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  • #2175715

    Daylight Savings Time – Why?

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    by montgomery gator ·

    There is a proposal to extend Daylight Savings Time by 2 months in the United States.

    http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/04/07/daylight.saving.ap/index.html

    The article included the quote “The more daylight we have, the less electricity we use”. However, DST does not increase the amount of daylight. Just because the clock was adjusted 1 hour does not cause the total amount of time with daylight. The sun may set an hour later (according to the clock), but it also rises an hour later too, resulting in the same amount of daylight.

    Also, if DST is such a good idea, why not make it year round? The “extra” hour of daylight for the evening commute could be used in winter even more. Changing the clock so the sun sets at 8 PM instead of 7 PM in the summer does not help the evening commute. Changing the clock so the sun sets at 6 PM instead of 5 PM does help in the winter, so the evening commute is during daylight. So, if it is a good idea, then have it year round. I would rather have one time, than keep on adjusting it twice a year.

    Also, if DST is extended another 2 months, I would think an update would need to be provided by Windows so that Windows OS computers would know when to adjust the clocks in March and November, instead of April and October. This will provide another headache for IT people to deal with. If DST is just made year round, then the automatic adjustment in Windows could be turned off before the time Windows has it scheduled.

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    • #3234074

      The real answer is

      by dc_guy ·

      In reply to Daylight Savings Time – Why?

      “Because we’ve always done it that way.”

      As Isaac Asimov put it, if the government issued an edict saying that every citizen must arise an hour earlier for the next eight months, the American people would march on Washington in a solid bloc and start tossing legislators into the Potomac until the majority started voting the other way. But instead, they deputized a stupid, lying CLOCK to tell us the same thing, and up we get like good little boys and girls. We won’t obey people, but we trust technology. That, friends, is what’s wrong with us!

      The only rationale with a trace of validity is that people are more tired on the trip home so the extra light helps them avoid accidents. Well okay, that explains DST in the spring and fall. But why summer? It should be in effect in the frelling WINTER, when the sun sets really early!

      I don’t think they count the number of accidents people have, standing on tiptoe on rickety office chairs, trying to reach every clock in the building twice a year. Or the number of people who’ve been beaten up for arriving an hour early or an hour late at an important event. Or the number of people who’ve been beaten up for scheduling an important event on the Monday after the time change.

      I really hate not being able to see my garden in the morning before I leave for work. Puts me in a rotten mood for the entire day, making it more likely I’ll have an Industrial Accident.

      And who wants to take their date out on a pleasant summer evening and try to steal a kiss — in broad daylight?

      Daylight Saving Time should be outlawed. If America were that desperate to save energy, we’d all be encouraged to telecommute.

      • #3234057

        Agreed

        by montgomery gator ·

        In reply to The real answer is

        Especially when you said “It should be in effect in the frelling WINTER, when the sun sets really early!” That makes a lot more sense than having it during the summer.

    • #3234070

      depends on where you live

      by gralfus ·

      In reply to Daylight Savings Time – Why?

      In the north (Washington), the effect is more dramatic. For example, the sky stays fairly lit until around 10pm in the summer, so our light hours are extended compared with the southern states. DST only adjusts us a little more in one direction to try to take advantage of the lit hours.

      Extending it seems rather silly to me, since the light starts dropping off noticably towards winter. It is so rainy here usually that the lights are on anyway during the day, so I think someone didn’t think this proposal through.

    • #3234042

      Can’t remember where I read it…..

      by cp7212 ·

      In reply to Daylight Savings Time – Why?

      I probably read this in Discover or some science mag. I read that if we don’t have DST, we will lose something like 8 seconds a year and then there was some formula that we would lose a year by year XXXX. This was based on the Roman calendar. I’m not doing the math. If you’re that curious and bored, you do it.

      I figure I won’t be alive to see it, so it doesn’t matter to me. I just think some people have way too much time on their hands. No pun intended.

      • #3233974

        Leap year

        by bob in calgary ·

        In reply to Can’t remember where I read it…..

        That’s why there is a leap year every 4 years It has nothing to do with DST. I might be wrong but i think there is also a leap second every once in a while.

    • #3234034

      2 month extension is silly to me..

      by tomsal ·

      In reply to Daylight Savings Time – Why?

      Well the idea of it saving electricity is a stupid reason for DST if you ask me. Heck if that’s all it was about the government is being deceived bigtime. I know folks who leave TVs and lights on in their house even its a bright sunny day outside. My girlfriend always leaves her light on in the kitchen when we go out, even if its during the day.

      And since the clock doesn’t adjust to the sun, also because where you are on the planet you get a different amount of daylight — the 2 month extension is simply stupid.

      However you are wrong, if we didn’t set the clock back we would in fact have less hours of daylight that are for lack of better term “useable”. Because true the sunrise is earlier but if we never set the clocks back we would have less daylight hours to enjoy when we got home from work.

      I really don’t care all that much how sunny and beautiful its out if I’m stuck in the office all day long, its how it is outside on my free time that I care about.

      • #3340182

        Then why not year round?

        by montgomery gator ·

        In reply to 2 month extension is silly to me..

