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  • #2182560

    How to find a job?

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    by shaunbed ·

    Hi,
    My name is Shaun Bedingfield and I have been programming nonprofessionally
    for over 16 years (I am 26 now). I know a myriad of technologies and feel
    that I am very qualified to do almost any software development related task.
    However, I can’t find work because of a lack of industry experience.
    I have been applying for jobs for a couple years now (yes, really) and I
    am always turned down with the response that I don’t have enough work
    experience. I would hate to leave an industry that I have been in love with
    most of my life but I just can’t get work. I have tried everything and
    anything all the way to begging and pleading.
    I am sure that I am not alone with this problem and I was wondering how
    others with little or none (I technically have 4 years) of industry
    experience go about finding work. It seems to me like a chicken and the egg
    problem with no solution.
    What am I doing wrong?

    Sincerely,
    Shaun Bedingfield

    Below is my resume (updated 7/11)

    Shaun Bedingfield MCAD for .NET
    19606 Cottage Park Circle, Houston, TX 77094 | 281-579-3549 | 832-483-7858 | shaunbed@swbell.net

    Software Engineer/Architect/Developer

    Strong programmer, software analyst and designer possessing a lifelong passion for making software and IT work. Skilled designer and analyst who designs software using an incremental approach which manages risk while ensuring a stable and workable product throughout development. Responsive developer who uses frequent user feedback and requirements gathering skills to ensure that the right software is developed and delivered. Experienced trainer who can work with staff to ensure that the full benefit of the software package can be materialized and mentor other programmers to help improve developer productivity and quality. Technically knowledgeable developer who can help insure that products are secure and utilize current technology to maximize business advantage.

    Certifications/Degrees
    ———————-

    B.S. Computer Science (University of Texas at Dallas)
    GPA 3.667

    MCAD For .NET (Windows and Internet w/ SQL Server focus)

    Industry Experience
    ———-

    2/05 – Present Designing an Access database for Southwest Memorial Hermann Hospital
    (Personal contract)
    Description: Designed and implemented a system to Analyze Stroke Treatment in Access.
    This system was designed as part of an initiative to improve stroke treatment at the
    hospital. The system was designed to allow easy entry of stroke data and flexible
    analysis. Training was provided to assure that the staff could fully utilize and
    benefit from the program.

    Skills used: SQL, VBA, Access, ActiveX Controls, Staff training, Risk Management,
    Incremental Development, Prototyping, User Interface Design, Testing, ADO

    1/05 – Present Ben Taub General Hospital – Volunteer DBA
    Description: Provided reporting and maintenance for the volunteer database

    Skills used: Access, Data cleaning, SQL, Data analysis, SQL Training

    7/02 – 11/02 Neovox – Software Engineer
    Description: Helping to deliver data access over cellular and voice connections

    Skills used: SQL, SQL Server 2000, MySQL, PHP, Java, .NET, C#, IIS, HTML, ASP.NET, ADO.NET,
    Nuance, Telephony Hardware, VoiceXML, XML

    1/02 – 3/04 Officemax – Sales
    Description: Selling products to customer

    Skills used: Customer Service, In-depth knowledge of hardware and software products

    5/00 – 7/01 University of Texas at Dallas – Research Assistant
    Description: Mentoring Computer Science Students and later helping to test a program
    for collecting telecommunications metrics.

    Skills used: Regular Expressions, Java, VBA, Excel, Student mentoring

    1/98 – 3/00 Texas Instruments – Student Employee
    Description: Building a UI for a program used for automatic test code generation.

    Skills used: Regular Expressions, Incremental Development, Constant User Involvement
    and Feedback, C/C++, Solaris, Language Parsing Skills, TCL/TK, Network Deployment,
    Prototyping

    Additional Skills
    ————-

    VB.NET, UML, Object Oriented Analysis And Design, Design Patterns, SOAP, WSDL, COM,
    .NET COM Interoperability, COM+, XSLT, Windows Internals, x86 Assembly, Windows Security,
    Visual Basic, Requirements Gathering, Active Directory, Penetration Testing,
    Common Security Vulnerabilities, Reflection

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    Replies
    • #3186595

      Get yourself some help with the resume

      by tony hopkinson ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      I suppose there are stylistic differences between the US and the UK. But a few of points strike me straight off.

      You seem to have far more content on what you’ve read than what you’ve done.

      Draw a clear line between your experience in work and previous.

      Be a bit more ‘business’ oriented in describing what you achieved, and then mention then technologies you used to achieve the ‘business’ requirement. I understand what you are saying, but that level of technical detail is stratospheric as far as HR and recruiters go.
      You sound a lot like me in my youth a coder’s coder, but in the current business environment that can be hard to sell. Save the technospeak for the interview with people who understand it and couch your experience in what it did for the end users of your code.
      Best O’ luck.

      • #3186586

        Get yourself a whole new approach

        by amcol ·

        In reply to Get yourself some help with the resume

        As a hiring manager I would only read about one quarter of this resume before chucking it. You wouldn’t stand a chance of getting an interview with me.

        That’s one of the big things you’re missing. Your resume says it all…you have no idea what your goal is.

        Listen carefully…YOUR GOAL IS TO GET A JOB. What your resume shows is that you have far more interest in displaying your knowledge and the type of person you are. NO ONE CARES. I’m sure you come across in person the same way you come across in this resume, and you need to change that fast.

        No one can conduct a resume or job search clinic in a forum like this but here’s just a few constructive thoughts. You put your experience down at the bottom…put it where it belongs, up front. You talk about a few of the things you did and give no clue what value those accomplishments provide, plus you use a lot of passive words like “designed” and “participated” and “provided”. What exactly did you personally do, and how did it provide BUSINESS value? Delete the entire section labeled “Knowledge” as well as the one labeled “Character”…we’re all sure you’re very knowledgeable and quite a character but no one hires you for that.

        Think of a job interview as a sales call. You’re the product, and your goal is to make the sale (get the job). How does talking about what you know or what you’re like accomplish your goal? That’s right…it doesn’t.

        You’re being told you don’t have enough experience. That’s a kind way of brushing you off. It’s all about the way you’re coming across. My son got a job right out of college with an academic background and level of accomplishment similar to yours after taking just one interview. He recently changed jobs after two years…took two interviews in one week and was hired. I could quote hundreds more success stories just like that, people no different in terms of knowledge and ability from you. It’s all about your approach.

        Spend some money on a resume service and a career counselor. You need a little hands on professional help with this, more than you can get in a forum like this one.

        • #3186563

          Not too familiar with US practice

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Get yourself a whole new approach

          What was with the character section, in the UK it would put you in the floor level file cabinet in my experience.
          Agree with you with in the main the though, resume came across as well read amateur.

        • #3183786

          It must be taught at MBA

          by nomen nescio ·

          In reply to Get yourself a whole new approach

          Now I know why I work in the office full of people whose primary skill is to sell themselves and spend most of the time selling themselves rather than working.
          It is something you managers actually require.
          Must be the same course HR is giving to all of you IT managers.

        • #3183734

          =new management skill

          by pivert ·

          In reply to It must be taught at MBA

          I know what you mean. They hire someone to assist you and before you know it they are selling themselves and networking/sliming all the levels above them. And before you know it, they are too busy with their own agenda instead of the project they were hired to do. It’s the consultant-approach: it’s no longer important what you know or do but how much wind you make. Just give me a lousy resume of someone who’s interested in the job over a clean(ed) cv with lots of hot air. HR should go over these resumes with someone who’s technically skilled. The standard tech-geek is still a nerd so they spend more time talking bits and bytes and they are basically not interested in the whole “sell yourself”-process.

        • #3183633

          Change your Nationality to Middle Eastern

          by drumit ·

          In reply to =new management skill

          Let’s get real here folks. Fortune 500s are no longer hiring American programmers or training their staff in new technologies. All but management positions in IT are now taken by foreign consulting firms. The bottom line is if you’re American, look for a job in a different industry. Good luck.

        • #3176278

          Yup

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Change your Nationality to Middle Eastern

          Listen to this advice and ensure there are opening for those that know better. Yes some companies outsource, but, there are still many job opportunities right here. Not all jobs are outsourceable.

        • #3189695

          HR

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to =new management skill

          Anyone who understands the job search process would try to find out who the hiring manager is prior to dealing with HR. In general, once the hiring manager decide that they want you for the job, HR’s job is to make it happen and not to decide how qualified an individual is. HR knows HR, but are clueless about anything outside of HR.

        • #3183942

          Office full of “team players”

          by too old for it ·

          In reply to It must be taught at MBA

          “Now I know why I work in the office full of people whose primary skill is to sell themselves and spend most of the time selling themselves rather than working.”

          Kinda like trying to work in a frat house on Friday night, isn’t it?

        • #3189735

          Re: Skills

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to It must be taught at MBA

          Anyone who understands the job market and the hiring process understands that selling yourself is one of the most valuable skills you can have. In reality if you can’t sell yourself, what is supposed to motivate a potential employer to even consider you? Soft skills are a major plus in many industries. If one wants to work in isolation they may not be so important, but most have some level of ambition to excel.

        • #3184024

          Poorly designed resumes

          by Anonymous ·

          In reply to Get yourself a whole new approach

          “As a hiring manager I would only read about one quarter of this resume before chucking it.” – amcol

          This happens all to often with IT people when applying for positions. It’s one thing to know your stuff, it’s another to know how to curb all that techno speak when sending in resumes.

          As amcol pointed out, HR people are not technically minded and wouldn’t understand if you’re the right person for the job.

          What you must remember above all is that your resume get’s you the interview anhd the interview get’s you the job. So if you don’t get interviews then you know that your resume is the problem.

          Here’s a link to a fairly recent resume of mine, about four months old now but it was enough to get me four interviews in one month and two jobs. 🙂

          http://www.mclarendigital.com/Files/AngusMcLarenCV.pdf

          Hope it helps you, or anyone else, out.

        • #3176087

          Re: Poorly designed resumes

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Poorly designed resumes

          I think there are differences in hiring practices between the U.S. and Australia. Most hiring managers don’t have the time or inclination to read through a 5 page resume. As a general practice a resume should be no longer than 2 pages long and should only go longer if you’ve been in the workforce long enough to justify more than two pages. Some experts will disagree with this, but the majority would support it. As stated the purpose of the resume is to get the candidate an interview. That means having some punch right at the beginning of the resume, enough that the reviewer will want to continue reading.

        • #3176086

          Supplement

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Re: Poorly designed resumes

          As a supplementary note, employers are generally not concerned with what you expect to get out of being employed with them. They want to know what you have to offer that will contribute to their bottom line. Keep in mind that when you do get to the interview that it is a two way process. The employer is trying to determine if you’ll be a good fit for the company and you should be trying to determine if the employer is a good fit for you.

        • #3184007

          Agreed

          by chaos-x ·

          In reply to Get yourself a whole new approach

          Amcol is right, you need to understand what it is you’re after. You want a job. So you have to look at why people offer jobs. It might seem pretty simple but it’s amazing how many people forget that you get hired to help a company make a profit. Of course you’re trying to make a profit too(we call that a pay check).

          Show how you can help the business. Lots of techies out there but not all have jobs. A few years ago when the dot com burst, IT became more muture and business like in a hurry. Don’t fight it, just show why you’d be good for the business.

      • #3169523

        stay away from negatives

        by rik.butcher ·

        In reply to Get yourself some help with the resume

        i wouldnt use the word “non-Professional” at all or that you’re a volunteer DBA. if you’re doing the job – to me, that’s experience – and you’re doing a DBA job. i’m in a similar situation except i’m developing in a department that’s clerical, so, technically i’m not in IT. but technically people are using my programs daily – so,for myself i had to put things in a positive light. Spin them if you will and i think that’s what you need to do. What you’ve got is impressive. just make it easy reading and positive for the HR folks and Recruiters

        • #3183758

          Reply To: How to find a job?

          by shaunbed ·

          In reply to stay away from negatives

          In Houston, marketing nonprofessional experience as professional is a quick way to get a ‘thank you, now leave.. please’ response. I might be better terming it hobbyist developer but that sounds little better. Watching people strangle 16 years into 2 or 3 is truly amazing and not merited. Most programmers today can’t say they remember when programmers had to write Windows programs in DOS, that they actually know the algorithms behind graphics programming, or could design a Windows-type system from the ground on a non-GUI based OS. I do agree on the DBA part though.

        • #3183546

          You’re twenty-six, right?

          by bobbabcock ·

          In reply to Reply To: How to find a job?

          I’m thirty-seven and had a Commodore 64, a Sinclair, won the junior high-school science fair and wrote basic and logo and all that nonsense way back when before you were even born.

          But it won’t show up on my resume.

          Unless you’re one of the Olsen twins, you can’t claim experience in your field back to age ten. In your case, you would have had to have been at MIT at the time for it to be of any value.

          How about focusing on a 3.6 GPA in computer science? Not too bad. Meritorious , ranked accomplishments are very important in staffing decisions. You’re knowledgable, but can you solve problems for business? That’s what’s wanted, that you don’t demonstrate.

          In your correspondence on this board, you don’t sound too comfortable in your skin, either. Mature confidence in your abilities begins when you cease to let everyone know about it before they ask. Your lashing out at “those that can’t “see the matrix” if you will allow the cliche, says to me that you can do these things, maybe well, but haven’t found how they help you in the real world yet (read: hobbyist). If you can write programs in DOS, great. If you know graphics algorhythms, super: when you’re trapped on an island troubleshooting a system from 1990, that might be a great skillset to have (I can tie knots and build a fire). BUt unless this bedrock of knowledge is built upon, unless you can build systems for salesmen, marketers, lawyers, executives and the such that can barely dial their cell phones or set-up a spam filter, you’re just a cranky kid with no “practical” experience.

          Saying in an interview that you can’t believe people call themselves programmers when they can’t get down to your granular level is a sure way to end it. Odds are, the guy who you’re sitting across the desk from can’t either, or hasn’t seen the need to since you were, well, ten years old.

          My advice to you? TEACH!!!

        • #3183528

          Reply To: How to find a job?

          by shaunbed ·

          In reply to You’re twenty-six, right?

          I agree that any early experience I had is worth very little to employers.

          I disagree with your implied comment that I can’t do anything ‘real world’ with my knowledge. I definitely can.

          Your view represents the real problem with in any way intimating you knew anything about programming before you hit college. People don’t like to feel like they are being looked down at and a lot of people who have just been through college like to feel they are as qualified as someone who taught themselves to program 10 years before they ever hit college.

          There is a difference, however, and while no, I can not say that I am a lead blah-blah-blah, it does say that I am probably better than the average college graduate. How much better.. well, that will be quantified by real experience.

          As things currently stand, someone who has had a job since college and is 26 can say that they are a far better programmer than me and I can’t really challenge their claim. I do not have that type of experience. To be honest, I kind of resent this implied inferiority (as I resent your implication that I don’t know anything about real programming) but until I finally do get a job, this is the world I live in.

          If I have in anyway insulted you or yours, I am sorry. However, I do not feel that I am totally incompetent. I feel that I am very competent if given the opportunity.

        • #3183477

          competence isn’t the issue

          by sbmknight ·

          In reply to Reply To: How to find a job?

          I don’t think competence is your issue, but perhaps arrogance is. The posters here are fellow IT people looking at nothing more than your original post and your resume – and giving you wonderful, real-world feedback on what might be holding you back from getting an interview (or getting the job once interviewed). yet your responses to these posts seem rather defensive. I say, lose the defensive posture, admit that you are on the same plane with the rest of us common mortals, and listen to what your peers (and IT managers) are saying.

          For what it’s worth, the biggest thing that’s helped me in my IT career has been my strong customer service background, more so than my actual IT skills. IT people already have reputations as being difficult and too technical for the average end-user; if you can demonstrate how easy you are to work with in your cover letters, and emphasis how your experience has helped your customers and their businesses in your resume, you might stand a better chance.

          Good luck.

        • #3183944

          Reply To: How to find a job?

          by shaunbed ·

          In reply to competence isn’t the issue

          This was a response to a post saying that I was incompetent and should give up or so I understand it. I was not intending to attack everyone at large but I feel that I do have the right to resent such criticism.

        • #3176033

          “if given the opportunity”

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Reply To: How to find a job?

          One thing all job seekers have to be familar with, and intimately so is humility. The potential employer has the job opening, and you want it. In all of the posts “that I’ve read” the only intent was to give advice on how you can make yourself more marketable. Your response to Bobbabcock to some extent solidifies his observation. You are very defensive when all he is doing is documenting his observation. In reality he may be expressing what potential employers are observing also, but of course they won’t provide you that level of feedback after reading your resume. They just won’t call you in for an interview. Most of us don’t want to hear anything about what can be perceived as a shortcoming on our part, but it is reality. We all have room for professional (and personal) growth. Either accept it now so that you may move ahead, or accept it later when you realize that you need to take a different approach to getting that phone call. As you read the responses here, there is very little reason why you need to rationlize anything (except in cases of “obvious” personal attacks). Your response should be limited to thanks for your input and I’ll take it under advisement. Whether you actually do or not is up to you, but keep in mind that most responders to your post are only offering you advice based on their experiences in the work force and in some cases as hiring managers.

