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February 15, 2005 at 10:04 am #2174757
Home routers – The best of the cheap
Lockedby house · about 19 years, 1 month ago
Any solid unbias reviews of cheap hardware routers?
ie. Linksys, D-Link, etc…
I am interested in getting a newer device with a solid firewall interface, more advanced options, ICMP rules, wireless connection certificates, DMZ… perhaps even logging to a network share (does that even exist on these things?). My current router is crap.
Basically, I want the best of the $50 – $150 range. Any reviews, suggestions, issues? Of course, I would rather run a *nix box firewall OS, but that’ll have to wait.
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February 15, 2005 at 11:23 am #3348442
cheap yet reliable
by jdclyde · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Home routers – The best of the cheap
D-link is what I have at home and have never had a problem with it. Great if basing just on price.
For about $20 more I like netgear better. Have set up a few and never have a probelem with them either, just like the options and interface better.
I do not like the support you get with linksys. I thought they would take off after Cisco bought them, but they are off shore for support. (atleast was last summer). The sales people were also rather clueless.
I think that the netgears ARE linux boxes too.
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February 15, 2005 at 11:50 am #3348428
Thanks…
by house · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to cheap yet reliable
I was leaning towards Linksys because of their Cisco blood, but I think I’ll reconsider and weigh my options without playing favourites.
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February 15, 2005 at 12:19 pm #3348397
Linksys…
by mrafrohead · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Home routers – The best of the cheap
Granted I HATE linksys after Cisco bought them out, but they still make a fairly good product.
After their last update of firmware that is… ;p
I would recommend you get the WRT54GS (yes S)
That will get you wireless if you so choose to dork around with it, and 4 ports of wired that you can share out to a switch and expand to your hearts desire…
The security with the current firmware is not too shabby either. Easy to setup and has a lot of very nice features…
I believe that they are up to version 2 in teh hardware of the WRT54GS, so make sure that you get yourself one of the newer ones with the new hardware.
Yes, support sucks ass as mentioned previously unless you speak Indian, BUT – you strike me as a pretty intelligent guy and probably won’t need their support as you can find all of your answers on Google, should you have too look…
Enjoy!
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February 15, 2005 at 1:24 pm #3349360
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February 15, 2005 at 1:37 pm #3349339
Complex options
by mrafrohead · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Linksys = 1 Netgear = 1
Use Linksys!
If you use the WRTG54GS – you have the option of using an aftermarket firmware to add extra features and security to the router.
The default firmware is not that bad to start, but you can change it if you want.
The code is GPL!
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February 15, 2005 at 2:54 pm #3349309
Beautiful
by house · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Complex options
That’s the best thing I’ve heard all week. Linksys has a huge lead right now. My original plan was to set up a Linux box anyways. I’ll have to check that out for sure.
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February 15, 2005 at 4:34 pm #3349282
Reply To: Home routers – The best of the cheap
by mrafrohead · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Beautiful
Just google wrt54gs firmware and you’ll see what i”m talking about.
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February 23, 2005 at 5:10 am #3334433
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February 15, 2005 at 3:26 pm #3349297
Give me a week
by thechas · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Home routers – The best of the cheap
In about a week, (time permitting) I should be able to provide a comparison of a Linksys and a Netgear router.
I ordered 2 Netgear routers for $16 each US.
My 2 year old Linksys was supposed to have a firewall. What it actually has is an option to limit access to only computers with Zone Alarm Pro installed.
I’ll let you know what I discover.
Chas
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February 15, 2005 at 3:31 pm #3349296
New “Pre-N”
by tbragsda · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Home routers – The best of the cheap
.
Just got in a Belkin “Pre-N”. Will let you all know how it goes, but advertises 800% more coverage, and 20+MbpsTBR
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February 16, 2005 at 7:35 am #3349145
Belkin… ack
by house · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to New “Pre-N”
I’ve had historic issues with Belkin routers, but your feedback from recent experience will be much appreciated.
