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I’d like to answer pizza7…

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By all means…

In reply to I’d like to answer pizza7…

Let’s continue on….btw….when Republican Governors don’t accept Federal money that is a good think. It is OUR TAX money. You can’t take money from one pocket and put it in another. That’s not growth. Growth comes from the private sector not government.

You may not want to take a welfare check but you expect a lot from government and you want the high regulations. Nanny states fail. Whether or not you believe in this…we are ultimately responsible for ourselves. This country was founded on less government, less taxes, personal responsibility, and liberty. Government is not the solution to our problems.

http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/103-344661

"Government is not the solution to our problems."

In reply to By all means…

No lie, there.

Taken on its own…

gag ~ NT

In reply to I’d like to answer pizza7…

~

Really?

In reply to I’d like to answer pizza7…

[i]Let’s continue on….btw….when Republican Governors don’t accept Federal money that is a good think. It is OUR TAX money. You can’t take money from one pocket and put it in another. That’s not growth. Growth comes from the private sector not government.[/i]

Let’s see.

A) Rick Scott turning down billions for a high speed rail project that would have made 1000s of jobs in Florida for the next decade…meant that all those tax dollars went where?

Did they get given back to tax payers? no.
Did they get used to pay down the debt? no.

Oh wait…they got reallocated to…someone who’d spend them and make jobs so that people pay taxes and…holy smokes…government money make jobs? No way!

B)
Rocketry was funded in this country by the government…not private industry.
Space exploration was funded by government…not private industry.
Your national highway system was funded by the government…not private industry.
Your HDTV standard was…well, it was actually pushed by the government cause the Japanese were over a decade ahead…not by industry.
Oil exploration? Oh yeah, that’s partially funded by…your government giving tax breaks and “grants” to private corps. Just like pharmaceutical corps get too.

Gee…why didn’t private companies pay for things that would grow more jobs and advance and grow our country?

Oh that’s right…their job is to return the maximum dividend…not grow jobs or local or a national economy.

So…you’re wrong…on both accounts there.

[i]You may not want to take a welfare check but you expect a lot from government and you want the high regulations. Nanny states fail. Whether or not you believe in this…we are ultimately responsible for ourselves. This country was founded on less government, less taxes, personal responsibility, and liberty. Government is not the solution to our problems.[/i]

I am responsible for me…and whom I choose to help.

Don’t blame me because you have a scarred, black heart.

As for this country being founded on something, it was not founded on less government at all. Principles of our political system’s style of partisanship evolved that debate.

But, our country was founded on freedom of self-governance. We wanted freedom from taxation with no say, having no input into how we’re ran, etc. It’s not that Thomas Jefferson and James Madison wanted LESS…they wanted a SELF government that worked for US…the people.

Now does spending your tax dollars building a highway in Iowa do anything for you? Not directly.

But when Home Depot runs out of Pella faucets for you to shop, you sure will whine about it…won’t you?

Being a country of 1 worrying about your 1 life and 1 home…is what keeps this country from growing as a whole…not government spending $.035 of your federal tax on a traffic signal in Anchorage, Alaska.

Get over yourself. It’s working together that made America great…not being worried that someone has more apples in their bucket than you do.

That entire mindset reminds me of an old joke

In reply to Really?

It was 1962. Sergei was walking through the forest outside Stalingrad and found an old lamp. He was a little short of cash (who wasn’t, then and there?) and decided he could polish it up and sell it on the black market.

As he polished it, a genie emerged and told him he had three wishes. Sergei thought for a few moments and said “Well, my neighbor has a goat…”

The genie replied, “Oh, so you want a goat, too?”

“No, I want you to kill my neighbor’s goat.”

Hell, the flaming -INTERNET- started as a federal project.

In reply to Really?

Amazon, et al, will be surprised to know the technology that made them possible didn’t create any jobs. Most modern aviation technologies are the result of research done under government contracts for military aircraft.

If the government doesn’t create jobs, why do all those towns scream when the feds close a military base?

Government isn’t the solution to ALL problems, and the list that it is the solution to is quite small. That doesn’t mean there are no economic benefits from it.

Exactly, Palmetto

In reply to Hell, the flaming -INTERNET- started as a federal project.

And, look at all the jobs private enterprise made from a federally-funded project that was opened to the private sector.

People who think that only private sector causes growth have the same belief that Wal-Mart is the single largest employer in the United States. That’s not true.

The largest employer is the United States government.