        TomSal said: “I really don’t care all that much how sunny and beautiful its out if I’m stuck in the office all day long, its how it is outside on my free time that I care about.”

        Therefore, if it is a good thing in the summer, than why not year round? Some of us might want to have an hour left of sunlight after work on a warm sunny day in the winter, also, instead of it being dark when we get out of the office. I prefer a 50-60 F day in the winter over a 100 F day in the summer. Some times, where I live, it even gets up into the 70s F in the middle of winter.

        • #3340016

          Here it wouldn’t work that way though…

          by tomsal ·

          In reply to Then why not year round?

          That’s the whole point though. There is a point to DST but I just think saving electricity is stupid reason for it. However there is value to the practice.

          I think you are over simplifying it thinking well just make it one year “back” all year round that way you’ll get more light in the Winter too. But you won’t. Because the seasons (aka “mother nature”) don’t work that neatly to our clocks.

          Hmmm…let me a see an easier way to explain this…up here in the North East USA — because of the Earth’s orbit (not because we humans set our clocks differently) there is more hours of sunlight during the day in the summer time because of the Earth’s orbit. There is LESS hours of sunlight during the winter months because of the earth’s orbit *NOT* because we set our clocks that way.

          So in other words, the setting the clock back in summer saves us more time to enjoy the sunlight after work hours. Yet if you allowed the same practice in the winter the effect would be MUCH less dramatic (it would still be relatively dark or getting dark by the time I got home from work in other words).

        • #3339977

          But year round would work in much of the country

          by montgomery gator ·

          In reply to Here it wouldn’t work that way though…

          I noted that during the Winter Solstice, the sun set at 4:45 PM where I live (Montgomery, AL). If we were on DST, the time would be 5:45 PM, and most people (getting off work 4:30 – 5 PM) around here would be able to drive home while it was still light if we were on DST during the Winter Solstice. During the Summer Solstice, sun sets about 8 PM DST, so it makes no difference for the evening commute. I am well aware how the seasons work with the tilt of the Earth, and the effect is more drastic the closer you get to the poles. But there are large parts of the USA where year long DST would enable evening commutes before sunset, and still have daylight during morning commutes.

    • #3234008

      Answer to why…

      by jessie ·

      In reply to Daylight Savings Time – Why?

      If you actually care, and like to read, here’s a good site that answers the question of who/what/when/where/why? http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/index.html

      It was, a little bit, more than I ever really wanted to know about the whole thing.

      As a parent, I find DST to be a bit of a pain in the butt… my 2 year old can’t read the clock yet and he’s up at 5:30 standard time most mornings… little twerp!!! I should beat him and tie him to the bed… or just get up with him and blearily watch Blue’s Clues at 5:30 in the morning. He is awfully cute dancing along with Blue and Steve. I hate Joe.

      • #3340181

        Sounds like DST would be easier for you

        by montgomery gator ·

        In reply to Answer to why…

        If your child is up at 5:30 DST, then he would be up at 6:30 standard time, giving you an extra hour of sleep, assuming he does not adjust his body clock to the change to DST.

        Also, thanks for the link. However, I still think that DST would be just as useful the whole year round, instead of changing clocks twice a year. It is more helpful in winter, so 5 PM commutes would not be in the dark.

        • #3340032

          School children

          by bhunsinger ·

          In reply to Sounds like DST would be easier for you

          The problem is children, especially in cities, having to wait in the dark to go to school

        • #3340007

          Cut that sentence in half.

          by jessie ·

          In reply to School children

          “The problem is children, especially in cities.”

          That’s where it should have ended 🙂

      • #3340146

        Could be worse

        by bfilmfan ·

        In reply to Answer to why…

        Could be Barney or those Teletubbies, whom I am firmly convinced is the British reply for having to know we unleashed David Hasselhoff’s music on the world.

        Watch out Canada, I heard they finally discovered William Shatner’s album!

    • #3233946

      70’s Enrgy Crisis and Nixon

      by thechas ·

      In reply to Daylight Savings Time – Why?

      The last time we went to year round DST was in the mid 70’s under the Nixon administration.

      While still a controversy in itself, here is where I understand the potential energy savings comes from:

      The primary energy savings in extended DST is not from people using any less energy. It comes from the change in the peak demand for electricity.

      In the late fall and early spring, there is an increase in electricity demand at dusk. Offices and factories are still running at normal operation. Then home and street lights come on.
      If the spike in demand is large enough, low efficiency “peaking” power generators are brought on line to cover the demand.

      When you extend DST, you level off the peak in demand and keep the peaking plants off line.

      The secondary savings comes from the US lifestyle. More people are active in the afternoon and evening than in the morning. So, the later it gets dark, the later lights are turned on.

      As to why not year round DST?

      First, it would just be too convenient to not have to change 20 clocks twice a year.

      Secondly, near the Winter Solstice, dusk comes so early that demand would still cause a spike at dusk. At some latitudes, the spike under DST might actually be larger than the spike under standard time.

      The only real winner of the switch to DST is the outdoor recreation industry.

      Chas

    • #3233880

      Reaon here..

      by louk ·

      In reply to Daylight Savings Time – Why?

