General discussion


Do other countries have hyphenated citizens?

By jdclyde ·
I have been seeing this for a long time now, and it always amazes me the things people will do or say to separate themselves from the whole.

Here in the US, we have African-American, Chinese-American, Irish-American, German-American, Armenian-American and Japanese-American and a many more I am sure. I was surprised to find a wiki page dealing with this as well, almost as if they knew I was going to make this post.

As this is a global community, does anyone see this anywhere else, or is it unique to the US?

I have my own ideas on this, but will refrain for a bit so as not to lead the discussion.

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Sorry, JD. Granholm is not to blame for Michigan's high unemployment.

by TechExec2 In reply to I think you are going to ...

Sorry, JD, wrong again (I know you hate that )! Once again, blaming Granholm (and Democrats) is not supported by the facts. You don't have to be a Democrat partisan to know this. I'm not. Republicans are not the solution either.


Unemployment in Michigan was 3.2% in March 2000 and rose to 6.6% by July 2002, four months before Granholm (D) was elected as Governor (3)! The governor running things during that period (19** to 2002) was John Engler, a Republican (1). Should John Engler (R) be blamed?

The historical lowest unemployment rate in Michigan was in Mar. 2000 at 3.2% (5). Should John Engler (R) be given credit?

The historical highest unemployment rate in Michigan was in Nov. 1982 at 16.9% (5). The governor was William Milliken (Republican) from 1969 to 1982 (1). Should William Milliken (R) be blamed?

In Michigan, Democrat governors have been in office for only 12 of the last 44 years (1). Republican governors have run things for 32 of the last 44 years (1). Should Republicans be blamed?


I don't claim to have all the answers. But, here's what I think:

Michigan is (was?) a manufacturing state, right? I suggest that it is FEDERAL economic policies that drive manufacturing offshore that are to blame. And, it is FEDERAL economic policies that have helped Toyota, Honda, and Nissan beat GM and Ford into the ground. Of course, problems inside GM and Ford helped.

In the entire USA: "During the January 2003 through December 2005 period, 3.8 million workers were displaced from jobs they had held for at least 3 years." (6) During this period, the entire federal government was under the control of the Republicans. Should Republicans be blamed?


I don't think it is correct to blame Republicans or Democrats for Michigan's current unemployment problems. Democrats should not drink the partisan Democrat KoolAid. Republicans should not drink the partisan Republican KoolAid (in bold, just for you). The sooner both sides realize this, the sooner we can start fixing our many and growing problems.

P.S. You're still my buddy, even though you're wrong! B-)


(1) Michigan Governors, 1835 to Present,1607,7-160-15481_20826_20829-54132--,00.html

(2) Bio - Jennifer M. Granholm,1607,7-168--57920--,00.html

(3) Michigan Unemployment Insurance At a Glance

(4) Michigan State Profile (taken from 2006 Alamanac of American Politics)

(5) U.S. Dept of Labor, Unemployment Highs/Lows by State

(6) Displaced workers, 2003-05: reason for job loss (USA DOL BLS)


From (4):

"From 1993 up through October 2000, Michigan's unemployment rate was lower than the nation's in almost every month. Then, with the national recession, unemployment shot up above the national average, as might be expected in a manufacturing state. But the national recovery that took hold in 2003 did not seem to take hold in Michigan. Unemployment averaged 5.3% in 2001 and 6.2% in 2002, about 0.5% above the national average--not alarming for a recessionary period. But Michigan's unemployment was 7.3% in 2003 and 6.8% in 2004--about 1.3% above the national average; Michigan was the only state to lose jobs in 2004. In December 2004 Michigan unemployment spiked to 7.3%, 1.9% above the national average and the third-highest in the nation"

edited: sue me

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Humans and Race

by onbliss In reply to Racism

Race, ethnicity, groupism or whatever is and will be part of human nature. Nations are boundaries created by humans, and hence identification and pride needs to be reinforced (brainwashed) more than the identification of natural traits or historical bondings.

Humans of all colors - VIBGYOR+WB can not escape their natural tendencies and traits. As civilization and societies mature we can only aim to train ourselves to be not hateful or discriminaters.

One reason why a heterogenous society keeps changing its national boundaries in shape and size through out the history.

