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Check this out. (talk about technology and privacy rights!)

By TomSal ·
I was pretty un-nerved by this demonstration I found at www.aclu.org/pizza

If this is where we are headed in the USA that is just plain scary. Take a look (make sure you have audio or else you won't get the full effect of how absurd this is).

I'd like to see people's thoughts on this after they watch it. I can't believe this is what the goverment has in mind, or I should said I don't want to believe it. This is just messed up.

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Believe it

by AV . In reply to Check this out. (talk abo ...

Maybe the video is a little far fetched right now, but if our government could do it, they would - especially the Bush Administration. I would definitely be making homemade pizza if I had a pizza place like this one!

It started with the Patriot Act. Now the government is pushing to get all medical records online. Do you know what happens to your medical records? I don't, and honestly I never asked - but I'm going to start.

The minute we have the National ID card that has been proposed and bantered about for awhile, we will start to see our personal information in the hands of people that don't need to know that information. Like the checkout clerk at a store. Oh, great. God Bless America!

I think the National ID card will come about because of our illegal immigration problems with Mexico. Our government will have to do something, and this will be their answer. Its similar to how the Patriot Act was brought about as a result of 9/11.

This is too scary a scenario, but its going to happen anyway to some degree because of terrorism. After 9/11 we lost our freedom. I don't know if we can ever get it back. The only thing we can do is fight back and support legislation for strong privacy laws whatever way you can.

I used to just think about retiring one day to a warmer climate, now I think about retiring to another country. I'm not sure though, that we won't all be in the same boat one day. Ah, globalization - don't you just love it?

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Wake up screaming

by jdclyde In reply to Believe it

Your medical records AND your credit ratings have been an open book long before the Patriot Act, or Bush. Don't let your dislike of the man blind you to what is and has been going on for a long time.

Did you know when you apply for a job they check your crimial background, your credit rating and your medical records. Not, it isn't legal but when has that stopped people in a position of power from doing whatever they want? Yes, When the Dems ran the country for so long there were many abuses going on. Do you actually think Enron STARTED after Bush got in office?

How many times have you had to put your SS number on an application? There are laws AGAINST it being used like that, but it still is and we follow along like good little sheep.

Don't give "your" party a free pass just because you hate the "other" party. EVERYone in government has to be watched and held accountable, not just the ones you don't like.

Tell me specificly what freedom YOU have lost since 9/11. Something you have PERSONALLY happen to YOU, not some rumor you heard around the water cooler or on CNN or the wild eyed half crazed rantings of Ted Kennedy.

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My post wasn't just about Bush

by AV . In reply to Wake up screaming

It was about government as a whole eroding our freedoms away because of 9/11 and not protecting our privacy to the point that one day my pizza place may know every personal detail of my life.

Its perfectly legal for an employer to do a criminal background check or full background check that would include credit information and lots of other information. They can also require you to take a physical and they have access to the results of that. But they don't have free access to all of your medical history.

It surely isn't about one party or one administration. Incidentally, I'm not a party loyalist like yourself. I choose the party that I think will do the best job at the time. Sometimes its democrat, sometimes republican.

Absolutely this has been going on for a long time. Both parties should take equal blame. After 9/11 though, there was a window of opportunity for the government to gain more control over its citizens citing terrorism as the reason. The Patriot Act gave government many new powers that could be used wisely or abused. Both have happened. Are we safer? I don't think so. I think we citizens just have less freedom. I know if I was a terrorist I would enter the country through Mexico. Its apparently very easy, has been for a long time. Our government will not close the border and instead avoids the issue.

Government, as a whole, is not moving fast enough to protect our privacy. Even though I don't give out my social security number except when absolutely necessary and haven't for many years, it doesn't matter because too many companies have it already.

How has this affected me personally? No longer can I just go through life as a happy sheep. When I go to public places I have to look around for suspicious people or suspicious packages. When I get on a plane, I need a photo ID and have to make sure I don't have a lethal weapon with me like a pair of tweezers. I have to make sure my doctor's office didn't post the results of my cholesterol test online or they may fire me from work for being over the limit. I have to opt out of each and every one of my creditors privacy policies so they don't sell my name to their affiliates. I have to do that as often as required or else my personal information ends up in Singapore or another exotic location.