        • #3184119

          selling work

          by admin17 ·

          In reply to stay away from negatives

          I am still in college and constantly looking for experience opportunities. On my resume, I have all experience listed under the simple header “Experience” instead of “Professional Experience” or the like. Professional Experience conveys that you received compensation for the services performed whereas Experience simply conveys the fact that you have the knowledge gained from experiencing certain situations, projects, and/or technologies.

          Tying it all in, under my Experience section, I have listed non-paid internships that I feel make a contribution overall to my resume. I think that you are caught up in the fact that your experience is not necessarily Professional (you are compensated) in nature. Just list it as Experience and go on your merry way.

        • #3184531

          Indeed never

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to stay away from negatives

          put anything you haven’t got on your cv.
          If you are doing a cv to hit a recruitement site. Get the keywords in it and be fairly general.
          The trick is to get contacted, then you can use your inherrent people skills to jump through the hoops and over the hurdles, of the obatcle race known as ‘Giz a job’.
          non-prfessional = amateur, not something a hirer wants to see on a cv. Unpaid, voluntary or extra-curricular are much more accurate ways of describing such effort.
          The other classic let downs are spilling mestakes, poor grammar and bad layout and the real killer too many pages.
          3 A4 pages maximum.
          Send them something that looks like a russian novel and it will be straight in the bin.

        • #3190219

          I disagree about brevity – in the public sector

          by mmcdonal ·

          In reply to Indeed never

          A short resume is good in the private sector. But it is a different process in the public sector. There they use HR bean counters who screen resumes and pass them along to the people doing the hiring. If you don’t have enough beans, you don’t get contacted.
          IF you are looking in the public sector (and that includes education) then 10 pages is a good length. I got an interview within a month of submitting a 10 page resume and got the job 10 minutes after the interview, and I had no formal experience at the time as a techie. I had a very experienced fried whose resume kept getting bounced out of education until I told him what one education hiring manager told me: “If it is one or two pages, I feel like they are wasting my time.” We bumped his up to around 9 pages, and he is now the IT Director for a very prestigious university medical school in Baltimore.
          Know your audience.

        • #3190100

          Generalizations

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to I disagree about brevity – in the public sector

          I am sure there are exceptions to anything. When I was in the public sector I wouldn’t read anything over 2 pages, because that is the standard. If I received a 3 page resume, I would try and determine in the first 2 pages whether they were qualified, but I do know that some HR folks don’t even do that. Many resumes over 3 pages are quickly shuffled to the circular file.

          When I was job hunting and not having much luck with the Ontario government, I spoke with a friend who is a manager in that government. She told me the HR screeners focus on the cover letter. They let the hiring managers review the resume, but if you want to get past them, make sure you have a very specific cover letter that says very explicitly that you have the skills asked for in the ad. Generic cover letters do not get you an interview. I was successful in getting an interview – 5 out of 500 applicants.

          James

        • #3176017

          Ontario

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Generalizations

          I’m assuming Canada and not Ontario, CA. This is indicative of geograhical/cultural differences in the hiring process. In the U.S. (and MMCDonal) did an excellent job of distinguishing between the two. Here, in the public sector, they often use software to screen out potential candidates based on keywords found in their resume. Once that is done, then the hiring manager has the responsibility of screening any resumes that were flagged by whatever software program they use. Based on that alone you want to document in your resume pretty much every job you’ve ever had and everything you’ve ever done to increase the possibility of getting your resume looked at.

    • #3186583

      Formatting

      by jmgarvin ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      I agree with the others. Your resume needs help. You have a TON of content that isn’t very meaningful.

      Keep it simple. Start with an objective and then move into education and experience. If you really must included it, save the fluff for the cover letter.

    • #3186579

      New resume

      by shaunbed ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      Ok, I can understand where you are coming from. I am very technical so it is hard to see my resume as fluff but..

      Anyway, this is a slightly redone resume please post comments.
      Shaun Bedingfield
      Software Engineer/Architect/Developer
      MCAD for .NET

      281-579-3549 (available almost all the time)
      832-483-7858 (when not available at home)

      shaunbed@swbell.net

      Intent
      ———

      I am interested in all areas of software development and have extensive knowledge of many technologies. I am looking for any potential opportunities in your company and am very open on salary requirements.

      Certifications/Degrees
      ———————-

      B.S. Computer Science (University of Texas at Dallas)
      GPA 3.667

      MCAD For .NET (Windows and Internet w/ SQL Server focus)

      Industry Experience – 4 years
      ———-

      2/05 – Present Designing an Access database for Southwest memorial hospital
      – Built a system to store and analyze stroke treatment
      – This system is part of an initiative to improve stroke treatment at the hospital

      1/05 – Present Ben Taub General Hospital – Volunteer DBA
      – Maintained the volunteer database which is used to store volunteer hours and donations
      – Provided reporting for the database to allow the volunteer coordinator to track volunteering

      7/02 – 11/02 Neovox – Software Engineer
      – Worked on a system to deliver access to data over cellular and voice connection
      – Helped provide alternative web based access to customer data

      1/02 – 3/04 Officemax – Sales
      – Assisted customers with technical purchase decisions
      – Helped maintain the appearance of the store
      – Helped ensure that customers were promptly serviced at check out

      5/00 – 7/01 University of Texas at Dallas – Research Assistant
      – Helped test a program used to collect telecom metrics
      – Mentored Computer Science students

      1/98 – 3/00 Texas Instruments – Student Employee
      – Provided a user accessible interface to a program for automatic test code generation
      – Deployed the test code generation program over Solaris

      Knowledge (Not comprehensive)
      ———

      Over 15 years professional and nonprofessional programming experience

      Over 10 years professional and nonprofessional experience of the Windows Platform including in depth knowledge of system internals and security issues

      Familiar with object oriented development and common design patterns and principles

      Knowledge of Relational Databases especially Sql Server

      Knowledge of Component and Service based development technologies

      Knowledge of IIS(Microsoft) based web development

      Heavily read on industry literature and issues

      Experience mentoring programmers and the ability to write self-documenting, maintainable code

      • #3186561

        Better, but let me point you to

        by jmgarvin ·

        In reply to New resume

      • #3186547

        Better, but now too far the other way

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to New resume

        See what you fellow countrymen say, but my successful cv in the UK

        Goes
        Contact
        Education/Training
        Skill summary
        (Just a straight list list of the skills keywords searched for on recruitment sites
        Career
        Most recent and then back. The more recent the more detailed.
        Biz speak description.
        Subset of Skills used in this employment.. Technical and managerial.

        Mentoring is a ver good thing, not the last line on your resume.

        No intent, no character assessment, no hobbies. If they want any of that they ring me up and or interview me.
        It’s all about impressions, for instance

        Knowledge (Not comprehensive)
        Do you mean you don’t have comprehensive knowledge or it’s not a comprehensive list of your knowledge.
        I’ll take a wild guess, but that shouldn’t be an option you allow me on reading the resume.

      • #3180026

        still needs a little touching up

        by itgirli ·

        In reply to New resume

        I really hope that’s not the way you hand/email/fax it to people. If you want, you can peer mail me and I’ll send you my latest and you can see some of the differences.

      • #3179882

        One observation

        by maxwell edison ·

        In reply to New resume

        Under your “intent”.

        Career Objective might be better.

        Career Objective: I am seeking a position where I can apply my broad knowledge of software development to make an immediate contribution to the needs of the firm.

        And never mention salary issues in a resume.

        • #3183529

          Avoid the use of “I”, “me”, etc…

          by oldmainframer ·

          In reply to One observation

          Hard to do this without sounding stilted, but leave the “I am” off the front of the sentence.

          It’s assumed that *you* are the one seeking, looking, doing, etc.

          So, never say “I developed…” just “Developed…”

      • #3183673

        Reply To: How to find a job?

        by pickleman ·

        In reply to New resume

        As somebody has already pointed out to you, the best thing you could do is get professional help with your resume.

        I don’t know if it’s just because you posted it here in plain text format, or if it actually looks like that even in your word processor, but basically it’s a complete mess…it has no proper resume structure, and is full of grammatical errors.

        First tip: in your “Intent” section, you have to completely rephrase it. When you say you’re looking for “any potential opportunities” and you’re “open to any salary”, it basically makes you sound inexperienced, unprofessional, and a whiner. Nobody wants someone who’s inexperienced. Nobody wants someone who’s unprofessional, and certainly nobody wants a whiner. Are you REALLY willing to take “any” salary”? If they offered you $5.75 per hour, would you take it? What if they wanted to hire you on a six month contract and offered you $1000 for the whole thing? Would you take it? Only if you’re a complete fool. So then if you truly wouldn’t take “any” salary, why would you put that on your resume?

        Second tip: use proper structure. When you say “2/05 – Present Designing an Access database”, you’ve failed to separate the date from the venture. There should be a new line immediately after the date:
        “2/05 – Present
        Designing an Access database…”
        This way the information comes across much more clearly, much easier to understand, and could easily make the difference between having your resume read from start to finish, versus having it put into the recycling bin after 5 seconds.

        Third tip: Know your grammar and use it correctly, especially when it comes to hyphenating things that should be hyphenated:
        “object-oriented”
        “IIS-based”
        “in-depth”
        “Heavily-read”

        Fourth tip: be consistent. If in one case you say “SQL”, then you have to say “SQL” in all subsequent cases. It looks very sloppy when you say “SQL” on one line, and then “Sql” on another.

        Fifth tip: when listing your phone number, don’t say you’re “almost” available. Nobody wants to know that they MIGHT reach you or they might not. They want to know that if they’re going to call you for a job offer, that they’re going to get through to you. If you want to list more than one phone number, that’s fine, but list them as “home” and “cell”, as opposed to “call me on my second number if you can’t reach me on my first one because I might be out partying”.

        Sixth tip: know your profession. Are you a software engineer? An architect? A developer? You may think of yourself as all three, but a potential employer will read that portion of your resume and think to himself, “this guy can’t even make up his mind on what he is…”
        Pick one, and stick to it.

        Seventh tip: put your experience before your certifications/education, especially when your work experience is more impressive than your certifications/education.

        Eighth tip: get rid of the “not comprehensive” descriptor in your knowledge section. Nobody wants to know that you only know a little bit of this and a little bit of that. If your knowledge is not comprehensive, why are you making such a bif deal of it? An employer wants to know what you can do well, as opposed to what you can do half-assed.

        Final tip: as was already mentioned, get professional help on how to compile an outstanding resume. You can either go to a resume service, or you can get yourself some resume software which has all kinds of tips, templates, and useful information.

        The resume is (in most cases) the very first impression you make to a potential employer. If that first impression is a lousy one, you won’t get a chance to make another.

      • #3183612

        New Resume

        by iseriesjunkie ·

        In reply to New resume

        You get what you pay for…get help with the resume. It still reads like a salesman and not a tech.

        If you insist on doing it yourself: Remove the titles and the MCAD for .NET after your name. Let them decide where they can use a person of your experience and talent. The titles say I’m only willing to do these jobs. The MCAD you have listed under Certificates/Degrees.

        Get rid of the intent section. You intend to get a job. Tell them what kind of job you are looking for-Programmer, software engineer, DBA, etc. Tailor this to the company or industry you are targeting. Example: I am interested in exploring opportunities in software development with a Fortune 500 company.

        Get rid of the GPA-after you’re out of school, it doesn’t matter as much.

        Don’t list dates or time served, just accomplishments & experience.

        Don’t list job titles, sales =>software engineer=>volunteer DBA sounds like BS.

        Get rid of the professional vs non-professional-it’s all experience whereever you got it.

        Loose the reading list-experience is what counts. List the hardware and software you are familiar with-don’t fudge, they will know.

        When you have a resume that says you are a professional, contact the U of Texas job recruiter and see if they can help you to break into the biz. The hard part is getting them to look past the first few lines. Keep in mind that a job doing only programming is almost non-existent (and boring) in today’s market. A person who is well rounded and can cover a lot of different IT areas is more desirable, cost effective, and easier to sell to the CFO.

        • #3184116

          What?!

          by admin17 ·

          In reply to New Resume

          I agree with the first two sections (removing titles and intent) but the next three are a bit more questionable to me. With a GPA as good as 3.66 and only being out of college a few years, I would say leave it in. As to dates, it goes to show continuity in work and is a testament to the fact that you have been able to get and keep a job and not piss your managers off along the way. Titles are a good, quick way to describe what you do. I would say, though, that I would revisit what you call the position (Non-professional Volunteer Snow Cone Maker Half-Assistant doesn’t sound as good as Assistant Snow Cone Developer). I know the example’s far fetched, but you get the idea. I have another post in this thread about how to present your experience on your resume.

          Also, feel free to visit mine at http://www.seanjohn.org/resume.pdf to get ideas to whatever. Feel free to contact me, too.

        • #3175981

          Points

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to New Resume

          I would recommend leaving the GPA. 3.66 is respectable and worthy of special mention. If his GPA were under 3.0 then I would say don’t mention it unless asked.
          Dates, I think are crucial on a resume. Employers want to be able to guage some degree of loyalty based on how long a candidate has stayed in a particular position. If they’ve changed jobs often, it should generally indicate upward mobility.
          Titles are an indicator of experiences and generally should be part of the resume.

      • #3175986

        re: New Resume

        by vltiii ·

        In reply to New resume

        OK, here are some of my thoughts:

        -You don’t need to list MCAD in the contact section. It’s listed under education. This is redundant and a waste of the reviewers time.

        -For contact numbers, list as primary and alternate. You may also want to list your home address. You also may want to consider dummying that information out before posting in public forums, unless you expect to get some nibbles. Not bad from a networking perspective, but not good from a privacy concerns perspective. It’s up to you.

        Your intent is too broad. You need to zero in on specifically what it is you want to do. If you have an interest in more than one area, write more than one resume, one for each area of interest and taylor the resume for that position.
        -Change the heading from “Intent” to Objective.
        -Under Objective, state what you can do for the organization.
        -Drop any mention of salary. Salary should not come up until you’ve been identified as a candidate for a position, generally in the form of a job offer. When you do get to the point that you’re discussing salary you should have already done research to identify what the position pays (or at least a budgeted range) in contrast to your experience level. You don’t want to be absurd about what you ask for, but you don’t want to get short changed either just because you’re in need of work.

        You don’t want to come off as desperate, regardless how badly you need the work. Hiring managers will take advantage of this. Remember that businesses are in business to make money. Managers are evaluated on how well they manage money or how much they save the organization. If a manager can hire you for $30K when the position is budgeted for $45K he/she has done well in the eyes of his/her superiors.

        -Under industry experience drop the number of years of experience. You probably can list the number of years experience in the objective section. “I will use my four plus years experience to…” or some wording to that effect. (this is subjective on my part)
        -Quantify the outcome of what you’ve done, i.e. improved stroke treatment (response) 25% above what state law requires or improved stroke treatment resulted in fiscal savings of…

        I’m sure others will have quite a few recommendations as well. Go with what you feel most adequately represents you to the potential employer.

    • #3179976

      Resume 7/6

      by shaunbed ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      Sorry, I am a beginner at resume writing and I have been told a lot of conflicting things about resume writing. I think this is some of the best feedback I have received. One resume writer I went to knocked everything off my resume except my name, contact information, and last job (seriously) and others have told me to include more technical information.

      I have constantly struggled between providing too much and too little information.

      Many recruiters in this country are also starting to refuse cover letters. The times are interesting.

      ——————

      Shaun Bedingfield
      Software Engineer/Architect/Developer
      MCAD for .NET

      Home – 281-579-3549
      Cell Phone – 832-483-7858

      shaunbed@swbell.net

      Certifications/Degrees
      ———————-

      B.S. Computer Science (University of Texas at Dallas)
      GPA 3.667

      MCAD For .NET (Windows and Internet w/ SQL Server focus)

      Skill Summary
      ————-

      C#, C/C++, VB.NET, UML, Object Oriented Analysis And Design, Design Patterns, SQL,
      SQL Server 2000, XML, SOAP, WSDL, Java, HTML, COM, .NET COM Interop, COM+, Access, VBA,
      XSLT, Windows Internals, x86 Assembly, Windows Security, ActiveX, Visual Basic

      Industry Experience – 4 years
      ———-

      2/05 – Present Designing an Access database for Southwest Memorial Hermann Hospital
      Description: Building a system to store and analyze stroke treatment as part of
      an initiative to improve stroke treatment at Southwest Memorial Hermann Hospital.

