Hardware·18,997 discussions

I may never fly again

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Next month, I’m travelling from Denver, to Phoenix, to San Diego, to Las Vegas, and back to Denver. (A combination of work and pleasure.)

I’m on the verge of finalizing my travel plans. At first, I was planning to combine flying and rental cars. But I’ve decided to drive the entire trip. I’m simply not going to subject myself to the inconvenience – and indignity – of what it takes to fly. Instead, I choose to drive across the Rocky Mountains in the middle of winter – both ways. If you’ve never driven across the Continental Divide in January, you’ve missed a once-in-a-lifetime – and possibly a harrowing – experience. But it’s better than flying over it in today’s day and age.

I’m tired of our government (controlled by either party) treating the symptoms of terrorism instead of attacking the disease.

As such, I might never step foot onto a commercial airliner again.

How about you? What do you think?

Topic

Quit your damned defiance

In reply to I may never fly again

Put with it up.

But within days after 9/11 I had to fly all the way back east because somebody died.

Degrading? Yes.

Then, again, couple years later, had to fly back with a one-way after delivering a vehicle to a dear one.

Degrading? Oh, yes. Right down to public exposure of pubic hairs.

I, too, have said, screw you. I have since driven thousands of miles, so that, primarily, I may do so packing serious weaponry. This is also a pain in the ass. Specially when you run unintended into law enforcement (skated, which I get to do, arranging beforehand to appear as a confused and harmless senior — but not, now, having divulged same here).

Only advice I can give you is, henceforth, to keep your head down and your mouth shut. Go nowhere. Do nothing.

Unless, you have to. Like, when somebody dies and you are sucked into that whole thing.

This will test you as to your connection to the rest of us.

Work out all your calculations and look at alternatives or

In reply to I may never fly again

1. taxi to bus terminal, commercial coach to the other city, car rental at that end.

2. taxi to train stations, train to nearest city, car rental at that end.

3. rental of private plane and avoid the commercial airline terminal crap.

While I agree somewhat

In reply to I may never fly again

I will fly..

I hate the hassle of it..but I love to go places and that requires me to fly.

My approach is a simple one, arrive early, follow the rules, keep my mouth shut..and I generally have an ok time.

My projected USA trip next Fall is looking a little less likely

In reply to I may never fly again

If all goes well at work then I should be in line for a six week sabbatical – paid holiday! – in September because of my length of service. I was tentatively planning a road trip in the USA, Canada to Mexico, North to South, taking in a few sights and visiting a few peers on the way.

I’m still thinking road trip but now I’m thinking car all of the way and that means Europe.

The current wait for security at Gatwick, my local airport, is four hours for transatlantic flights. Some airlines have stopped showing in-flight entertainment because the maps that show your current position “could be used by terrorists”. Gah! I’m not sure I could do seven hours with just my own thoughts…twice! I certainly can’t carry enough books for that length of time.

But I’m not allowed anything on my lap so I can’t read a book!

Oh, and stay in your seat for the last hour of the flight.

And US planes are dangerous.

The guy’s father reports to the US Embassy that his son is dangerously radicalised and no-one flags that up? This person has “a significant terrorist connection” and is not allowed into the UK yet was given a visa and allowed to fly to the USA!

I would seem that the UK is considered a “terrorist hub” by the US authorities. What we have is a Nigerian Muslim extremist who gets a US Visa despite his father warning the US authorities, boards a plane in Amsterdam where Dutch security officials miss the explosives which he is carrying.

His only connection to the UK is that he used to study at UCL so the obvious solution is to harass, annoy and humiliate British passengers bound for the USA even further.

Nah…

It may change by September but I would guess not.

Neil 🙁

Books for a long flight, get a good e-book reader that uses

In reply to My projected USA trip next Fall is looking a little less likely

memory cards and get a pile of books stored on cards. Carry on in your pocket, but get to security early so they can safely go through it all and confirm it’s OK. You can carry about 100 hours reading no trouble, that way. The best are about the size of an average paperback and only about a finger width deep.

As to who to fly with, only three airlines to consider for that type of flight – British Airways, Qantas, Royal Dutch Airlines.

Ernest, the point about reading material

In reply to Books for a long flight, get a good e-book reader that uses

is that currently it seems that you can’t put anything on your lap on some airlines lest you be “hiding” the activator for your explosive underpants.

That would, I guess, include notebook or laptop which would normally be loaded up with a couple of films, paper book or any sort of ebook. Anyway, no way am I going to fork out good money for an ebook. I hate them.

Generally I go Virgin transatlantic. BA are a tad expensive and quite likely to be on strike, anyway. Never tried Quantas or RD.

🙂

gee, with nothing in the lap area, how do they deal with the

In reply to Ernest, the point about reading material

food trays? hmmm.

The best e-book readers you hold in your hand, just like a paperback book.

I put my paperback in my lap. No text.

In reply to gee, with nothing in the lap area, how do they deal with the

.

I don’t think they’ve really thought it through

In reply to gee, with nothing in the lap area, how do they deal with the

I’m not going until September/October so I’ll see what the situation is then.

The best paperback books you hold in your hand, just like e-book readers.

🙂

I understand

In reply to My projected USA trip next Fall is looking a little less likely

And am saddened by your- very understandable- choice. Still, I would rather know that you are safe.

I have threatened to immigrate to the UK at a later point in my life. Do boats still make the crossing?

(((hugs)))
😡

Several cruise liners still do, check out the major cruise ship

In reply to I understand

line web sites. Or you can buy a good ocean worthy yacht and sail yourself.

I went there…

In reply to I understand

I went there for two weeks for a boyscout trip about 17 years ago. I’d live there; it is a wonderful country. I want to go back to visit now that I am older so that I can appreciate it more.

Oh, you may get to see me yet

In reply to I understand

I’m just having a general moan. I hate to think that the terrorists have won and, if we continue to shrink into ourselves, they have.

