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  • #2174757

    Home routers – The best of the cheap

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    by house ·

    Any solid unbias reviews of cheap hardware routers?

    ie. Linksys, D-Link, etc…

    I am interested in getting a newer device with a solid firewall interface, more advanced options, ICMP rules, wireless connection certificates, DMZ… perhaps even logging to a network share (does that even exist on these things?). My current router is crap.

    Basically, I want the best of the $50 – $150 range. Any reviews, suggestions, issues? Of course, I would rather run a *nix box firewall OS, but that’ll have to wait.

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    • #3348442

      cheap yet reliable

      by jdclyde ·

      In reply to Home routers – The best of the cheap

      D-link is what I have at home and have never had a problem with it. Great if basing just on price.

      For about $20 more I like netgear better. Have set up a few and never have a probelem with them either, just like the options and interface better.

      I do not like the support you get with linksys. I thought they would take off after Cisco bought them, but they are off shore for support. (atleast was last summer). The sales people were also rather clueless.

      I think that the netgears ARE linux boxes too.

      • #3348428

        Thanks…

        by house ·

        In reply to cheap yet reliable

        I was leaning towards Linksys because of their Cisco blood, but I think I’ll reconsider and weigh my options without playing favourites.

    • #3348397

      Linksys…

      by mrafrohead ·

      In reply to Home routers – The best of the cheap

      Granted I HATE linksys after Cisco bought them out, but they still make a fairly good product.

      After their last update of firmware that is… ;p

      I would recommend you get the WRT54GS (yes S)

      That will get you wireless if you so choose to dork around with it, and 4 ports of wired that you can share out to a switch and expand to your hearts desire…

      The security with the current firmware is not too shabby either. Easy to setup and has a lot of very nice features…

      I believe that they are up to version 2 in teh hardware of the WRT54GS, so make sure that you get yourself one of the newer ones with the new hardware.

      Yes, support sucks ass as mentioned previously unless you speak Indian, BUT – you strike me as a pretty intelligent guy and probably won’t need their support as you can find all of your answers on Google, should you have too look…

      Enjoy!

      • #3349360

        Linksys = 1 Netgear = 1

        by house ·

        In reply to Linksys…

        Tie game. Linksys seems to be applying the pressure though.

        Ps – I want the most complex firewall options available.

        • #3349339

          Complex options

          by mrafrohead ·

          In reply to Linksys = 1 Netgear = 1

          Use Linksys!

          If you use the WRTG54GS – you have the option of using an aftermarket firmware to add extra features and security to the router.

          The default firmware is not that bad to start, but you can change it if you want.

          The code is GPL!

        • #3349309

          Beautiful

          by house ·

          In reply to Complex options

          That’s the best thing I’ve heard all week. Linksys has a huge lead right now. My original plan was to set up a Linux box anyways. I’ll have to check that out for sure.

        • #3349282

          Reply To: Home routers – The best of the cheap

          by mrafrohead ·

          In reply to Beautiful

          Just google wrt54gs firmware and you’ll see what i”m talking about.

      • #3334433

        I feel the opposite…

        by stalymi ·

        In reply to Linksys…

        I love the fact that Cisco bought Linksys and has made the product even better. There is without a doubt a better product in a Linksys Router than Netgear or any other home base router out there.

    • #3349297

      Give me a week

      by thechas ·

      In reply to Home routers – The best of the cheap

      In about a week, (time permitting) I should be able to provide a comparison of a Linksys and a Netgear router.

      I ordered 2 Netgear routers for $16 each US.

      My 2 year old Linksys was supposed to have a firewall. What it actually has is an option to limit access to only computers with Zone Alarm Pro installed.

      I’ll let you know what I discover.

      Chas

    • #3349296

      New “Pre-N”

      by tbragsda ·

      In reply to Home routers – The best of the cheap

      .
      Just got in a Belkin “Pre-N”. Will let you all know how it goes, but advertises 800% more coverage, and 20+Mbps

      TBR

      • #3349145

        Belkin… ack

        by house ·

        In reply to New “Pre-N”

        I’ve had historic issues with Belkin routers, but your feedback from recent experience will be much appreciated.

      • #3348772

        Pre N is still a Pre standard. Should stay out

        by wilswong1 ·

        In reply to New “Pre-N”

        Heard about the Pre N. And Australian PC magazine have an article on its bad advertisement promises. Not where near to their promises it said.

        • #3349451

          Well, thats why we test them.

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to Pre N is still a Pre standard. Should stay out

          .
          Its about the same price as a Linksys. I would worry about it if it were 4x the price of a 802.11g, but its not.