Wal-Mart: approx. 1,400,000 employees
United States government: 2,823,777 (that’s just civilian)

And, everything the US government does benefits the citizens…not just a select group of people called shareholders. As well, government employees average pay and benefits total averaging about 73% of a private sector compensation level.

So pizza7, your government employs people and saves money doing it. They are more cost effective than private sector.

Still don’t believe me? Compare the cost of an average special forces soldier to that of a corporate hired soldier. You’ll find that you will pay for a civilian contractor with special forces combat experience is almost twice that paid to a member of the United States special forces.

Guess we should hire private corps to do everything then, eh? Real cost savings.

Meanwhile…

In reply to Exactly, Palmetto

the other thread was pulled, did someone flag it as spam, perhaps?

One could hope.

In reply to Meanwhile…

I personally didn’t see anything offensive in it, but it was so frickin’ long it could have had links to the Klan or neo-Nazis for all anyone could tell.

What gets me most about this dude, and I’ve said it before, is his hypocrisy. He screams the government should control gas prices, then rants about Obama being a socialist. Most of the people tossing that word around don’t have a clue what socialism looks like.

True…

In reply to One could hope.

And, most have never seen what their peen looks like past their big gut too. :^0

Think I need to go home. Breakfast hasn’t sat too well. Been in the loo 3 times this morning. 🙁

We have a big, bloated bureacracy of a government and it has to stop

In reply to Exactly, Palmetto

They waste tons of our tax money. Unlike the private sector, they haven’t had to tighten their belts when it comes to hiring, apparently. They all make more money than private sector employees, have a pension and benefits that are downright irrational to offer in these times. Take a look see:

http://www.usajobs.gov/EI/benefits.asp#icc

Browse by occupation on the next link and click on some of the IT jobs and then go to DICE and see what the requirements are for a private sector job of the same type. It really is eye-opening.

http://jobsearch.usajobs.gov/browse.aspx

Government workers get so much more than the rest of us in the private sector. I don’t have a pension/retirement plan. I don’t have anywhere close to the benefits they do and they make a competitive salary to mine. Why are we paying so much for these services? I want the government to offer the same thing in a job that you get on DICE. A competitive opportunity..

Do we really need 3 million+ people to run our government? I don’t think so. Should I be funding someone else’s guaranteed pension when I have a 401k with no such guarantee? I can’t afford to. Our government is too big and needs to tighten its belt, just like the rest of us have had to.

They certainly aren’t saving us money, they’re wasting it. As an example of government waste, take a look at the Minerals Management Service (MMS). This is an example of how efficient our government runs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Ocean_Energy_Management,_Regulation_and_Enforcement

I’m not saying that we should privatize some of these functions, because that costs even more. The reason it costs more is because private companies know they can soak the US government for any services they perform and get away with it. Our government is a big, fat, stupid blob and we’re all paying for that.

AV

Edited: link problem

Hey, pizza7, if you’re still out there,

In reply to We have a big, bloated bureacracy of a government and it has to stop

THAT is how you present a reasoned position. Notice the lack of insults and name calling, and the connections to independent sources.

Jck

In reply to Exactly, Palmetto

“And, everything the US government does benefits the citizens…not just a select group of people called shareholders. As well, government employees average pay and benefits total averaging about 73% of a private sector compensation level”

Sounding a little bit left wing communistic here!
I don’t disagree though…

Well, I’ve never said government was perfect…

In reply to Jck

and, I don’t think it’s a cure-all. However, I do side with Teddy Roosevelt on one thing: Unfettered capitalism is bad for any country.

Just like a total welfare state will crash a country, so will a totally capitalistic society. Both cause class division and derision.

But, government *is* accountable to everyone. Whereas, the corporate is truly legally only bound to a responsibility to shareholders. Some would argue companies are responsible to their customers, but that can be rebutted by just showing the quality of products you get in most stores now. Stores don’t try to sell the best product anymore, but what makes them the most profit.

Nonetheless, I would just like to see an America that works for the people. That way, a working-class person can work their way up the ladder and a business owner can make a decent profit.

As it stands now though, your chances of making it…as a long-term employee or business…are not so good.

It probably wasn’t just roosevelt

In reply to Well, I’ve never said government was perfect…

That said things like that.. It’s fairly common knowledge, I would think.

Government way be accountable to everyone in writing, but between the lines there will always be agenda and corruption in any government.
Companies are accountable to only 2 things; the executives’ wallet size and shareholders.

As far as prospects go, I don’t know about America really, but Australia is doing OK, not fantastic, but better than the USA – check the conversion rates!

