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Gun Permits for the mentally ill

By aidemzo_adanac ·
Tags: Off Topic
In the USA, these issues always appear to be so hard to resolve as one state permits, one state does not, one state has some allowances etc. In Canada, the same problems are usually pretty easy to sort out, all the provinces will agree to a unified solution ( in most cases) , while Quebec does something else that nobody cares about and doesn't affect anyone else. In written legal terms, there's always the 'except in Quebec' clause, as they are restricted from doing pretty much anything.
When it comes to employment rights, same thing, the rest of Canada's provinces all get a level of protection, except residents of Quebec, who's employment laws are very similar to the US where the company is protected and can do pretty much what they want to an employee.

Preamble over, after watching the morning news I was wondering how Americans deal with issues when they are so separated by state laws. I completely understand the independence of states but I also see how it detracts from moving forward as a nation on many issues.

Gun laws: Today I almost fell out of bed while watching US news and how one state has denounced a new gun law amendment to protect the medical records of mentally ill people from being released to FBI conducting background checks for new permits.

I was sure I didn't her it right so I them looked it up and found it was true! So protecting a person's medical record release, when they sign a form accepting a background/security clearance check, medial records are off the record?

Their reasoning was that, if Americans know they MAY be restricted form buying a firearm, if they have a history of mental illness, they will be less likely to voluntarily enter a mental illness facility.

Even after confirming it, I still think they are having a laff. It appears that most states have laws where IF you've been voluntarily admitted and then released, you can still get a permit. If you were admitted against your will and THEN released, you were not, then again some states allow it for both.

I just don't get how ANYONE, EVER having been admitted for ANY reason would be allowed a firearms permit.

Shouldn't that be like question #1 for a gun permit?
Are you or were you ever a nutter? If YES, no gun for you!

How can there be ANY gray area around it? Are Americans THAT mental that even someone with a history of mental illness has his right to own a firearm defended?!? I still can't quite get my head around it myself, it's just so far out of this world that I don't see how anyone can actually say it with a straight face.

The state argues that medical history records are private, unless specifically authorized for release by the patient. Fair enough, I couldn't agree more. But when you sign a release for a criminal background history check, finding out if you are mentally unstable should be authorized at the same time.

So not only do pro gun activists feel ANYONE should have a gun and be able to get one quickly an without further delays, they also feel that the mentally ill (assumed "cured") should be able to get one without revealing their past mental illness history.

Seriously, you think you have problems in the middle east, try looking right next door instead. Your problems are internal, not in foreign countries.

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Oz, thanks.

by CharlieSpencer In reply to Oh...

The cops it is. I just don't know if I have to provide any proof of ownership, registration, or other documentation. I'd prefer to get rid of them in NC, where he lives, but since I don't live there, I'm unclear on how to legally demonstrate my inheritance of them. Most of the advice I've found on the web assumes I want to keep them, which I most certainly don't. Frankly, I'd like to see them melted down for scrap, but I don't own a blast furnace...

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by AV . In reply to Oh...

Charlie, don't go to the cops. They'll just take them. They may have some value to collectors. A gun dealer will help you and fill out the paperwork. See if you can get any paperwork on them.

I found this thread on a website you might find helpful.


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Blast furnace not needed

by aidemzo_adanac In reply to Oh...

Just because you are NOW in possession of them, I assume and don't have the legal paperwork, you will be quickly excused if you call police about them.

"Hi I was left two pistols by my father and I don't really want them around, I don't know if they are even legal for me to possess so, rather than face issues down the road, what is the best way to dispose of them?

As far as I know they are not loaded but I am not 100% sure as I don't like to handle guns. Is it possible that an officer can come by , secure them and remove them from the home?"

Play dumb, innocent and dead honest.

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Minor clarification.

by CharlieSpencer In reply to Oh...

The old boy is still with us. I'll eventually be executor of his estate, and I'm trying to lay some ground work. I'm reasonably certain I can safely carry them out of the house and keep them pointed in a safe direction long enough to clear them. I'll definitely go with any option that has someone come after them, since I don't know the laws regarding tooling around with one in the car. I'm sure not going to stroll into a police station carrying one in either hand.