      Skills used: SQL, VBA, Access, ActiveX Controls, Staff training, Risk Management,
      Incremental Development, Prototyping, User Interface Design

      1/05 – Present Ben Taub General Hospital – Volunteer DBA
      Description: Provided reporting and maintenance for the volunteer database

      Skills used: Access, Data cleaning, SQL, Data analysis, SQL Training

      7/02 – 11/02 Neovox – Software Engineer
      Description: Helping to deliver data access over cellular and voice connections

      Skills used: SQL, SQL Server 2000, MySQL, PHP, Java, .NET, C#, IIS, HTML, ASP.NET, ADO.NET,
      Nuance, Telephony Hardware

      1/02 – 3/04 Officemax – Sales
      Description: Selling products to customer

      Skills used: Customer Service, In-depth knowledge of hardware and software products

      5/00 – 7/01 University of Texas at Dallas – Research Assistant
      Description: Mentoring Computer Science Students and later helping to test a program
      for collecting telecomunication metrics.

      Skills used: Regular Expressions, Java, VBA, Excel, Student mentoring

      1/98 – 3/00 Texas Instruments – Student Employee
      Description: Building a UI for a program used for automatic test code generation.

      Skills used: Regular Expressions, Incremental Development, Constant User Involvement
      and Feedback, C/C++, Solaris, Language Parsing Skills, TCL/TK, Network Deployment

      • #3179959

        Better

        by itgirli ·

        In reply to Resume 7/6

        But if you have a “skill summary”, why do you need to list skills under each thing. You need the most information possible in as few words without redundancy. You have a lot to offer a company, but they’re not going to look at you without proper presentation. Oh, and don’t go back more than 4 years unless you really think you need to. If you have been at one company longer than that, then it would be acceptable.

        • #3179956

          Reply To: How to find a job?

          by shaunbed ·

          In reply to Better

          I did it because a lot of recruiters only consider skills they can see you have used at a specific job.

          Other recruiters will take into consideration additional skills you say you have.

          If I don’t list skills associated with a job (like I often don’t), recruiters tend to tell me I have no skills. If I don’t have other skills, most companies will filter me out and I will never get read.

          I am not sure how to properly address this.

        • #3179955

          This avoids the repitition.. I am not sure whether it works..

          by shaunbed ·

          In reply to Reply To: How to find a job?

          Shaun Bedingfield
          Software Engineer/Architect/Developer
          Microsft Certified Application Developer for .NET
          19606 Cottage Park Circle
          Houston, TX 77094

          Home – 281-579-3549
          Cell Phone – 832-483-7858

          shaunbed@swbell.net

          Certifications/Degrees
          ———————-

          B.S. Computer Science (University of Texas at Dallas)
          GPA 3.667

          MCAD For .NET (Windows and Internet w/ SQL Server focus)

          Industry Experience – 4 years
          ———-

          2/05 – Present Designing an Access database for Southwest Memorial Hermann Hospital
          Description: Building a system to store and analyze stroke treatment as part of
          an initiative to improve stroke treatment at Southwest Memorial Hermann Hospital.

          Skills used: SQL, VBA, Access, ActiveX Controls, Staff training, Risk Management,
          Incremental Development, Prototyping, User Interface Design, Testing, ADO

          1/05 – Present Ben Taub General Hospital – Volunteer DBA
          Description: Provided reporting and maintenance for the volunteer database

          Skills used: Access, Data cleaning, SQL, Data analysis, SQL Training

          7/02 – 11/02 Neovox – Software Engineer
          Description: Helping to deliver data access over cellular and voice connections

          Skills used: SQL, SQL Server 2000, MySQL, PHP, Java, .NET, C#, IIS, HTML, ASP.NET, ADO.NET,
          Nuance, Telephony Hardware, VoiceXML, XML

          1/02 – 3/04 Officemax – Sales
          Description: Selling products to customer

          Skills used: Customer Service, In-depth knowledge of hardware and software products

          5/00 – 7/01 University of Texas at Dallas – Research Assistant
          Description: Mentoring Computer Science Students and later helping to test a program
          for collecting telecomunication metrics.

          Skills used: Regular Expressions, Java, VBA, Excel, Student mentoring

          1/98 – 3/00 Texas Instruments – Student Employee
          Description: Building a UI for a program used for automatic test code generation.

          Skills used: Regular Expressions, Incremental Development, Constant User Involvement
          and Feedback, C/C++, Solaris, Language Parsing Skills, TCL/TK, Network Deployment,
          Prototyping

          Additional Skills
          ————-

          VB.NET, UML, Object Oriented Analysis And Design, Design Patterns, SOAP, WSDL, COM,
          .NET COM Interop, COM+, XSLT, Windows Internals, x86 Assembly, Windows Security,
          Visual Basic, Requirements Gathering, Active Directory, Penetration Testing,
          Common Security Vulnerabilities, Reflection

        • #3179926

          let’s try this

          by itgirli ·

          In reply to This avoids the repitition.. I am not sure whether it works..

          We’ll use this section as an example:

          “2/05 – Present Designing an Access database for Southwest Memorial Hermann Hospital
          Description: Building a system to store and analyze stroke treatment as part of
          an initiative to improve stroke treatment at Southwest Memorial Hermann Hospital.

          Skills used: SQL, VBA, Access, ActiveX Controls, Staff training, Risk Management,
          Incremental Development, Prototyping, User Interface Design, Testing, ADO”

          With “building a system”, what did you use to build a system? You could say “I utilized X, Y, and Z to create a system to store and analyze blah blah blah. I then trained the staff on A & B to help resolve issues with User Inter.. blah blah and implement a staff friendly product yadda yadda yadda.
          Add your own words, dust off the dictionary.
          Add your skills to what you did and add the other skills ( and ones that they are looking for in an employee)to a pile at the top, not bottom. You want them to see what you can do, before you tell them how you did it.
          Of course, I’m no hiring manager, so if anyone wants to add a little feed back to this I would greatly appreciate it.

        • #3175955

          Good advice

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to let’s try this

          One other thing I don’t think I’ve seen touched on. What constitutes a system? Are we talking one machine with an access database or are we talking a network??? If the later, how many nodes are we talking?

        • #3183770

          Why 4 Years Experience?

          by ramonas ·

          In reply to This avoids the repitition.. I am not sure whether it works..

          Shaun: Why are you showing ‘x’ years of Experience under Industry Experience? According to my math, you have 7 years and besides HR people can do the math. Just title it ‘Experience’. I can’t put my finger on it, but I feel there is something else missing that would make this resume POP, which is what you need. Maybe bullets on your skills. Any tangible outcomes, i.e. savings to company, improved efficiency, fewer errors? Show results if you have them!

        • #3183759

          Reply To: How to find a job?

          by shaunbed ·

          In reply to Why 4 Years Experience?

          I am taking the years of experience off. I guess I don’t have my latest copy listed. I am going to do some more editing today.

        • #3175963

          How to address this

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Reply To: How to find a job?

          There is such thing as informational interviews. Once you identify companies that you would like to work for, call managers within those companies adn see if you can schedule an informational interview. Be sure to emphasize that it’s for informational purposes only and that you’re not trying to peddle yourself. If they agree and meet with you reassure them again that it’s for informational purposes only. Of course if they like you and want to offer you a job or arrange a hiring interview don’t turn it down. The intent of the informational interview is to find out about the company culture and at the same time you can ask about what the manager likes to see on a resume and what they don’t. This can be a great networking opportunity since you will have exchanged business cards with the manager. If you don’t have business cards make some up with you name contact numbers BS and certification. Give them out any opportunity you can. People know people who know people.

      • #3179923

        Getting better (far better)

        by jmgarvin ·

        In reply to Resume 7/6

        I’m glad you yanked the skills used section. It was redudant and redudant 😉

        On your present job you don’t say where you work and the formating is somewhat different than the rest of the resume.

        In your description of what you did, expand it out a little to explain what you built or what you sold.

        Let’s take a look at this and expand it out:
        “Designing an Access database for Southwest Memorial Hermann Hospital
        Description: Building a system to store and analyze stroke treatment as part of
        an initiative to improve stroke treatment at Southwest Memorial Hermann Hospital.”

        Designed an Access database that stored and analyzed stroke treatment

        If you want to go further, explain how it was an integral piece of the initiative and helped to improve stroke treatement by x%.

        You don’t need to keep naming the place where you worked.

        Your resume is coming along quite nicely!

        • #3179899

          Accomplishments

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to Getting better (far better)

          The resume is not a recipe list(skills) but a sales tool.

          What employers and hiring managers(like myself) want to know is what you have accomplished – what achievements have you made which set you apart from the rest of the crowd.

          How did your work improve things for your employer – did it save $$, improve efficiency, decrease processing time, improve usability etc.

          What problems did your work fix.

          Was your project or your work on time and on budget?

          Did you take on a new skillset, expand your knowledge, become a subject matter expert in a new area?

          I recommend looking at the sample resumes at http://www.aneliteresume.com.

          James

        • #3179859

          Reply To: How to find a job?

          by shaunbed ·

          In reply to Accomplishments

          I think I need more than samples. I sent them an email and will see how they reply.

          I am still working with everything. I would like to have a stable resume within the week so I can more seriously work at my job search.

        • #3179853

          try a couple different ways

          by itgirli ·

          In reply to Reply To: How to find a job?

          and let us know how it goes. make sure it’s easy to read, and good luck!

        • #3183768

          Another thought

          by ramonas ·

          In reply to Reply To: How to find a job?

          Shaun: Another thought–how about contacting some of the people you worked with in the past–network with them, they might be able to give you some contacts or perhaps offer you a position. Also ask them if you can use them as References.
          Ramona

        • #3169258

          Show them the Money!

          by derek freeman ·

          In reply to Accomplishments

          I concur with James. This was my first impression after reading your resume… for each action, ask yourself “So what?”… what benefit did your actions have for the employer.

      • #3184189

        How to make it even better

        by aldanatech ·

        In reply to Resume 7/6

        Great Shaun. I got so impressed by your accomplishments that if I were an employer and had a position I would hire you in a heartbeat, and I think you would get a high better chance of employment if you emphasized more on accomplishments. Try to include major issues that you helped resolve or noticeable improvements as a result of your work along with any awards you might have received. Remember that when it comes to resume writing it all boils down to selling yourself.

      • #3175973

        Reply

        by vltiii ·

        In reply to Resume 7/6

        No need to apologize. We all started somewhere and we all have varied experiences. All of our experiences are most likely based on a variety of resume writing styles (what works and what doesn’t). That’s why you should take in all of the contructive feedback you’re receiving here and incorporate what you think will work best for you. Some additional pointers I have: You should already have done research and have an idea of what organizations you would like to work for. Based on that you should try to figure out what the hiring manager for those organizations like and doesn’t like to see in resumes. If possible you should joing one or two professional organizations which in addition provide good networking opportunities, can be listed on your resume at a minimum to indicate that you’re staying abreast of the lastest advances in technology.

    • #3179886

      An offer that can’t be refused

      by maxwell edison ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      Regardless of the other messages suggesting a resume make-over, if you are having trouble making inroads because of the lack of experience, when you do get such a rejection, offer a “can’t lose” proposition.

      Mr. Smith, you might say, I understand your reluctance to hire a person without any industry experience. But I’m confident that I can meet your expectations if just given the chance. How about if you give me a small programming task, something that’s relevant to your business, and I’ll write the program for free. If you don’t like what I can do, or if it doesn’t meet your expectations, there’s no harm done. But if it does help your company, or if it does show some potential, perhaps you would then reconsider the merits of what I believe I can bring to your firm.

      (Of course, the task must be targeted for the position/company.)

      One or two firms might shy away from such a proposal, but you should get someone to put you to the test. If no one will, there are other issues that are not clear to us (or to you).

      Edited part:

      I once interviewed a person who made such a proposal to me. He had no experience, I was reluctant to hire him, and he made the offer that I “couldn’t refuse”. And I didn’t refuse. I took him up on it. It’s just too bad he couldn’t produce like he thought he could.

      So when you put your money where your mouth is, make sure you have the funds to cover your commitment.

      • #3179876

        Reply To: How to find a job?

        by shaunbed ·

        In reply to An offer that can’t be refused

        I usually do make that offer but I have never really been taken up on it. Once I was, I produced, and the company never agreed to contract for any real development.

        I am going to be working on some sample programs I can take with me to interviews so I can prove that I know what I am talking about. Most people don’t and a college education is nothing compared to the time it takes to become a competent programmer. I have been programming for over 16 years and I am good but every couple years I look back and think of how aweful I was compared to how I am now.

        I have had to work a lot at being able to communicate that I do have abilities. I have had people laugh off all my skills and make some really rude comments during interviews. I am often overly technical and sometimes a poor communicator (Asperger’s – partially autistic). I can do almost any work but I don’t always come across that way. I also try to be good about admitting my weaknesses.

        • #3179874

          You try to be good about admitting your weaknesses?

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Reply To: How to find a job?

          Be careful that you don’t give them reasons to not hire you. It’s better to focus only on your strengths and what you can bring to the table. If someone does ask about your weaknesses, and some will, like I said, don’t give them reasons to say no.

        • #3179870

          Reply To: How to find a job?

          by shaunbed ·

          In reply to You try to be good about admitting your weaknesses?

          I don’t tell them about my weaknesses. But if they ask me about something and I don’t know it, I will tell them.

          I have had to be careful here. I used to say I barely knew a technology only to find out that I knew it better than the majority of people using it.

        • #3183103

          Catch 22 of “not knowing” something

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to Reply To: How to find a job?

          The reality is that if you say you are a beginner, make sure you ARE a beginner compared to others. That means you have very little knowledge of the subject and you need to read a number of books to get up to speed.

          If you are average on the topic, you know what you are talking about and might need to reference something while doing the task.

          Expert, you know it backwards and forwards…you are the reference.

        • #3183732

          Reply To: How to find a job?

          by techlizard ·

          In reply to Reply To: How to find a job?

          First, I just wanted to say, ALL of us look back a few years and realize how much we’ve learned/grown. If some don’t, they SHOULD.

          As for what you do or don’t know…business dictates what I know and has for my whole career. So instead of not knowing stuff and admitting it, I would say “I don’t have a very good comfort level with that technology but I am confident that I can master it if needed.”. Don’t sell yourself short, I think beyond your resume, your confidence is a bit low.

        • #3196041

          Interviews

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to Reply To: How to find a job?

          Since you’ve been on interviews, one thing I would recommend is to anticipate every question you think could be asked, and take some time to rehearse your response. This will make you appear a lot more confident during the actual interview. Also, interviews are a two way process, you should be prepared to ask a question or two when the interviewer ask if you have any questions.

      • #3179848

        Listen to Max

        by amcol ·

        In reply to An offer that can’t be refused

        This is the best advice you’ve received in this thread thus far.

        You’re concentrating too much on your resume. Forget it. A resume doesn’t get you a job, a well thought out and executed job search gets you a job. I got my last three jobs without a resume, and I know PLENTY of others who’ve done likewise.

        Some quick do’s and don’ts:

        1. DO target companies you want to work for. DO a lot of research to determine who they are. Sound like a lot of hard work? You’re right, but if you want a good job you have to be willing to put in the time.

        2. DO determine who the hiring managers are. Approach them directly, never mind HR.

        3. DON’T go to agencies or recruiters. You’ll waste your time. We can all quote you any number of statistics that show less than 10% of all jobs were found via recruiters. Bad odds.

        4. DO a lot of networking. Once again, we can all quote you all kinds of data showing the majority of jobs that exist are not listed anywhere, not in the papers or the trades or on websites or at recruiting companies or anywhere else. Another way to avoid spinning your wheels.

        5. DO prepare thoroughly for any interview you get, including a LOT of research on the company. The most surefire way to lose a potential job is to walk into an interview and say something lame like “What is it you folks do here?”. See ya.

        6. DO answer all interview questions in words of two syllables or less, and in three minutes maximum. Practice this. Avoid loquacity, the enemy of job seekers.

        7. DON’T use an interview as an opportunity to showcase every single thing you’ve ever learned in your life. You’ve clearly demonstrated throughout this thread that you’re most comfortable talking about your knowledge, skills, and character, to the exclusion of the business value you actually provide. I can guess at the reasons, which don’t matter. An interview is how you get a job, not a stage on which to perform the story of your life.

        8. DO be more aggressive in seeking short term, possibly unpaid, consulting assignments. That’s Max’s message, and it’s a great one. One of the best ways to actually showcase your talents, and basically a lengthy job interview. You may have been unsuccessful with this approach up until now because you didn’t set the parameters up front. Reread Max’s second paragraph…great advice.