I still want to see The Rockies close up, Yellowstone and the Mississippi among others.

As to getting across The Pond, the best way to get across is to take passage on a cargo boat as they quite often have spare cabins.

{{Bone-cracking Hugs}}

😡

The Mississippi?

In reply to Oh, you may get to see me yet

It’s overrated, just another river. The Straits of Mackinaw between Upper and Lower Michigan, or Niagara Falls are more attractive American water features.

I live in a place

In reply to The Mississippi?

Where we have both the Mississippi River AND Lake Superior. Superior is the more attractive of the two- significantly so.

Duluth in the fall is breath-taking.

The Canadian side of the falls

In reply to The Mississippi?

is much more scenic. Plus if you are a fan of kitsch you can’t miss all the attractions.

James

RE: Canadian Side of the falls

In reply to The Canadian side of the falls

I would have to agree with that…but ideally, one would cross the bridge & vist both sides.

In 3 weeks

In reply to My projected USA trip next Fall is looking a little less likely

my other half is flying to the US…
kinda glad i not going..I’d say its going to be a nightmare..

Neil..as for the 7 hours with your own thoughts..my approach is to sleep 🙂

Well, Neil

In reply to My projected USA trip next Fall is looking a little less likely

If all goes well, I’ll be coming across the pond for another visit in 2011.

If so, I’ll make sure to have a few days in London.

I have a mate there who is a PC tech sort too, and he wants me to go on a crawl with him and his rugby mates one night. So, I might end up one night off on a bender.

As well, I am probably going to have company with me when I travel next.

But when I come across, it is a MUST that you and I have a sit-down for a pint or 4 and catch up.

I am willing to brave the dangers of traffic and multitude of drinking establishments down London way to visit! :^0

Hope all is well. Cheers 🙂

Two “Hope and Change” wishes for me

In reply to My projected USA trip next Fall is looking a little less likely

I hope things change and you make your fall USA trip; and I hope you’re trip brings you close enough to my neck of the woods so we can finally make that connection.

I am posting this

In reply to I may never fly again

2100 miles from my home- where cats are wondering where in h*ll their salmon is.

I am here and not there so that I can see my family. My father is failing and there is a distinct possibility that I won’t be able to attend his funeral.

As I write, I am as close to an airport- about three miles away- as I intend to get. We drove it in two days. Going home, we plan to take three. Two is just too hard on him.

I am infuriated with the public statements from our president- basically, “I told them to fix this!” Whatever. What I haven’t heard or expect to hear is what Mr Obama intends to do to address the REASONS that critical intelligence elements weren’t glued together. What is HE planning to do about the lack of communication? How does he plan to lead the worker bees to a more cohesive communication model? Shouldn’t we be allowed to ASK that question? If not, why is it not being asked?

Telling us how massive oversights are unacceptable is not enough. Telling us HOW you intend to address the failure of communication across governmental (???) lines makes for a better and more informative speech.

THAT’S what I call CHANGE.

The problem with the lack of communication

In reply to I am posting this

is it’s disturbing like the lack of communication before the Sept. 11th attacks. In both cases, suspects were pre-identified ‘in the system’, but the information didn’t reach those who could act on it. The institutions involved have learned nothing in the the last eight years. So much for the value of putting everything under a new, now apparently unnecessary cabinet agency.

I don’t fly much; question.

In reply to I may never fly again

But I go from Columbia SC to Pittsburgh PA every couple of years. I’m seriously considering driving next time, but I was considering that even before the recent incident.

Can someone explain the security advantages of remaining seated, without MP3 players, books, or bathroom, ONLY during the last hour of a flight? What is it about that time period that makes disruptive activity more threatening than halfway through the flight, say, over the Atlantic?

As to indignity, I don’t find the actions as insulting as the attitude of some TSA / airport employees. I’ve been pulled for wanding a couple of times; the security person was polite and I didn’t regard it as a problem.

In at least two airports (Las Vegas in 2004 and Atlanta in ’07 and ’09), employees routinely stand around yelling instruction at crowds of passengers. Why not at make printed instructions available? Hartsfield, how about painting arrows on the tile instead of paying someone to scream about what line to get in?

And the next rude screener I get (not often, but it does happen), I’m stripping to my drawers right there in line.

Palmy

In reply to I don’t fly much; question.

printed instructions?? you must be joking..
90% of all airline passengers are mentally empty and are all canidates for Darwin awards..

I have stood in the line for security, with HUGE printed signs, every 3 feet, saying to get in X line, remove your belt, empty you pockets ect ect..the same sign every 3 feet, and then a big huge sign sayign the same as you get near the top ,AND an employee saying “empty yer pockets..ect”

and still, 50% of the idiots don’t.. and they then waste MY time by standing there, preping themseves..

I don’t have a problem with the staff, its the other idiot passengers.. personally, i think you shoul dbe quizzed to see if your too stupid to fly..things would be a lot easier if so

Exactly.

In reply to Palmy

The last time I had to fly was back in 2005. At both ends of the trip, I removed shoes, belt and all items from pockets into the bucket. Said bucket went through x-ray machine, I went through metal detector. The process was smooth. It people would get off their high horse and actually READ the damn sign and figure that it actually MAY apply to them, things would go smoother.

On a side note, on the return trip, my carry on bag got a little extra attention due to all the souvenir’s that I had purchased plus a few electronic things (cell phones, camera etc) must have looked interesting in the x-ray. I didn’t care. Open my bags, riffle through my underwear; I don’t care. I have nothing to hide.

yup..

In reply to Exactly.

when travelling to/from canada..my carry on always gets checked..i must look suspicious or something :0
I don’t care though..go one poke around..as you, i’ve nothing to hide..

and Pamly, as for the rude staff..if you had to deal with all the idiots they have to..you’d likely be rude as well..i wouldn’t do thier job if it was the last job on earth

I know a real smart arse, since they started checking bag

In reply to Exactly.

contents in just about any suspicion, he’s starts carrying some fancy ladies lingerie in his bag. He gets a good laugh when the guys pawing through his luggage finds it in the middle of the bag, they get all embarrassed, as he intended.

harsh!

