Question

Locked

Hard disk problem

By melina_soemanto_putri ·
I am trying to make a backup data from my hard disk that has "Bad Block" problem by copying them to another hard disk.
But aside form Event I 7 Error: "The device \Device\Harddisk1\D has a bad block" (I know Harddisk1 refers to my hard disk that has "Bad Block") some other events appears:

1.Event I 26 Warning:"The driver has detected that device \Device\Ide\IdePort0 has old or out-of-date firmware" Reduced performance may result" I wonder why this event appears, I used my hard disk before get a bad block and never get this event.

2.Event I 51 Warning:"An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk1\D during a paging operation"
3.Event I 9 Error:"The device, \Device\Ide\IdePort0, did not respond within timeout period"
4.Event I 11 Error:"The driver detected a controller error on \Device\Ide\IdePort0" This event only appears 1 time,though.

I wonder what the cause of these events appearing (it is just because my hard disk that has "bad block" or there is another cause aside from it).

And what should I do with the hard disk that reported has a bad block? (Does formatting it resolved this problem or should I get a new hard disk)

If I choose get a new hard disk, will the Bad Blocks appears as soon as possible in my new hard disk if I copying my backup data (the data that was copied from the hard disk that has "Bad Blocks" to the hard disk that was used for backup) to my new hard disk?

If not, how many long that new hard disk will get "Bad Blocks" problem?

The last thing I want to know, what is the real cause of "Bad Blocks"? Because my PC has a hard disk that is almost 6 years old and doesn't get a "Bad Block" and My brother has an exactly same type of hard disk that mine which has "Bad Blocks", but he doesn't get this problem, my hard disk that has a "Bad Blocks" and my brothers is bought on same day.

This conversation is currently closed to new comments.

25 total posts (Page 2 of 3)   Prev   01 | 02 | 03   Next
Thread display: Collapse - | Expand +

All Answers

Collapse -

Well in order

by OH Smeg In reply to Question about more expla ...

1 and 2. When I'm copying my file from the HDD that has Bad Blocks, Windows sometimes gave me some events in event viewer:

The Drive that is the source of the copy is faulty and the files that can not be copied are corrupted.

a.Warning Event ID:51 Source:Disk An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk1\D during a paging operation
b.Error Event ID:9 Source:atapi The device \Device\Ide\IdePort0, did not respond within timeout period.
c.Warning Event ID:26 Source:atapi The driver has detected that device \Device\Ide\IdePort0 has old or out-of-date firmware.Reduced performance may result.
d.Error Event ID:11 Source:atapi The driver has detected a controller error on \Device\Ide\IdePort0.

I'm asking question number 2 because these events appear in my event viewer. (d) only appear one time, (c) appear several time, (a) and (b) mostly appear. But sometimes, they doesn't appear. So, I'm thinking it appears when I'm copying files that


A There is an error on the disc with the files that you want to copy and that particular file is damaged or corrupted. Read that as a Bad Block.

B Whatever is on the IDE 0 Port didn't respond within the allowed time.

[c]C This is just telling you that the firmware on the IDE Port 0 is a old HDD that may have a newer Firmware available.

D The Device on IDE Port 0 has a problem with the Circuit Board on it.

Does these event only cause by the HD that Bad Blocks like I'm thinking or there is something else that also has a problem? Microsoft Website doesn't help me.

These errors are caused by the Bad Blocks and are not occuring because the Copy method being used is creating the bad blocks. Though the more you use this drive the more Bad Blocks it is going to develop.

3.Does I have to reinstall my programs that was in my HDD that has Bad Blocks. Or I could just copy them to appropriate path in new hard drive considering the registry is still intact where Windows installed.

You may get away with just coping the Files off the HDD onto another but if there are any corrupt files these will need to be replaced. If they are in a Piece of Software it is generally easier to reload that piece of software.

4.My brothers hard disk doesn't have bad blocks. It only has 1 weak block (>500ms to access that block). What should I do?

Well not actually correct the drive has a weak block which will turn bad. It is in the process of failing so you need to backup everything on it and replace it before it causes problems. Saying this isn't bad is like saying I'm not pregnant I'm only a little bit pregnant by 2 weeks. It's not a case of being a little bit bad these are either Bad or Good there is no in between just stages of Failure.

