesman Journal reported the other districts were Fort Myers, Fla.; Jones County, Ga.; Birch Run, Mich.; and Franklinville and Rumson, both in New Jersey.

The disk contained an Education Department report called "Practical Information on Crisis Planning: A Guide for Schools and Communities," published in May 2003, as well as photos and floor plans.

In a separate but more widespread warning put out this week, the Education Department advised school leaders nationwide to watch for people spying on their buildings or buses to help detect any possibility of terrorism like the deadly school siege last month in Russia.

The warning follows an analysis by the FBI and the Homeland Security Department of the siege that killed nearly 340 people, many of them students, in the city of Beslan.

"The horror of this attack may have created significant anxiety in our own country among parents, students, faculty staff and other community members," Deputy Education Secretary Eugene Hickok said in a letter sent Wednesday to schools and education groups.

The Education Department's advice is based on lessons learned from the Russia siege. But there is no specific information indicating a terrorist threat to any schools or universities in the United States, Hickok said.

Federal law enforcement officials also have urged local police to stay in contact with school officials and have encouraged reporting of suspicious activities, the letter says.

In particular, schools were told to watch for activities that may be legitimate on their own ? but may suggest a threat if many of them occur.

Among those activities:

? Interest in obtaining site plans for schools, bus routes and attendance lists.

? Prolonged "static surveillance" by people disguised as panhandlers, shoe shiners, newspaper or flower vendors or street sweepers not previously seen in the area.

? Observations of security drills.

? People staring at or quickly looking away from employees or vehicles as they enter or leave parking areas.

? Foot surveillance of campuses involving individuals working together.

The effort is the latest by the Education Department and other federal agencies to encourage school officials to maintain and practice a plan for responding to emergencies.

"It's a positive sign that they're finally discussing this after years of downplaying or denying even the possibility of a terrorist strike on schools," said Kenneth Trump, a Cleveland-based school safety consultant who has worked with officials in more than 40 states. "Public officials are in fear of creating fear, but we have to put the cards on the table, educate people in the school community and make sure they are well prepared."

After the terrorist takeover of the Russian school, President Bush asked his top advisers to review their strategies for dealing with hostage situations, Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge has said.

The federal government is advising schools to take many steps to improve the security of their buildings. Those include installing locks for all doors and windows, having a single entry point into buildings and ensuring they can reach school bus drivers in an emergency.

The Education Department sent its letter by e-mail Wednesday to school police, state school officers, school boards, groups representing principals and many other organizations.

The Homeland Security Department also sent a bulletin to federal, state and local emergency officials to provide fresh guidance based on the review of the school siege in Russia


Imagine that, if we never went into Iraq, this would have never been found. If its your kid that was saved BECAUSE we found this, what do you have to say about the Iraq war after this you stupid thoughtless lefty loonies?

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Well, it seems to bring the obvious response

by go_browns_01 In reply to Disk With U.S. Schools In ...

Gee, Bush's poll numbers must have been down.

Or, why was this kept since July, the schools were not notified until last month, there is no specific information but this much is released to the public the day of the second presidential debate. (It must be the trifecta that just keeps paying off.)

Seems to beg the question, how stupid do they think we all are?

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What an ignorant analogy

by Oz_Media In reply to Disk With U.S. Schools In ...

Okay, so some information on US schools was found more than a year after the invasion.

The problem I see in EVERY one of your posts is that you STILL don't seem to understand why many people oppose the war.

It isn't that people think Iraq should hae been left alone and it is NOT because people thought Iraq wasn't a country full of terrorism.

THE WHOLE WORLD ARGEED IRAQ SHOULD BE LIBERATED OKAY?

So what's the problem then?

Your presisdent.

He conferred with Allies AND the UN, he said that should weapons inspections continue to fail he would use force to ensure they were completed (no invasion yet) he then removed inspectors who were doing exactly what was expected of them and took preemptive action on Iraq based solely on the issue that he was assured that saddam had STOCKPILES of WMD.

This was not planned, it was not favoured and it went DIRECTLY against his word, in essence GWB LIED, whether WMD were found or not, he went against his word (which everyone seems to value so much).

So if a year or so later you find evidence that these people are terrorists, how is that news?
We KNEW there were/are terrorists in Iraq. (not the ones that had atacked you, which are rebuilding happily all over the world without hinderance, but smaller groups).