In reply to I know a real smart arse, since they started checking bag

way i see it, they doing thier job.. same as you or i do..
some do it better than others with a bit more of a smile, but at the end of the day I’m sure they are just as annoyed with checking people’s bags as we are having our bags checked..

true for some, but way too many think it’s great fun

In reply to harsh!

and the ones who are just good, simply smile and move on.

The Last Hour

In reply to I don’t fly much; question.

If you take another flight, watch the cabin crew during that last hour. They are busy stowing the food carts and the trash along with other tasks in preparation for landing.

While the crew is busy and the maximum number of passengers are sleeping is the optimum time to do something unusual.

Of course, in this incidence, the terrorist might have fallen asleep and just woke up and realized he had to act quickly.

On the other hand, the last hour restrictions could also be part of the reactionary response to each attack. Since this goof acted in the last hour of the flight, that must be when they all plan to act.

Chas

Maximum damage

In reply to The Last Hour

If the goal of an attack was to bring a plane with a couple hundred people down, that could happen any time in the flight. But if they wanted to inflict more damage on the ground, the last half hour of descent turns the plane into an unguided missile, usually over heavily populated areas. Isn’t that why the flights into Reagan Airport (DC) went through lockdown as they approached?

It is, of course,

In reply to I don’t fly much; question.

[i]What is it about that time period that makes disruptive activity more threatening than halfway through the flight, say, over the Atlantic?[/i]

the intended audience!

Is this their goal?

In reply to I may never fly again

Max,

I do wonder if part of the tactics the terrorist groups are using is to see how much indignity, inconvenience and lost productivity we will accept in order to keep flying.

Or, how much money we are willing to spend on hi-tech security equipment.

On the other hand, their goal might be to just restrict our freedoms. After all, when you listen to man on the street interviews, far too many people are of the mindset that they will accept any security measures that are deemed necessary.

If we take the search and restriction method to it’s extreme, how long before we need to strip prior to entering the secure area of the airport? And, our baggage and clothing are shipped to the destination on a different plane.

For me, the biggest problem I have is the reactionary way we respond to each attempt. Sure, there should not be another shoe bomber. We have at least reduced the risk of another underwear bomber. But, what are we doing to anticipate and stop the next form of attack?

Chas

How would that be different?

In reply to Is this their goal?

“…our baggage and clothing are shipped to the destination on a different plane.”

Hell, mine’s already on a different plane most of the time anyway.

Oh, you meant intentionally.

Now that’s just funny….

In reply to How would that be different?

Maybe you’d actually get your luggage on the same plane with you the way they tend to mess things up 😀

I think their goals are two-fold

In reply to Is this their goal?

To kill us and/or destroy our way of life – in no particular order.

Just had a thought

In reply to I may never fly again

Ok..after The Shoe Bomber, we all have to remove our shoes and boots..

The Underpants Bomber.. this could be interesting…

waiting until they catch the suicide bomber who uses

In reply to Just had a thought

explosive suppositories – now THAT could get interesting as a regular search.

BTW Some drug carriers do carry drugs that way too.

bwahahaha

In reply to waiting until they catch the suicide bomber who uses

OMG that was a funny thought…some radical with a fuse out from his bum. :^0

That’s why you can’t go to the can.

In reply to bwahahaha

If you can’t go to the can, you can’t drop trou to light the fuze. Of course, lighting the fuze in the john violates the smoking regulations, so that by itself will probably deter any threats.

ahhhhhgggg

In reply to waiting until they catch the suicide bomber who uses

nasty !!!!!

see..i brought up this question last night..

how much pain is that guy in? I mean, his underpants were on fire-ish? His meat and 2 veg must have felt the heat like…

New method…

In reply to ahhhhhgggg

Must be a new method of castration :O

Oh, good

In reply to ahhhhhgggg

Not that I’m in anyway vindictive but I do hope that he’s in a certain amount of pain.

🙂

My evil twin

In reply to ahhhhhgggg

Rather enjoys the idea that he will likely not have to worry about his desire for women for some time to come.

Golly! I do hope that they feed him plenty of roughage and fiber!

They can’t search my underwear…

In reply to Just had a thought

if I don’t wear any 😉 :^0 ]:)

now THAT could make for an interesting line search – ntt

In reply to They can’t search my underwear…

.

Yes indeed

In reply to now THAT could make for an interesting line search – ntt

And if I got a cute security girl to do it, I might not fly and stay for dinner and a cocktail too. :^0

hehe..

In reply to They can’t search my underwear…

beat airline security checks…go commando! 😀

damn skippy

In reply to hehe..

And…by God, it better be a cute girl…or I’m cashing in my ticket!!! ]:) :^0

Want to make sure you never sleep on a plane again?

In reply to I may never fly again

Watch and pay attention to how easy it is for people with small children to bring on liquids and powders. Not very comforting at all.

This past summer, my family went to Disney World. We brought along powder formula, water, pre-made formula and a variety of other baby-specific items. I knew these were permissible, but I figured they’d at least run the stuff with a wand to make sure everything was on the up and up.

NOPE. Didn’t even spot check to make sure the seal on the pre-made formula was still in tact; just fast-tracked us on through the line. I spent the entirety of both flights (to and from Orlando) watching the other passengers.

Given what the cowardly crazies have already done (using the mentally handicapped as human bombs), is it really a stretch to think they’d start sending families on planes? I think not.

We’re going to Texas to visit family in March. I’m leaning heavily towards taking Amtrak.

I often wonder about airport employees

In reply to Want to make sure you never sleep on a plane again?