      In Scotland where we are pretty far North it has been calculated that by changing the clocks back one hour for winter it saves the lives of around 10 people every year. These fatalities would normally be children who would otherwise have to walk to school in the dark in the morning if the clocks didn’t change. Seems like a fairly decent argument to me. Apart from that it’s a pain in the rear.

      Lou

      • #3340170

        Best reason I’ve heard so far.

        by jessie ·

        In reply to Reaon here..

        by FAR!

      • #3340136

        The argument futher South

        by neilb@uk ·

        In reply to Reaon here..

        is the reverse! It’s generally considered that kids are more likely to be alert first thing in the morning and so would be better walking to school in the dark and home in the light as this would save lives. I suspect everyone has their statistics.

        However as the little bastarts all get driven to school in Mummy’s Range Rover, it doesn’t matter any more.

        It was originally introduced as a wartime measure in 1916! Me? I’d rather have UTC/GMT all year round. Nice and easy to remember and wouldn’t make any real difference. I’d miss the two little doses of jet-lag every year. NOT!

        Neil

    • #3340095

      Life and 10,000 more

      by ippirate ·

      In reply to Daylight Savings Time – Why?

      The arguments toward increasing the safety of travel, whether it be for children walking to school in Scotland or whether it be folks making the daily commute is one thing and I can respect that, support it as well. However, I think the thing that is ignorant in it is the simplistic statement of the amount of oil saved. 10,000 barrels daily or 3.65 million annually of a total 20 million daily or 7.3 billion annually. My take on that is it is just another arbitrary, “look, we’re green!”, slight of hand on the part of the U.S. government. Tripe. If the government was really interested in conserving energy and driving a green culture they’d tax the heck out of 6, 10, 15 mile to the gallon SUV’s, govern their own cars, drop the speed limit back to 55 and institute fines that actually served as a deterent rather than just the price of doing as you dang well please.

      DST? I’d love to see it go further for a lot of reasons but “conservationism” is not one of them.

    • #3340068

      Saving Daylight Contest

      by maxwell edison ·

      In reply to Daylight Savings Time – Why?

      The Eldorado Daily Journal asked its readers to save daylight during Daylight Savings Time, and has offered a prize for the person who saves the most.

      The rules are simple:

      “Beginning with the first day of Daylight Savings Time, those entering the contest must begin saving daylight. Those who save the most daylight by midnight of the last day of Daylight Savings Time will be awarded a prize.”

      “Only pure daylight is allowed. No pre-dawn light or twilight will be accepted. Daylight on cloudy days is allowable. Moonlight is strictly prohibited and any of it mixed with daylight will bring immediate disqualification.”

      “Contestants are instructed to save their accumulated daylight in any container they wish, then bring the container to the Daily Journal office at the end of DST ? or when they think they have saved enough daylight to win.”

      • #3340025

        hmmm

        by bhunsinger ·

        In reply to Saving Daylight Contest

        soalr cell and battery pack, Now where did I put it. What is the prize?

      • #3339930

        Saving daylight

        by craig herberg ·

        In reply to Saving Daylight Contest

        I put my stash in a daylight truck. Hopefully, it will arrive in Eldorado before dawn, so the people don’t oversleep!

      • #3340896

        I have a very large mirror

        by neilb@uk ·

        In reply to Saving Daylight Contest

        and I’m focusing it on the Sun so I’m storing all of my daylight there. OK, so you can’t tell which is mine and which is new but is that MY fault?

    • #3340368

      A little too much paperwork

      by computer dude ·

      In reply to Daylight Savings Time – Why?

      I read somewhere that DST is a holdover from WW1. It was enacted for some reason to aid in the war effort. So since it was only a temporary war measure it should be repealed any time now. Just takes government types a little while to get around to it. They’re waiting for the paperwork to go through.

      • #3340345

        This story may be apocryphal, but…

        by montgomery gator ·

        In reply to A little too much paperwork

        ..I heard somewhere that the old USSR was stuck on permanent DST. They switched to DST during WWII, and lost the paperwork to switch back (or the Communists refused to admit a mistake, more likely, especially considering that Stalin was in charge at the time) once the war was over, and remained on year-round DST until the USSR collapsed.

    • #3340897

      I think that there’s something here for EVERYONE!

      by neilb@uk ·

      In reply to Daylight Savings Time – Why?

      True story. Darwin Awards 1999

      The switch away from daylight savings time caused consternation among terrorist groups this year. At precisely 5:30 Israel time on Sunday, two coordinated car bombs exploded in two different cities, killing three terrorists who were transporting the bombs.

      It was initially believed that the devices had been detonated prematurely by klutzy amateurs. A closer look revealed the truth behind the untimely explosions. Three days before, Israel had made a premature switch from daylight savings time to standard time in order to accommodate a week of Slihot, involving pre- sunrise prayers. Palestinians refused to “live on Zionist time.” Two weeks of scheduling havoc ensued.

      The bombs had been prepared in a Palestine-controlled area, and set on Daylight Savings time. The confused drivers had already switched to standard time. As a result, the cars were still enroute when the explosives detonated, delivering to the terrorists their well-deserved demise.

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