I don't see what possible point you could be trying to make, you completely misunderstand WHY people are against this war and continue to think that proving there is terrorism in Iraq will get people to conveniently forget that Bush went against his word, he mislead the people of America with VERY little evidence to go on. Others said to wait and prove the allegations, Bush went to war.

So instead of actually fighting the force that DID attack you, that HASN'T been stopped, that CONTINUES to build it's regime and plan ways to harm free democratic nations that agree with the USA, you are sidetracked in a 200 billion dollar war in a country that was NOT an immediate threat.

As for the school maps, if some of these are security maps, isn't it just mere speculation to say that they wre plannig a hit on US schools? Perhaps someone in Iraq was looking for somewhee safe to send his child, perhaps a school administrator in Iraq was seeking ways to better protect and secure the children in Iraqi schools who keep getting kidnapped, who knows, I don't and you sure as **** don't.

You are very good at premature prosecution before evidence is proven. In your eyes it is guilty until proven innocent, fortunately that is NOT the way western law works. If you want to display the strength of democracy and freedom to these people, you must lead by example. Condemming a person due to some computer dils and web searches is insane and NOT American or Diplomatic at all, it displays rash judgement and a desire to punish.

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And what you don't want to understand or keep missing the point is

by Garion11 In reply to What an ignorant analogy

Your post is the kind of the September 10th mentality that we stopped following. If you don't agree with it, thats too bad. You don't like it, again thats too bad. If you think Iraq wasn't a threat to us, this information proves otherwise. If you are too stupid to understand your CONTRADICTION regarding Bush getting the terrorists ANGRIER because he invaded Iraq thats not my problem (LOL, forget the fact that the terrorists were mad and wanted to kill you before, you are angry at Bush for pissing them off even more, LOLOL). WTF aren't you understanding? This UN crap has been tried for 30 years, (10 years with Iraq and the resolutions) they don't solve SHI/T. They have never solved anything. America has been under attack by the radical islam wing (which seems to be very prevalant in the middle east) since 1979 if not even before. This is the first time we responded. If you don't like it, thats too bad. You don't want to support us, thats ok, but don't be shocked and act all chummy chum/buddy buddy when someone calls you an anti-american. Look at you, you try to build up any argument and twist every sentence to think of anyway to put the facts and evidence down..and soon after you will believe it too.

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Souds like you just described yoru own actions

by Oz_Media In reply to And what you don't want t ...

While you insist on flaming others you don't realize the complete hypocrisy in what you are saying.

Like Maxwell said, the people here with some common sense who don't ignore reality due to core values are not people you will ever understand nor be able to get to adhere to your warped thought process.

The way you guys derive on your conclusions is second grade at best, you have such tiny simplistic ways of seeing things that it will be impossible to ever get the full picture.

Sorry man, you simply can't keep up.

So go ahead and post you blah blah blah comments, you do that well when you don't have the ability to formulate a reply. There's too many of you cretins skulking about this forum for me to constantly reiterate points for you, you'll neer get it anyway.

No matter what I have said, you still haven't provided ANY proof to support your allegations that I hate America and Americans, not a single word. You just keep rambling on and on with no answers, just questions for others.

What you do is reach an assumption based on my feelings toward your looney president. Thankfully, not all Americans are as aimple minded as some of you guys are and the world has a hope as long as these people are allowed to have a voice.

Yeah I know blah blah blah, maybe THAT's why you don't understand anything you don't want to believe.

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JUST LIKE YOU

by Garion11 In reply to Souds like you just descr ...
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Speaking of loonies...

by go_browns_01 In reply to Disk With U.S. Schools In ...

"Government officials said the FBI has not found any link to terrorism, and said there is no information indicating a plot against any school in the United States."
"There is no indication anyone was on the ground casing the schools, a senior government official said."
"The Homeland Security official said the material was associated with a specific individual in Iraq, and it could not be established that this man had any ties to terrorism. He did have a connection to civic groups doing planning for schools in Iraq, the official said."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/10/08/schools.iraq/index.html

Ah, Bush's invisible running mate,
Fear.

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War in Iraq

by techie9 In reply to Car Bombings

I know that this post is old but I came upon it and felt compelled to post a reply. I know that the things that I say will receive much criticism and judging by what I have read I will probably receive very angry remarks from some; however, here I go.