Specifically, the people who work in the shops and restaurants beyond the security checkpoint. Are they wanded / scanned / x-rayed / wiped when they come on for each shift? What keeps them from bringing a block of C4 and handing it to their passenger buddy? Do their employers spend the money on background checks for minimum wage jobs?

Got a story for you

In reply to I often wonder about airport employees

My brother-in-law’s cousin was a convict. Burglary, armed robbery, drug possession. He’s done some hard time.

Well, guess what job he was able to secure for a couple months because a certain government agency was more concerned with quickly staffing up than they were in conducting rigorous background checks (and never got around to a p_ss test, which he surely would have failed). That’s right, he was one of the TSA agents checking people to make our flights safe.

It took two months for the background check to come back showing the felony convictions.

On the bright side, before he got canned, he was able to walk away with a box full of detection wands which he sold to night clubs for use on patrons.

Happy flying, America!

A number of the hijackings that took place during the 1980s

In reply to I often wonder about airport employees

were made possible by the hijackers collecting their weapons etc AFTER they boarded the aircraft as accomplices working in the airport cleaning crews carried them on board and hide them on the aircraft for them.

My belief is this

In reply to I may never fly again

A) Our government sucks at keeping tabs on who is or isn’t coming in or out of the country. They need to get WAY better.

B) All the security stuff at airports is being ridiculed by so many. I’d rather get patted-down than blown up. I don’t know about you.

The system needs a LOT of improvement. But, the last administration had 7 years to beef up the system and it’s still lackluster.

Hopefully, the current administration does better at making changes that matter.

BTW, I’m still all for us instituting security in travel terminals like the Israelis have:

– Armed military with search dogs walking all parts (including baggage handling terminals and all)

– Signs all over stating that you submit to search at any time as soon as you set foot on the premises.

That’s my idea of security. Military trained guards with automatic weapons who can search anyone at anytime whenever they have any doubt.

And like I said: Rather be secure and feel a little uneasy? Or, risk being killed by some radical?

Choice is yours, America.

Best anti-hijacking device is a solid metal door to the

In reply to My belief is this

cockpit and the crew are locked in for the duration of the flight. They should design the aircraft this way from the start, it will mean they need a toilet and little kitchenette in there too, but hey, no contact and the plane can’t be redirected.

two things about that

In reply to Best anti-hijacking device is a solid metal door to the

They should just design the planes with 2-3 bathrooms in the back for passengers, and make the first class cabin bathrooms in most airliners for the cockpit crew.

Then, they could have a little lockable window for them to be served their meals. Or, just have a cabinet where they have a food store to choose from.

Of course, all that does no good if a device goes off and breaks the plane in half.

Sidewinders and other SAMs are very good at breaking

In reply to two things about that

planes in half, and if that’s what you’re after, why send a suicide bomber on board the plane to begin with.

oh yeah, I know

In reply to Sidewinders and other SAMs are very good at breaking

there’s lots of ways. I just don’t see a terrorist carrying on a missle anytime soon. :^0

What I was alluding to was that no matter how secure the cockpit is, a highly explosive mixture at the right place interior to the aircraft fuselage would not be prevented.

Once they get the scanning/searching effective and there’s almost zero chance of explosives making it on-board, then the cockpit idea is almost fullproof.

The thing is, a smart person who’s intent on bringing down

In reply to oh yeah, I know

just any plane, not one with a specific passenger on board, would just sit in a motor vehicle about half a mile or a mile from the airport and shoot it down with a SAM as it takes off or lands. They get away, and the plane goes down. Simple, and the security people are doing squat about it, despite it having been done in the Middle East a few times already.

True

In reply to The thing is, a smart person who’s intent on bringing down

Of course, how many smart terrorists have you seen?

The really smart (meaning having some measurable intelligence) are the leaders, who make the plans, design the devices, and let the idiots go out and kill themselves so they can sit there and be a sponge.

They let the lemmings go jump off the cliff, while they live in luxury usually and don’t have to worry about sacrifice.

Planes are chump change.

In reply to The thing is, a smart person who’s intent on bringing down

Hijack a liquidified natural gas tanker and head for a major harbor. Go BOOM. The authorities won’t be able to estimate the number of buildings destroyed, much less lives lost.

Ship a dozen cargo containers of a biological contaminant. Only one in one hundred gets checked coming into the US, so there’s a great chance more than one will get through.

I don’t do this for a living and I can come up with deadlier tools than a hijacked airplane. As someone else noted, the government’s policy is developed by reacting to the latest high-profile incident.

Palmetto, if you want a real BIG bang, simply set off the

In reply to The thing is, a smart person who’s intent on bringing down

fuel farm at any fair sized airport, and watch a couple of suburbs go into orbit, and planes just landing will likely end up on the moon.

Hm

In reply to The thing is, a smart person who’s intent on bringing down

Really wanna see a big boom? Check out this vid. Rocket fuel for the space shuttle = BIG boom. :^0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k41b9D10Vw

Watch the 2nd explosion, and the shockwave drop a building like it was nuclear.

Still amazes me.

jck, rocket fuel is in limited supply

In reply to The thing is, a smart person who’s intent on bringing down

and may be hard to come by. I like Ernie’s fuel farm, although hijacking a tanker shouldn’t be too much trouble. Piracy isn’t limited to Somalia and Indonesia.

Well if you need something that isn’t in short supply

In reply to The thing is, a smart person who’s intent on bringing down

Just go to some ranch at night, sneak in their barns, and steal the fertilizers a couple hundred pounds at a time.

You get about 1,000 lbs of that and the right agents to mix with it, you can flatten a city block.

That’s the scary part. That 2,000 lbs in OK City could have been way more destructive if those guys would have known what they were doing.

