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Do undegraduates with experience stand a chance to get hired?

By c_djraj ·
I was just wondrin to hear comments from the group based from their experiences and locales if a person who happens to be an undergraduate but with experience stands a chance in the IT industry compared to newly Grads and degree holder?

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Agree with red_wolf

by ebreder In reply to Sediking best reasoning.. ...

I agree with red_wolf, having experience is definitely the most important thing to have. I have recently attained my MCSE, only after being in the industry for about 4 and a half years. I have seen plenty of people who would be termed as "paper MCSE's" and just as many "degreed professionals", neither of which have a clue as to what they are doing. So how could it possibly be drawn as a logical conclusion that either the certification or the degree should win out over the hard won experience earned by doing "your time in the trenches"?

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I agree red_wolf

by brian In reply to Sediking best reasoning.. ...

20 years in the game, and the last official training I had was from Microsoft on DOS 5. There were no specific courses back then, so they came in direct and spread the gospel. Since then I have learned to survive in the real world providing real solutions, proven and tested. And the ability to get to the heart of most problems.

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Agree w/"red_wolf

by GaijinIT In reply to Sediking best reasoning.. ...

I have hired and worked with both graduates and non-graduates, and see no difference in the levels of ignorance or skill in either category (but definitely the grads score higher in the arrogance and playing politics categories), it all comes down to the individual, and I personally lean to the guy who made it on his own - decided what field he wanted to work in, got his certs (or just experience and a proven track record), and really wants to do the job.

WTF does 'Philosophy 101" have to do with IT? There is so much time wasted in getting a 'generally well-rounded education' attending courses you will never use again and partying hearty instead of working in your field.

If I need my IT people to make formal presentations, then I should make note of their abilities in that direction either in the hiring interview with some extra questions or by observing their documentation and work habits.


Not all IT people may be suitable for standing up in the boardroom making a presentation, but having the college degree doesn't guarantee such talent either. I have seen poor penmanship, spelling and stage fright from people with degrees just as much as from the 'uneducated'.

The only differences I have observed is that usually the college grads are quicker to come up with smokescreens such as "I'm too busy to worry about things like that, I leave it up to my secretary". Well, la dee da!

Making visual and oral presentations is a skill that can be learned after someone is hired if he/she is going to need it.

Give me the hard-working self-achiever who loves his work, not the ones who feel the world owes them a favor for gracing it with their divine presence.

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Thank You

by gjanes In reply to Sediking best reasoning.. ...

24 years and yet so much more to give. If I had wasted the 1st 4 years on paper I couldn't afford tonight's MGD.

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MCSE HAHAHA!

by kphillips In reply to Sediking best reasoning.. ...

MCSE...=MUST CONSULT SOMEONE EXPERIENCED..I LOVE THAT ONE...
KEEP IT UP!

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The last two posts talk about a degree but

by imit In reply to You are right!

In the last two posts the authors discuss the need for a degree in order to be well rounded and express yourself well to management, however the lack of proper grammer and spelling would make it impossible to make a professional presentation. If both of these indiviuals worked in my organization I would never allow them to present anything to management.

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Ironic

by Crake In reply to The last two posts talk a ...

How ironic, imit. You wrote, "...however the lack of proper /grammer/ and spelling."

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I've also been in this position

by tigertim In reply to The last two posts talk a ...

I have a diploma and not a degree and many years of experience. I've worked with people who have degrees. Some are very good and others are not.

In a previous job, the management rehired a former employee solely on the basis of his computer science degree. He was useless. Even the other degree holders in the company couldn't fathom his qualifications. He would frequently ask me how to do programming in C as well as other mundane tasks.

On one occasion he disabled the company's firewall and virus scanner so he could download a file from the net. The result: a virus hit our LAN and we were down for two days while the IT department and I repaired the damage.

When I was employed by a government department, I frequently "held the hands" of fresh undergraduates who hadn't a clue of what to do. Ironically, they looked down on me and my co-workers because they had degrees, while we only had diplomas + experience.

To be fair, my colleagues who have degrees have stated that a having a degree does not necessarily mean a smarter or better employee. It's basically the individual.

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Grammar "ain't" answering the original question

by eriksblues In reply to The last two posts talk a ...

Egotistical comments directed at others ... how considerate and thoughtful ... when all someone asked was a degree or experience. This forum is NOT preparation for a PHD ... Get real. Went to college ... been there, done that, and it had nothing to do with computers. Learned because I wanted to, needed to and did it by "hands on" ... ANY employment opportunity becomes what the individual can or cannot make of it. HR pays more for degrees, yet management makes exceptions and rewards experience. Research the companies, personnel profiles, histories and follow your own path! Make a decision and the go for it!

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RE: The last two posts talk about a degree but

by pickleman In reply to The last two posts talk a ...

> however the lack of proper grammer and spelling
> If both of these indiviuals worked in my
> organization I would never allow them to
> present anything to management.

What orgranization would that be, "grammer" boy?

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