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education not required?!?!?!?!

By Jaqui ·
to have SENIOR positions in US Government, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY?!?!?!?
and THE WHITE HOUSE?!?!?!?

http://www.reason.com/0501/fe.ps.cut.shtml

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No Mainframe or Mini??????

by dafe2 In reply to silly...

Actually I'm one that never heard about the License trouble.

Tell you the truth we use Aliant for everything so I just thought Telus was kind of a 'joke' but still a big player.

Your right, I would expect a big player to have some kind of mini........even a VAX at the VERY least. Whoda thunk it?

Of course the may only have a corner store customer base too......LOL

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That's good

by Oz_Media In reply to silly...

I was wondering just how offended you may get at the blatant slams on Telus. :)

Anyhow, like I said, if you have associates inside,no credit or security checks needed. Just lik emost companies they headhunt certain skills too, if someone brings value to the table in their eye, they will close their eyes on the rest.

I'm certainly not the only one who's had a chance to get into Telus, they were digging around several companies I have worked for for all kinds of different people, regardless of education or criminal checks.

Over the last year or two, they have been unsuccessful most of the time, people know what to expect from them now and the paycheque isn't worth the headache, I'd say.

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OZ & Backgrounds - no no no

by dafe2 In reply to silly...

What you say is probably true (for you) BUT MOST companies & certainly high end ones will NOT hire someone with a 'shaky' backround. Even a bad credit rating will stop the process in many places not to mention someone with a criminal background. They'd risk their career by "closing their eyes" as you say. Common.

If Telus is out recruiting that kind of 'talent' as you say, then is Jaqui mistaken in her assertion that these guys are vigilant with background checks? I'm assuming she consults there & would know something about the internal processes?

If you do manage to talk your way in or forge your wa through - you won't stick arround long.................just as in this posts attached story.

I'm saying your situation is 'unique' (to say the least) It's NOT reflective of the real world only 'yours'.

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Actually it's more common than you let on

by Oz_Media In reply to silly...

If you look at Telus job postings, yes there are VERY stringent requirements at some levels, even the operators and customer service staff are stringently examined. However, as you know it's not a what you know but a WHO you know world.

I am certainly not unique in my offers by Telus at all, in fact I know a few long term switch programmers with access to very high security areas who were just given the job because they knew somebody or worked for a competitor. Telus has the practice of simply hiring everyone else's people, it simplifies the hiring proces for them. If you are with a competitor, they want you, no questions asked, you start Monday.

You walk in off the street and yes you go through HR, you so much as buy a Telus rep a beer and you're in though. I was offered work there long before I was ever qualified to work there myself, just because I happened to play darts with someone and bought him a drink. With thousands of local employees, even just a good word from someone will get you in and everyone seems to know SOMEone who works there.

Just like jobs working for the city, they are impossible to get by application and screening, but they'll hire anyone based on the word of mouth of a fellow union employee.

As for large companies, I have seen this from a global fortune 100 company that I have worked with, I have been employed by te CRTC with a record and a high school education. Just KNOWING someone works flawlessly in most cases I"ve found, regardless of how hard it is to get in the front door.

I think I Jaqui's case (fomr what I read) she wasn't looking for work there but was hired to work there, in which case I can agree with the security levels. If she knew ANYONE with SOME seniority in the union, she'd be in like flint though, that place is pretty easy to get hired at.

As for understanding how they operate, half of their staff don't know what the other half is doing, this is a BIG company spread throughout many offices in the province. There are senior account managers that don'tknow the people they are marketing against are actually price protected Telus Partners. They are actually selling businesses against their own business, ths costin gthem a LOT of money. That is just ONE of the hundreds of things that makes Telus such a poorly operated company, the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing.
There's no organization to implement a blanket hiring policy properly as the union is too tightly involved and will simply send someone there to work, and Telus has to find them a job somewhere.

So it's not really unique at all, I'm not privaleged, in fact it's very common. And it lays proof to the age old saying that "It's not what you know, it's who you know."

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nope don't have any ...

by Jaqui In reply to silly...

dealings with telus giving me money.
I do have a landline, which is a telus line but that's as a customer. ~l~

telus contracts out thier background checks, I have no idea how well performed they actually are.

I'm sure they have a mainframe or mini hiding somewhere, just used for routing the calls.
thier entire office is windows.
thier webservers are windows
thier billing is windows
and 99.9995% of thier techs would have a heart attack if they had to use a unix box.