Lucky I’m not some nutjob thinking I can cure the social issues and government bureaucracy with a bunch of chemicals.

jck, not any old fertiliser will do – you have to pick the right

In reply to The thing is, a smart person who’s intent on bringing down

one, mix it properly with another material (I ain’t saying what), and use something like gelignite as a detonator for it. I used to mix this stuff up to blow up rabbit warrens on a cousin’s farm. It’s real fun stuff, easy to make, when you know how, and can blow up in your face if you mix it wrong.

Yeah

In reply to The thing is, a smart person who’s intent on bringing down

There’s some creative things you can do mixingh certain fertilizers, household chemicals, etc., that will make explosive compounds that have a relatively low ignition point, has a high explosive yield, and are entirely portable.

And yeah, I realize you can’t use just any fertilizer. I wasn’t thinking of a bag of cow manure. :^0

I remember too when me and one of my best friends in my youth stumbled upon how to make chemical weapon of sorts from a household chemical, aluminum foil, some soft drink, and 2 other things I won’t say.

We figured out later what the chemical reaction was doing and what it produced, and decide not to make another one.

“Napalm, napalm, sticks like glue”

In reply to The thing is, a smart person who’s intent on bringing down

Can you still get that unnamed powdered product to mix with gasoline?

Best way to commit suicide, jck

In reply to The thing is, a smart person who’s intent on bringing down

Drop your ammonia-soaked clothes into the washer and add bleach. Take a nap.

NO pleasant byproducts from that one…

Palmetto and Nick…

In reply to The thing is, a smart person who’s intent on bringing down

Palmetto:

I know what you’re talking about. Add a traditional storage component product to that in crushed form, and you get the real thing.

Nick:

Yeah. I’ve heard of that one. Or use lemon juice concentrate and a home fix-it chemical in a particular style of container. It’ll heat up faster than your oven, and produce a chemical cloud like a plant in Bhopal.

Moderations is nice

In reply to My belief is this

Security, but not being overzelous.

I’m all for the checks ect..but man..i can’t take my tweezers in my carry on??? * sigh *
Dunno..I reckon if your REALLY fit and well trained you could hijack a plane with tweezers… I guess you could take someone’s eye out or soemthing??

Hey Shell, I’m waiting for them to realise that someone can

In reply to Moderations is nice

take over a plane by eating nothing but baked beans and similar foods for a week or more before hand, just so they can gas the passengers and steward staff comatose. Just imagine how the security types will want to handle things after the first attempt like that.

hehe

In reply to Hey Shell, I’m waiting for them to realise that someone can

gas masks 🙂

OMG

In reply to hehe

My best friend flew to Florida in 2001 to visit, and he told me that on the flight down there was a woman of a specific cultural/national origin who smelled to high hell.

He said she was 2 rows back from him, and the smell was just rancid.

I told him he should have complained and had the flight attendants have her go into the lavatory and clean up.

Oh well. He’s nicer than me.

Can’t make that sort of complaint now, as that’s seen as

In reply to OMG

being too personal, just cite them as being an environmental disaster area or a toxic hazard. That’s a different agency, so something may actually happen.

lmao

In reply to Can’t make that sort of complaint now, as that’s seen as

Actually, I have heard of a few incidences where airline personnel have had other passengers complain in the terminal, and they have had conversations with the person of offensive odor and asked them to go into a bathroom and resolve the matter.

It usually works out fine. Some people just don’t realize they smell, because they are accustomed to it.

Isn’t that why…

In reply to Hey Shell, I’m waiting for them to realise that someone can

they have those drop down oxygen masks? For those instances when a passenger let’s the whopper of all farts, the king daddy of flatulence off?

yeah

In reply to Moderations is nice

They do go overboard.

I mean, you can take the seat cushion out, and defend against a tweezer.

I don’t get the idea of not allowing gels and stuff on either, as long as they’re not on your person.

To be honest, they should limit your access to carry-on baggage during the flight. Restrict it to just getting necessary medicines and what not.

People really don’t need to be doing work on a plane, and if they want TV there are usually in-flight video or music. They don’t need their own portable DVD.

I find it silly people think that the plane is their own private little living room, office, or entertainment venue.

It’s a passenger flight, not a bar and lounge.

well…

In reply to yeah

dunno, if yer on a business trip, ya may have to work..
and if yer on a 8 hour flight..gotta do soemthing..

eh

In reply to well…

i was on the flight to Dublin and back twice.

i lived with the on-board entertainment.

i’ve also flown across American dozens of times. (FL to WA 6.5 hours, FL to L.A.-5 hours)

I never once *had* to pull out the laptop and get work done. I waited to get to the hotel or work site.

Besides. If it improves security for everyone, business needs to make the sacrifice that they don’t own employees 24/7 and expect them to work even when in-transit.

nice idea..

In reply to eh

but over here..some people fly to the Uk for a couple hours for work..and the flight is just part of your “working day”..

on board entertainment..ughh…i don’t do “family entertainment” or “chick flicks”..so i take the other approach..i drug myself unconcsious to make it bearable. .. sorry man.. 3 flights, with one of them being 10 hour flight …. to canada.. I have to take things with me to entertain myself.

yeah…but still…

In reply to nice idea..

If it makes things safer, why can’t business sacrifice the 75 mins from Dublin to Birmingham or 50 mins from Dublin to Edinburgh?

Is that couple hours a week that much of a schedule killer?

As for flying to Canada…10 hours? Do you fly to BC or something?

I flew from Atlanta to Dublin in less than 8, and that is not as fast due to shortest path being less polarly-oriented.

I dunno. I’m just one to sacrifice my conveniences and extras to make sure things are secure and safe.

well

In reply to nice idea..

its the case that yer a manager, or whatever, and your going for a meeting..there’s always soemthing to prep on the way there..

flying to canada..well, if going any time other than summer..gotta do Dub to London, london to Calgary, calgary to saskatoon.

lon 2 calgary is 10 hours one way and 9 hours the other way… and then yer still waiting in an airport for a connection..grrrr..and my family get annoyed i don’t pop over every month… go figure..

holy smokes!