I used to think of exotic locations as vacation spots. Now I'm waiting for the identity thieves to steal my records at Bank of America. Then they will be the one with the cholesterol problems.

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Clarification?

by jdclyde In reply to My post wasn't just about ...

"It surely isn't about one party or one administration. Incidentally, I'm not a party loyalist like yourself. I choose the party that I think will do the best job at the time. Sometimes its democrat, sometimes republican."

Are you implying that like me your not, or unlike me your not?

If the later is implied, then I don't think you have read my posts openly.

I have defended against what are purely emotional statements that are factually inacruate, true.

I don't make excueses, not blindly follow under a political flag.

Many of my thoughts are based along a the political "right" because I was raised with a sence of self-respect and personal responsability that it seems many from the "left" run a little short on.

I don't think the government should be stepping in our lives trying to solve every social woe you may come across.

I think people have an obligation to support themselves and their families.

Yes, an EMERGENCY safety net whould be in place to assist getting people on their feet. It is inexcuseable and irrisponsible to have ANYONE on welfare for more than two years, and continue to have more children while already on assistance.

I think people should buy locally to support local businesses that sell local products. Shopping at the Walmart is putting americans out of work and replacing them with lower waged jobs at the walmart.

And based on your post, (intended or not) is was stated that Bush was a big part of your problem. If this was the case, I was just pointing out that the problems have been going on for a while. I also asked you to provide information as to what you have seen to support this. That is NOT making excuses for anyone about anything. If you have information that is more than watercooler talk, I would LOVE to hear it. That is called having an open mind that I would listen to you.

Not trying to be arguemenative, just a discussion of point / counter point.

I await your counter to my counter.

Have a great weekend!

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I'm implying that you are a party loyalist

by AV . In reply to Clarification?

"Many of my thoughts are based along a the political "right" because I was raised with a sence of self-respect and personal responsability that it seems many from the "left" run a little short on."

Thats a right-winger statement for sure with no room for any other opinions. You may have me categorized as a left-winger because I don't like where this country is headed. Left or right has nothing to do with self-respect or personal responsibility, its ok to be either one in my book. The truth is, I am both at times, as opposed to yourself, which is always right.

I want to see our government stepping up to the plate to protect the privacy and freedoms of its citizens. Fix the real problems in our country. They aren't doing it. All there is is partisan infighting.

"I think people have an obligation to support themselves and their families."

Well, me too. It ain't gonna happen though. There are many truly needy people in this country. We need to weed out the greedy ones, not cut the support. We send millions of dollars of support to every other country in the world for needy people, why not here? Many are people that have paid their taxes every year, but are falling on hard times.

"I don't think the government should be stepping in our lives trying to solve every social woe you may come across."

I sort of agree, but I don't consider privacy and freedom to be a social woe. Thats something they should step into, especially now that we are a global village.

I didn't say Bush was a big part of my problem, I said "Maybe the video is a little far fetched right now, but if our government could do it, they would - especially the Bush Administration." I think its a true statement. This president is far from moderate in anything he does, so this is more likely to happen under his leadership. I don't think Clinton would have done it because he was more moderate (and a bit preoccupied).

I'm not blaming Bush for this. These problems did exist for years, but now we have the technical capability to go too far and have already. Clinton never addressed the problems, so Bush has to fix it, in a moderate way so left and right can meet in the middle. He doesn't spend enough time or money addressing the problems in our country. Our personal freedoms are at risk.

I want to see our government, both parties, find a common ground and get back to work.

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common ground

by jdclyde In reply to I'm implying that you are ...

First, "The truth is, I am both at times, as opposed to yourself, which is always right."

Didn't say I was "right". I am CORRECT, not right. (I love that)

Oh ok, I will be almost serious for a minute or two. I have voted for Democrats and Independents as well as Republicans. I think the straight ticket voting option should be removed as it has no place in a positive political election.