For a better copy utility to the one in Windows you can use this one which gives better error reports it's called Supercopier and is available free from here.

http://tinyurl.com/5mx6d2

Col

Collapse -

Thanks for reply and Some Question (again)

by melina_soemanto_putri In reply to Well in order

1.So those event cause by bad blocks and is going to develop more bad blocks.Is this true? So what should I do now, I'm still in middle of backing up my data using Copy process (still about 50GBs more).

2.In my brother HD, there is a folder that took about 15-30 seconds to access, it is about 15GB and has about 30.000+ files.This folder was always like that since several months ago when it was created, it holds several games for PC. Does this cause the weak sector/ was caused by the weak sector?

3.Some people say that Bad Blocks could be cause by Logical or/and Physical problem on the HD and if it was Logical, it could fixed with some program/software, it is true?

4.I've brought my PC with all the HD to a Computer Technician and he told me that the HD (that with Bad Blocks) is fine and he told me to format it to fix this problem. Should I do as he says or get a new HD?

5.If I should get a new HD, should I run a HD Check Utility as precaution there is not Bad Blocks in the new HD?

Collapse -

What should I do now?

No one answer my questions in the previous post. So now I'm confused what to do.

Seagate support said that I could get a replacement, but I'm still wondering about what to do from my previous post.

Collapse -

Just a fix option (may be temporary)

by IC-IT In reply to Thanks for reply and Some ...

Sorry, i am too tired to go into detail, but if you want to recover your drive for an hour to ten years of operation, please read this post (primarily the MHDD32 part);

http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=101&threadID=265447&messageID=2514767

Collapse -

Re: What should I do now ? ....

by OldER Mycroft In reply to Hard disk problem

1.So those event cause by bad blocks and is going to develop more bad blocks.Is this true? So what should I do now, I'm still in middle of backing up my data using Copy process (still about 50GBs more).

YES - it is true. You should continue to copy until all your data is on the other disk.

2.In my brother HD, there is a folder that took about 15-30 seconds to access, it is about 15GB and has about 30.000+ files.This folder was always like that since several months ago when it was created, it holds several games for PC. Does this cause the weak sector/ was caused by the weak sector?

Sorry, but I cannot understand this fixation you seem to have with what has caused these bad blocks. These bad blocks are indicators of wear & tear that can happen to anything that has moving parts. You would not blame a particular stretch of road on the fact that your shoes had started to leak.

3.Some people say that Bad Blocks could be cause by Logical or/and Physical problem on the HD and if it was Logical, it could fixed with some program/software, it is true?

Whether or not a hard drive can be repaired you still HAVE TO get your remaining healthy data off it first. Usually if a hard drive has a few damaged bits or bytes, there are programs that can mark these area as 'Out Of Bounds' thereby recovering it's operation, but ONLY so you can remove your data before eventually chucking the drive away. Your bad blocks drive is already way beyond that form of recovery.

4.I've brought my PC with all the HD to a Computer Technician and he told me that the HD (that with Bad Blocks) is fine and he told me to format it to fix this problem. Should I do as he says or get a new HD?

If you seriously believed this 'Computer Technician' you wouldn't have spent all this time asking us questions, now would you?

In any event, even if formatting it would fix it - you cannot format it until you have copied all your important data off it, can you?

Try formatting it once you have finished copying your data, then you will have the answer to your question.

5.If I should get a new HD, should I run a HD Check Utility as precaution there is not Bad Blocks in the new HD?

You won't be able to run a 'HD Check Utility' on the new HD because you will have to FORMAT it first.
__________________________________________

No one answer my questions in the previous post. So now I'm confused what to do.

There is a VERY good possibility that you are not getting an answer because some of us are asleep. You have to understand that we are scattered all around the planet, we don't all operate in the same time-zone as you do. Try to remember that.

Seagate support said that I could get a replacement, but I'm still wondering about what to do from my previous post.

Sorry again, but have you always been so indecisive? You have been told repeatedly what is wrong and what to do to fix it, but you still seem to want to know who is to blame for this problem.

ANSWER - nobody is to blame. You wouldn't look for someone to blame because only one of your teeth required a filling from a Dentist. It just happens.

