IT Employment

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Do undegraduates with experience stand a chance to get hired?

By c_djraj ·
I was just wondrin to hear comments from the group based from their experiences and locales if a person who happens to be an undergraduate but with experience stands a chance in the IT industry compared to newly Grads and degree holder?

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Basic Business Skills

by gario In reply to How small minded

I think it's the individual. As a hiring Manager, I have found graduates have more ability to work the basic business IT skills such as project management, budgeting, inventory, presentations etc., while my certified individuals not only man the network and machines, but act as consultants, and mentors to the entry level individuals (above). So again, I say it's really the hiring Manager that counts. It's a mix.

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I will take "hands on" over "degree" any day.

by kphillips In reply to How small minded

Simply put, anyone with reasonable brains can take a class and pass it. But put in "real life" the ones I see daily..these "text book junkies" are just not prepared.Sure they know what causes this and that...and how it works...but when the system is down and you have a multi-million dollar company loosing money and everyone's stress level is at high...just see how great that "degree" will help you...I have been currently 6 yrs. on this job and it is a factor of all past problems and solutions that keep me in the "know". I keep files on all troubleshooting problems in the past and you have to be a great diagnostian and know where to start first all the while you have co-workers calling your phone constantly asking you when the system will be up...and what are you doing to hurry it along...etc. And you cannot ever forget the simplest the other day...someone accidentally just unplugged the RJ-45 from the wall...connection went down on two isolated pc..and network printers...gee...I CAN SEE THAT "DEGREE" ON THE SERVER NOW...JUST LOOKING AT EVENT VIEWER...WASTING TIME...
I am not against getting a degree, but for me...I have all the skills and experience but I AM A MUTT...NO PAPERS...

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Agree 100% Ignorant statement

by bcgreaves In reply to How small minded

Of coures I do not have a paper stating "College Grad" which in my opinion is an accomplishment, BUT many of today's "College Grads" are frauds respectively. Having a degree proves that you have the ability to learn and be desciplined when it comes to some grads, but with others, that paper could have been received in many different ways ie: rich parents, fraudulently, online (by guess who? techs!), and a slew of different avenues. I for one was in the sales business and have developed quite a knack for dealing with others, public speaking, presentations and so forth. Now that I have an MCSE (whoopty freaking Do!), a CCNA, A+ cert, and a bunch of other crap is the only reason why I am in the position I'm in: Network Administrator. This is the same guy who has passed people like me over time and time again, but I have the last laugh now. $75 plus yearly, and I LOVE my job ! I learn something new every single day. Screw him....

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by cclef In reply to Better educated the more ...

The bottom line is experience. If you can demonstrate, or explain how your class/lab experience gave you a real life experience, and then translate to how that will enable you to perform on a day to day job, that will be a great positive. Unfortunately, a lot of employers are still looking for the degree to back up anything you have. If you are fortunate enough to get a face to face, and explain your life experience, then the degree may not weigh in as much. But still in these times, HR still looks for the degrees.

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Something else to consider

by alphastate In reply to Experience=Education

I have found that having a degree will open a lot more doors, ie., oportunities, than with experience alone. Consider things from the Human Resources point of view. Suppose they hire a guy who doesn't or can't live up to his claims. Then they have to fire him or find some way of getting rid of them, which is a can of worms in and of itself, and THEN they have to go through the whole search and hire process again. Lots of wasted time and money.

If a person has a degree, the probability that the individual, especially if he (or she) has good grades, knows what they are doing is greater. And even if they don't know, how fast can they learn? Hiring good qualified people is a crap shoot at best, and they just want to up the odds in their favor as much as possible.

But consider this, throughout my career, I have seen over and over and over guys get promoted who were way less qualified technically than their co-workers. Why? Because they knew how to schmooze. They played golf with the boss, went to the bosses parties, brown nosed, the whole bit. People with good social skills will almost always get ahead of the people who are very technically superior and who are absolute pricks to live with.

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My Experience Agrees

by a.d.e.p.t In reply to Experience=Education

The only training I have received equates with what professional schoold offer - no colllege, no university.

But my desire to keep learning and to undertake new projects and new skills has given me a reputation as an uncanny problem solver.

I am now sysadmin for a national organization, specializing in SMS2003 and BlackBerry handhelds (with experience in Win servers, Netware and Unix) - fields where the habitual MCSE hunters don't usually like to graze.

Willingness to keep learning is more appreciated of employers, I think, than an actual degree.

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by NickNielsen In reply to Better educated the more ...

You have got to be kidding. The ability to communicate _clearly_ is not automatically bestowed with a college degree. In fact, based on some of the work I've seem from many college graduates, I would sooner allow a high school student who paid attention in English class to write papers and give presentations.

It doesn't matter how many degrees they have if they can't speak without, uh, well, like, uh, you know or if they can't write without confusing nouns and verbs, their/there, or its/it's.

It's not about education or certification, it's about learning.

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Really ......

by dbristol In reply to Better educated the more ...

I've known "HONOR" students who couldn't articulate the time on their watch. And the most valulable employee I ever met never completed the 8th grade, but essentially ran the manufacturing/assembly department at Big Blue.

Degree, experience - it doesn't matter. Impress me with your knowledge, then show me what you can do.

THINK - Thomas J. Watson, Sr.

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Right on

by hanrahan99 In reply to Really ......

I could not have said it better!!!!!!!!

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by Ddissent In reply to Better educated the more ...

Well ... I must say that's a pretty bold assessment. So what you are saying is that someone who has proven that they can regurgitate information from texbook pages of our broken educational system can outperform someone who has been working in the field for as many years? How about I show you a Vet with NO degree and NO certification who has 10+ years experience in the IT field who could smoke your very best employee - especially at giving presentations in front of the suit squads?

Sure, a degree might make it through HR easier and get you paid more but for me? If you have a degree and no experience .... I'll give you a chance to earn the experience but please leave the 100% processed American Cheese Degree at the door. I need people who can recover a crashed server or network QUICKLY .... not people who can tell me how many bits are in a byte or if the socket packet pocket has an error to report.

So much for my penny 1/2

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