In reply to nice idea..

Damn…and I thought I had it bad having to switch flights in just Atlanta, Boston or Newark.

I figured you could go Dublin straight to Toronto, then out from there.

Saskatoon has an airport? :^0

Yeah, I sorta know how you feel.

My mother wants me to come to visit every weekend. 6 hour roundtrip drive…$40 of gas each time…and usually it ends up being a marathon session of “how many computer issues can you fix while you’re here” game.

Ugh.

Oh well. Maybe soon they’ll have airliners with strip clubs on them, and you can go upstairs for a beer and a dance. :^0

taking things for self entertainment – is THAT what you

In reply to nice idea..

call the five bottles of scotch and the toy boy?

Now I’m curious…

In reply to nice idea..

Just what is “self-entertaining” for you, Shell? Hmmmm?? ]:) :^0

Ah…I am devolving. Maybe I need to go home and drink. That usually settles me down. :^0

Oh crap. Only 12:40pm here. 4 more hours 🙁

Only in summer

In reply to nice idea..

Then i can go dublin-toronto-saskatoon…
rest of the time its a 3 leg flight..dang exhausting.
Its a nightmare trip..and I’m being expected to do it twice this year 🙁 Don’t think thats gonna happen…

As for self entertainment..i like the drink and toy boy suggestion 😀 !!!!!!!!

As for anythign else..hehehe..woulnd’t you like to know! (perverts..)

Why yes, Shell

In reply to nice idea..

I would like to know…and…yes…I am. ]:)

That does sound like hell. Sounds worse than the time I had to go from the airport I was at via shuttle to another airport, then fly to Cincinnati, then to Dallas, then wait 3 hours, and then got on a plane to San Fran finally.

11 hours to get out there. Thank God I was going westward. 3 hours of timezones helped.

The list is not well thought out.

In reply to Moderations is nice

Tweezers, nail clippers, pen knifes; bull.

I can do more damage with the hard corners of a laptop. Wonder how sharp an edge I could put on a DVD? I can strangle an attendant with cord on the headphones the airline itself provided, if I forgot to bring my own extra-long set. Scoop some of that liquid out of the toilet; I’ll be it’s pretty caustic.

Some other factors to Israeli procedures

In reply to My belief is this

They conduct background checks on most/all passengers and have random interviews with people.

On top of all that, they’re not concerned with being politically correct and/or the ACLU coming down on them. I hate to say it, but I think this is as much a detriment to security as is funding and incompetent TSA staffers.

I agree

In reply to Some other factors to Israeli procedures

That’s why I’d like the military involved full-time in travel security. When they plan and train, they make an art out of it. They know what they’re doing, and if someone doesn’t know what they’re doing/doesn’t do their job…they get replaced and reassigned.

I’m with you too on the getting the politically-correct stuff out of travel security.

Ya wanna know why we pick mostly Arab-looking people for searches? Because most radical Muslim terrorists are…Arab. Duh.

It’s like saying “We can’t search you for drugs, even though we know you openly promote their use, and currently live in a crack house.”

Wish I didn’t have to fly

In reply to I may never fly again

I must suffer the hassles of flying because I have no intent of driving the Alcan Highway in the winter, or the trip to Prudhoe Bay for the first week in January. Other than that, I prefer to drive. I seldom go beyond Denver but mostly just to the west slope of the Rockies, Grand Junction or Glenwood Springs is the farthest east I need to go. Mostly just the western states and will never go to the northeast again. When traveling with three seventy pound equipment cases beside personal luggage, inspections take far too long and insistance by inspectors to prove the contents operation has forced me to drive everywhere. Over 100,000 miles in rentacars this past year.

Dang man

In reply to Wish I didn’t have to fly

That’s a lot of driving. I feel for ya.

BTW, you going up to that bay? Isn’t that where that Ice Road Truckers show is?

That female trucker is cute. :^0

Be safe on the road, man.

Ice Road farther to the East

In reply to Dang man

The Ice Road is farther to the east, on the other side of the Artic Reserve. The nearest airport to Prudhoe Bay is Dead Horse, but only a couple miles away. The bunk house I often stay in is just off the runway, unless I get to stay in the main housing unit if I’m working for BP. I’ve been doing this driving bit since 9/11 and haven’t had a ticket yet. Plenty of warnings but no tickets. I even had two warnings in one day, twenty minutes and twenty miles apart. One for speeding and the other for an obsured licence plate(on a rentacar). Go figure. Only one accident in thirty years, rear ended in my personal car, but have dumped dozens of flares at night for others in peril.

Wow – I didn’t think my little mini-rant . . . . .

In reply to I may never fly again

…… would have generated so many comments so fast. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, however, as my TR peers are dripping with good ideas and thoughts, and they have no qualms about sharing them.

What made me post, you might ask? Just before I was was going to book a few flights (all of them one-way – and I travel light with only a carry-on), I read a news atricle that included, [i]and during the last hour of a flight, passengers will be told to remain seated with nothing in their laps and their hands in plain sight.[/i]

My hands in plain sight?????????????

Well, they can kiss my……
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……. money goodbye! (What did you think I was going to say?)

It’s asinine

In reply to Wow – I didn’t think my little mini-rant . . . . .

They made up this rule about everybody staying in place and looking innocent in the last hour of the flight because Mr. Jockey Bomber wanted to blow the plane up over his destination city, Detroit. If they are proscribed from that, they would just settle for blowing up the stupid plane in mid-flight. In fact, it would be best for them to go in the bathroom, where they could plant the explosive against the wall, and be free from prying eyes while detonating it. They could even prop up a Koran on the sink to make their last few seconds and their act of mass murder a little more blessed.

Richard Reid, the not-so-bright shoe bomber, was prevented from detonating his shoe because he was trying to do it in his seat. If he just had the common sense to go into the bathroom, he could have done a more careful job of it, and likely been successful with his murder. What was he thinking about, the smoke alarm?