One of the ways heterogenous groups will co-exist peacefully is if they have a strong common tie in the past - language, culture, anscestors, religion etc. Another way is brute force. And the third way would be knowledge and awareness of how we are all the same yet different and we have to co-exist this planet.

When the external influencing factors are removed, then humans start their alignments into comfort groups.

ps:Same argument holds good to religions.

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You made me think

by NickNielsen In reply to Humans and Race

Then I realized that VIBGYOR was ROYGBIV backwards.

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Not through out the world

by onbliss In reply to Do other countries have h ...

I guess the practice is prevelant more in the developed western countries than elsewhere.

Just as James alluded, it is as a result of the influx of people from former colonies and other immigrations.

In South East Asia, people associate more to their clan, tribe, ethnic roots when it comes to domestic issues. When it comes to the international issues, then they associate with their country. But it depends on different groups, their status in society and other factors.

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Not generally split loyalties

by dsm In reply to Do other countries have h ...

When I lived in Europe for 13-14 years, there was almost none of that. Only with the advent of US-style PC garbage in the UK did that begin to crop up slightly in England. It is still very rare on the continent. We actually have very little of that in Canada, which is surprising given the general level of PC enforced consciousness up here; though perhaps there is more in Quebec, but nobody outside of Quebec pays any attention to them, anyway. You see it every now and then in Canada, but not as much as it dominates the US.
That it dominates the US consciousness is surprising given Teddy Roosevelt's strong opinion on that matter back around the turn of the previous century, when he noted, more or less, that you can have one country and and one set of loyalties, but not two. He did not have a very high opinion of that trend that was coming out at the beginning of the 20th century.
To my simple view, it is either that one has a distinct level of faith in their cultural home, or they have a relatively small opinion of themselves that they need to don another cloak of identity to help them feel larger or belong to a broader identity that better suits their personal needs.
My problem, having a couple of citizenships and having lived in a lot of places is that the only home I have is where my wife and children live. I suppose that makes me a national of whatever country we're living in at the time because there aren't enough hyphens for our family. Between us there are three countries of birth, five languages, and children living in four countries. At one point or another, hyphens are meaningless, eh?

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As far as I am concerned

by jdclyde In reply to Not generally split loyal ...

ALL use of hyphens for this is meaningless.

What race an I? Human race.

What country do I live in? USA.

That makes me an American.

The country some of my past relatives may or may not have come from is not relevent, any more than every colored person HAS to have been dragged out of Africa.

I see it as a way for people to control other people. If you can create a common enemy, it is easier to gather power for yourself. go ask Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton about that one.

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I'm a native American

by RFink In reply to As far as I am concerned

I was born in Wisconsin.

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poly-glot of hypens

by lmayeda In reply to As far as I am concerned

In Hawaii, the first (white) foreignors to arrive were called Haoles. When the Hawaiians married Haoles and had kids, the kids were happa (half) haole. Then the Chinese, Japanese, Filipinos, samoans, etc arrived and we had Chinese-Hawaiians, Japanese-Filipinos. By now we are a poly-glot of Hawaiian-Chinese-portuguese-spanish-german ...etc. Too-many hypens to list. But what's funny is that whenever any of us go to the "mainland" or overseas ... we're all first "Hawaiians" regardless of whether we have an ounce of Hawaiian blood in us ... and then we're all Americans too. I think hyphens exist because people are proud of their differences and I see nothing wrong with that.

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There are some special cases

by jdclyde In reply to poly-glot of hypens

Hawaiians and Alaskans all seem to stand out of the main group. The way of life is so different that they just are seen that way. I have never heard of them refered to as a Hawaiian-American though.

Some would do this out of pride, I think most are just sheep following dishonest people that WANT there to be divisions between groups.

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I am !!

by tinareidrowe In reply to There are some special ca ...

Canadian, I live in NZ and have gone to a harrasment course ut on by my work, apparently it seems because I do not classify myself as a kiwi-Canadian I am a bit odd. But I am only Canadian. I live here for now, but not for-ever. I am a hienz 57, a mixture of my fore-fathers. I am only and just 100% Canadian no matter where I go. I was the only person in 25 that did not hyphenate my cultural background The only time I use a hyphen is when I say North-American. And that is when I hear kiwi's diss Yanks :-) Just to make them think a bit more of what they say.

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