It's called LIFE.



<Compositor code error due to Server Maintenance - BOO!!>

Collapse -

Thanks for that Mycroft

by OH Smeg In reply to Re: What should I do now ...

Yes Sleep is Good but I was Working.

Funny how when you are in a secure sector of a Bank they don't want you accessing the outside world isn't it. :0

God I need to get a life perhaps someone is selling a good one on E-Bay today and I can buy it.

Col

Collapse -

Sorry if I'm sound rude

I'm really sorry if I'm sound rude. There is so much information about Bad Blocks in the internet and others people gave me really different responses. This is the first Bad Blocks problem I've ever had, so I think it's better safe than sorry if it happens again I could be sure what should I do.

Reply and Some question again, sorry if I'm too much asking:

For question number 2:
My brother HD doesn't have Bad Blocks, it only has Weak Block/Weak Sector (a Sector that has >500ms to access).Should I be cautious to it? Seatools still marks my brother HD as Passed, though.

New question:
1.Yesterday, I used Speedfan to check my HDs fitness and performance.
The 6 years old HD has 98% fitness and 98% performance.
The HD with Bad Block only has 57% fitness and 98% performance.
My brother HD has 95% fitness and 98% performance.

I wonder what caused so much difference in the fitness between my HD that has Bad Block and the other two? I know all drives eventually failed, but I wonder what could be causing it failed sooner than the other two.

2.Someone said not enough power supply into it will eventually caused Bad Blocks problem. Is this true and how could I determine that my HDs has enough power?

3.Last week, I brought my HD to a computer technician as I posted before.
The bad blocks error message doesn't reappear for few days, I'm even adding some more data into it and still not getting any errors. But,several days after that, I found some file are corrupted because of the repairing process by that computer technician, so I'm using a torrent do download it again. It is the same torrent that I used before the file is corrupted. In the middle of downloading, I get some Bad Blocks error message again.

My question for this number:

Does using torrents to download a file from the Internet could cause Bad Blocks problem (making the HD failing sooner) or the HD is actually already in process of failing (not because I'm using torrents to download)??

I'm asking this because now regularly I'm downloading some files using torrents to my HD that now has Bad Blocks problem, it never happened before (I rarely used torrent before I get this HD that now has Bad Blocks last year and it doesn't happens in my 6 years old HD -> I only used torrents several times to download file to this HD and I only used torrent 1 time to download to my brother HD)

By the way, the files that was downloaded using torrents is safe. I've used Virus Scan and Spyware Checker.

4.Attribute 001 (Raw Error Value) and 195 (Hardware ECC Recovered) Raw Value on my HD sis increasing by itself and both of them has same Raw Value (Raw Error Value = Hard ECC Recovered)every time I check the SMART Result. Is this fine? I'm using Seagate as my HDs that's why I used Seatools.

Again, sorry if I'm sound too much asking.

Collapse -

Well from the beginning

by OH Smeg In reply to Sorry if I'm sound rude

For question number 2:
My brother HD doesn't have Bad Blocks, it only has Weak Block/Weak Sector (a Sector that has >500ms to access).Should I be cautious to it? Seatools still marks my brother HD as Passed, though.


If it is reporting a problem this is the start of the problem it will get worse. As for Seatools as the drive is still currently working it will pass but Seatools isn't a definitive test. What will happen is that the drive will develop Bad Blocks and then you loose Data. Most people don't want to loose data so we try to prevent this. If you are not concerned by the data stored on the drive run it till it stops.

But really the real value in any computer system is the Data on the Drive it costs far more than a new system to put there quite a few thousand $ to recover if the drive fails and depending what it actually is can bankrupt a company or cause major Legal Problems if it is the only copy on a failed drive. I recently paid $46,000.00 AU to recover a 40 GIG 2.5 Inch Drive as the companies main NB was stolen and this drive had been dropped. They had to report to the Tax Man for an Audit and simply had to recover the data as the Australian Taxation Commission will not accept a Sorry we lost it as an excuse on not furnishing records to determine how much tax needed to be paid.