First, it bothers me to see that this nation is so torn over all that has happened since 9/11/2001. But I am not surprised. After all, if the U.S. is not great for any other reason, it is great for the fact that each of us has the right to express our opinion even if it is different from those in power. I hope that we can at least agree with that.

Second, after watching the events over the past 3 years or so, I have come to the conclusion that the U.S., as a nation, cannot do anything right. Our every action is scrutinized by the entire world. And it doesn't matter how much or how little we do we are always in the wrong. Example, the tsunami relief effort. The U.S. immediately made an initial pledge of $15 million dollars to help aid victims and immediately we were criticised for being "stingy". Notice the emphasis on the word 'initial'. Was it not enough that the U.S. responded immediately? Apparently not. Personally I think that it was responsible of our nation's leaders to make an initial commitment and leave room to make adjustments once the true devastation caused by the tsunami was analyzed. And not to be a jerk but I am curious to know what kind of support the countries affected by the tsunami gave to the U.S. immediately following the events of 9/11/2001. Just curious??

Now, on to the focus of this post. For all of those opposed to the U.S. action in Iraq here is a bit of interesting reading.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/decade/sect2.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/profile/saddam_hussein.shtml

I am not about to say that the U.S. has no interest in the oil reserves in Iraq. We all live in the real world here. We are a nation that runs off of oil. However, Suddam Hussein gave the U.S. every reason in the world to take action against Iraq. Especially after the events of 9/11. I believe that it was irresponsible for the U.N. to not take action against a nation that has so openly defied its laws. You may as well not have a U.N. if it is not willing to adeqautely enforce it own policies. Suddam Hussein and his regime have received exactly what they deserved if not less.

So, now that we are there, why not take every precaution to protect the lives of our troops and those who are trying to create a better world for the Iraqi people. And this brings me back to the original post by OZ_Media. Although it would not be easy, yes let's do something about the car bombing situation which currently seems to be one of the biggest threats in Iraq. It may be extreme, costly and almost impossible but let's get the cars off of the roads. There are so many interlinked positives to this. It would save lives. Is there any better reason??? If you argue this point you just don't want to accept reality. It would allow a system to be developed for creating a stable lifestyle for Iraqis. You can now get basic services back on track. Now you can put people back on the streets who are both trusted and accounted for through a controlled interviewing environment. This will ensure that the few on the roads are there to service the communities and not there to take innocent lives. Most importantly, you can now concentrate more on the task at hand: establishing a government that will allow the Iraqi people to govern themselves.

Most of those in Iraq who oppose the current military occupation do so because they are loosing power. A privilege which they grossly abused. I will not go into the countless atrocities that I have read about or seen reports about from Iraq's own people. I am glad that the U.S. is in Iraq. Could things have been handled better? Sure but hindsight is always 20/20. And even though innocent lives will be lost during combat, so many more have already been lost at the hands of Suddam Hussein.

And maybe just maybe, at the end of all of this, we will all be paying a little less at the gas pumps which I'm sure we have all complained about at some point.

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Fair but simplistic and narrowly focused

by Oz_Media In reply to War in Iraq

First off, you posted a link to outdadted information on The White House website, this is not an unbiased onr accurate source of information to begin with.

Even that site itself, offered documentaion that contradicted the statement you linked to. About 9 months AFTER it was there, it was changed by removing 22 pages of incriminating information against the US surrounding the issues described in your link.

But either way, I don't think there is a sole alive that doesn't feel that Saddam was not an evil dictator, this doesn't however justify invasion at any length. Especially under the false premises on which it was promoted and sold to the people of America.

There are other countries that are proven to be a much greater and growing threat to the US and other countiresin the world, yet these are not a focus for anyone it seems. Saddam was bad, not th e baddest and most definitely not the biggest threat to others, perhaps just preconceived as an EASIER foe to deal with, which proves itself untrue with every dead American. Saddam didn't "have it coming", if so there were bigger fish to fry if based on the same premises. Even if he did, it does not justify a single nation deciding to make such a call even against it's own allies recommendations.

The issue with controlling traffic, even in speciic areas, has been squashed by many who simply cannot envision exsitence where you can't drive to the front door of your destination. I am told apparently Iraqi's feel the same and rely on their cars the same way, even though most common citizens have never owned a car.

