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I will donate $500

By maxwell edison ·

That might even buy her a one-way ticket without anyone else's help.

It's obvious she's lying, however, because if she'd rather live there, she could and would live there. What's stopping her?

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Clairfication on point of disagreement.

by faradhi In reply to No, you are wrong - on TW ...

I do not disagree that Shehan is being used by those who have an agenda against the war, including the prees. I find them dispicable. Let the woman heal.

Where you are wrong (and you will say I am wrong) is that her speaking out is a Dishonor to her son or the military.

As with almost every discussion on which we are opposed, we have to agree to disagree.

You are correct I can not GIVE you the right to be wrong. This is a right where I will admit that I exercise frequently. Just not in this case.

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Also, in my opinion, YES . . . . .

by maxwell edison In reply to Freedom of Speech is not ...

...Cindy Sheehan IS dishonoring the military, AND her son, AND her country, AND the individual people ever to wear the uniform. In my opinion, she's dishonorable, she's a traitor, and she's an embarrasment. She may not think so, and you may not think so, but I do.

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And I will take a moment to remind you

by Tig2 In reply to Also, in my opinion, YES ...

That you have a RIGHT to say as much.

The fact that I agree has nothing to do with it.

*shaking my head*

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Yup again

by j.lupo In reply to Also, in my opinion, YES ...

Though the reason she is all those things isn't her rhetoric, it is the way in which she does it. Our brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, friends, etc are over their fighting. They get the news and see her, how demoralizing is that? Her son died doing what he believed in, and she belittles that by her comments.

Yes she is grieving, yes she is lashing out, yes she needs help to deal with her grief. However, we need to keep our troops focused, motivated, and cared for. How do you deal with what they have to if you hear and read all that is coming out of the media?

Question: How many of you have written a letter "To some soldier". I have for all those that are over there and don't have any mail. I trie to write one at least once every other week. Just so they know we are still (or at least I am still) supporting them. I don't like the war, the killing, etc. But they are doing what they can to give us the freedom we have now. I will not put them down for that. They have a hard enough job.

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I agree about supporting the troops, BUT..

by tronman In reply to Yup again

You are very noble to write letters to soldiers in the field. My mom has done so to. To my discredit, I have not-although I have personally met and thanked people who've come back from Iraq. They deserve it. But..

We are not over there protecting freedom, at least not mine and yours. The people who actually attacked us, remember them..? Are mostly still free and still spending those American dollars they've been getting since at least the Reagan era. Remember the Bin Laden family are very powerful in Arabia and the terror camps they made were, in fact, funded in the 80s by American dollars because they were against our enemy du jour at the time, Iran. This usually causes die-hard conservatives to start frothing uncontrollably when you bring this up. Truth hurts. Anyway, why are the actual masterminds of the terror attacks still at large? Why did Bush PERSONALLY SIGN the order to break the air travel ban, two days after 9/11, for the purpose of spriting out of the USA, Bin Laden's sister and family? Wouldn't it have made sense to at least detain them for questioning? They were the only leverage we had, and Bush personally made sure we lost it ASAP.

This was a mistake. We were lied to, and our patriotism and fear was used against us to shephard us into a war we don't want-and now we are occupying this country that doesn't want us there, and we don't know what to do with it. Face it-this situation is a giant mess. We should be getting out of there within a year, I think its doable. But to really fix things, would require a re-drawing of the borders to essentially fix what the British did to the region after World War I, when Iraq's borders were mostly drawn up, throwing multiple factions who hate each other into the same pot.

And, NO, we are not safer or more secure. One look at the photo of all those messed up prisoners coming from Abu Ghirab and Guantanamo-with missing legs etc.-and you can see the seeds of the propaganda we've given the terrorists to do what they do best-make more terrorists for 10 or 15 years hence. The cycle of war doesn't end till we chose to end it, and we sure didn't chose to do so here. We've made many more enemies than friends, and we'll pay for it within my lifetime, of that I have no doubt.

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It is interesting

by j.lupo In reply to I agree about supporting ...

You readily believe all that the media says about Abu Ghirab and Guantanomo, but you don't hear about the soldier that saved a school, or the soldier that lost his life saving a young man from a landmine. You don't hear about the good we are doing. Does the few things of bad that get out really mean we are so wrong everywhere else? Do you think these things didn't happen in other wars? Do you think WWII we were wrong then too?

Is fighting for freedom and protection of our people only right when it happens on our land?

Look, I am not saying we have a perfect government, people, civilization, etc. We are all human and we make mistakes. However, I support the troops over there. I don't know that I was lied to about the situation. I haven't seen good or bad that convinces me completely either way.

What I do know is what I read from the responses to my letters. What I read from the children in Iraq that respond to letters that are sent by some of the organizations I belong to. We are working to rebuild their infrastructure then they can take over. Did we topple Saddam for the right reasons? I don't know and really I don't care. However, we cannot leave things as they are.

If you are angry over things that have happened, how did you feel after 9/11? Didn't you want to lash out at someone? What makes you think the soldiers didn't feel anger and hurt and frustration. I am not saying that the bad things should have happened, I am not saying they are right. I am saying war is horrible and everyone hurts from it.

I still support our troops who fight to protect us and give us freedom. It is not a magic wand with instant access. Terrorism is a completely different type of war and one we have to learn new ways to combat.

I hope my position is much clearer now.

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Drawing borders...

by onbliss In reply to I agree about supporting ... you think that is really going to be possible? Turkey would not like a separate nation for Kurds. Iran might itself have a mixed reaction. On one part it might want a separate Shiaite neigbhour, but on the other hand it would worry about its Balochs who would want to get with the Baolchs in Pakistan. The Shiaites in Iraq are mostly Arabs, but in Iran they are Persians. That is another factor Iran will be considering.

The moment, borders are redrawn into separate countries, other countries in the region will be forced to step in - for good or bad.

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Onbliss - you make some good points

by j.lupo In reply to Drawing borders...

I am not sure how this fits into what was said, but I agree with you. Everyone wants their own space for their beliefs, but there is only so much space to go around. Thus, the fighting continues.

Redrawing borders is not an answer, however, learning to coexist is. The problem is that there are those that do not wish to coexist. Look at Hamas and Israel. I say Hamas because they have vowed to destroy Israel and all Jews. That is thier belief. There are palastinians that have made suggestions for peace so that they can have a homeland, but Hamas will not hear of it. They want Israel gone and take everything.

I just will never understand such hatred.

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Also, in my opinion

by maxwell edison In reply to Freedom of Speech is not ...

No, you CANNOT oppose the war and still support the military and their families. I believe it's silly to suggest the "war" is wrong, but the people waging that war have your support. That's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Bank robbery is wrong, but that bank robber has my support. I support the police officer, but everything he's doing is wrong.

Sorry, that bird won't fly.

To make such a silly comment is a lame attempt at having it both ways. Decide on which side of the fence you want to sit, and then plant it.

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Not sitting of the fence.

by faradhi In reply to Also, in my opinion

I support my sister in law when she goes into Iraq. I make sure that she knows that I am proud of what she does. I watched her dog and did whatever else she needed because she could not while deployed. My wife made sure that her bills are paid. That is SUPPORT.

I support my neighbor's family who is in Iraq now. I made repairs on his house that he could not do because he was deployed. I have repaired lawn mowers for his wife so she did not have to buy a new one. That is support. I make sure that his wife knows that she only needs to ask for my help and we will do what we can.

I make sure that his sons know that I am proud to know his father and that his father is doing a wonderful and honorable thing.

I do not agree with the war. I do support the military not just with my words but with my actions.

Edited for typos

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