New question:
1.Yesterday, I used Speedfan to check my HDs fitness and performance.
The 6 years old HD has 98% fitness and 98% performance.
The HD with Bad Block only has 57% fitness and 98% performance.
My brother HD has 95% fitness and 98% performance.

I wonder what caused so much difference in the fitness between my HD that has Bad Block and the other two? I know all drives eventually failed, but I wonder what could be causing it failed sooner than the other two.


The difference in Fitness is due to the fact that the Data Surface has been somehow damaged so the drives Data Surface is no longer Fit to Save Data. The small variance in the others is just the individual drives different Manufacturing Tolerances.

2.Someone said not enough power supply into it will eventually caused Bad Blocks problem. Is this true and how could I determine that my HDs has enough power?

This can happen but if it was the case all the drives fitted to this computer would be affected not just one.With a HDD and Power there are 3 things that you need to take into account that can be damaged if there isn't enough Voltage or Current. The Circuit Board on the HDD will not send the right signals tot he HDD and this will affect the way that the Read/Write Heads move across the surface of the platter and the inability to read all of the Disc if any at all. The Motor that spins the platter if there isn't either enough Power in the form of Voltage or Amperage the Motor will not run at the stated speed on the Sticker on the case something like 5,400 or 7,000 RPM Revolutions Per Minute

Then there is the actual Stepping motor that moves the Read/Write Heads if there is not enough power available here either in Voltage or Amperage it will not be able to move the Heads reliably where it should. This is different from the Signals sent from the Circuit Board which tell the Stepping Motor where to sent the Read Write Heads while both have the same end result the reason why it is happening can be very different and unrelated to the complete mechanism.

3.Last week, I brought my HD to a computer technician as I posted before.
The bad blocks error message doesn't reappear for few days, I'm even adding some more data into it and still not getting any errors. But,several days after that, I found some file are corrupted because of the repairing process by that computer technician, so I'm using a torrent do download it again. It is the same torrent that I used before the file is corrupted. In the middle of downloading, I get some Bad Blocks error message again.

My question for this number:

Does using torrents to download a file from the Internet could cause Bad Blocks problem (making the HD failing sooner) or the HD is actually already in process of failing (not because I'm using torrents to download)??


No using Torrents doesn't hurt the drive you are getting these errors because the drive is failing not because it is being used. Though if you want to get picky the more that the use it the more errors are going to crop up and cause problems. So what happens here is that the drive will continue to work creating more & more bad blocks till there is no data storage left on the drive.

4.Attribute 001 (Raw Error Value) and 195 (Hardware ECC Recovered) Raw Value on my HD sis increasing by itself and both of them has same Raw Value (Raw Error Value = Hard ECC Recovered)every time I check the SMART Result. Is this fine? I'm using Seagate as my HDs that's why I used Seatools.

What's the Raw Value I don't know where this term comes from but as it's obviously from some software it really depends on what the person/people who wrote that software wanted it to do. It could be something as simple as a counter on the number of times used to something quite different.

Again I'm not sure what the ECC means in this context. in a general term it is a form of Memory that has Error Parity Checking and is used in Expensive RAM used in Servers. It's not normally used on domestic computers or workstations type PC's. It could relate to the Cache on the drive which is memory that is used to store the Read Write data either coming in or going out of the drive. The more cache on a HDD they faster it appears to be to the end user as it doesn't have to look for each bit of data every time a request is sent for something. With the Cache on HDD they copy all of the data close to the bit that was wanted to the Cache and if the next bit, packet or whatever is wanted it is sent from the Cache rather than getting the Heads to seek and locate it. So the more Cache and the faster it is on the HDD the faster it appears to move data from or to the computer. Though this is mostly used to copy from the HDD to whatever requires it.

Now with Seatools I only really look at if the drive passes or not and if it is Under Guarantee what the error message is as I can not alter anything and I do need the Error Message to fill in the Warranty Form. A HDD Engineer may want to know other things to improve the design on the next version but it isn't important to anyone else.

As for the Bad Blocks reappearing after a few days I would guess that the drive was Low Level Formatted and showed up as OK with no errors after the format but as it was used the Bad Blocks returned as the Magnetic Material lost the Magnetism or the level of magnetic charge either drained away or was built up from adjacent blocks of Storage. This is different to a Block shown under test as these are quite a few blocks where as the individual Data Block holds a certain amount of Data in either a High of Low Magnetic Charge and this leaches away to equal the surrounding blocks over time. A very short time but it would still happen even if the drive wasn't used the only difference is that you wouldn't be aware of this happening.

