IT Employment

General discussion

Locked

Do undegraduates with experience stand a chance to get hired?

By c_djraj ·
I was just wondrin to hear comments from the group based from their experiences and locales if a person who happens to be an undergraduate but with experience stands a chance in the IT industry compared to newly Grads and degree holder?

This conversation is currently closed to new comments.

Thread display: Collapse - | Expand +

All Comments

Collapse -

Well rounded?

by silari In reply to Bovine Excrement

Many, many self-made millionaires do not have degrees. Why? Being consistent with what a group of individuals believes you should know and think awards the degree. Self-made millionaires can think out of the box. Degreed individuals, think one way -- even with a broad knowledge base, innovation in thinking makes a difference.

So to wholesale say degrees make a difference is wrong. To say that individuals that know how to be successful will probably have a degree is correct. You can also argue the point that a degree has little to do with success. I have seen many people with degrees that have a difficultly deciding which way to roll out of bed.

So the bottom line is success is determined by the individual not on level of education or certifications (remember the saying good students learn in spite of the teacher). Continuing education and certifications would be an attribute of a successful person (read good employee).

Collapse -

Well rounded?

by silari In reply to Bovine Excrement

Many, many self-made millionaires do not have degrees. Why? Being consistent with what a group of individuals believes you should know and think awards the degree. Self-made millionaires can think out of the box. Degreed individuals, think one way -- even with a broad knowledge base, innovation in thinking makes a difference.

So to wholesale say degrees make a difference is wrong. To say that individuals that know how to be successful will probably have a degree is correct. You can also argue the point that a degree has little to do with success. I have seen many people with degrees that have a difficultly deciding which way to roll out of bed.

So the bottom line is success is determined by the individual not on level of education or certifications (remember the saying good students learn in spite of the teacher). Continuing education and certifications would be an attribute of a successful person (read good employee).

Collapse -

Thank You

by BarryStacy441 In reply to Bovine Excrement

I totally agree with you.
"You MUST look at the individual instead of being lazy and only looking at a piece of paper."

I was a welder for 19 years until a corporate buy out eliminated my job. I went to a local community college and loaded up on all the IT courses but never got back to finish my Associates.
I also agree with the person who posted about "luck" playing a role. I missed out on some jobs because I didn't have the sheepskin. I am in a job now that I love.

You need to find a person during the hiring process who is not afraid to tell you that they do not know how to do a specific task but is willing to do whatever it takes to learn. I was able to convey that during my interview and took an entry level job. I say communication skills and the "want" to learn is more important than the sheepskin.

Why was The Computer Guy from Saturday Night Live so funny? Because he was so (unfortunately) true to form.

Collapse -

Degree Envy

by jheath In reply to Bovine Excrement

I see this response a great deal from those who have not completed a degree or barely completed it. I gained training and ten years of experience in electronics from time in the military. When I applied for jobs in the civilian world, I was rejected for lack of a degree. I went back and got the degree and am now upping the ante with a Masters. The degree gets you in the door. I have four technicians and none have a degree. They were the only ones that applied for positions that needed to be filled. I have a new position open and I am looking heavily for a degree or certifications. I do not have the time to teach someone everything from how to ping and so forth. A degreed person does possess a well rounded education. They can do presentations and prepare documentation better than non-degreed that I have dealt with. I have been in both boats and the degree is the best choice if all criteria are met within the interview. Education, bearing, and experience are all important to assess. If you are looking only at a resume or application for hiring, then you are not hiring responsibly. We test perspective employees on network and technical knowledge as part of the interview process.

Collapse -

Getting the heat out

by Womble In reply to Degree Envy

Folk
There are a number of issues that need adressing
1/ the first problem in getting a job is to get past the Recruitment agency filters. When there are 400 applicants for 1 job, you need to ensure that you can passage through the initial filtering stage, an especially important point when going through career change. A good recruiter is able to account for experience but there is a large number out there who take the easy option of prequalifying for degrees
2/ the proportion of degree qualified people has grown from 2% of the population in 1970 to 30% now. Where people used to go to technical colleges, and night school to get technical quals, now it is expected that you go to university. This has resulted in a large portion of degree qualified people who are unable to find work without experience. Their alternative is to return to university and upgrade to a higher qualification is often resorted to.
3/Good managers are also able to manage this by trying for a well rounded team. By mixing and matching, you are able to increase your preformance significantly. When recruiting they generally look at 3 criteria
Can they do the job? Experience or Quals or a mix can prove this
Will they stick around to do it? It costs to recruit.
Will they fit into my team? This is the hardest to measure, and is usually based on if the manager believes the candidate has empathy with the team (Thats why you get teams of people who all seem similar, even if they come from different bacgrounds)
I hope that this illuminates the issue

Collapse -

Exactly!

by PKA In reply to Bovine Excrement

Forget the degree or cert. I'll hire good experience every time. The more rounded the better. Education? I'll train my own help if they demonstrate a willingness to learn.

Collapse -

A matter of opinion

by tux_vader In reply to degree is better

While I do agree that a College education should provide you a well-rounded education, any individual with initiative can get that and more without pursuing a degree. Just for the record, I do not have a degree, however, I have taken numerous college courses covering many different subjects from advanced English literature to organizational management. I've actually taken so many courses that I could complete my degree with six more classes.

In the time that I've taken courses, I've also been gaining experience by working. And although I've been in the IT field for the last 10 years, I've also held positions in marketing and operations management. I've learned about the industry I support from all aspects. So while someone else may have been toiling away in the business management class, I was gaining both experience and education at the same time.

Ultimately, I believe that it's up to each individual to determine the best path for them. Don't pursue a degree only because you think there may be a larger pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Because by the time you get to the end, there will be a larger pot at the end of someother rainbow. You see this mentality with technical certification: "What cert is going to make me the most money...and where's the nearest bootcamp?"

Collapse -

Agreed....

by comptech3 In reply to A matter of opinion

I turned wrenches for 15 years before I decided to make a career change. I take college courses part-time, but like you, I'm also getting experience on the job.

My major is management. The reason for this is that even if I don't become a manager, what I learn will increase my perspective of the big picture and give me soft skills that will transfer with me wherever I go. Another motivation is that my employer is a college and provides free tuition vouchers. I'd be stupid not to take advantage of them.

You are right. A degree should be pursued because it will benefit you in the big picture, not as a ticket to the biggest salary.

Collapse -

Well rounded in English?

by bwilson In reply to degree is better

Judging by your reply, I would guess that you missed English 101. I personally would not want to put this type of reply in front of an executive or a customer.

Collapse -

Barry please elaborate

by c_djraj In reply to Well rounded in English?

Barry please elaborate. What does English 101 got to do with this? Please address your answer directly to me at c_djraj@hotmail.com
Looking forward....Thanks a lot, Chris

Related Discussions

Related Forums