        9. DO talk about your strengths in an interview, DON’T talk about weaknesses. You have no weaknesses. I don’t care what the actual reality is…when you’re sitting in an interview, you’re the cat’s pajamas. You’re the man. You’re the king of the world. This company will go under unless they hire you. I’m not advocating arrogance, I’m simply advising to approach the interview with an obvious air of self-confidence. Act as if.

        You can do it. There’s no question about it. Now go do it.

        • #3183095

          # 2 is Danger Will Robinson, Danger!

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to Listen to Max

          1) Totally agree. Zone in on what you want and go for it.

          2) This is going to cause some strife at some companies. Some companies cannot hire unless the resume comes through HR. Also, if you apply with the local, state, or federal government, you HAVE to go through the proper channels. Now, I’m not saying don’t call the hiring managers and talk yourself up, but I am saying that you need to send your resume to HR as well as the hiring managers.

          3) Agreed. Unless you want a contract job, don’t bother with an agency. If you REALLY want a contract job try some of the better contract firms like Tek Systems (I worked with them and it was the best experience while I was doing contract work)

          4) Agreed 100%. Networking goes hand in hand with finding that job you want

          5) Agreed again. Also make sure you know the hiring manager’s name and if there is a panel, their names as well. If you can’t find out before hand, make sure you really pay attention during the interductions. Use their names in the interview. So when you talk to them it is Mr./Mrs./Ms. so and so. Make sure you are somewhat formal and let the hiring manager decide to tone down the formality. Don’t forget to SMILE! During the introductions a quick smile goes a long way to open up the interviewers.

          6) Agreed again, keep is simple. Don’t talk too much and make sure you can answer quickly and at the same time sound knowledgable.

          7) Agreed again…Keep is short and sweet…

          8) Agreed to a point. I would be you could find entry level contract work as a programmer somewhere. I would also suggest your local, state, or federal government as a good way to get some experience. Make sure you hit up some contracting firms as well as the government offices that need your talents.

          9) Sort of. If you are asked “If you were to say you have one weakness, what would it be?” Be honest and forward. If you have trouble relating to others because of aspergers, than say so. If you have trouble with a language or you don’t document your code well, bring it up…but only if they ASK!

          I think you should be just fine! Your resume is shaping up and it looks like you are VERY positive. Just make sure to look at all avenues of approach. I’d really suggest contract or government work to get some experience.

        • #3183027

          Oh, the pain…the pain

          by amcol ·

          In reply to # 2 is Danger Will Robinson, Danger!

          Sorry, couldn’t resist a Dr. Smith quote.

          Your comment to my second point…nah. Strife, schmife. I don’t care how bureaucratic the organization, no hiring manager worth his/her salt who was sold on a candidate ever let HR get in the way of the actual hire. Any manager that does is not someone you want to work for anyway, because that’s a sure sign that when the chips are down and you need him/her to watch your back they’ll be unable to do so. Besides, it’s not your job as a potential candidate to have to deal with corporate red tape…you’ll have plenty of time for that once you’re hired. Find the hiring manager, get the interview, make the sale, then depending on the situation HR can be brought in after the fact if everyone’s all that worried about offending their tender egos.

          Your comment to my ninth point…nah. Trite but true…when life hands you lemons make lemonade. In an interview you turn negatives into positives. When asked to describe any weaknesses I always reply “My standards for excellence are higher than average and folks sometimes find they can’t keep up with me”, or something equally highfalutin’ that means absolutely nothing but doesn’t admit to any actual weakness. You’re required to be honest in an interview, as in all things, but you’re not required to turn yourself in.

        • #3182986

          I compute…

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to Oh, the pain…the pain

          Ah, Lost in Space, what a great show. I loved Dr. Smith.

          I agree with you to a point, but HR (IMHO) has a lot of political pull internally and can hold up the hiring process for quite some time. While most HRs aren’t spiteful, it only takes one bad apple to slow the hiring process from a few weeks to a few months…

          I can’t agree here. It frustrates me when I get the “I have no faults” line. I’d rather hear something that is a fault. Everyone has them and I’d rather hear about them BEFORE I hire you. Keep in mind, the interview means I probably want to hire you even with a fault or two. Plus, I want to know of any possible failings before they come up when we are under the wire…

        • #3184452

          Nope

          by amcol ·

          In reply to I compute…

          We’re risking turning this one little area into an unending debate, but here goes anyway.

          I’ve been on both sides, the private sector (34 years) and the public sector (1 year). Worked in several highly bureaucratic organizations (Fortune 500) with very politically powerful HR departments. I never advocate circumventing any process if you can help it…that’s a suicide mission, since the bureaucrats are SO adept at mucking up the works just because. My point was that as a candidate for a position, it says something to me that the hiring manager I’ve approached directly is willing to do whatever it takes to secure my employment even if that means bucking the HR gods. It also says something to me if he/she is NOT willing to do that. Just one piece of evidence one should weigh when deciding whether or not one wants to join an organization.

          I completely disagree with your position on revealing faults. I didn’t say one should make the statement “I have no faults”…everyone has some. My point was that there comes a time in a job interview when candidness crosses the line. It’s a job interview, not a performance review. What I may consider as a fault someone else might think is no big deal, and vice versa. Who’s to say? Too many interviewees forget that they’re not on the psychiatrist’s couch when they’re talking to a hiring manager. As one myself, I actually find it refreshing when a candidate gives me a creative answer to the “What are your areas for improvement?” question that doesn’t come across as arrogant and sounds more like a good quality than a bad one. It’s all about positives, not negatives.

          Pretend for a second you’re testifing in a trial. You’re on the witness stand, and you’re asked to provide information. What kind of an answer do you give? If you go into any kind of detail, get ready to put your feet back and spread ’em because you’ll be measured for an orange jumpsuit. In that situation you answer only the question you’re asked and provide no extra detail at all. In a job interview you can go into all the detail you want (within reason) when describing your accomplishments, your value added, your skills, your business acumen, etc. Why provide evidence to a hiring manager that you’re less than the perfect candidate he/she wants to hire than you have to?

        • #3182648

          Point out the problems, and provide the solutions.

          by melar ·

          In reply to I compute…

          People are looking for problem solvers. This weakness question is a perfect opertunity to demonstrate this.

          “I have difficulties sometimes communicating to others due to … etc”

          “However, I am implementing communication techniques to assist me in combating this, such as … etc”

          Everybody knows that nobody is perfect and believe it or not, ?the management? can usually tell when you’re full of it.

          This way also lets them know if they come across problems in the future, you are willing to work to resolve them.

        • #3182950

          My weakness

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Oh, the pain…the pain

          is a lact of tact when telling management they’ve been stupid when they’ve been stupid.

        • #3182917

          It’s amazing

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to My weakness

          I have the same weakness (and of course that always endears me to the management!)

        • #3183601

          check here

          by ltxim ·

          In reply to # 2 is Danger Will Robinson, Danger!

          Try the Texas Dept. of Education, the different school districts and the schools themselves, You may even have to start out at running a school’s lan. BUT, it is a place to start, and can lead to other places.

        • #3196031

          #2 is Danger

          by vltiii ·

          In reply to # 2 is Danger Will Robinson, Danger!

          2) I’m sure most companies expect all resumes to come through HR for inclusion in their personnel files, but, the hiring manager has final say on who gets hired, hence the title. When the hiring manager decides that they want to hire someone, they can forward the resume of the successful candidate to HR.

      • #3184109

        Small Business Option

        by thechas ·

        In reply to An offer that can’t be refused

        Just a side note here.

        In my experience, you will only find small businesses willing to work with you on a prove what you can do proposition.

        The last 5 companies I have worked for, the minimum experience is “locked in place”.
        For nearly all positions, any resume that comes in with less than the minimum education or experience is summarily tossed by HR before anyone else gets to see it.

        We presently have over 100 openings for engineers and programmers. However, our project time lines are so critical that management is not willing to take any risks on inexperienced talent.
        Even the college graduates we hire have experience from taking part in internships.

        All I am trying to say is that if someone is looking to get into a large company, they will have to take an entry level position and work their way up.

        If you want to start your career using all of your skills, you may need to start at a small company.

        Chas

    • #3182868

      Java-RMI

      by doproiu9 ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      Knowledge of SOAP, COM, COM+, .NET (w/ COM interop), Java-RMI and many other
      specifications used in component based and distributed development

      davis
      http://www.my-mortgage-loans.com

    • #3184241

      Tailor resume to employer

      by billbohlen@hallmarkchannl ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      One thing I’ve noticed being on both sides of the hiring fence….
      Your resume needs to target the specific needs of the company you’re applying for. The way to find this out is to look at the ad for the position. Most positions in programming are VERY specific as to the technology they are using, so you must craft your resume so that it highlights all of the experience you have with that technology. I have customized every resume every time I send it to a different company.
      For example…if they are looking for a Java/J2EE programmer…your experience in Access and VBA is not relevant, and will be why they skip you. If an employer has to sift through a page of different technologies to find out that YES, you have some Java experience, they will be less likely to give you an interview. Whereas if your entire resume consists of only Java-related experience they will be more likely to think you are exactly what they ae looking for.
      So find out exactly what they need… either from the Ad or by contacting the company directly. Craft your Knowledge and Experience sections to only include what is relevant to that job. I would remove the “Character” section entirely…it takes up too much space and that stuff is usually brought up in the interview.

    • #3184205

      Besides the resume…

      by mlayton ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      …if you need more experience, get it. Volunteer. Many, many non-profits need you. And they’ll give you a referenceable body of work. My second piece of advice is that you need to expand your network, because if you have been looking for a job for so long, you don’t know the right people. Try some professional organizations – IEEE or the like and attend their meetings. Get on committees. Get to know people in the industry – even some generic “professional” organizations may help. You never know who has a brother-in-law that needs you – these days it’s all about the network.

    • #3184170

      Another Suggestion – Pick an Industry

      by maxwell edison ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      Information Technology is often times looked upon as an industry in and of itself. However, with the exception of companies that actually create hardware (companies like Intel) and software (companies like Microsoft), that’s generally not really the case. I’ve often pointed out that Information Technology is not the end, but rather a means to an end, at least in the big picture. For example, if I were to ask you to name an industry that does not use Information Technology in some way, I don’t think you could. Therefore, if you narrow the focus of your job search by applying your knowledge towards a specific end, you might find some firms that are more receptive.

      I noticed that your most recent positions have been in the health care industry, doing work for hospitals. Moreover, if I understand your medical condition accurately, perhaps such an industry might be a little more open to and understanding of your condition. Perhaps you should focus on that industry, and tailor your efforts by showing them how you can help them improve their specific product. Consider the end result that they desire, and show how your knowledge and experience can help them better achieve that result. If you can do that, you’ll have more doors open for you.

      And as a way of doing that, take this posture. Don’t present yourself as asking for a job, per se, but rather having something to offer them. You don’t want to ask them to give you anything, but rather consider what you are offering to give them. The bottom line: give them what they want, and you’ll get what you want. The challenge is to know what they want.

      • #3169426

        Reply To: How to find a job?

        by shaunbed ·

        In reply to Another Suggestion – Pick an Industry

        Health is not the industry to pick. A lot of hospitals are in poor straights right now because companies are no longer insuring their employees. One of the largest hospitals in Houston is going to be demolished because they are losing money on the uninsured.

        Asperger’s syndrome is not much of a problem in IT. It’s primary downside is the tendency for poor communication skills (Bill Gates has it). I have a genius IQ but my social skills are not what you would expect from someone as intelligent. People thought I was retarded for a while growing up.

        • #3183489

          Name one industry. . . . .

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Reply To: How to find a job?

          .
          …..that is expected to grow over the next 5, 10, 20 or more years, at a rate greater than the health-care industry. And please provide the expected rate of growth (or decline?) in the health-care industry as a baseline to which those other industries may be compared. And please use a reliable source, such as the US or Texas department of labor, as your indicators. And while you’re at it, please list the US states in which health-care related opportunities are the greatest, where they’re the lowest, and indicate where Texas is on that list of health-care providing states.

          But if you don’t like the health-care industry, I also predict a future BOOM in the alternative energy related fields.

          If that doesn’t float your boat, what industry does?

          By the way, which hospital is being torn down because it loses so much money on uninsured people? And how does that coincide with the fact that about two trillion dollars is spent every year on health care? And is health care spending going up or down as compared to previous years?

          And even if your conclusion about that particular hospital is accurate, which I question, that seems like a waste of a perfectly good building, regardless of what’s going on inside.

      • #3183629

        Healthcare will never attract IT pros …

        by too old for it ·

        In reply to Another Suggestion – Pick an Industry

        … until they get rid of all the arrogant doctors who feed their own egos by treating staff like dog-doo. They are what drove me out of the health industry.

        • #3183517

          Reply To: How to find a job?

          by shaunbed ·

          In reply to Healthcare will never attract IT pros …

          I meet far more arrogant programers than I do doctors. The biggest problem in most industries is software is a cost not a value.

        • #3183480

          On arrogant doctors and being treated like dog-doo

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Healthcare will never attract IT pros …

          Arrogant doctors who feed their own egos by treating staff like dog-doo are what drove you out of the health industry? Really? I thought it was the managers who never understood what military service was all about? I thought it was because you’ve had to take a back seat to every whiney special interest group that has come down the pike in the past 30 years, and intimidated corporate America into filling a quota for them? I thought it was all those young spiky haired dudes with an all black wardrobe? I thought it was all those profit minded corporations?

          Yea, it’s all of that. It’s a conspiracy, I tell you. A conspiracy.

        • #3183476

          All of the above, except the corporations

          by too old for it ·

          In reply to On arrogant doctors and being treated like dog-doo

          Those I can still work for and make a profit for.

          No conspiracy, just the facts. Sorry you don’t like the sound of it. Really. Hate to interrupt your day. I’ll just be moving along now.

        • #3184137

          Interrupt my day?

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to All of the above, except the corporations

          To the contrary, I love these kinds of exchanges. It helps me show other people how a person’s outcome is directly related to his outlook — every time. And you’ve given me such an opportunity. But I don’t blame you for wanting to just go away and not discuss it. Your argument is similar to a snake – it doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

    • #3182633

      Financial Impact of Your Work

      by bschaettle ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      $ IT’S ALL ABOUT MONEY $
      If at all possible, add the cost savings that were realized as a result of each project you’ve done. If you can’t determine a dollar amount, then estimate the man-hours the project saved. You need to include some measure of the positive financial impact your projects have made.

    • #3169257

      Two words: spell check.

      by thatboy ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      sed -f spellcheck.txt yourresume.txt

      spellcheck.txt:
      s/Extensize/Extensive/
      s/knowlege/knowledge/
      s/interupt/interrupt/
      s/archetectures/architectures/

      • #3183773

        It’s task #1 and you didn’t do it

        by bobaaaaaa16 ·

        In reply to Two words: spell check.

        Shaun, I’ll make this explicit: you didn’t take five minutes to check your spelling (press F7 in Word) and proofread your grammar and punctuation. You might think it isn’t important since you’re a programmer and obviously a smart guy. But employers will see it a different way.

        Since a resume is the one shot you get to make an impression and where everybody tries to look their best, prospective employers will think, “This guy is putting his best foot forward and still didn’t catch these mistakes. How careless will he be once he’s employed and relaxed a little?”

        It may sound silly or unfair, but that’s the way employers think.

        • #3183755

          Reply To: How to find a job?

          by shaunbed ·

          In reply to It’s task #1 and you didn’t do it

          I caught that point early. My current draft is spellchecked and the only reason some of these weren’t is I did not have a spellchecker installed at the time.

          I worry a lot about spellchecking more so because a lot of the phrases used in programming are not ‘real words’ and could come across to employers as spelling mistakes. For example, I use interop at one point. That is not a correct phrase according to Websters but it is the correct term.

        • #3183747

          Actually, the (real) word

          by thatboy ·

          In reply to Reply To: How to find a job?

          is “interoperability”. It is in the dictionary, and everything!

        • #3183743

          Reply To: How to find a job?

          by shaunbed ·

          In reply to Actually, the (real) word

          Yes, but it is not the technical term with COM.

    • #3169253

      Getting a Job w/o Experience

      by jerryaaa3 ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      Shaun,
      I had similar lack of actual computer experience and was able to overcome the shortfalls, but that was a dozen years ago.
      It may not be the lack of experience that is holding you back. First of all, if you are gettng interviews, then you have already done two things: documented all the requirements the potential employer is looking for and you’ve gotten a chance to talk to a prospective employer face-to-face. So the questions become why are they not hiring you and what can you do about it.
      Evaluate your interviewing skills and work on them if needed. Document and work on verbalizing the actual work experience and the real results of those efforts. If you have 15 years programming experience and can mentor programmers, then that is 15 years experience and can be quantified and qualified. If not, then you don’t have the experience and your resume is not accurate, e.g., it gets you in the door but then you fail to deliver what it says you have.
      The best way to get a job is by networking and personal recommendation. Where are all these people you mentored and worked with over the past 15 years. As professionals they should be in a position to assist you in your quest.