What we might learn from Israeli security:

In reply to I may never fly again

A good article:

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/08/23/what_israeli_security_could_teach_us/

When my wife flew in India, she had a full pat down before each flight

In reply to What we might learn from Israeli security:

An INTIMATE pat down, too. Squeeze boobs, poke crotch, the works. Women guards searched women travelers, and men searched men. It added hours to each day of air travel.

The Israeli technique makes the most sense. I don’t know if you could train 40,000 American security technicians to Israeli standards. I’m not confident that their intelligence or their susceptibility to improvement lends them to being competent at anything.

I’ll be flying to San Diego next week. You have a nice drive.

How Could We Get There?

In reply to What we might learn from Israeli security:

I’m not sure that we in the US could ever get to the level of airport security that Israel has. Further, I don’t believe we could sustain it for long if we did.

At the $9.42 to $25 an hour the US pays airport screeners, and 40 hours of training, you have the issue of finding and keeping a large enough staff that is qualified to perform the task. I suppose we could pay for the training and the staffing with some sort of tax or fee on airline tickets.

Still, I think the key here is the difference in the 2 cultures.

Nearly every citizen of Israel has served in the military. And, every resident in Israel is keenly aware of the tenuous security situation the entire country is in. The citizens of Israel have both empathy with the security staff and deep respect for the mission of protecting the country.

While the US has made great strides in having respect for an individual soldier, many people do not have the same respect and acceptance of a military mission or presence.

Even if we did muster the support and funding for a proactive airport security system, how long would the average US traveler put up with it? I suspect that less than 2 years of no terror incidents and both the airlines and the traveling public would be clamoring for reduced security.

Perhaps we would need to establish a mandatory public service program where everyone spends 2 years in public service to earn their right to vote. People would be placed in jobs based on their skills and future plans.

Chas

attacking the disease

In reply to I may never fly again

Max,

What do you propose for “attacking the disease” as you put it?

Even if somehow the US stopped importing any oil from countries that support terrorism, the global demand would keep enough oil flowing to fund the terrorists. That action in and of itself might even incite more terrorist attacks against the great Satan.

On a military level, any major offensive just results in the groups disbanding. At best moving to a different country or province. At worst, blending in with the local population and waiting for us to leave.

Nor, would we be willing to accept a policy of not flaunting our wealth and heathen ways. Not that that could even work.

We have had enough home grown terrorists to show that democracy alone is not enough.

So how do we attack the disease of terrorism without actually inciting more and larger terrorist attacks?

Chas

What a choice!

In reply to I may never fly again

You can either stand in long lines for hours, submit to a pat down and people going through your luggage, full body scans and now dogs that sniff you for bombs OR drive for hours and hours to get to your destination.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TRAVEL/12/30/bomb.sniffing.dogs/index.html

I can’t say I’d never fly again, but it wouldn’t be my first choice right now.

We have a long way to go to defeat terrorism. Until then, all we can do is try to deter it as best we can. Unfortunately, that means a virtual strip search if you want to get on an airplane.

AV

Actually, AV. . . . .

In reply to What a choice!

The way I’m routing my trip – and adding a few days to it – will make my alternative plan MUCH more enjoyable.

If you make it

In reply to Actually, AV. . . . .

As you said, to San Diego, I know I will feel it as a bump in the night.

If you can spare the extra time . . .

In reply to Actually, AV. . . . .

Its definitely less of a hassle to drive right now.

AV

Amtrak?

In reply to I may never fly again

It costs a good bit more, but where there’s service, it’s an alternative.

But it sure as hell isn’t convenient. If I decide to take the train to visit family in New York, I have to be at the station at 0400. I get back in at 0144.

As far as I can tell from the Amtrak schedules, those are the only two times a train appears in the Columbia Amtrak station: one northbound, the other southbound.

Amtrak

In reply to Amtrak?

Been scaled WAY back since I was a kid. They used to have AmTrak service near where I grew up in the central US, but I think that ceased in the early 80s.

It’s sad really. The cost of getting cheap day labor to put down railroad bed and track would be cheap compared to the cost of backing/bailing-out the airline industry every couple of years. And, railroads tend to last decades.

I know some of the tracks in my hometown were originally laid in the depression era and had standard maintenance in the 50 years they’d been there at that time.

maybe it’s time we all took a chill pill, relaxed, and rode a train. 🙂

I will fly in March

In reply to I may never fly again

And already some of the wackiness that happened this week has been taken off of Canadian flights, with the exception of those that are going to the US.

Yes I’ve complained in the past about my brushes with US airport security. And I agree its more about theatre than actual security in many cases. Note that those trips were business related and I had to suffer those slings and arrows.

But would I give up a flight to Paris, on a once in a lifetime trip, because someone wants me to take my shoes off? No.

Max,Neil you may be absolutely right about the efficacy of these new measures. But foregoing a weeks pleasure for a few minutes of indignity? Max you are fond of saying that we “chose” to be offended, I also say we chose to be indignant, in a narrow sense of the word. If you let the “b@st@rds” get you down, you let them win. If they want to strip search me before I go to Paris, go ahead, I’d like to think its totally unnecessary, but if thats on the path to going to Paris, I think I can live through the minutes of indignity for a week of enjoyment.

Now I haven’t down the drivetime calcs for your trip, but I don’t have any problem with long distance driving. I also have a lot of winter driving in the middle of nowhere under my belt.

If I got the call from the inlaws in Los Angeles that we were needed, I would do whatever they ask. Is the inconvenience factor of driving, finding motels, looking for gas stations and navigating more or less than putting up with security, which usually is over in less than an hour? Only you can answer for yourself.

James

I choose to feel . . . . . . (whatever)

In reply to I will fly in March

You’re absolutely correct, and I do believe that one [i]chooses[/i] to feel certain emotions. A person can learn to suppress (and eliminate) anger, for example, or simply decide to brush-off an insult instead of accepting it.