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February 17, 2005 at 2:43 am #3348772
Pre N is still a Pre standard. Should stay out
by wilswong1 · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to New “Pre-N”
Heard about the Pre N. And Australian PC magazine have an article on its bad advertisement promises. Not where near to their promises it said.
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February 17, 2005 at 10:54 am #3349451
Well, thats why we test them.
by tbragsda · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Pre N is still a Pre standard. Should stay out
.
Its about the same price as a Linksys. I would worry about it if it were 4x the price of a 802.11g, but its not.Ill post something on how it works. I purchased matching cards, and plan to test with a number of different setups.
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February 16, 2005 at 12:40 am #3349218
To answer this question
by garion11 · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Home routers – The best of the cheap
I have setup both Linksys and Netgear (both wired and wireless) for customers. Admittedly I have never tweaked that much with some advanced options so I can’t comment on those (although it appears Linksys is loaded with them).
As far as functionality and ease of setup…both are equal.
Reliability they both seem to be equal as far as wired configurations.
Now the wireless is a different story…Netgear wireless (I used the 108mbps SuperG Router with Netgear NIC cards) was not as good as Linksys…as it kept dropping connections, wasn’t as powerful distance wise, and was prone to interruptions. I have setup a total of 3 (not sure if thats a good number, you be the judge :))and they all displayed one or all these annoying issues.
Linksys on the other hand was excellent in its range and power. Mind you I used the 54G model with Linksys cards and adapters. Linksys wasn’t perfect by any means (I don’t think any wireless is perfect at this point) but it functioned far better than Netgear (which is surprising since I was always a fan of Netgear). DLink and Asante are also some other names you should try as I heard some excellent things about them.
There is my limited story/experience with these routers. Hopefully this will help you choose the right one.
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February 16, 2005 at 6:21 am #3349171
I haven’t set many up either
by house · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to To answer this question
I haven’t set up that many myself, but I do troubleshoot about 10-20 different models per day. It’s hard to judge whether or not the issues were due to user error, or if the issues where directly related to the quality of the router. Most of my inquiries and configuration help are resolved over the telephone.
I guess, in conserdering my options, I can scratch D-Link and Belkin of the list. I’ve had nothing but grief with these routers, but like I said, only through remote help.
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February 16, 2005 at 9:53 am #3349095
damn double post
by jdclyde · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to I haven’t set many up either
Sorry everyone.
I have used a computer before.
REALLY. -
February 16, 2005 at 9:54 am #3349094
played with a few
by jdclyde · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to I haven’t set many up either
Linksys = 3
d-link = 1 (works well, just don’t “like” it)
Netgear = 7I needed to get some antennas, and linksys was useless. D-link was actually the most help if you need to do this (shocked me). They make a wide range, and all the cables you would need with them.
One of my projects was to bridge the network out to a remote building that has been a pain in my A$$ with electrical issues because of being industrial. When we fire up our welding machines, we cause a brown out around the lake. (oops). Can you believe that they want US to pay for their upgrade to keep this from happening, when we were there before the houses were?
Started with two linksys bridges, but AFTER getting them it turns out they won’t connect to each other, only to an access point. Got a netgear at the other end.If you want features, your looking a few hundred to get in the highend netgears. All depends on what you want/need. VPN is not on the base models.
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February 16, 2005 at 9:46 am #3349100
Another downside of Linksys
by jdclyde · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to To answer this question
They have been known to be flaky when it comes to DSL. It is a real hit and miss if it will even work. Haven’t heard of any problems with Cable.
My support issue is more if you need more parts or have a problem with the one you already have.
All Cisco did was buy out the lowend customer base with the linksys, so they can say “if you want X feature, buy our $600 model instead of our $60”.