      Good Luck in you job hunt,

      Jerry A

      • #3183754

        Agreed – It’s who you know that counts

        by Anonymous ·

        In reply to Getting a Job w/o Experience

        I agree with Jerry. You have to know people in the business and be at least a ‘familiar’ name or a name they’ve heard of before from someone ELSE to get into some (maybe not all) places. Talk to people. Let people know you are looking for work and what you can do. And, in doing so try to concentrate on your communication skills and ask your friends for suggestions. This way you are gaining skills for the interview and networking at the same time with people you already know and hopefully can trust to steer you in the right direction. 🙂

        I hate to think this but it sounds like some companies the HR people sometimes interview people and waste time just to amuse themselves by interviewing those they don’t intend to hire, but just to laugh at them and be rude. I’ve had that happen before in some places I applied years ago.

        If you’re disabled and you feel your disability may be hindering your ability to communicate, it might be worth finding a professional resume service that also helps with interview skills, or if you get nasty remarks at an interview, call the labor board and explain the situation. If they don’t make rude remarks or laugh at you, but seriously tell you they’ll “consider” your application or tell you that they don’t feel you’re right for the job, but saying it professionally, then there’s nothing you can do about it. But unprofessional behavior should be addresses. Some companies are discriminating. And you don’t really want to work for them anyway. If you ever DID get in, they’d only make your life a living hell anyway.

        Networking, talking to friends, getting suggestions. IT is hard to find work in now anyway. I know at least two people that were in IT and out of work for at least two YEARS, and had to settle for other non-IT (even low-pay) part-time jobs just to pay the bills. 🙁

        Good luck and keep looking.

    • #3183777

      Jobs in IT

      by samuel.custer ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      What you are working against is not your supposed lack of the correct experience, but HB-1s that are being brought here to work at half your salary, plus the company gets tax incentives not to hire you. This may sound like sour grapes, but if you do a little investigative work, you will find this to be true.

    • #3183763

      Remember your college?? USE IT!

      by wodenickel ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      Most schools have a placement service or a career center or an alumni association – or all of them! LEVERAGE THAT RESOURCE!!

      As someoe who also used to hire & work with programming resources, you, frankly DONT have much job experience. What you should target is your first, entry level position and NOT expect that just because you grew up in an era when many 10 year olds had access to PC’s that such “programming experience” would be considered as meaningful in a job sense!

      Did you co-op? Why not?
      Did you intern? Why not?
      Did you do volunteer programming for a local non-profit company? Why not?
      Did you target and study a particular job market? Why not?

      All this should have been done while you were still in school – tho its not too late. Visit your local library for job hunting resources. Also the local city/state/county employment office for more ideas.

      Its time to actually WORK at getting a job!

      good hunting,
      Mark

      • #3183745

        Reply To: How to find a job?

        by shaunbed ·

        In reply to Remember your college?? USE IT!

        I did work during college.

        I also resent the comment that many 10 year olds had programming experience at my age. When I was at college, I knew more than almost all the students and quite a few of the professors. If most people had started programming when I did, this would not be the case.

        I am going to work on creating some new work so I can showcase my skills. Programs created 10 years ago or more are not very marketable anymore.

        There are a lot of people who say that they can do the things I can or did them but most frankly can’t deliver. I think the biggest problem is anyone can and many will claim things as long as they know they are hard or impossible to verify.

        I can be cocky and say I can learn almost any technology in a week or two. Lots of people will say the same. I can read more literature than most people read in half a year (I can read up to 20 ppm) and have written several lines of code in that time (For small programs roughly 500-5000 lines, I can produce about 500 lines per hour – function points would be better). Larger than that and most of the effort depends on how well the design is conceived. In my OOA&D class at the masters level, I implemented a fairly large system in one night (the size of a fairly decent book). The professor thought it would take the team two weeks to do this.

        • #3183611

          Wooden Nickel? or wooden head…..

          by wetrivrrat ·

          In reply to Reply To: How to find a job?

          Shaun,
          Don’t worry about what wodenickel said, as it seems he is just upset that he could never hack it as a programmer, better yet, he probably still struggles to Ctrl-Alt-Delete, (all at the same time there wodenickel).

          Any how, take the good with the bad here and glean what you can from these postings. *Most* everyone here has had at least one good point or another.
          Your resume IS too long, but don’t be afraid to let it go to 2 or 3 pages, IF it is all POPING info. *remember you only have about 10sec to capture these non-techies attention* You do need to Spell check everyting (did you catch that one?).

          DO get in touch with old acquaintances from these past employers (volunteer or paid) and gets some people willing to speak for you.

          DO work on a better format, many ideas have been offered here, listen to most of them. Don’t be afraid to repeat something, as long as it has affected the end result in a different way.
          DO review, and review, and review your resume, as well as your interview info(meaning, know what you want to say, think of possible questions that would be asked, review these out-loud, have a friend interview you so you get comfortable with the process. etc, etc)
          DO work on your communication skills, it was once said by Mark Twain “it takes at least a good 2-3 hours to write an impromptu speech” so with that said, if you struggle with communication, work on it, if you really do read as fast as you say, go to the book store, pick up a few books on communication skills, and PRACTICE THEM!

          DON’T give up,
          ?It may be hard for an egg to turn into a bird. It would be a jolly sight harder for it to learn to fly while remaining an egg. We are like eggs at present and you cannot go on indefinitely being just an ordinary decent egg. We must be hatched or go bad.? – C.S. Lewis

          Oh, and remember — Take it on! Eat it! Suck it up! Spit, swallow, choke or thrive! If you can do it, so can I. – Don’t let anyone get you down! Next time some idiot wants to put you down or belittle you, think on that last statement… and become better than them.

          OH, almost forgot….
          Here’s one for you wodenickel
          It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt – Mark Twain

        • #3183534

          LEarn any technology in two weeks?

          by bobbabcock ·

          In reply to Reply To: How to find a job?

          Okay- DNA sequencing ! GO!

        • #3183527

          Reply To: How to find a job?

          by shaunbed ·

          In reply to LEarn any technology in two weeks?

          I said almost any.. read what I said before sarcastically knocking me.

    • #3183746

      Reply To: How to find a job?

      by richards_unsubcribe ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      Shaun… your resume is way too long… at least for the North American market it is. R?sum??s should be no more than 2 pages long MAX. R?sum??s should be targeted… some tailored for specific jobs applications and others for “cold calling” job searches where the information is more general. Get some professional help on this… Most cities also have job clubs or job search assistance.

      Unless the recruiter demands a 5 page CV, which is more popular in the Middle East and Europe; I would trim yours down. When a HR manager gets hundreds, even thousands of applications for a specific job, each resume gets a less than a 10 second glance… unless key words “stand out” near the top it goes into the round filing cabinet.

      My advice Shaun is to spend more time on the “hidden job market”, where 75%- 80% of all the jobs are .. seek out those unadvertised jobs… do some networking and get to know people; try to arrange some “informational interviews”. Forget the Microsoft?s (or their UK equivalent) and start approaching the smaller companies. Many managers and HR people will give informational interviews when there is no pressure to make a decision. DO NOT ask for a job or leave a resume unless they ask for one, but keep one handy just in case you?re asked. ALWAYS send a Thank-You card.

      When a suitable job does come up your name might be remembered and the job will never have been advertised. Believe it or not Shaun, many busy managers dread the formal hiring process, so when a opening does come up they remember you, they take the easy way out and make the first phone call… to you.

    • #3183742

      Good Luck – try, try & try again until you succeed

      by bobdole601 ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

    • #3183740

      Get some professional help

      by tlea ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      My initial impression of your resume was, “This guy is a software developer yet it doesn?t look like he can even use a spell checker?!” Bad spelling is a one way ticket to the circular file.

      My second impression was that you were a very inexperienced programmer padding your resume with information to look more experienced. When I saw that you had 15 years ?professional / non-professional? experience yet only showed a minimum amount of professional experience, a little warning bell went off in my head. Only count your professional experience, or better yet don?t state the number of years directly, let the experience section of the resume do the talking.

      Number three, WAY too much information.

      My recommendation is to get some help from a job search agency. Have them rework your resume and help you with your interviewing skills (I?m assuming that they are not so good based on your resume). In my opinion, four years of experience, a BS in Computer Science, and MCAD certification would land you a job inside a month.

    • #3183739

      Change your approach

      by mike ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      Use a spell checker for god’s sake! “Extensize x86 knowlege” is spelled “Extensive x86 knowledge” that’s 2 mistakes in the first couple words of the resume.

      Lose the Knowledge and Character sections. Save it for conversations with programmers after you get the job.

      Lead off with the Experience section and forget the college experience; it doesn’t really matter, everyone does programming in college when getting a BS in comp sci.

      Follow up with the Certifications/Degrees section

      In the experience section, include a line for technologies used. All recruiters search for keywords so put the actual technologies in there. Following is a line from my experience section which has worked well for me.

      Experienced Consultant: XXXX – Feb 2001 ? Sep 2002 http://www.XXXX.com
      Overview: Hands-on development, creation of technical architecture documentation, and unit testing of applications for consumer trade promotions using Java, VBscript, and Oracle. Lead teams of Analysts in various technology implementation and strategy roles.
      Technologies used: CAS, COM, DHTML, HTML, JavaScript, MS Project, Oracle, PL/SQL, Rational Rose, SAP, UML, Visio, Visual Studio (Visual Basic, Visual J++,VB Script), XML.
      Key Duties and Projects:
      ? Authored a digital asset management strategy and technical architecture for a XXXX. Responsibilities included requirements gathering, authoring a 50-page document and presenting findings to senior management.
      ? Designed and implemented CAS CP iSales for XXXX and XXXX. CP iSales is a web-based consumer trade promotions tool that helps sales personnel track and allocate funds for various consumer trade promotions campaigns such as supermarket sales promotions. Responsibilities included requirements gathering, hands-on development and managing consultants.
      ? Designed and implemented a custom web-based trade promotion system for XXXX. This application is a web-based tool to process trade promotions such as supermarket sales. The application was developed on a Microsoft ASP platform and was designed specifically for XXXXs? proprietary trade promotions process.

      When you get the interview, be personable and follow the lead of the interviewer by answering their questions. Pontificate about your programming passions with fellow programmers after getting the job. We love that over lunch because we love programming!

    • #3183730

      Resume revision

      by crake ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      Hello Shaun,

      I noticed you’ve revised your resume, so I’m altering my post. “richards_unsubscribe@…”s post makes a lot of sense.

      Good luck to you! Don’t give up!!

    • #3183725

      I just updated the main snap of my resume

      by shaunbed ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      Please give me comments/criticism

    • #3183720

      Resume and Interview Help

      by arjee63 ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      Shaun, I agree with the others; your resume should be more concise, while better emphasizing your skills. E-mail me and I’ll be happy to send you a sample that might work as a template for you.

      Other than that – work on your interview image. You may have been doing this for a long time, but you’re still pretty young in the eyes of your interviewers. If you’ve got the type of knowledge and experience you discussed, you need to be bringing those to the forefront at interviews. Dress conservatively for the interview. If you have a high voice, drop your voice to a lower pitch; don’t speak too quickly; listen thoughtfully to your interviewer. Make sure you don’t end your sentences on a high pitch; it communicates insecurity and sounds like you’re asking a question rather than making a statement. As much as possible, answer questions based on your previous experiences, and work that into your answer – as in, “I encountered a similar situation while working at X…this is how we handled that…”

    • #3183675

      Look at Utah

      by elforesto ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      Utah is booming with programming jobs right now, most of them paying decently. Combine that with the very low cost of living here, and it’s worth considering a move. Check out http://www.utahcareerguide.com to see the classefied ads looking for programmers. If you have C/C++, VB, .NET, ASP, PHP, etc. experience, there’s likely an opening here you’d want.

      • #3183816

        Yes, but…

        by mgordon ·

        In reply to Look at Utah

        …beware the typically short half-life of a Utah dot-com. Utah is home to Novell (good), the former Word Perfect (good), and SCO; and thousands of little companies you’ve never heard of and never will. The Dean of the computer science department at Utah State University is a mathematician, no doubt a very good mathematician, but IMO a bit challenged on what constitutes a well-written computer program. I did passably well in his class; but I took too long structuring the program and commenting it; whereas spaghetti code with no commentary at all earned higher marks simply because they got done sooner.

        I write programs, but my job description is not that of a programmer; I, and doubtless many like me, write programs (not projects, just programs) to aid in our “real” jobs. No worries about nasty patents, either. It’s also more fun! My biggest one right now is about 5,000 lines of C, talks to the web and to MySQL and manages the information part of a helpdesk.

        I suspect you will find that programming as a JOB may not be as much fun as you imagine it to be. You sit in a cubicle day after day, 60 to 80 hours per week, kiss your social life goodbye (if you have not already done so), trying to make a customer happy when there’s half a dozen go-betweens that ensure you never do understand exactly what the customer wants and therefore never provide exactly what the customer wants.

    • #3183634

      Think outside the box

      by too old for it ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      Amcol I think summarizes it all “As a hiring manager I would only read about one quarter of this resume before chucking it. You wouldn’t stand a chance of getting an interview with me.”

      The same is said to job seekers like me, who have upwards of two decades experience in IT.

      My advice? Find a good location for a coffee/espresso shop. Use 23? worth of supplies to make a cup of coffee. Sell it for between $1.15 and $1.50. Repeat. You’ll meet some great people, be well thought of, and never have to deal with HR types who need assistance turning on their PC in the morning attempting to evaluate your IT skills and whether you’d be a “good fit” before the IT manager, who likely could use your skills, even gets to see your resume. Most CFOs want their programming done for ten rupees an hour anyway, and you can’t live on that … not in the US anyway.

      Good Luck!

      • #3183606

        Complaining gets you nowhere

        by amcol ·

        In reply to Think outside the box

        This is directed to you and everyone else in this thread who’s made some kind of negative comment about outsourcing, offshoring, self-promotion, evil managers, or anything else along those lines.

        Bad news…reality bites. And, just in case you were confused, here’s the specifics:

        1. Jobs are going offshore because people outside the US do those jobs cheaper. Public companies have profit motives…what are they supposed to do, pay you five times as much? The shareholders love it when they do that. Don’t even bother talking to me about relative levels of quality, I’ve had hundreds of people both here in the US and in Bangalore working for me over the years and the difference in quality is FAR less than the difference in price.

        2. Managers do what their companies want them to do. You know, so they can keep their jobs? Kinda like what we’re all supposed to be doing? It doesn’t make us evil, or incompetent, or brown nosers. It’s called survival. Sometimes it’s called being a team player. Sometimes it’s called having a spirit of cooperation. It’s really too bad that IT always seems to have more than its fair share of iconoclastic eccentrics who thrive on individualism and the thought that theirs is the ONLY way to do anything.

        3. Over time all things change. Get used to it. You can sit at your desk and complain until you’re blue in the face that “it ain’t like it was in the old days”, but that doesn’t make the old days come back. They won’t, they’re gone forever. These are the new days, and if you need to be a new you to be successful then change or die. Oh, and by the way…more bad news. Five or ten years from now things will be even more different. Get used to change, cupcake. That’s the one thing that doesn’t change.

        4. Getting ahead in the corporate environment requires a certain amount of horn tooting. Yeah, I know, I’d like it if people would just notice the great work I do without pointing it out myself too. If a tree falls in the forest and there’s no one to hear the sound, did it really fall? Wrong question. If a tree falls in the forest and there’s no one to hear the sound, does it MATTER if it fell? Nope. There’s nothing wrong with patting yourself on the back, and if that’s what it takes to get ahead THEN DO IT. It doesn’t mean you have any less testosterone than the next guy (sorry, ladies).

        • #3183557

          Suck it up … repeat

          by too old for it ·

          In reply to Complaining gets you nowhere

          Listen, I’ve been sucking it up and taking one for the team for the past 30 years now. It used to be that a HS diploma and an honorable discharge form the service was enough to get a job at most places. That was when most places had managers who understood what military service was all about. Now, they view it as a waste of time performed by illiterate louts who can’t get an online degree somewhere.

          Yeah, I complain. Because I have had to take a back seat to every whiney special interest group that has come down the pike in the past 30 years, and intimidated corporate America into filling a quota for them. Then it was OMG, we have to hire these young spiky haired doods with an all black wardrobe and pay them outrageous salaries because THEY UNDERSTAND IT!!!

          So, mister high moral ground (and all the rest of you out there feeling smug as well), since I have taken the kick in the teeth for the last 30 years, and somehow have kept my skills sharp the last 17 in IT, when do I get my dot-com paycheck? When do I get my props? When do I get “Thank you sir, for you service to your country, and yes we have a position open for you”?