Clinton, "the first black president" had the two terms to "fix" the things wrong with this country. He didn't. He wouldn't even go to Rwanda until it was over because it was an election year. Then he when down there, landed and made a quick speach and then hopped back on his plane and left. Never even left the airport. He was more concerned with doing what was "popular" than doing what he thought was the "correct" thing to do. Remember, if popular thought was all that matters, Blacks and women would still not be able to vote.

So Clinton isn't Moderate, he is populist.

I do not listen to people like RUSH because he IS hard core right.

I will listen to both (sometimes even the third) side of an issue and then make a decision.

Had you actually READ my whole post you would have seen where I DO support people going through a hard time. If you lose a job, how long does that allow you to not get another? Job is gone? May have to move to where the jobs are or get into another field.

I believe ALL mothers should take the first two years off to raise their kids. They need mom there more than the second paycheck. If the father split then there is the ADC to help. After that two years the free ride should come to an end and (like the rest of us) you have to start earning your own keep. Money tight? I have been there. Raised a family of four working for $7.50 and anything else I could get on the side. So the sympathy train just doesn't carry too much weight.

As for government, yes it should be protecting us and removing obsticals from our way so we can prosper. I don't believe that the Republicans are planning on selling confidential information any more than the Democrats are.

Guess we just see things differently. As long as you have reasons for how you feel and vote it is acceptable to vote anyway you wish. It is the people that are too busy watching reality TV and couldn't even tell you who the Vice-Precident is that votes Democrat because they are the party with the handouts that are a disgrace.

Well, I don't think either of us will convert the other and yes from your previous posts you have shown yourself to be as far left as I am right.

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Geez, I always thought I would convert you

by AV . In reply to common ground

Seriously though, its ok with me to see things differently. Sometimes when we have "common ground" its kinda scary.

You actually said some lefty kind of comments in your post. Theres hope for you yet!

You don't listen to RUSH? Good. I don't listen to Air America either. I do agree with you that mothers should be allowed 2 years off to raise their kids. Their kids need them.

PS, I think that Clinton disgraced the White House. He was a man in the right place at the right time because the economy was booming, but morally he was bankrupt.

Sometimes we can have common ground and even if we can't, we can agree to disagree.

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Teaching this old dog new tricks

by jdclyde In reply to common ground

just doesn't work well as my soon to be ex-wife found out. (in case you missed my advice request post)

Just too set in my ways I guess.

I ask myself how someone can not see something so obvious, and then I step back and realize people are saying the same thing about me. (just with worse grammar and more colorful verbs, lol!)

Perception is a funny animal. I shake my head when friends relate old stories and I have to ask myself if I remember it differently because I was drunk or they were? (hard to keep it all straight after a while).

I have daily e-mail chats with my wacked out lefty aunt from New York (my fav Aunt) and we discuss all the latest issues. Really helps give me other views to concider as she comes in contact with many guests to our country in her line of work and travels a lot too. (yes, she is a raving loon by now! lol)

I have made her see many issues from ways she had never concidered, and I always get that balance of what the media is saying vs what real people are saying.

Best of luck!

Question, what was lefty that I said? I would be more careful in the future if I knew what it was.

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Old dog, new tricks

by AV . In reply to common ground

I wasn't able to respond to your last post because "Max message level has been reached."

Here are my reasons why you are a lefty:

"Didn't say I was "right". I am CORRECT, not right. (I love that)."

Spoken like a true lefty.

"Oh ok, I will be almost serious for a minute or two. I have voted for Democrats and Independents as well as Republicans. I think the straight ticket voting option should be removed as it has no place in a positive political election."

OMG!

"I will listen to both (sometimes even the third) side of an issue and then make a decision"

You're not allowed to do that if you're a right winger.

Just some thoughts from someone that knows nothing about you except what you post.

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Almost scared the crap...

by Gunnar Klevedal In reply to Check this out. (talk abo ...

In Sweden

As far as I know, when they get hold of your IP-dress, they can go to your ISP.
If the ISP deems it reasonable, he will give them your full name and address, date of birth, phone number and so forth.

There is a law against this in Sweden, Personuppgiftslagen, and a special authority, Datainspektionen. I doubt if they can prevent it.

There is some work going on in the European Nations too.

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