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February 16, 2005 at 10:06 am #3349084
That’s true…
by salamander · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Another downside of Linksys
I’ve run into some problems with Linksys and DSL. I’ve had good luck with both Linksys and Netgear on cable…haven’t tried Netgear with wireless, though. Generally, I’ve been happy with both.
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February 17, 2005 at 5:36 pm #3348316
PPPoE is flaky
by house · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Another downside of Linksys
I don’t know who to blame. DSL is not really all that reliable to me (from experience) so I don’t plan on getting a DSL line ever.
Cable is fairly simple, but there are more outage issues… the problem with DSL is that when you get problems with the service, they are more severe.
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February 23, 2005 at 7:10 am #3334391
Problem with residential cable in US
by jdclyde · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to PPPoE is flaky
They block ports. Lots of them.
DSL just started to do this with port 25, as pointed out in another post, but you can opt-out of the blocking as I did.
I have had less down time with my DSL over the last three years than I did in the ONE year of cable before that. (cable was faster though).
When DSL goes down, it is because of a masive ice storm or something. When cable goes down it is because it is down again and will be up before 24 hours of the time you report it or they don’t have to reimburse you for the down time.
Charter Cable is just awful.
The only problems I really heard about for DSL is some providers don’t work well with Linksys.
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February 23, 2005 at 4:03 pm #3334193
DSL
by house · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Problem with residential cable in US
Is prone to less, but more serious, problems. Synch problems, authentication errors, server disconnects… these issues are sometimes more serious than a simple wiring or software issue. Maybe the lines in my town suck… yeah, that’s probably it. We provide DSL for Ontario and Quebec, but most of our inquiries are from our local clients.
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March 16, 2005 at 11:07 am #3350539
Cable outages
by doug m. · about 19 years ago
In reply to Problem with residential cable in US
The view I took when it came to cable or DSL, is that my phone has always worked for me, whereas cable seemed to always go out a lot. Sure, maybe cable is faster, but I took the reliability of DSL into account when deciding. What good is fast if it isn’t working, right?
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February 17, 2005 at 4:16 am #3348744
Gotta agree
by liame · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to To answer this question
I’m a big netgear fan in general, but I’ve had problems with several wireless hubs /routers dropping connections for no apparent reason.
And it can be a PITA adding non-netgear nodes (ie centrino notebooks) to a netgear wireless network.
I’d shy away from netgear for a wireless router at the moment, if you were considering wireless.
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February 17, 2005 at 4:20 am #3348741
I’m only considering wireless…
by house · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Gotta agree
for future implimentations. I do not use wireless at all in the home right now.
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March 16, 2005 at 11:14 am #3350535
netgear
by doug m. · about 19 years ago
In reply to To answer this question
One problem I had with my Netgear, and I don’t know if this is the fault of the product or user error, is that it kept dropping connections when I had DHCP enabled. Once I went with assigned addresses the problem went away. And if you lose your IP address, it makes it much harder to access the router as you have to go thru your browser to configure.
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February 16, 2005 at 9:18 am #3349109
How about open source?
by dave flick · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Home routers – The best of the cheap
Why not try setting up a linux based firewall? I have used smoothwall and I love it. All you need is an old PC and a couple of NICs. Download the software from smoothwall.org, burn the ISO to CD, pop it in the old PC and boot. The installer detects your hardware and installs the software. The price is perfect and you will end up with a really powerful firewall.
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February 16, 2005 at 2:23 pm #3348935
IpCop
by choppit · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to How about open source?
Also consider IPCop, http://www.ipcop.org which I believe originally branched off from the smoothwall project. Added benefits over a commercial router box would be the inclusion of squid cache and Snort IDS. It would be good as a home router/ firewall if you’re OK with having an extra beige box sitting around consuming power.