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I wonder how good they are?

by dafe2 In reply to silly...

I've heard of people contracting out background checks.(More so after 9/11 of course). Kind of a little industry in it's own right.

At least they do them.

Allthough I'm an MS guy......I still expect to see either big Iron or UNIX used in core business processes of more mature Global Companies.

Maybe the just couldn't afford those paddle things they use for heart attack victims huh?

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Accrediation Bodies

by BFilmFan In reply to Doesn't anyone...

What I find hysterical is the U.S. Department of Education does not accredit educational institutions and/or programs. However, the Secretary of Education is required by law to publish a list of nationally recognized accrediting agencies that the Secretary determines to be reliable authorities as to the quality of education or training provided by the institutions of higher education and the higher education programs they accredit.

Since there is no law specifying an accrediation body truly is, anyone can set up an accrediation board for these diploma mills. The list of commonly accepted national bodies are avaialble here:

http://www.ed.gov/admins/finaid/accred/accreditation_pg9.html#Title%20IV%20Recognition

And does anyone recall that the CIO of the Homeland Security Agency had a diploma mill degree?

With the rise of distance learning, it is becoming more difficult to keep track of diploma mills.

Adding to the confusion are small private colleges. I've attended 2 technical colleges for additional training that were NOT accredited by the Commission on Colleges of the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools; but, were by the IEEE's Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology (ABET). Which leads to a fight over which accreditation makes a college really valuable on your resume.

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I'd have to wonder too....

by dafe2 In reply to education not required?!? ...

If they're not doing checks & verifying credentials....what's to say they aren't doing 'reliability' checks? These are a little more intense than standard background checks but require no more "effort".

There's more to a person than education & if this person was 'creating' a degree then....what else was she hiding?

What about a criminal, credit & work history? These all prove character & reliabilty & it only takes a phone call or a mouse click and even (most) businesses do them today. Talk about lazy.

Could have a bunch of 'nuts' in there.....Did I say that out loud? LOL

Wow.

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"Close enough for government work"

by Jessie In reply to education not required?!? ...

Kinda puts a little bit of a twist on that particular saying... or maybe it just twists it into clearer focus!

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This is not a story

by amcol In reply to education not required?!? ...

Let's get this straight. The article says GAO found 463 employees in the eight agencies it surveyed appearing on the rolls of the diploma factories. There are 2.5 million federal employees, but since this study focused on only eight agencies let's say that GAO actually looked at the credentials of about 16,000 people (the average federal agency employs about 2,000). So statistically the diploma purchasers as a percent of the total population were about 2.9%.

Anybody want to opine how this compares to private industry? I'd guess pretty favorably.

I'm not apologizing for the federal government (despite the fact that I am, myself, a fed) but credential inflation is nothing new. The stakes may be higher at the federal level but no organization is immune.

This isn't about the breakdown of federal bureacracy. This is about one person who had the arrogance and temerity to think she could misrepresent her background, be unqualified for her position, act like a tyrant, and get away with all of it. While the background check (such as it was) may have been flawed, the system eventually worked as it should have...she was found out and dealt with.

Separate issue...some posters are arguing that credentials, especially college degrees, are unnecessary anyway, that there are those with natural abilities who can operate just as effectively as folks who have gone through the formal education process. A good point...some of the very best technicians I've ever worked with have no certs at all other than a high school diploma.

The argument, however, is specious. In this case the job required college level credentials, something that was undoubtedly documented in the formal position description. Whether or not job seekers agree that degrees or certs need be required is irrelevant...if the organization in question has certain credentials listed as fundamental job requirements, then that's what you need to get and keep the job. I find this argument typically advanced by people who lack the credentials, and while I respect those who have made successes of themselves without benefit of formal training no one has the right to shape the rules to fit individual situations, or to use "natural ability" as a justification to circumvent the system.

BTW...there are those of us who DO have credentials who also have some natural ability as well. I'll take street smarts over book smarts anytime, but it's a mistake to underestimate anyone who has a bunch of letters after their name for any reason.

Also BTW...just because a background check isn't thorough or complete prior to an employee's start date is insufficient to condemn that system or the people who administer it. New employees are generally on a three month probation period and can be terminated for any reason (or no reason) during that time without the organization being held accountable. Sometimes it takes a little longer than just a couple of weeks to complete the checks, especially for larger organizations (think the federal government qualifies?) due to the size of the workload.

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