          Never I think. Because along with everything else that has changed over time, respect for an American doing an honest days work by giving an honest days pay has gone out the window as well. And if this is the thanks you think we all deserve just because we want jobs to stay at home and pay a decent wage, then all you “profit minded” corporations can just watch me laugh as your companies fold or get consolidated.

          Bitter much? You bet. I don’t know what country this is, but this is not the America I was raised in, nor the America I went off to the Marines for right out of high school.

          Keep treating people like dog-doo. I hope you like it when it is your turn.

        • #3183532

          Thanks

          by amcol ·

          In reply to Suck it up … repeat

          I love it when folks make my point for me.

          First of all, thank you for your military service to our country. Really, I mean it, no sarcasm intended. You put your life on the line to defend the freedoms we all take for granted and you deserve respect and gratitude for that.

          However…THAT’S ALL YOU DESERVE. It doesn’t buy you a job, or a secure future, or a nice house in the burbs with a white picket fence. Your words: “Thank you sir, for you service to your country, and yes we have a position open for you”. Sorry, one thing has nothing to do with the other, and if you went into the Marines thinking that would be your ticket to lifetime employment you either weren’t listening, or you had an EXTREMELY unrealistic set of expectations, or someone sold you a bill of goods.

          “Respect for an American doing an honest days work by giving an honest days pay has gone out the window”. Therein lies the problem. I don’t think you meant your statement to be as dismissive of offshore resources as it sounds. People with your skills in New Delhi or Madras give just as honest a day’s work as you do. The plain practical fact of the matter is that they live in an area whose standard, and cost, of living is one tenth what it is here. As such, they can afford to take significantly less money for the same work.

          You need someone to paint your house. Two guys show up, one speaks pretty good English and says he can get it done in a day for $1,000. The other is hard to understand, says it’ll take him three days, but he only wants $200. Who are you going to hire? You may or may not get the same great paint job from the second guy, but it’ll at least be good enough and you’ve just saved 800 bucks. You think American managers think any differently about business decisions, just because there are a few more zeroes in the numbers?

          You blame an awful lot of of people for whatever you perceive is wrong. I don’t deny the world’s about as unfair as it can be, but that’s the whole issue. Your attitude comes off you in waves, even in a short essay. You think you’re such a good poker player that the people you’re interacting with aren’t reading you like an open book? That’s your fault, my friend, no one else’s. Look inward.

        • #3183514

          One last thought before I go ….

          by too old for it ·

          In reply to Thanks

          I love it when people just can’t accept that other people hold opinions different from ?the corporate line? are worthwhile human beings entitled employment in this country.

          1. Keep dismissing veterans for job opportunities. See how many kids consider it in the future. Really, why should they if companies hold that military service has no value to their operation?

          2. You ever notice that the senior managers managing all those zeros who like the work coming out of New Delhi or Madras never quite pack up their wife and two teenaged daughters and move there themselves?

          3. Everyone who has hired or contracted with me for IT work has been somewhere between satisfied to extremely pleased with the quality of my service. My attitude about hiring practices has precious little to do with the quality of IT work I do. I think this is the same for everyone else in the field.

          (Well there was the one guy who felt he couldn’t trust me because I didn’t want to switch religions and join his church after a year with the firm, but you have the occasional off-base manager too.)

        • #3184126

          A perfect example. . . . .

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to One last thought before I go ….

          .
          ….of a guy who refuses to take personal responsibility for his life and his own outcome. And a Marine, no less. Put a dagger through my heart. Burst my bubble.

          I used to say that I’ve never met a Marine who was neither extremely successful and/or extremely confident in his own abilities. You appear to be neither. You appear to be the exception to my rule. I’d bet a dollar to dirt that you don’t have an honorable discharge. And if you do, you fell through the cracks, and let me know where to send the dollar.

          I have a maxim. I hire for attitude and train for skill. I never hire a person, regardless of how skilled, if he shows a bad attitude – never. You can always train for skills; but you can never train to improve a person’s bad attitude.

          Look at yourself. Look at your career. Look at your outcome. I rest my case.

          ———-

          WARNING, WARNING WILL ROBINSON. THIS COULD BE YOU. DON’T LET THIS BE YOU!

        • #3183502

          Interesting – you and I are similar. . . . .

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Suck it up … repeat

          …in age, military, early experience, etc. However, that’s where the similarities end.

          Why is it that some people, “have taken the kick in the teeth for the last 30 years…..”, while others haven’t?

          Why is it that some people, “have had to take a back seat to every whiney special interest group that has come down the pike in the past 30 years…..”, while others haven’t?

          And by the way, I can’t recall a single time when someone specifically said to me, “Thank you sir, for your service to your country”; but why is it that some people have a need for it while others don’t?

          Personally speaking, just doing what I believed to be the best thing or the right thing is thanks enough. Thank you, self, for standing on and living based on principle. What more does a person need?

          It’s often said, and I fully concur, that if you don’t like what’s going on outside of you, the place to look is inside of you. Perhaps you’re looking for gratification in the wrong places.

        • #3183479

          Pure Luck, Maybe?

          by too old for it ·

          In reply to Interesting – you and I are similar. . . . .

          Why is it that some vets are working in the executive suite, and others, just as qualified, are living under the bridge in a hobo camp? Bad breaks, pure luck, who knows?

          There are likely a thousand reasons. Isaac Newton once said, “If I have seen further it is by standing on ye shoulders of Giants.” I agree: We all are where we are today through the help of others.

        • #3184133

          Luck is made, not found

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Pure Luck, Maybe?

          .
          “Luck is made, not found.”

          – Maxwell Edison

          “Luck favors the prepared mind.”

          – Louis Pasteur

          And speaking of Isaac Newton:

          “If others would think as hard as I did, then they would get similar results.”

          -Sir Isaac Newton

          “Shallow men believe in luck. Strong men believe in cause and effect.”

          – Ralph Waldo Emerson

          And from one of my favorite people — a true mentor from his grave:

          “I’m a great believer in luck; and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.”

          – Thomas Jefferson

          I wish you luck…..and lot’s of it…..

          But remember:

          “Depend on the rabbit’s foot if you will, but remember it didn’t work for the rabbit.”

          – R.E. Shay

        • #3189608

          Military benefits

          by talentonloan ·

          In reply to Suck it up … repeat

          I disagree with the assessment that military service is trivialized. Far from it. Anyone that knows that much of the modern military is a ‘hi tech dynamo’ and that soldiers are using technologies that are knife edge in many cases.

          Any manager who doesn’t value life experience of selfless service which the military embodies, the self discipline required, teamwork, etc. is in the wrong job him/herself. In some of my personal advice to people I have told applicants that what they need is a year or two in the military.

          tol

        • #3189542

          comments

          by shaunbed ·

          In reply to Military benefits

          Military service is valuable. It does teach discipline and that is one of the things most people do not have. This is a huge asset.

          As far as teamwork, this can be learned elsewhere but most of the time good teamwork comes with discipline. In college, teamwork is hard to accomplish for the simple reason that most of the students don’t care as long as the work is accomplished. They only provide the minimum they need to in order to see a project accomplished.

          I am not sure this is a good time to join the military, however. Iraq is likely to give many people who are not prepared post traumatic stress disorder which is not a trivial problem. It may also condition people to a lifestyle that does not work in the United States.

          If you have no direction in life and many college applicants and graduates don’t, military service is probably a good idea. If you have problems concentrating and accomplishing goals, the discipline provided makes it an excellent choice.

          That said. I have good reasons for not joining the military. I have a chronic illness and other conditions which would probably keep me from be accepted and surviving if I was. I was literaly on death’s door while I was attending college. It took a lot of discipline to make it through college while being severely ill. I am much better now but a bout in Iraq would likely change that.

          For better or worse, I also do not agree with the war in Iraq. I do not believe in blindly following any government in choices that I feel morally opposed to. As long as I am allowed the choice of not serving in iraq, I will exercise this right. If such a day comes that I am no longer given this choice, I will likely consider civil disobedience. I do realize that at such a point I will be guilty of treason. It is easy to idolize Thoreau without realizing the implications of his ideals. “The price of freedom is eternal vigilance” “A little rebellion now and then is a good thing; the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”

    • #3183628

      Resume – Alt Edition

      by shaunbed ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      Shaun Bedingfield MCAD for .NET
      19606 Cottage Park Circle, Houston, TX 77094 | 281-579-3549 | 832-483-7858 | shaunbed@swbell.net

      Software Engineer

      Strong programmer, software analyst and designer possessing a lifelong passion for making software and IT work. Skilled designer and analyst who designs software using an incremental approach which manages risk while ensuring a stable and workable product throughout development. Responsive developer who uses frequent user feedback and requirements gathering skills to ensure that the right software is developed and delivered. Experienced trainer who can work with staff to ensure that the full benefit of the software package can be materialized and mentor other programmers to help improve developer productivity and quality. Technically knowledgeable developer which can help insure that products are secure and utilize current technology to maximize business advantage.

      Certifications/Degrees
      ———————-

      B.S. Computer Science (University of Texas at Dallas)
      GPA 3.667

      MCAD For .NET
      ? Developing and Implementing Web Applications with Microsoft Visual C#? .NET and Microsoft Visual Studio .NET
      ? Developing and Implementing Windows-based Applications with Microsoft Visual C# .NET and Microsoft Visual Studio .NET
      ? Developing XML Web Services and Server Components with Microsoft Visual C# and the Microsoft .NET Framework
      ? Designing and Implementing Databases with Microsoft SQL Server? 2000 Enterprise Edition

      Industry Experience
      ———-

      2/05 – Present Personal Contract – Designing an Access database for Southwest Memorial Hermann Hospital
      ? Designed a system to store analyze stroke treatment data
      ? Implemented the system using Access
      ? Trained the staff on the use of the system
      ? Through creation of the program, helped improve stroke treatment

      1/05 – Present Ben Taub General Hospital – DBA
      ? Maintained the Volunteer Database
      ? Provided reporting services
      ? Provided SQL training

      7/02 – 11/02 Neovox – Software Engineer
      ? Created a website using .NET
      ? Developed telephony services for businesses to access back-end data

      1/02 – 3/04 Officemax – Sales
      ? Provided in-depth knowledge of hardware and software products
      ? Provided customer service expertise

      5/00 – 7/01 University of Texas at Dallas – Research Assistant
      ? Mentored programmers using C++
      ? Helped test an application for collecting telecommunications metrics

      1/98 – 3/00 Texas Instruments – Student Employee
      ? Created conditional compilation structures for automatic test code generation
      ? Developed a UI for automatic test code generation using evolutionary development
      ? The program was used to save money on the creation of test code and was used in the development of examples for one of the first texts on Mixed Signal test code generation

      Academic and Previous Projects
      ? Developed an e-commerce site using .NET and security knowledge
      ? Developed a routing emulation program using remote components
      ? Developed a windowing user interface environment under MS-DOS
      ? Assisted with many noncommercial PC based video game projects
      ? Helped develop a baseline design for a Metropolitan Transport Authority using Object Oriented Analysis and Design
      ? Implemented the baseline design of a Metropolitan Transport Authority
      ? Produced a SQL Server version of the volunteer database
      ? Currently working on a project to allow centralized register, INI file, and .NET config file editing with XML based support for specific applications
      ? Currently planning a system to create self-regenerating Windows systems for ease of maintenance and support

      • #3183538

        I like this one, give accomplishments but…

        by tjd ·

        In reply to Resume – Alt Edition

        Give me numbers, numbers speech louder than words, lets look at first set of experience:

        >? Designed a system to store analyze stroke >treatment data
        >? Implemented the system using Access
        >? Trained the staff on the use of the system
        >? Through creation of the program, helped improve >stroke treatment

        How many patients, how many staff, how many system was it deployed to, how much was treatment improve (1%, 75%)? How fast did you do it? Under budget? Dollar Savings (short and long term)?
        Dollars are the best, maybe you can’t quantify them, but try to qualify them.
        Dollars to more to justify a potential employer’s investment in hiring you. Show them that you understand how to justify your salary and understand the bottom line.
        No matter what, when it get to the board/owners, its all just dollars.

        But overall the was 150% better than the first one, you’re doing great.
        Good Luck,
        TjD

        • #3183519

          Reply To: How to find a job?

          by shaunbed ·

          In reply to I like this one, give accomplishments but…

          I do not have the results yet. The program was only deployed a couple months ago and quality improvement can be hard to quantify.

          The project did take longer than I expected due to fluctuating requirements. However, I refactored the design to predict future changes and was able to very robustly deal with change. The overall result was that everyone was happy and the last major change took less than one hour.

          I also had some problems dealing with third party software components which I had not anticipated but I was able to come up with an alternate strategy which probably provided for a more flexible end solution. It was a good learning experience. I am always the last person to admit that the problem lies outside my code.

      • #3183967

        much better.

        by itgirli ·

        In reply to Resume – Alt Edition

        much, much better.

    • #3183603

      Have you tried contract bids?

      by wetrivrrat ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      Have you tried bidding on contracts for programming pieces of code for folks who can’t do it at all?
      aka freelancing… it may be worth it. its not always there to put food on the table, but it keeps you from having to interview…..

      • #3183938

        Reply To: How to find a job?

        by shaunbed ·

        In reply to Have you tried contract bids?

        Yes, but I have Crohn’s disease so I am hesitant to accept most unless they provide health insurance. I have almost died a couple times and Crohn’s medication is very expensive (or can be).

    • #3183474

      On second thought: Non-Profits and the Military

      by too old for it ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      Two great sources of experience and fulfilling work. And with a bachelors degree, you could join the officer’s corps, retire in twenty years witrh a nice pension.

    • #3184135

      Volunteer Work is still Experience

      by catadmin ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      That’s how I ended up getting my DBA work, by putting all my non-paid experience in my resume as well as all the additional stuff I did that wasn’t part of my clerical job description. A lot of people have good advice: brush up on interview skills, fix your resume, focus on the industry you want to be in, etc.

      My advice. Consider getting yourself a JAVA Cert just to have something to present in the interviews. If you know JAVA, that won’t be much of a problem. Also, consider looking into the Microsoft Developers path. I know a lot of people have bad things to say about certs, and they won’t magically solve all problems, but if you don’t have a degree in the industry, and if you study the hard way (not in boot camp or via cheat sites), they will come through for you.

      Here are a couple of resume snippets to give you ideas on reformatting your resume.

      1st) Resume outline (in this order) is Name/address/contact info, Position Applied For, Objective, Related Certs (if any), Education (not just college or High School. Include any and all classes -official or self-study- you’ve taken and have a reasonably good handle on. I.E., stuff that, if they call your bluff, you can prove), THEN Employment.

      Make sure to stick in a On the Job Experience section with all your programming skills in order of best to worst right before or after Education. Do NOT repeat yourself with a section after every employment snippet.

      2) When talking about your retail jobs, try something like (this is a direct quote from one of my old resumes):

       Installed PC software and dumb terminal system peripherals.
       Trained local users in peripheral and software usage.
       Participated in miscellaneous accounting duties including accounts receivable.
       Maintained and created presentation of rental equipment and consumable products.
       Area inventory coordinator for branch stores.
       Customer service and advocate duties.

      Sounds much better than: “Description: Selling products to customer” doesn’t it? @=)

      3) Make all your job experiences relevant to one of several possible things (pick a theme and stick to it): a) How much money you saved someone by automating a job, b) How much time you saved someone with your program, c) What broken thing you fixed or what new, innovative system you created.

      4) Include all your volunteer work in order with the other paid stuff. Write down title, name of outfit, time served, and what you did that made you special. If you didn’t have a title, call yourself a consultant. If the employer in question asks for a salary range on the resume, simply put in “Volunteer” after the time frame. If they don’t, don’t mention the work was done for free unless specifically asked the question in the interview.

      If you have problems redesiging your resume, check with your local unemployment office. They tend to offer resume & interview classes for free. You probably don’t even have to register for unmployement. Check with the local community colleges too.

      Hope that helps!

      Catadmin

    • #3184125

      I have 30 years experience & have the same problem

      by markm_in_atlanta ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      Shaun, I have 30 years experience as a mainframe programmer (COBOL, CICS, DB2, VSAM, JCL, TSO, yada yada) and cannot get anyone to even think about considering me because it has been three years since being laid off without any current experience. The concept here is that after two years (or more) of not programming (because no one was hiring), I have completely cleared memory and don’t even know what programming is. Never mind that I did this for 30 years. Never mind that I have consistently scored 90% on currently taken tests for my skills (clearly demonstrating current knowledge & am still fresh with skills).
      Shaun, your resume looks great to me. You seem to be doing everything right and I cannot see how you can do anything significantly better. In light of what I have told you about myself, the reasons (if any) that you are given are completely bogus. They are a crock! I personally doubt it has anything to do with you personally. The hiring people are in a strong buyer’s market. They can get plenty of cheap labor from overseas. They are also looking only at the dollar figures and not at your true value. In my opinion, their thinking is not in correct perspective. I wish I could tell you what to do, because I would be doing it myself if I knew. (Got any ideas?) Meanwhile, I am working at Staples as a sales associate in the electronics & business machines area and am desparately trying to figure out how to reinvent myself. I do well there, but it does not go far for paying the bills. You clearly like helping people and would therefore be a fantastic asset to any organization, whether programming or not.