          Ill post something on how it works. I purchased matching cards, and plan to test with a number of different setups.

    • #3349218

      To answer this question

      by garion11 ·

      In reply to Home routers – The best of the cheap

      I have setup both Linksys and Netgear (both wired and wireless) for customers. Admittedly I have never tweaked that much with some advanced options so I can’t comment on those (although it appears Linksys is loaded with them).

      As far as functionality and ease of setup…both are equal.

      Reliability they both seem to be equal as far as wired configurations.

      Now the wireless is a different story…Netgear wireless (I used the 108mbps SuperG Router with Netgear NIC cards) was not as good as Linksys…as it kept dropping connections, wasn’t as powerful distance wise, and was prone to interruptions. I have setup a total of 3 (not sure if thats a good number, you be the judge :))and they all displayed one or all these annoying issues.

      Linksys on the other hand was excellent in its range and power. Mind you I used the 54G model with Linksys cards and adapters. Linksys wasn’t perfect by any means (I don’t think any wireless is perfect at this point) but it functioned far better than Netgear (which is surprising since I was always a fan of Netgear). DLink and Asante are also some other names you should try as I heard some excellent things about them.

      There is my limited story/experience with these routers. Hopefully this will help you choose the right one.

      • #3349171

        I haven’t set many up either

        by house ·

        In reply to To answer this question

        I haven’t set up that many myself, but I do troubleshoot about 10-20 different models per day. It’s hard to judge whether or not the issues were due to user error, or if the issues where directly related to the quality of the router. Most of my inquiries and configuration help are resolved over the telephone.

        I guess, in conserdering my options, I can scratch D-Link and Belkin of the list. I’ve had nothing but grief with these routers, but like I said, only through remote help.

        • #3349095

          damn double post

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to I haven’t set many up either

          Sorry everyone.
          I have used a computer before.
          REALLY.

        • #3349094

          played with a few

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to I haven’t set many up either

          Linksys = 3
          d-link = 1 (works well, just don’t “like” it)
          Netgear = 7

          I needed to get some antennas, and linksys was useless. D-link was actually the most help if you need to do this (shocked me). They make a wide range, and all the cables you would need with them.

          One of my projects was to bridge the network out to a remote building that has been a pain in my A$$ with electrical issues because of being industrial. When we fire up our welding machines, we cause a brown out around the lake. (oops). Can you believe that they want US to pay for their upgrade to keep this from happening, when we were there before the houses were?
          Started with two linksys bridges, but AFTER getting them it turns out they won’t connect to each other, only to an access point. Got a netgear at the other end.

          If you want features, your looking a few hundred to get in the highend netgears. All depends on what you want/need. VPN is not on the base models.

      • #3349100

        Another downside of Linksys

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to To answer this question

        They have been known to be flaky when it comes to DSL. It is a real hit and miss if it will even work. Haven’t heard of any problems with Cable.

        My support issue is more if you need more parts or have a problem with the one you already have.

        All Cisco did was buy out the lowend customer base with the linksys, so they can say “if you want X feature, buy our $600 model instead of our $60”.

        • #3349084

          That’s true…

          by salamander ·

          In reply to Another downside of Linksys

          I’ve run into some problems with Linksys and DSL. I’ve had good luck with both Linksys and Netgear on cable…haven’t tried Netgear with wireless, though. Generally, I’ve been happy with both.

        • #3348316

          PPPoE is flaky

          by house ·

          In reply to Another downside of Linksys

          I don’t know who to blame. DSL is not really all that reliable to me (from experience) so I don’t plan on getting a DSL line ever.

          Cable is fairly simple, but there are more outage issues… the problem with DSL is that when you get problems with the service, they are more severe.

        • #3334391

          Problem with residential cable in US

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to PPPoE is flaky

          They block ports. Lots of them.

          DSL just started to do this with port 25, as pointed out in another post, but you can opt-out of the blocking as I did.

          I have had less down time with my DSL over the last three years than I did in the ONE year of cable before that. (cable was faster though).

          When DSL goes down, it is because of a masive ice storm or something. When cable goes down it is because it is down again and will be up before 24 hours of the time you report it or they don’t have to reimburse you for the down time.

          Charter Cable is just awful.

          The only problems I really heard about for DSL is some providers don’t work well with Linksys.

        • #3334193

          DSL

          by house ·

          In reply to Problem with residential cable in US

          Is prone to less, but more serious, problems. Synch problems, authentication errors, server disconnects… these issues are sometimes more serious than a simple wiring or software issue. Maybe the lines in my town suck… yeah, that’s probably it. We provide DSL for Ontario and Quebec, but most of our inquiries are from our local clients.