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February 16, 2005 at 2:15 pm #3348941
Linksys
by choppit · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Home routers – The best of the cheap
I like, use, and implement Linksys kit. I’ve always found it to be stable although every UK model (4) I’ve ever encountered had some issue with PPTP pass-thru not working. I usually have to install US firmware to resolve these problems. Linksys also have a habit of releasing firmware updates and then withdrawing it a few days later without notice. Unfortunately not all the models yet support SNMP logging as I found out when I replaced my BEFW11S4 for a WRT54G. Once working properly though , I never have problems.
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February 17, 2005 at 10:04 am #3349480
Give Smoothwall Express a look-see
by courtpctech · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Home routers – The best of the cheap
I’ve been using Smoothwall for nearly 3 years (gosh, doesn’t seem that long, though), and have had no problems with it. About the only capability that you’ve mentioned wanting to implement that isn’t directly supported with an “out-of-the-box” installation is remote logging. And, knowing the Smoothwall community, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s been accomplished. You’d have to follow someone else’s instructions to implement it, but if you’re relatively comfortable with *nix, you’d be in good shape. Even such, the Smoothwall forums are a great place to look for info.
I’m currently using a Smoothwall Express 2.0 Fixes 4 box (fixes 5 is out, but I haven’t installed it yet), and it’s working great. It’s got support for up to 3 nics, one for external (red), one for internal (green), and one for DMZ (orange). DMZ is effectively isolated from each of the other two interfaces, but the firewall will route the traffic as it needs to to get it passed to where it’s going. My box is a 6×86-200 with 64 Mb of ram, a 3 Gb hard disk, and 3 nics. I’m running Snort and a VPN with no problem.
You’ve also got support for dynamic DNS, so that your network would be available by name on the ‘net. Additionally, you’ve also got a timeserver that you can use to server NTP. It will give you access to the firewall from outside for management purposes, which you can disable…so be careful with that portion. There’s also port forwarding, DMZ pinholes, IP blocking, and other stuff.
I know, this is a long post, but I figured you might like a rundown of the major features. If you want to add wireless later on, you can go with either a wireless access point (as I’ve done), or a wireless router that can be configured as such. For the budget-conscious with a spare P5-class machine laying around, this is definitely the way to go in my opinion. I’ve even run it on a P5-120 with 32 Mb of RAM. Your biggest issue with less than 64 Mb of RAM is in patching the system to install updates, but even that can be overcome. At any rate, the price is definitely right.
Just remember, YMMV…..
Good luck!
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February 18, 2005 at 10:30 am #3348046
Snap Gear
by skull · about 19 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Home routers – The best of the cheap
I have had a D-Link 704 for years, did the firmware upgrades and it has worked for me til this day. If it is not broke, don’t fix it.
The Snapgear 530se has a nice firewall that is linux driven with a nice GUI, great tech support but you would need to add a switch to hook up a small home network.
It is twice the price as what you are looking for, but I might consider that my next move from my old, reliable D-Link 704…..but not yet anyway.
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March 11, 2005 at 5:05 pm #3351028
Bought My New Router
by house · about 19 years ago
In reply to Home routers – The best of the cheap
Linsys WRT54G. It’s a beautiful thing.
🙂
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March 12, 2005 at 2:56 pm #3350818
Congratulations!
by apotheon · about 19 years ago
In reply to Bought My New Router
I hope that works out for you. Let us know what you think of it, in detail.
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March 13, 2005 at 2:23 am #3331357
I already told you
by house · about 19 years ago
In reply to Congratulations!
It’s a beautiful thing. 😉
When I start tinkering with a few hacks, I’ll have more to say for sure.
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March 13, 2005 at 7:32 pm #3331190
I’ve had a few laughs
by house · about 19 years ago
In reply to Congratulations!
Go here…
then, click on the forums link – teehee
* crap – they took down the hack
They’ve decided to take it upon themselves to licence and charge for their 3rd party firmware. Looks like some source folks got to them.