      • #3184106

        Gee, thought it was only me …

        by too old for it ·

        In reply to I have 30 years experience & have the same problem

        … but the again, I know I’m too old for IT. (Well, server/network/systems admin anyway …)

        Good luck in re-inventing yourself, tho I fear that touch of grey and professional bearing will give you away every time.

        I might suggest the non-profit route to you as well. The pay is not as great, but the shop is generally smaller, the results more immediate and more gratifying. And you’ll find the staff so appreciative of any little thing you can accomplish for them.

      • #3183917

        Reply To: How to find a job?

        by shaunbed ·

        In reply to I have 30 years experience & have the same problem

        I don’t know.. All the jobs in software at the moment seem to be Java or .NET. Telecoms and a lot of older businesses still primarily use mainframe skills but they are hurting.

        If the bells consolidate again, it might be good for telecom but it is hard to say.

        ISAM is also out now that the internet is here. Most of the jobs revolve around the internet and SQL is less chatty.

        I think with some of the right retooling you could probably find something but no one is going to be willing to retrain in this market and that sounds like what most companies think they would have to do in your situation.

        You may want to work on presenting the nontechnical skills you have learned over your career. Project management, etc. skills are kind of timeless. Soft skills are always very important.

        Probably heed the advice I have had multiple times and skip regular recruiters. You probably have a network (hopefully employed.. I knew a couple people in Dallas but they all lost work) and that should be a big advantage. Also work any societies you may be on.

        I would retool some, work on presenting soft skills, and the business value you _have_ delivered. Look for someone in companies who can identify with you and your experience. Contact them directly if you can. A lot of authors and technical people will respond especially if you present well (my problem). Remind them that producing software is about all the soft things and big technical skills come and go. Also remind them that unlike many, you _have_ produced.

        If all else fails, look to academia for a while. There are a lot of people with older skillsets there and unfortunately some rusty nails but they should be able to identify and you might be able to land a temporary lecturer position while retooling and use potential research work to boost your career.

        • #3184808

          You guys are killing me

          by amcol ·

          In reply to Reply To: How to find a job?

          What is it about “change or die” that you don’t get?

          MarkM…you don’t “have 30 years experience as a mainframe programmer”, you have one year of experience 30 times over. You can’t get anyone to look at you not because you’ve been out of the industry for three years but because you lack the skills that hiring managers are looking for. You say “I have consistently scored 90% on currently taken tests for my skills (clearly demonstrating current knowledge & am still fresh with skills)”. Who’s kidding whom?

          Let me tell you a little story. About four months ago I was in the data center of a very large (to remain nameless) federal agency in a city somewhere in the US, doesn’t matter where. The VP of MIS (yeah, they actually had someone with that title) told me they did most of their work in Model 204 (!) on IBM mainframes using TSO, JCL, CICS, and all those wonderful 1,000 year old skills you’re so comfortable with. He further said most of the “old guys” were retiring, and they were having a devil of a time replacing them. “Why?”, I asked. “Well”, he replied, “it seems the colleges and trade schools don’t train people in these skills any longer and although we have an in house training program we can’t attract people to this environment.”

          Any light bulbs going off here? I know a lot of people in your position who think to themselves, “Great…consulting opportunity!”. Puhhhhh-leeeeeze. MOVE ON. The mainframe is dead. Long live web services.

          Don’t get me wrong, I’m an old mainframer myself. Got my start the same way you did, but I haven’t written a line of Cobol code since 1977.

          Too Old For IT…”that touch of grey and professional bearing will give you away every time”. As well you should want it to, IF YOU’RE GOING AFTER THE RIGHT KIND OF JOB. No one wants a 50+ year old programmer. Actually, MarkM has the right idea in a way…he’s trying to reinvent himself, just going about it the wrong way. If you’re not comfortable moving up the IT career ladder into management, consulting, leadership, whatever, then go into a different field. You can’t stay a programmer more than about three years without completely retooling yourself, and you can’t stay at that organizational level in this industry much past the age of 40. That’s simple economics and business reality. Deal with it or not, at your own risk.

          Shaunbed…I think it’s hysterical that this thread started out with you soliciting advice and is morphing into you dispensing it. Good for you…not only is your direction right on but it shows me you have more than just the technical chops you’ve been talking about.

        • #3184604

          You are correct

          by too old for it ·

          In reply to You guys are killing me

          You are correct. If you are over 40, you need to be outside of the day-to-day of IT.

          In my case, it’s consulting with samll businesses and non-profits that are too small to require a full-time IT staff. You milage may vary. They appreciate the experience, and are just nice to work with.

          Perhaps, on a more human note, instead of job hunting and interviewing with 22 year old “HR Pros”, more of us reinvent ourselves away from IT and corporate structures. There are plenty of opportunities to take your years of experience where they will be appreciated. Open that bed and breakfast, tutor inner city kids, teach public school … the list is endless.

        • #3184552

          Don’t misquote me

          by amcol ·

          In reply to You are correct

          I did NOT say, imply, or in any way indicate that “If you are over 40, you need to be outside of the day-to-day of IT”. I’m past 50 and I’ve been in day-to-day IT since I started my career without a break of even one nanosecond. I’ve done so by marrying my technical career with a business career.

          What I actually said was that you can’t continue to be a programmer past the age of 40. No disrespect intended to anyone…programming is basically an entry level job. If you think there’s an organization anywhere that’ll hire someone who by the age of 40 has (by definition) 20 or so years of experience into an entry level position in ANY field, excuse me…you’re nuts.

        • #3190331

          Mea Culpa

          by too old for it ·

          In reply to Don’t misquote me

          Maybe day-to-day was not the best choice … but I don’t have a good short way of describing anything outside of management (or whatever we are supposed to be doing when we hit 39).

          We know, by the vast number of us kicked to the curb at present, that many of us do NOT know what we are supposed to be doing in IT over 40.

          Hence, myself and the non-profits, others selling baseball programs at Wrigley. I’ll happily trade some income for respect; others have taken the John Galt approach to the current IT hiring environmant. (The metaphor is not dead on, but it’s adequate.)

        • #3190177

          by the vast number of us kicked to the curb?

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Mea Culpa

          Sorry, the data just isn’t there to support your assertion. Define “vast number”. And define “kicked to the curb”. And show the data to support your claim. You can’t, because it’s just not there.

          The late 40s to early 60s crowd, in general, is doing just fine. Most of us have gotten smarter and wiser. But then, I suppose there are some of you who continue to choose to be at the mercy of others. And I think that’s what’s really the shame.

        • #3190173

          And to answer the question you asked me. . . . .

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Mea Culpa

          You are consumed with selling coffee?

          You are too old for IT?

          The answer is obvious. Open an Internet coffee house in Seattle. Or a “Seattle Coffee” Internet coffee house in Omaha. Or……..

        • #3190144

          Harsh but true, Max

          by amcol ·

          In reply to Mea Culpa

          Too Old For IT is exhibiting the classic symptoms of victimitis. To a point you’ve made in other posts, we all choose to be however we are (whether we realize that or not). Too Old and others herein have chosen, perhaps unconsciously although that’s irrelevant, to blame their misfortunes on anyone and everything other than themselves. I’m not the right age, I haven’t been given the opportunity to develop the right skills, I have to deal with 8-year-olds in the HR department…the list of excuses is endless. You just want to take these people, shake them, slap them across the face, and scream “Wake up! Time to wake up now!”.

          You and I have chosen to take more control over our lives, and I’m afraid I’ve lost the ability to understand why others don’t do the same. As my father used to say, and as I’ve taught my own children…there’s no such thing as a good excuse.

        • #3190079

          amcol – On the defeatists’ attitudes

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Mea Culpa

          .
          I’ll be the first to admit, and you may even concur, that it’s much easier to take the defeatist road and to be a victim rather than accepting full and total responsibility for one’s self. (Note: I said to take full and total responsibility for one’s self, not necessarily the things that may happen to one’s self; but yes, sometimes even that.) It’s called taking the easy way out.

          Yes, bad things happen to good people. But for every second dwelling on the typical “who’s or what’s to blame” syndrome, that’s a second wasted that could have been spent looking forward, and it’s a second too much. Why even bother, I have to wonder? It does absolutely no good whatsoever. Moreover, not only does it do no good, but it actually inflicts harm; so those wounds are always self-inflicted.

          It may be a tired old saying, but it’s true that every dark cloud has a silver lining. Why people insist on keeping their focus on the dark cloud — even for one second — instead of the silver lining is a phenomenon that’s not only hard for me to understand, but something I’ll never appease or even tolerate.

          A defeatist’s outlook usually, if not always, becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. How many happy, content, and successful people, for example, started out thinking they were going to be a miserable failure? Life can indeed be a self-fulfilling prophecy. And it’s not that a person can control all the things that happen around him, but he’s the ONLY person who can control how he responds to them. And I’ll never accept anything to the contrary.

          It’s all a matter of choice. And I just don’t get it when a person chooses the defeatist path. What was it Robert Frost wrote about the road less traveled? It does indeed make all the difference.

        • #3190140

          Reply To: How to find a job?

          by shaunbed ·

          In reply to Don’t misquote me

          I think the best way to say it is this.

          When you leave college, employers expect you to have a lot of hard skills ie. XML, Java, C++, C#, etc. Do these things matter? Not really. Most of them are pretty easy to pick up but these are how you start your career.

          After working in the field for a couple years, you need to wise up. .NET, ok in 2 months we have .NET 2.0 around the corner. Java, some HR people were asking for 10 years of Java experience by 2000 before Java was that mature. Hard skills come and go. That is the way it is and they are not the way to build a solid career. If you spend 20 years concentrating on hard skills, you are little better than an entry level grad because your knowledge like an entry level person is quickly dated.

          Experience is your chance to show that you have soft skills.

          Do you know how to deliver projects on time? Are you good at estimating project length? Can you find ways to save your company lots of money? Do your projects tolerate risk? Do you work to produce the _right_ software? Can you build a piece of software longer than 5 KLOC without your design falling apart? Do you know how to market your ideas to business? Can you transfer your skills (especially soft skills) to younger people? Can you determine whether someone really can do the job they say they can (hiring)? Can you manage other programmers?

          These are the _real_ valuable skills and these are things that no college can really teach one to do. Why? They require time and experience.
          If you have been programming professionally over 5 years and do not have these skills, you are in trouble. Spend time on soft skills. Hard skills change but soft skills tend to retain value.

          I am proud of all the time I spent programming before I landed in college. Why? Lots of failures, a few successes, and the chance to get some of these skills. I still need to prove them.

          If you are a newbie, at least start your career with the classics. Read some Steve McConnel, Fred Brooks, etc. Does this give you real skills? No.. but it shows you what you need to work on when you do get into the workplace.

          If the world is about hard skills, I could teach anyone to program (technically) in C++ within about 3 months and some claim 24 hours. If this is the only thing that makes you valuable, I don’t see why we don’t ship your job overseas. It is a lot cheaper to give someone a book, ‘Teach your self C++ in 24 hours’ (~$35), rather than ask for someone with a college degree.

          Am I being a little harsh, yes. But please get the point. Do not invest all of your time in hard skills.

          My two cents.

          Shaun

    • #3184057

      I’ve given newbies a shot before

      by harris.julie2 ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      …and they’ve all worked out great!
      Get yourself a contract manager who will lobby employers on your behalf. Go for soem short term contract work – they often stretch out longer than expected, and at least you’ll get a reference.
      MOST OF ALL – push, push, push! persistance pays off, when they see your enthusiasm someone will opne a door for you.
      and if you are ever in Australia………

    • #3184050

      Open Source

      by jcjr031064 ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      Contribute to open source. This will provide you with the experience. Or if you start one yourself who knows you become famous.. For example in the PHP space while PEAR has some worthy libraries, there are still things to be done say an ORM class library similar say to java’s hibernate or ibatis. You get to practice and contribute at the same time. And you just might get famous… Of course you have to invest some time on this project. And in your resume you refer to this project as a showcase for prospective employers to see for themselves.
      My two cents worth:)

    • #3184005

      Another observation – to be blunt

      by maxwell edison ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      A lot of people have offered advice and opinion to you, only to be dismissed as nonsense or irrelevant. Clue number one: These people have jobs; you don’t.

      Your poor attitude has started to come through many of your messages, even though people have stressed the importance of putting forth a good attitude. Clue number two: These people are hiring managers; you’re not.

      Why is it that when you come to people and ask for help, you dismiss them with your genius IQ and your “I know better than they do” attitude? Clue number three: They really do know better.

      In my observation, and forgive me if I sound rather harsh, while you may have been open to accepting help with your resume, you certainly didn’t want help finding a job. Unless, of course, you think a resume will get you a job. Clue number four: A resume will not get you a job. A person with a great attitude and no resume will be better off every time.

      But what do I know? I only hire people myself, and have always been able to find a job.

      By the way, The egg came first. I thought every genius knew that. And can you tell us why that must be the case? (There is a correct answer.)

      • #3183947

        Reply To: How to find a job?

        by shaunbed ·

        In reply to Another observation – to be blunt

        I am currently looking and while I have not responded to everyone’s advice I have taken everyone into consideration. I have not really dismissed anything that someone has said except complete flames(‘the one implying ignorance and that I should TEACH because I didn’t know what the hell I was doing’). Sometimes I don’t have anything quality to add so I don’t say anything but I read everything.

        On other points, yes, I am arrogant but I am also very good at what I do. Communication is not my strong point and with Asperger’s probably never will be. Some people can’t work with me because of a perceived ‘attitude’ which is really nothing more than a lack of understanding in the social realm. This is a big disadvantage and I try to improve it every day but am I great? no.

        To some degree, arrogance is just self-respect and that is what I aim for. People who think I am tooting my horn a little too loudly should see me in work before they judge.

        Some of my problems are..
        1. I am very literal
        2. I tend to say socially unacceptable things without realizing negative conotations.
        3. I get mad easily and if someone seems to be doing nothing more than flaming me, I might respond unprofessionally.
        4. I have a hard time recounciling myself to others world views especially those who say that everyone can do the things I can, that I have no skills, that I am blowing steam, etc.

        • #3184515

          Not everyone can

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Reply To: How to find a job?

          do them, even less want to do them. But that still leaves a lot of people in the hat.

          Skills are only useful in terms of what skillful successes you’ve had. How you did something, why you did it that way are good topics for an interview, but the resume and the conversations are always preceded by what you produced, and how well it worked.

          My earlier cv’s used to say Took over responsibily for maintaining the C code in house thereby allowing cancellation of a ?20,000 p.a. support contract. That was actually more than my salary, even if a new company doesn’t have that requirement or wouldn’t consider doing it, it indicates a high level of confidence in your ability.

          It’s all about selling, when you are trying to sell a high performace car, you don’t stick a bit of paper on it with detailed specs, you use a six foot tall jaw droppingly attractive blonde, or perhaps a redhead.

          Not a technique we can use unfortunately, but you need a hook at the start of your cv, to get people to read the rest of it and that achievements.

      • #3183939

        Reply To: How to find a job?

        by shaunbed ·

        In reply to Another observation – to be blunt

        I only brought up the IQ because I was afraid that people would look at me as stupid because I had said that I was partially autistic.

        Technically, I am very smart. Socially, I am probably retarded. Despite this, my IQ is overall very high.

        • #3183916

          Okay – Another bit of advice – Take it for what it’s worth

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Reply To: How to find a job?

          .
          As I said in an earlier message, for the most part, Information Technology is a means to an end, not the end itself. And since Information Technology is used in literally every industry to help create a specific product or service, I’m resistant to the notion that IT is a specific field in and of itself, even though it’s often presented that way. Having said that, and as a hiring manager myself, and having been on both sides of the interview table, here’s what I consider a successful approach to job seeking.

          If you can talk to a hiring manager and show a reasonable degree of knowledge about his or her specific industry, show that you are a passionate participant in that industry, and illustrate how your technical skills will advance their needs in that specific industry, improving their product, their process, or their profit, then these hiring managers will be all ears. You can have all the technical ability in the world and speak techno-lingo with the best of them, but technology is not their product. And you have to be able to talk their product.