        • #3350539

          Cable outages

          by doug m. ·

          In reply to Problem with residential cable in US

          The view I took when it came to cable or DSL, is that my phone has always worked for me, whereas cable seemed to always go out a lot. Sure, maybe cable is faster, but I took the reliability of DSL into account when deciding. What good is fast if it isn’t working, right?

      • #3348744

        Gotta agree

        by liame ·

        In reply to To answer this question

        I’m a big netgear fan in general, but I’ve had problems with several wireless hubs /routers dropping connections for no apparent reason.

        And it can be a PITA adding non-netgear nodes (ie centrino notebooks) to a netgear wireless network.

        I’d shy away from netgear for a wireless router at the moment, if you were considering wireless.

        • #3348741

          I’m only considering wireless…

          by house ·

          In reply to Gotta agree

          for future implimentations. I do not use wireless at all in the home right now.

      • #3350535

        netgear

        by doug m. ·

        In reply to To answer this question

        One problem I had with my Netgear, and I don’t know if this is the fault of the product or user error, is that it kept dropping connections when I had DHCP enabled. Once I went with assigned addresses the problem went away. And if you lose your IP address, it makes it much harder to access the router as you have to go thru your browser to configure.

    • #3349109

      How about open source?

      by dave flick ·

      In reply to Home routers – The best of the cheap

      Why not try setting up a linux based firewall? I have used smoothwall and I love it. All you need is an old PC and a couple of NICs. Download the software from smoothwall.org, burn the ISO to CD, pop it in the old PC and boot. The installer detects your hardware and installs the software. The price is perfect and you will end up with a really powerful firewall.

      • #3348935

        IpCop

        by choppit ·

        In reply to How about open source?

        Also consider IPCop, http://www.ipcop.org which I believe originally branched off from the smoothwall project. Added benefits over a commercial router box would be the inclusion of squid cache and Snort IDS. It would be good as a home router/ firewall if you’re OK with having an extra beige box sitting around consuming power.

        • #3348853

          Yeah

          by house ·

          In reply to IpCop

          Apotheon told me about that one… I’m really interested in setting up a ‘real’ box eventually. That is one of the pieces of software that I am looking at playing around with.

        • #3348795

          hmm

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Yeah

          People are referring to me by name. I should double-check my profile to be sure that my name is still in it, then. Heh.

        • #3348768

          Changed

          by house ·

          In reply to hmm

          Sorry about that. No one would have known who I was talking about if you didn’t respond; post editted either way.

        • #3347945

          eh

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Changed

          No biggie.

    • #3348941

      Linksys

      by choppit ·

      In reply to Home routers – The best of the cheap

      I like, use, and implement Linksys kit. I’ve always found it to be stable although every UK model (4) I’ve ever encountered had some issue with PPTP pass-thru not working. I usually have to install US firmware to resolve these problems. Linksys also have a habit of releasing firmware updates and then withdrawing it a few days later without notice. Unfortunately not all the models yet support SNMP logging as I found out when I replaced my BEFW11S4 for a WRT54G. Once working properly though , I never have problems.

    • #3349480

      Give Smoothwall Express a look-see

      by courtpctech ·

      In reply to Home routers – The best of the cheap

      I’ve been using Smoothwall for nearly 3 years (gosh, doesn’t seem that long, though), and have had no problems with it. About the only capability that you’ve mentioned wanting to implement that isn’t directly supported with an “out-of-the-box” installation is remote logging. And, knowing the Smoothwall community, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s been accomplished. You’d have to follow someone else’s instructions to implement it, but if you’re relatively comfortable with *nix, you’d be in good shape. Even such, the Smoothwall forums are a great place to look for info.

      I’m currently using a Smoothwall Express 2.0 Fixes 4 box (fixes 5 is out, but I haven’t installed it yet), and it’s working great. It’s got support for up to 3 nics, one for external (red), one for internal (green), and one for DMZ (orange). DMZ is effectively isolated from each of the other two interfaces, but the firewall will route the traffic as it needs to to get it passed to where it’s going. My box is a 6×86-200 with 64 Mb of ram, a 3 Gb hard disk, and 3 nics. I’m running Snort and a VPN with no problem.

      You’ve also got support for dynamic DNS, so that your network would be available by name on the ‘net. Additionally, you’ve also got a timeserver that you can use to server NTP. It will give you access to the firewall from outside for management purposes, which you can disable…so be careful with that portion. There’s also port forwarding, DMZ pinholes, IP blocking, and other stuff.