I got a screenshot of this one.
http://www.dark.unitz.ca/~brouse/the_notorious_FAT/sveasoft_hack.png
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March 12, 2005 at 3:42 pm #3350810
Try this
by dafe2 · about 19 years ago
In reply to Bought My New Router
It is a beautiful thing. 🙂
If don’t already use it (or something else), try this:
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March 13, 2005 at 2:17 am #3331358
Never seen that one…
by house · about 19 years ago
In reply to Try this
But I’ve read quite a bit about this
http://www.batbox.org/wrt54g-linux.html
The onlly reason that I chose this router is it’s flexibility. I bought it, grabbed the latest flash immediately, and haven’t had a single problem. I’ll count the days before my first power cycle… hopefully I will never have to do it. 🙂
* I’ve read some scattered reviews of the various ‘firmware’ and ‘ram drive’ (for lack of a better term) hacks for the router. Is there one in particular that (is)…
you use, have used, unstable, stable, can damage the box… any recommendations and warnings would be much appreciated. 🙂
Right now I’m looking at Sveasoft’s Alchemy 6rc5. Any comments?
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March 13, 2005 at 5:43 am #3331318
Should have known :-)
by dafe2 · about 19 years ago
In reply to Never seen that one…
ROFL………I’m still laughing my hole off at the penguin & the router……
Actually, I use that same router in my office at home with the latest firmware & that’s it.
I added the monitor for it’s ability to send me SMTP alerts.The AP’s range works to my advantage…..you’d have to be on my doorstep to ‘mess arround’.
I don’t use (or believe in) software firewalls of ANY sort & haven’t had any problems with this setup. There’s a CISCO PIX on the network just in case………but it hasn’t seen any action. I only have 3 ports open. LOL
So, all I ever did is set it up, flash the ROM, secured it & let it gather dust on the bookcase.
IMO, I don’t think you’ll be doing too many power cycles as it seems to be a very reliable product.
Now that I think about it…..a lot of the guys prefer this router over others for VPN setups. I guess they had a lot of problems with D-Links – They don’t play well with CISCO SOHO’s. (Wonder why?)
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March 13, 2005 at 5:49 am #3331317
I’m not going to push it then
by house · about 19 years ago
In reply to Should have known :-)
Unless I get some solid feedback, there is no point in being the guinee pig.
We are a major Internet/Telecom provider, so I think that I’ll grab one of our gateways and play around with it too… don’t know why I’m still paying for a POTS line, my internet connection never goes down. I’m in a “we pay our taxes” cable node – heh.
ps – Is Link Logger supported with the factory firmware? Why do I think that I read somewhere that it is not supported with the Linksys factory OS? Maybe I should just shut up and try it.
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March 13, 2005 at 5:58 am #3331314
Absolutely……..here’s a sample:
by dafe2 · about 19 years ago
In reply to I’m not going to push it then
I think I just just edited my post at the same time…..I remembered some of our guys use this for VPN connections as well.
************************************************
The public IP was removed of course 😉
Link Logger Inbound Connection Attempt Alert Mar 12, 2005 19:48:49.943 204.1.226.228 : 54410 >>> : 21
Link Logger Inbound Connection Attempt Alert Mar 12, 2005 19:48:50.013 204.1.226.228 : 54410 >>> : 23
Link Logger Inbound Connection Attempt Alert Mar 12, 2005 19:48:50.453 204.1.226.228 : 54410 >>> : 21
Link Logger Inbound Connection Attempt Alert Mar 12, 2005 19:48:50.473 204.1.226.228 : 54410 >>> : 23
Link Logger Inbound Connection Attempt Alert Mar 12, 2005 19:48:50.964 204.1.226.228 : 54410 >>> : 21
Link Logger Inbound Connection Attempt Alert Mar 12, 2005 19:48:51.004 204.1.226.228 : 54410 >>> : 23
Link Logger Inbound Connection Attempt Alert Mar 12, 2005 19:48:51.475 204.1.226.228 : 54410 >>> : 21
Link Logger Inbound Connection Attempt Alert Mar 12, 2005 19:48:51.515 204.1.226.228 : 54410 >>> : 23
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March 13, 2005 at 6:13 am #3331312
hmmm
by house · about 19 years ago
In reply to Absolutely……..here’s a sample:
Why does it not seem to be working for me…
Let me get the facts;
– you have the same router
– you are not using 3rd party firmware
– you have the latest firmware from Linksys (3.03.6)I’ll read a bit more on it, but I’m positive that this is not supported. Are you sure that you are not using Alchemy? I’ve checked all of my settings…
f**k it – I’m going to work.