In this case, I suppose it was the word, indignity, that one might choose to feel or not. There’s different degrees of those feelings, however, whereas one degree might trigger an emotional reaction, while the other triggers a rational response. The difference could be illustrated by considering how a person might get angry at another driver who makes a bone-headed maneuver, perhaps setting-off a road rage incident, versus getting angry about one’s country being attacked without provocation, thereby calling for a well thought-out response. One you could simply brush-off; the other, however, you just won’t stand for.

When I find myself on the freeways amongst jams and congestion, I often decide to exit and take the longer, but less travelled, route. I’d just rather avoid the hassle and aggravation, even if taking the back roads might add some miles and minutes to my trip.

If I had to (or wanted to) fly to Paris, London, or some other far away destination (or even into the NE/SE USA), sure I’d fly to get there, and I certainly wouldn’t let it ruin my trip, my day, or even a single minute. I’d simply grin and bear it. But I seldom venture beyond the geography between the Mississippi River and the Pacific Ocean, and between the Mexican and Canadian borders. I pretty much stay within a thousand mile (or less) radius, and weighing the pros and cons of adding a day (or less) to my travel time seems to fall more and more in favor of choosing to drive instead of fly. Like the busy freeway, [i]I’d just rather avoid the hassle and aggravation, even if taking the back roads might add some miles and minutes to my trip.[/i] Besides, by doing so, I can take a heck of a lot more stuff than I could have otherwise, I won’t have to rent a car, etc.

Edited for the following P.S.

Upon rereading my message, it’s interesting that I said, [i]….one degree might trigger an emotional reaction, while the other triggers a rational response.”[/i]

Our airport security measures are (and have been), in my opinion, emotional reactions, not a rational response.

Max, my view of the majority of airline security is that

In reply to I choose to feel . . . . . . (whatever)

it’s mostly a case of politicians feeling a need to be seen to be doing something, than actually being concerned about something being done properly. After all, how many of the politicians involved in these decisions actually fly commercial services when they travel? Most fly in government planes or private charters.

Moreover, my view of the majority of ANY issue. . . . .

In reply to Max, my view of the majority of airline security is that

…..it’s mostly a case of politicians feeling a need to be seen to be doing something, than actually being concerned about something being done properly – AND they use emotional arguments to do it. (And, like you said, they never apply their laws to themselves.)

Not saying I’m perfect, far from it.

In reply to I choose to feel . . . . . . (whatever)

I am in fact guilty of raging against idiot motorists. Given the commute I have, its almost predetermined that I will have some close calls.

But those are unexpected instances, with no time to prepare. I’m less frustrated by traffic jams on summer Fridays because it is to be expected.

And thats my perspective on airport security. For better or worse, whether or not I believe in its efficacy or rationality, I come to expect it.

In a previous job I had reason to go to a remote part of Ontario about 400 miles away. The only airplanes that flew in to the area were 12 passenger twin prop jobs with mostly young pilots. The safety record wasn’t great and between some incidents on my flights and some on my friends flights, I decided to stop flying. It took more time, and in the dead of winter it was rough, but I don’t regret the decision.

I also chose the drive to Montreal over flying. Given all the hassles, its just easier to drive there, though it is longer. But those hassles include airport parking, dealing with the rental agencies, and the inability to change flights.

So I’m not trying to be critical Max, just offering a perspective.

James

I’ve got the answer to this whole ‘take things off’ problem

In reply to I may never fly again

at the airports. All they need do is bump up the heating in the planes and the airports and have everyone wear close fitting swimwear, no baggy board shorts type stuff at all, with warm clothes and everything else in their carry on bags which get x-rayed. When they leave the plane at their destination, they can get changed before leaving the terminal. Thus, all people in the departure and transit area will be in swim wear – this will have the added advantage of making any waiting or delays much less boring.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!!!

In reply to I’ve got the answer to this whole ‘take things off’ problem

We have a winner here 😀 ]:)

Edit (Afterthought): The thought of me in spandex is not all that great :_| Plus the benefit of not being able to hide anything would be a major plus.

Oh to heck with it all. Just install full body scanners at all airports. Problem solved.

Indeed

In reply to Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!!!

OR

I will volunteer to hand inspect all Victoria’s Secret models’, Playboy, Sports Illustrated Swimsuit models’, and U.S. female college athletes’ airline or charter flights.

It’s the least I could do in service to my country! :^0

Just fly naked

In reply to I’ve got the answer to this whole ‘take things off’ problem

Everybody brings a towel to sit on.

Somehow, I just can’t see the Pope or Pres Obama agreeing

In reply to Just fly naked

to that, although I can see many benefits to it for the security checks.

actually…there’s the idea

In reply to Somehow, I just can’t see the Pope or Pres Obama agreeing

Everyone needs wear clothing like some schools require for kids’ backpacks:

Totally clear material.

Can’t hide anything, and it’s still covering body parts.

Total genius, I am. :^0

Even then

In reply to Just fly naked

There are still orifices that could hide bomb making materials.

We need those full body scans and x-rays to make triple sure theres nothing hiding on the inside.

AV

or a double cavity search – could be interesting to watch – nt

In reply to Even then

.

LMAO

In reply to Even then

Gives new meaning to “blow it out your @ss.”

Thats got to hurt

In reply to LMAO

Chemical burns in the privates. OUCH!

AV :^0

But his constipation will be well and truly cleared when

In reply to Thats got to hurt

the charge goes off, and it will also remove any other itchy feelings he has.

nasty!

In reply to But his constipation will be well and truly cleared when

but i think i heard somewhere before that some of the muslim women bombers have eh..well, used a particular spot to hide explosives??

ouchy ouchy ouchy

With some of the rules for the Muslim sects, that’s about

In reply to But his constipation will be well and truly cleared when

the only way some of them will get a decent bang.

[Author]

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