      I know, this is a long post, but I figured you might like a rundown of the major features. If you want to add wireless later on, you can go with either a wireless access point (as I’ve done), or a wireless router that can be configured as such. For the budget-conscious with a spare P5-class machine laying around, this is definitely the way to go in my opinion. I’ve even run it on a P5-120 with 32 Mb of RAM. Your biggest issue with less than 64 Mb of RAM is in patching the system to install updates, but even that can be overcome. At any rate, the price is definitely right.

      Just remember, YMMV…..

      Good luck!

    • #3348046

      Snap Gear

      by skull ·

      In reply to Home routers – The best of the cheap

      I have had a D-Link 704 for years, did the firmware upgrades and it has worked for me til this day. If it is not broke, don’t fix it.

      The Snapgear 530se has a nice firewall that is linux driven with a nice GUI, great tech support but you would need to add a switch to hook up a small home network.

      It is twice the price as what you are looking for, but I might consider that my next move from my old, reliable D-Link 704…..but not yet anyway.

    • #3351028

      Bought My New Router

      by house ·

      In reply to Home routers – The best of the cheap

      Linsys WRT54G. It’s a beautiful thing.

      🙂

      • #3350818

        Congratulations!

        by apotheon ·

        In reply to Bought My New Router

        I hope that works out for you. Let us know what you think of it, in detail.

      • #3350810

        Try this

        by dafe2 ·

        In reply to Bought My New Router

        It is a beautiful thing. 🙂

        If don’t already use it (or something else), try this:

        http://www.linklogger.com/

        • #3331358

          Never seen that one…

          by house ·

          In reply to Try this

          But I’ve read quite a bit about this

          http://www.batbox.org/wrt54g-linux.html

          The onlly reason that I chose this router is it’s flexibility. I bought it, grabbed the latest flash immediately, and haven’t had a single problem. I’ll count the days before my first power cycle… hopefully I will never have to do it. 🙂

          * I’ve read some scattered reviews of the various ‘firmware’ and ‘ram drive’ (for lack of a better term) hacks for the router. Is there one in particular that (is)…

          you use, have used, unstable, stable, can damage the box… any recommendations and warnings would be much appreciated. 🙂

          Right now I’m looking at Sveasoft’s Alchemy 6rc5. Any comments?

        • #3331318

          Should have known :-)

          by dafe2 ·

          In reply to Never seen that one…

          ROFL………I’m still laughing my hole off at the penguin & the router……

          Actually, I use that same router in my office at home with the latest firmware & that’s it.
          I added the monitor for it’s ability to send me SMTP alerts.

          The AP’s range works to my advantage…..you’d have to be on my doorstep to ‘mess arround’.

          I don’t use (or believe in) software firewalls of ANY sort & haven’t had any problems with this setup. There’s a CISCO PIX on the network just in case………but it hasn’t seen any action. I only have 3 ports open. LOL

          So, all I ever did is set it up, flash the ROM, secured it & let it gather dust on the bookcase.

          IMO, I don’t think you’ll be doing too many power cycles as it seems to be a very reliable product.

          Now that I think about it…..a lot of the guys prefer this router over others for VPN setups. I guess they had a lot of problems with D-Links – They don’t play well with CISCO SOHO’s. (Wonder why?)

        • #3331317

          I’m not going to push it then

          by house ·

          In reply to Should have known :-)

          Unless I get some solid feedback, there is no point in being the guinee pig.

          We are a major Internet/Telecom provider, so I think that I’ll grab one of our gateways and play around with it too… don’t know why I’m still paying for a POTS line, my internet connection never goes down. I’m in a “we pay our taxes” cable node – heh.

          ps – Is Link Logger supported with the factory firmware? Why do I think that I read somewhere that it is not supported with the Linksys factory OS? Maybe I should just shut up and try it.

        • #3331314

          Absolutely……..here’s a sample:

          by dafe2 ·

          In reply to I’m not going to push it then

          I think I just just edited my post at the same time…..I remembered some of our guys use this for VPN connections as well.