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March 13, 2005 at 5:22 pm #3331203
…………….weird
by dafe2 · about 19 years ago
In reply to Absolutely……..here’s a sample:
Don’t know what to say…………I did some checking too….& I found the references you were talking about. The new Linklogger rev supports the out of the box setup.
I haven’t tweaked the ROM at all other than flash the ROM. (Too damn lazy to do this at home 🙂
I (know) you did all the things we’d ask each other to do, so now I’m stumped???????
Actually your lucky you went to work……..my wife just came in and gave me ‘the look’.. LOL
Lemme know how you make out………..or if I can assist
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March 13, 2005 at 7:07 pm #3331191
ha ha ha ha ha ha
by house · about 19 years ago
In reply to Absolutely……..here’s a sample:
* It looks like they took down the hack, but see the second link for my screenshot.
http://www.sveasoft.com/modules/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=61
Now, I think I will stick with my factory flash.
If you don’t see what I am talking about… look for the black text near the top. I haven’t seen that in years. That’s what they get for messin’ with the GPL. heh
]:)
I’ve never laughed so hard at something so lame… hahahah
I got a screenshot of this one.
http://www.dark.unitz.ca/~brouse/the_notorious_FAT/sveasoft_hack.png
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March 16, 2005 at 9:33 am #3350579
Netgear
by doug m. · about 19 years ago
In reply to Home routers – The best of the cheap
I personally use a Netgear WIFI router (FM114P)with a built in firewall and it also acts as a print server, which comes in very handy. Don’t get the cheap ones they sell at the local stores, go with something like their FWG114P model which does both B and G WIFI. I have the B version which is ok too. Fast, reliable, good tech. support as well. Has a 3 year warranty. Also supports VPN. Costs roughly $156.
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March 16, 2005 at 10:45 am #3350549
rule of thumb
by apotheon · about 19 years ago
In reply to Netgear
Never get a Netgear switch or router that retails for less than $100. Netgear’s low-end stuff is crap. I’m a little iffy on the midrange equipment, too: at my datacenter job, we just installed a Cisco 56-port switch and moved a fiber connection from one of the Netgear switches to the Cisco. We discovered that disconnecting the fiber from the Netgear switch caused some huge problems, and actually crashed the BigIron switch the in the datacenter. Nobody saw that coming.
Yes, the Netgear crashed the BigIron. It’s that bad. We’ll be getting another Cisco switch so that if we ever have a need to move the fiber (such as hardware failure in the Cisco) we won’t have to plug into the Netgear to keep ourselves in operation. Suffice to say: I’m wary of Netgear.
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March 16, 2005 at 11:11 am #3350537
Netgear vs Cisco
by doug m. · about 19 years ago
In reply to rule of thumb
Well yeah I would agree that Cisco is probably better if you’re talking about a business rather than a home environment. But the mid-range Netgear stuff seems to work fine for the average home user with a handful of machines connected.
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March 16, 2005 at 11:43 am #3350531
indeed
by apotheon · about 19 years ago
In reply to Netgear vs Cisco
Obviously, the point of this discussion isn’t mid- to high-end business hardware. I might have gotten a mite pedantic, but my point is simply that I’m very wary of Netgear because their low-end stuff is crap and I’ve had issues with the mid-range gear that really should not happen with quality equipment.
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March 16, 2005 at 3:36 pm #3350470
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