Now the reason why some accept Bad Blocks is that in the Old Days the technology involved in making these devices was a lot further backward that it is today. When you bought a New Drive it could have some Bad Blocks on it because this was a manufacturing issue so the drive makers made the drives bigger than the advertised actual size so that they could loose some storage and still be bigger than what the person Purchased. The reason for this was that they could say that there is nothing wrong with the drive and we are not going to replace it under guarantee. They used to let the drive go to up to 5% of bad blocks without the need to replace one Under Guarantee. There was then software around that stopped the drives accessing any Marked Bad Blocks and more software incorporated into BIOS which allowed you to Low Level Format a HDD. As the drives got more reliable the need for these bits of software was removed so it was eventually dropped as it cost the software companies and BIOS Chip Writers too much to continue to develop this software. By deleting this from BIOS it also cleared up space in the BIOS Chip that was used for other more important things to make the system work better.

Col

Collapse -

Thanks for your explanation

by melina_soemanto_putri In reply to Well from the beginning

Currently, I'm still doing backup some backup (still about 25% more).

Thanks for your explanation.

Some question:

1.Could you give me a list of what is causing Bad Blocks and/or Hard Drive failure (the usual and unusual causes). I've search in Google but I prefer from what people experienced.

I know that all HDs eventually failed, but before I change my HDs I want to diagnostics what caused Bad Blocks in my HD first.

2.About question,number 3 before. I found that Someone said in his blog that he was using torrents before he had Bad Blocks in his HD when I was searching in Google.

I wonder does using torrents made the HD heads to work harder than usual,in term the HD heads has to move much faster to write into the HD when downloading.

Even though, the faster way to check whether this is true or not is by using torrents in my old HD or my new HD, if it has Bad Blocks again, then most likely it was caused by using torrents.

Collapse -

Well you get the Bad Blocks in this case because the

by OH Smeg In reply to Thanks for your explanati ...

Coating on the platter is failing. This could either be because of a Mechanical Damage or heat damage destabilizing the material that coats the platter. Or it may also be because of some impurities that contaminated either the Platter or Coating before it was applied. Basically the Magnetic Coating on the platter which looks a bit like a layer of paint is failing.

Using Torrents isn't likely to do anything to the drive but it's impossible to say definitively that it will not hurt things but it shouldn't. The main controllable things that do damage a HDD are Heat and Vibration. So the hotter a drive gets or if it is located in a position where the computer case gets moved while the drive is running you need to minimize or prevent this from happening. Things like Dot Matrix or Bubble Jet Printers on the same desk can cause the desk to move and this can shorten the Life of a HDD.

Also your current HDD isn't to be considered as typical as it has started to fail and when you Format the Drive it will return to the same state if you run it or not so it doesn't count.

Where I work this isn't an issue because the Computers get decommissioned around 3 to 5 years after being bought not because they have any problems but because they are no longer a Tax Deduction for the Business that I support. It is cheaper for the business to replace the computer than to keep it so they go. Depending on the business the HDD may get wiped and sent out blank or it may be destroyed. Some places Can Not allow Data to escape under any conditions so they destroy the HDD in their computers and the computers go to Auction or wherever with either no HDD or a New Blank HDD depending on what the individual company does prefers to do with their old equipment.

I don't think you have any idea of exactly what is inside a HDD which need to be manufactured inside a Class 1 Clean room where everything is controlled from the Amount of Light & Dust to the Ambient Temperature. You just can not throw the pieces together and expect the drive to work. Quantum did this with one model of HDD and they are now broke and bought out cheaply because of it. But in an attempt to help you understand why a HDD does what it does try looking here on the How Stuff Works Site it's not in depth or overly technical so it's not a definitive Description but as a General Purpose Document it's fairly good.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/hard-disk.htm

Col

Back to Software Forum
25 total posts (Page 2 of 3)   Prev   01 | 02 | 03   Next

Related Discussions

Related Forums