          General Motors, for example, wouldn’t give a rat’s behind how technically skilled you are if you don’t care about or know the first thing about the automotive industry. But show a knowledge of, and a passion for the automotive industry, and you’ll get their attention. Then show how you can help them get what they want out of technology — as applied to their product — and you’ll get a job. In fact, you may even have your choice of jobs.

          I tried to illustrate this by quizzing you on the health care industry when you were going on about how bad it was. If you know the industry, and if you love the industry, and if you’re passionate about what you want to achieve, not only will people will talk to you, but they’ll help you. And in the health care scenario, just like the automotive example, if you can keep the techno-talk to a minimum, and instead talk health-care and applying technology to the delivery of health-care (or whatever), then those folks’ interest in you will increase exponentially.

          Having a good resume might only be 10 percent of the job hunting process, and everything else is 90 percent. The mistake most people make is focusing 90 percent of their efforts on the resume, but only 10 percent (or less) on the all rest. Focus your efforts where it’ll make the most difference — and it’s not the resume.

          My advice it this, and take it for whatever you think it’s worth. Your resume might get you an interview. But it’s your passion that will get you a job. And if you’re passionate about the same “industry and/or product” as the person to whom you’re speaking, you’ll get a lot further in the process. So pick an industry or product that you can be passionate about. And it ain’t “technology”. But rather something to which technology may be applied to make it better.

          Good luck. (And see my previous message on “luck”.)

        • #3183912

          Reply To: How to find a job?

          by shaunbed ·

          In reply to Okay – Another bit of advice – Take it for what it’s worth

          Thanks..

          About healthcare, hospitals are doing poorly and that means most healthcare IT departments are doing poorly. because of uninsured.

          Private doctors and the clinics they are opening without emergency rooms are doing well but most of their needs are low end clearical and they are not as big of IT spenders.

          Health insurance as always is doing well and making a lot of money but I am not that knowledgable about that area of the industry.

          Unfortunately, software is my passion if you talk about anything without software, it usually does not catch my eye. Cars, boring.. automatically controled health monitoring cars with on-board cpus and navigational equipment.. exciting. Medical records.. boring, a database that consolidates redundant record keeping and uses analysis services to improve patient treatment.. exciting. I just don’t come across as that good or caring in nontechnical realms though I do try. I just don’t understand people and those realms. It is part of the contectual information everyone but me ‘gets’.

        • #3183895

          Okay – Here’s the deal

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Reply To: How to find a job?

          .
          If you are passionate about technology, and technology only, and don’t care about automobiles, or health care, or building, or real estate, or insurance, or schools, or law, or retail sales, or kids, or toys, or games, or sports, or widgets, or anything else that literally drives our economy, then that should be your focus. But consider the possibilities you’re eliminating.

          Nonetheless, if you are passionate about technology, and technology only, then focus on the “technology only industry”. Microsoft, Oracle, Autodesk, Symantec, and other such software development companies, both large and small. Yahoo, Google, ebay, and other such Internet companies. Heck, send a resume to TechRepublic or CNet. Talk to some local ISPs. Make a list of every “technology only” company you can think of, and contact them. You’ve defined your passion; so follow it, and let it be the focus of your efforts.

      • #3183931

        My Attitude

        by shaunbed ·

        In reply to Another observation – to be blunt

        I am posting this as a clarification before I have to leave for a volunteer job.

        I try to market myself as being able to do exactly what I can do. I often come across badly and this is not really because of a bad attitude on my part rather I have trouble socially interacting with other people in part due to Asperger’s disorder.

        I was considered to be an egotistical retard by many with no morals until I hit college. I was also considered to be gay and a multitude of other similar crimes. At the same time, other people considered me a genius with a great aptitude for producing software.

        If I have offended any and I have probably offended several, this is not my intent. I have worked very hard on this but I still do not understand regular people very well. I respect everyone here on this board and the feedback they present.

        Please cut me some slack. I am not trying to offend anyone or make them feel irrelevant and I am not trying to tell people how great I am when I can’t prove a thing. I am trying to communicate and I am not always very good at it.

        • #3183905

          I’m never offended

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to My Attitude

          .
          Being offended is always a matter of choice; and I always choose otherwise. I hope you always decide to make a similar choice.

          And I also dismiss the notion that you are not “regular people”. Perhaps that’s why I’m not cutting you any slack. I don’t care what affliction you might have. Your mind is always stronger — but you just have to convince yourself of it. I’ve seen it. I work a lot with teenage boys, some of whom have been on medications for whatever ailment you can name. I never cut them any slack, and I never treat them differently than the others. And when I hear the excuse of their ailment being the cause of the behavior, I dismiss it for what it is — an excuse. And I’ve actually seen some of these boys make the choice to start thinking differently. It’s absolutely amazing what the mind can overcome.

          Some more advice: Never say that you’re not good a communicating; for if you do, you’ll get the very results you predicted. Instead, choose to remind yourself that you ARE good at communicating. Never say that you have trouble socially interacting with other people; for if you do, you’ll get the very results you predicted. Instead, choose to remind yourself that you ARE good at socially interacting with other people; for if you do, again, you’ll most likely get the results you predicted.

          Hell no, I’m not going to cut you any slack. And you better not cut any for yourself either.

        • #3185060

          We’re all broken

          by elph ·

          In reply to I’m never offended

          We’re all broken – in some way or another. It’s all about recognizing that and moving on with your life, enjoying the experience and the opportunity that you have to spend that lifetime trying to improve upon the particular character flaws you’re blessed with.

          Read “As a Man Thinketh” by James Allen. It’s a quick read and is very useful in assisting a person in looking in the mirror and retraining self-thought and self-development.

          As far as getting a job – the very best thing a person can do, IMO, is role play. Find someone that is willing to do this with you, if possible – but if not, print out several sample interview questions and read them to yourself and then sit in front of a mirror and practice how you would respond to them. If it helps, you can even write out your responses and then read them over and over until you have them memorized. The purpose of this exercise is to practice, in your mind’s eye, what it’s like to be in conversation with someone and how you look and respond as you answer questions. The more you practice this way (though it may sound a little weird) the more relaxed and confident you will come across in any interview going forward. Also make a point of having at least 5 questions for the interviewer – make these honest questions about how the business operates and how your position fits into their business model. Try to ask 2 to 3 of these questions at the end of your interview. This will facilitate greater interest in you as a candidate and will help make you stick in the interviewers mind.

          Good luck.

        • #3190185

          Executive Summary

          by too old for it ·

          In reply to We’re all broken

          “We’re all broken – in some way or another.”

          I think this is the best executive summary, words to live by, Chinese fortune cookie, eternal truth … whatever … that I have seen in years.

          Bravo, Elph!

    • #3190092

      Reply To: How to find a job?

      by the admiral ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      Shaun, Get your resume to a resume professional! You need to update keywords and attempt to get rid of the student and other references to when it was non-professional. A resume injection will get you into a great area!

    • #3188559

      forget the resumes

      by malcolm davis ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      Yes, we all have to have resumes to show, but most of the resumes I see, this one included, are bull.

      I get high paying job offers all the time. How? Reading, writing, talking, and continue to code by doing some projects for free. Basically networking.

      Questions:
      ? Are you a member of IEEE?
      ? Do you attend and present at local technology group meetings?
      ? You live in Texas, are you working toward your Software Engineering Professional License?
      ? Do you have a BLOG?
      ? Are you published via technical articles?
      ? Have you read either Steve McConnell?s ?Rapid Development? or Bertrand Meyer?s ?Object-Oriented Software Construction??

      With all the experience you ?CLAIM? to have, you should have answered ?YES? to all these questions.

      • #3188358

        Reply To: How to find a job?

        by shaunbed ·

        In reply to forget the resumes

        – Are you a member of IEEE?

        I was until I ran out of money.

        – Do you attend and present at local technology group meetings?

        No, but I really should. I am kind of a loner.

        – You live in Texas, are you working toward your Software Engineering Professional License?

        No, I don’t have the requisite experience. You need 10 years professional experience to get this and I can’t document that.

        ? Do you have a BLOG?

        No, but again I should.

        ? Are you published via technical articles?

        I plan on being commented in the next edition of the Art of Computer Virus Research, etc but I am not published. I would really like to write a book on incremental development but until I have experience as a lead, I don’t think many people would care for my advice.

        ? Have you read either Steve McConnell?s ?Rapid Development? or Bertrand Meyer?s ?Object-Oriented Software Construction??

        Yes, to almost everything Steve McConnell has written. No, to Bertrand Meyer but yes to probably 50 or 60 other Software Engineering books.

        • #3194357

          more, forget the resumes

          by malcolm davis ·

          In reply to Reply To: How to find a job?

          * Are you a member of IEEE?

          >> I was until I ran out of money.

          [Consider just joining IEEE Computing, a sub group of IEEE. Less expensive.]

          * Do you attend and present at local technology group meetings?

          >> No, but I really should. I am kind of a loner.

          [Get over the loner part. If you want a job, you need to contact people. If you are into Java, search for your local group at http://developers.sun.com/jugs/display/search.jsp ]

          * You live in Texas, are you working toward your Software Engineering Professional License?

          >> No, I don’t have the requisite experience. You need 10 years professional experience to get this and I can’t document that.

          [You said you had 16 years, but now you say you don’t have the experience? I would pull the 16 years.]

          * Do you have a BLOG?

          >> No, but again I should.

          [Go to Goolge and set up a blog. Make sure it stays technical.]

          * Are you published via technical articles?

          >> I plan on being commented in the next edition of the Art of Computer Virus Research, etc but I am not published. I would really like to write a book on incremental development but until I have experience as a lead, I don’t think many people would care for my advice.

          [Start off small with something you know and have done several times. 1000-1500 words. Submit the work to multiple online publications. There are many places on the web that will review your work and make comments.]

          * Have you read either Steve McConnell?s ?Rapid Development? or Bertrand Meyer?s ?Object-Oriented Software Construction??

          >> Yes, to almost everything Steve McConnell has written. No, to Bertrand Meyer but yes to probably 50 or 60 other Software Engineering books

          [50 or 60 other Software Engineering books but not Bertrand Meyer? Weird. Are your other books Engineering or technology specific? Personally, I only know of about 20-30 good software engineering books, everything else is technology specific.]

        • #3194342

          Reply To: How to find a job?

          by shaunbed ·

          In reply to more, forget the resumes

          [Get over the loner part. If you want a job, you need to contact people. If you are into Java, search for your local group at http://developers.sun.com/jugs/display/search.jsp ]

          I heavily agree. I have started working on a blog and working in this direction but not much yet.

          [You said you had 16 years, but now you say you don’t have the experience? I would pull the 16 years.]

          This is documentable experience as a software lead type position in a company. Not many people have this experience. I may have programmed for 16 years but I definitely was not a lead the entire time and documentability is questionable because I am only 26 now.

          * Are you published via technical articles?

          [Start off small with something you know and have
          done several times. 1000-1500 words. Submit the work to multiple online publications. There are many places on the web that will review your work and make comments.]

          I will do. I am going to work on this.

          [50 or 60 other Software Engineering books but not Bertrand Meyer? Weird. Are your other books Engineering or technology specific? Personally, I only know of about 20-30 good software engineering books, everything else is technology specific.]

          I didn’t say they were all good. Some were fairly aweful. I probably haven’t read Betrand because I try to use services like InformIT Safari to save money.

        • #3194285

          you don’t have to be a lead

          by malcolm davis ·

          In reply to Reply To: How to find a job?

          I guess I’m missing something. You don’t have to be a lead on a project or position to have experience in a position. For instances, if you have been using source control, you have source control experience. If you haven?t used source control, download free software like CVS, and start using on your projects. Even if it’s just you, you can get CVS experience.

          Start at any position, not just development. A great way to learn the company?s product is to start of in a support position. Even mention to the interview, ?I would like to be involved in product support for the first 3-6 months to help facilitate my learning the company and the product.?

          Indeed.com might help with job hunting. However, I?ve almost always relied on word of mouth.

          Professional development ideas from Steve McConnell
          http://www.construx.com/professionaldev/individual/

          http://www.construx.com/professionaldev/organization/pdl/

    • #3188339

      The Temp Solution

      by raven2 ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      Networking is the name of the game, the ol’ it’s not what you know, it is who you know. Thousand of less qualifed people are getting jobs every day, so why not you.

      I have three Suggestions.
      One, find your local Tempoary Technical Staffing service, find our who is the strongest in your area and get to know them. Find one of the staffing specialiststs in that organization that you like and work with them, if you make their job easy they will get you work. If you have a list of companies that you want to try to get into, ask them to help. Treat the whole thing as extended job interviews, you get to see if you really want to work for company X, and they get to see your qualities. Check out the Temp agencies policies about releasing their “placements” to work full time for their employment clients.

      Two, find people to do Informational interviews with, even if you have a lot of skills every company has its own tweaks. Use this to find out about companies, career paths, and other questions. Using Informational Interviews can be a great way to have your resume reviewed, your ideas evaluated, and gather information about potential jobs in a less tense atmosphere than a formal job interview.

      Three, look into personal coaching, a good coach can help you define your goals, develop your network, teach you how to interview, and a whole host of other things. Have a clear idea of what you want to accomplish, ask for references, and take control of your life.

      Todays world is one of constant change, you need the skills to be able to change career direction without getting tangled up. The current wisdom has it that people will have up to 7 distinct careers in a lifetime.

      Good Luck

    • #3193941

      resume needs work

      by hellums ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      As others mentioned, the resume is the key area to focus. It has to be confident, comprehensive, concise, and well organized. Here’s an alternate take. Better? Worse? You be the judge.

      ———————————————
      Shaun Bedingfield – Software Engineer, Application Developer

      19606 Cottage Park Circle, Houston, TX 77094 | 281-579-3549 | 832-483-7858 | shaunbed@swbell.net

      Degree/Certifications
      ———————-
      B.S.C.S. – University of Texas, Dallas (3.7 GPA)
      MCAD – .Net Microsoft Certified Application Developer

      Skill Summary
      ————-
      C#, C/C++, Java, PHP, Tcl/Tk, Javascript, HTML, UML, XML/XSL, WSDL, ASP, ASP.NET, ADO.NET, VB.NET, Visual Basic, VBA, ActiveX, x86 Assembly Language, SOAP, SQL, SQL Server, MS Access, data parsing, IIS, OOD/OOAD, MS Office, Sun Solaris

      IT Experience
      ————-
      2/05 – Present
      MS Access designer, Southwest Memorial Hermann Hospital. Integrated SQL, VBA, ActiveX for stroke treatment system. Trained staff and performed risk management.

      1/05 – Present
      DBA, Ben Taub General Hospital, DBA. Maintenance and status reporting for volunteer tracking and scheduling database. Trained staff, provided customer support.

      7/02 – 11/02
      Software Engineer, Neovox. Designed and implemented solutions for data access over cellular and other voice channels. Interfaces included Nuance telephony hardware and SQL Server 2000, MySQL, PHP, Java, .NET, C#, ASP/ADO.NET.

      1/02 – 3/04
      Hardware and software sales specialist, Officemax
      Progressively more responsibility providing customer support and sales-related activities to customers. Effectively maintained floor space and equipment to maximize sales.

      5/00 – 7/01
      Research Assistant, University of Texas at Dallas
      Mentored computer science students and provided extensive testing of university application related to collection of telecommunication metrics.

      1/98 – 3/00
      Software development intern, Texas Instruments
      Key member of joint application development effort. Constructed a user interface for a program that generated automatic test code.

      Bedingfield shaunbed@swbell.net (281) 579-3549

    • #3194457

      Adjust resume and job approach

      by ramonart ·

      In reply to How to find a job?

      As someone who has been both an IT hiring manager, employee and consultant, I find that one resume does not fit all. First, you need to know who is going to look at your resume – is it an IT professional or an HR person with no technology background? I recommend that you shape your resume to the job requirements – don’t lie about what you can do, but focus on the skills they are looking for. Also, focus on specifics of how your work helped the company – especially in cost or time savings – practical results of your work can be a big selling point. If possible, research the company that you are applying to – if the company has a web site and product demos, investigate to get a feel for the company needs and culture. Integrate this knowledge into your cover letter and resume so that you provide direct information about how you can fulfill their needs. I don’t recommend the scatter shot approach to sending resumes to every job listing you find – be deliberate so that you are applying to only those jobs that fit your skill level. Sometimes you may have to use an entry level job as a stepping stone to get the experience that you need. If you truly have skill, you should be able to progress quickly to a higher level or you will at least get the “experience time” under your belt to move on to better things. It is a tough job market, but you can be successful if you can effectively sell yourself in both your written and verbal communications. Often I have interviewed people who have decent technical skills, but who merely answer questions and seem rather subdued in the interview. Show enthusiasm (but not desperation) and knowledge about the company’s needs and how you can help them. Confidence in yourself will help people to have confidence in you. Good Luck!

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