          ************************************************

          The public IP was removed of course 😉

          Link Logger Inbound Connection Attempt Alert Mar 12, 2005 19:48:49.943 204.1.226.228 : 54410 >>> : 21

          Link Logger Inbound Connection Attempt Alert Mar 12, 2005 19:48:50.013 204.1.226.228 : 54410 >>> : 23

          Link Logger Inbound Connection Attempt Alert Mar 12, 2005 19:48:50.453 204.1.226.228 : 54410 >>> : 21

          Link Logger Inbound Connection Attempt Alert Mar 12, 2005 19:48:50.473 204.1.226.228 : 54410 >>> : 23

          Link Logger Inbound Connection Attempt Alert Mar 12, 2005 19:48:50.964 204.1.226.228 : 54410 >>> : 21

          Link Logger Inbound Connection Attempt Alert Mar 12, 2005 19:48:51.004 204.1.226.228 : 54410 >>> : 23

          Link Logger Inbound Connection Attempt Alert Mar 12, 2005 19:48:51.475 204.1.226.228 : 54410 >>> : 21

          Link Logger Inbound Connection Attempt Alert Mar 12, 2005 19:48:51.515 204.1.226.228 : 54410 >>> : 23

        • #3331312

          hmmm

          by house ·

          In reply to Absolutely……..here’s a sample:

          Why does it not seem to be working for me…

          Let me get the facts;
          – you have the same router
          – you are not using 3rd party firmware
          – you have the latest firmware from Linksys (3.03.6)

          I’ll read a bit more on it, but I’m positive that this is not supported. Are you sure that you are not using Alchemy? I’ve checked all of my settings…

          f**k it – I’m going to work.

        • #3331203

          …………….weird

          by dafe2 ·

          In reply to Absolutely……..here’s a sample:

          Don’t know what to say…………I did some checking too….& I found the references you were talking about. The new Linklogger rev supports the out of the box setup.

          I haven’t tweaked the ROM at all other than flash the ROM. (Too damn lazy to do this at home 🙂

          I (know) you did all the things we’d ask each other to do, so now I’m stumped???????

          Actually your lucky you went to work……..my wife just came in and gave me ‘the look’.. LOL

          Lemme know how you make out………..or if I can assist

        • #3331191

          ha ha ha ha ha ha

          by house ·

          In reply to Absolutely……..here’s a sample:

          * It looks like they took down the hack, but see the second link for my screenshot.

          http://www.sveasoft.com/modules/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=61

          Now, I think I will stick with my factory flash.

          If you don’t see what I am talking about… look for the black text near the top. I haven’t seen that in years. That’s what they get for messin’ with the GPL. heh

          ]:)

          I’ve never laughed so hard at something so lame… hahahah

          I got a screenshot of this one.

          http://www.dark.unitz.ca/~brouse/the_notorious_FAT/sveasoft_hack.png

    • #3350579

      Netgear

      by doug m. ·

      In reply to Home routers – The best of the cheap

      I personally use a Netgear WIFI router (FM114P)with a built in firewall and it also acts as a print server, which comes in very handy. Don’t get the cheap ones they sell at the local stores, go with something like their FWG114P model which does both B and G WIFI. I have the B version which is ok too. Fast, reliable, good tech. support as well. Has a 3 year warranty. Also supports VPN. Costs roughly $156.

      • #3350549

        rule of thumb

        by apotheon ·

        In reply to Netgear

        Never get a Netgear switch or router that retails for less than $100. Netgear’s low-end stuff is crap. I’m a little iffy on the midrange equipment, too: at my datacenter job, we just installed a Cisco 56-port switch and moved a fiber connection from one of the Netgear switches to the Cisco. We discovered that disconnecting the fiber from the Netgear switch caused some huge problems, and actually crashed the BigIron switch the in the datacenter. Nobody saw that coming.

        Yes, the Netgear crashed the BigIron. It’s that bad. We’ll be getting another Cisco switch so that if we ever have a need to move the fiber (such as hardware failure in the Cisco) we won’t have to plug into the Netgear to keep ourselves in operation. Suffice to say: I’m wary of Netgear.

        • #3350537

          Netgear vs Cisco

          by doug m. ·

          In reply to rule of thumb

          Well yeah I would agree that Cisco is probably better if you’re talking about a business rather than a home environment. But the mid-range Netgear stuff seems to work fine for the average home user with a handful of machines connected.

        • #3350531

          indeed

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Netgear vs Cisco

          Obviously, the point of this discussion isn’t mid- to high-end business hardware. I might have gotten a mite pedantic, but my point is simply that I’m very wary of Netgear because their low-end stuff is crap and I’ve had issues with the mid-range gear that really should not happen with quality equipment.

      • #3350470

        Either way…

        by house ·

        In reply to Netgear

        I bought myself a Linksys WRT54G. I love it. I could use a little more control as far as a firewall is concerned, but I can always play around with 3rd party firmware projects.

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