AV, the manufacturing statistics indicate there are plenty of firearms in this country already, with more being made daily. The absence of two handguns and an air rifle aren't going to make any difference except to my piece of mind. Your linked article is typical of those I found with information about how to keep or sell them, chock full of abbreviations and acronyms I'm unfamiliar with and am frankly uninterested in learning. wWhat little I've read of NC law confuses me; it seems to indicate that to inherit them, I have to fill out a form and pay a fee. When the time comes, I won't want to have to find any paperwork, pay any fees, talk to any dealers, and won't care about taking legal possession so I can sell them for whatever they're worth. I'll just want rid of the responsibility of them as quickly and easily as possible, and I already know how to call **1.

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by AV . In reply to Oh...

I'm glad you clarified that. I guess the firearms aren't really wanted.

Maybe its stupid, but in some families weapons are passed down. Its old time stuff, but it has meaning to the family.


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AV, nothing stupid about it.

by CharlieSpencer In reply to Oh...

It's a question of what individual families emphasize. I'm sure we'll hang on to plenty of items that others would regard as pointless or silly.

There's no sentimental value here. I think the handguns are left over from his days captaining charter fishing boats and were used to dispatch any sharks the clients insisted on bringing aboard. The air rifle is from Wal-Mart, used to run the most obnoxious of squirrels and raccoons off the bird feeders. No military service stories, no hand-me-down history.

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My guess, completely unsupported by facts.

by CharlieSpencer In reply to Gun Permits for the menta ...

"How can there be ANY gray area around it? Are Americans THAT mental that even someone with a history of mental illness has his right to own a firearm defended?!?"

Recent polls since Sandy Point show that between 70% and 80% of the US voting population supports a national database for the pre-screening of all gun sales. Also, the percentage of gun-owning households is down from 37% or so in the late '60s to 24% or so today. While fewer people overall own them, that minority is buying at record levels. The number of gun owning households may be down, but the average number of guns in them is going up.

My totally unsupported guess is the gun industry, like the tobacco industry, sees its shrinking customer base and will do anything to slow that decline. This includes using its puppets in the NRA leadership to whip gun owners into a frenzy whenever any form of gun legislation is merely filed, regardless of whether it is eventually debated or (gos forbid) passed. Overwrought owners go on buying sprees in the potential affected political subdivision, regardless of the extent of the potential restrictions, regardless of the chances of passing or failing. The NRA exercises political power all out of proportion to its percentage of the voting population simply because it has deep pockets, which are mostly refilled not by individual owners' dues but by the gun industry.

Indeed, I suspect the industry of viewing each new mass shooting like children at Christmas. They know there will be a rash of new gun control legislation proposed, driving up sales to those trying to get as many arms as possible before that legislation takes effect (which it never does). It doesn't matter if gun advocates or gun controllers win or lose the game, or even how it's played; the industry comes out ahead as soon as the anthem plays and the umpire cries, "Play ball!"

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by aidemzo_adanac In reply to My guess, completely unsu ...

IN this case, that's the whole point. People support pre-screening, but those with a history of mental illness CANNOT be screened to see if they've been in a looney bin or not. The government, who doesn't protect anyone's privacy for any reason, protects people' s medical records from review, even when applying for a permit!

It varies by state but it seems commonly, if you admit yourself and later leave, you are okay to have a gun. If you are admitted by court or whatever means, after you are deemed sane again, you are okay to get a gun.

The people conducting record checks are not allowed to look at your mental history records, a big problem in my eyes. If you HAVE a permit and THEN are sent to the nuthouse, your permit is simply suspended until your release.

"Here you go, you are free from the insane asylum today, here's your pistol back, have a great day!" It sounds absolutely insane but it's a reality that is actually defended.

I've seen more realistic concepts lines in a National Lampoon movie!

P.S. don't worry about the tobacco industry, I'm dumb enough to keep them afloat.

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by jp85257 In reply to Gun Permits for the menta ...

it would be a violation of the HIPAA law. We must obey Federal laws. We wouldn't want to use common sense.

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I used to have a phobia,

by john.a.wills In reply to Gun Permits for the menta ...

never mind of what. Once I recognized that my behavior was harmful to others I saw a clinical psychologist, he gave me some exercises to do, I did them, the weird behavior stopped. Should I be forbidden to have a gun for that reason? I don't actually want one, you understand, as they are burglar magnets, and as sometimes small children, not to mention a lunatic neighbor, come into my house

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