You say hindsight is 20/20 VERY casually as if realizing that you shouldn't leave ice cream on the counter overnight. We are talking about killing thousands of inocent civilians, destroying civillian homes and sending thousands of American citizens to fight for your freedoms, and dying in the process. Hindsight is 20/20 doesn't cut it.

What you see as hindsight, your alies saw as foresight, which was completely ignored by President Bush and P.M.Tony Blair, of course due to the certainty that Saddam had stockpile of WMD and was planning to attack the USA.

This was completely disregarding the current and very visual threat of al-Qaeda who have rebuilt around the world incuding INSIDE the US for the sole purpose of wreakign havoc and terrorizing the free Christian nations. We aren't talking 9/11 here, this is Saddam and Irag, not al-Qaeda, the known terrorists the rest of the world is out to stop.

The UK was in MUCH greater danger of attack than the US at that point.

SO while you do raise some issues, they are old issues and certainly not issues that justify or explain the misinformation provided to convince others to support the incasion.

When some countries asked for more proof, they were chastized as being weak or pathetic, sometimes considered traitors that support such actions and the citizens of these countries were told they don't care for their familes or citizens.

The need for more proof has now proven to be a valid doubt.
"Sure but hindsight is always 20/20. And even though innocent lives will be lost during combat, so many more have already been lost at the hands of Suddam Hussein."

Just seems like such a lighthanded and flippant excuse for thousands of innocents dying under the US thumb it isn't funny.
Tell that to the soldiers parents, "Hey, hindsight is 20/20 but he had killed people when he was at war against them."

Saddam used chemical weapons against the Kurds, the US knew about it and had ignored the use of these weapons while still in their best interests. When they realized they let a madman have a gun, they also realized that he had the possibility of turning that gun on them too! Go figure, who'd-a-thunk-it?

So their resolution is to invade the country on a false premise, knowing that they had happily let him use these weapons in the past and he apprently wasn't giving them up, while building his stockpile to attack the us SOMEHOW, without a delivery system of course.

Hindsight shows me that the rest of the world had foresight, the premise offered was misleading and wrong. The US COULD have proven it, they chose not too.

UN inspectors WERE working successfully and were allowed to finish their inspections, until the USA removed them. The plan was supposed ot be to use force to complete inspections if needed, then it was to use force if inspections failed and finally removing inspectors and launching a full invasion.


Hindsight really is 20/20 isn't it? What a big mistale THAT was/is!

Too bad they chose to ignore other's forsight and learn the hard way.

Americans dead for no reason, to prevent the possible death of Americans that were not threatened by Saddam.

NOw what about the terrorist organization responsible for 9/11?

They are all over the world with barley a dent in their organization, in fact it has grown in proprtions unseen before and they continue to plot ways of taking away your freedom.


Oen other thin gI noticed was a little bit of self pity for your poor hard done by country that nobody respects.

Everyone responded immediately to the tsunami devastation. They simply didn't hold you as the biggest saviour of the world, others contributed form much smaller countries with fewer citizens.
Then I read so many comparrisons abotu who donated what and that the US did more than most, sorry two-way street here mate.

It's not an issues of whether or not America halps, this is simply uncontestable. It is more of an issue of saying "LOOK HOW MUCH WE HELP!!! WE DO WAY MOR ETHAN ANYONE ELSE" that makes people look down on you as a society.

Unfortunately , th eworl dcan't unite to support a common oal without a who does more contest, which is pure crap.

The US will ship thousands of bags of grain and mdeical supplies around the world, in big bags with USA in bold letters on them for all to see and praise.

Canada on the other hand will spend money to have a local grain factory in the area provide the same support but without the Maple leaf stanped on them and planes flying around the world as it is seen as more resourceful and cost effective.

Sorry for the length and typos.
What happens is Americans watch TV news of these events and see USA all over the place and therefore see US support only. I see the US news here, it is 100% focused on what th eUS does, not what the world is doing, unless to show the US is doing more.

People get sick of th eholier than thou, attitude constantly thrown at them everyday and Americans just don't like this. It is seen as a personal attack on your country, instead of a reality based on overexposure.

I LOVED AC/DC but got sick of hearing Back In Black after it was saturated in the marketplace, a few years after airplay slowed, I began to like it again.

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