Trust me…I know…

In reply to It probably wasn’t just roosevelt

I just took, all things said and done, a $12k a year pay cut, and paid over $6k to move myself half-way across the United States for a job.

Plus, I saw that the Euro is now about $1.40. Last time I was in Ireland, it was about $1.31.

I just hope the rate gets better by next year. I’m planning 2 weeks in Europe for that Dec 2012 end-of-the-world deal. :^0

You could…

In reply to It probably wasn’t just roosevelt

Start up a terrorist community to sabotage the exports for europe – that’d surely decrease the EURO value..

Ermm…no

In reply to It probably wasn’t just roosevelt

I’d prefer not to risk being sent to prison.

I’ll just hope the economy keeps getting better, and the Euro gets to about $1.26 again.

I mean, I’ve got til December 2012…I’ll save up a few dollars by then. :^0

Economics 101

In reply to I’d like to answer pizza7…

Its been…..30 years since I took eco 101. Rookie first year mistake, sign up for a course without considering the consequences of the schedule – 8AM start on Monday morning, 2 hour lectures.

Anyway, one of the basic principles drilled into us was that private sector spending does “trickle” farther than government spending does. But, said the well respected prof, don’t fall into the trap of thinking that government spending does nothing. Those people getting government paychecks buy houses cars and groceries like everyone else. His point was that a dollar spent by a big company tends to go through more hands.

I recall he also liked peanut butter, he used it in many examples, like supply and demand, commodity pricing etc.

I do agree jck that private contracting of security in Iraq and Afghanistan has cost the US tax payer billions, and perhaps many millions more than it would have if US military were used instead.

On the other hand, the City of Toronto is now getting around to privatizing garbage pickup and that will save millions.

Both examples are true and valid. I would argue that you need to look at things on a case by case basis.

Quibble

In reply to Economics 101

One of the unfortunate reasons we have to use contractors is that there just aren’t enough people in the military. Part of the reason for that shortage is we just don’t pay them enough. What I don’t get is why we seem to have plenty of money to pay contractors who employ … veterans.

I actually understand the economics a bit

In reply to Quibble

When you pay a contractor, you can specify a shorter time, you don’t have to worry about the rising cost of benefits, pensions etc. You don’t have to pay to train someone up. So even if the “premium” above what you pay a soldier is high, you may save money in the long run. Though what I’ve seen about some of the contracting bills from Afghanistan, they may be so outrageously high as to defy analysis.

What I do question though, is why we sanction people to be in a war zone, with guns, when they are not 100% responsible to military authority, and directly controlled by the military. I say we, cause Canada has done some limited amount of contracting out in Afghanistan as well. Mostly in non combat roles, but some in protective roles on some of the reconstruction projects.

At least the guy with a gun in Iraq…

In reply to I actually understand the economics a bit

is earning his money. (At least…I hope so…)

I really can’t say that for most executives and government bigwigs.

I heard a saying a while back…something about the only thing all wars have in common…are that old men send the young men to do their fighting for them.

Scares me that we value so little the jobs done by soldiers, police, firefighters, medical professionals…and even road workers. People who upkeep infrastructure and maintain the common good.

Old men and young men

In reply to At least the guy with a gun in Iraq…

Nowadays, too few of the sending old men served in the ranks of the fighting young ones.

You just want Ike back…

In reply to Old men and young men

Don’t worry. Some days we all do 😉

Actually…

In reply to You just want Ike back…

I wanted John McCain more than Obama…but, they attached Sarah Palin to his ticket. And as much as I don’t like lifer politicians, Joe Biden was the lesser of two evils.

Why couldn’t they just have teamed McCain with Huckabee or Giuliani?

I just don’t understand the political parties anymore. 🙁

They have to appeal to the crazies…

In reply to You just want Ike back…

It’s funny ’cause it’s true – except that it’s very very sad…

Yep…

In reply to You just want Ike back…

Just wish they’d stop doing all the pandering to special interests and start making laws that apply to everyone.

But, that would make too much sense.

McCain and Palin

In reply to You just want Ike back…

They also wanted to appeal to all those women who would have voted for Hillary just because she was a woman.

Well…

In reply to Economics 101

Savings by political types is often defined by what government doesn’t spend…not out-of-pocket savings to the people.

Like with garbage collection where I lived in FL. Right before I first bought the house, it was run by the county. Then, a large national waste company took it over and the rate almost immediately increased and service went to pot (and stayed that way for years). My neighbors said that within the first year, their rate went up about 50%.

In the end, less tax dollars were spent but everyone ended up shelling more out of pocket for the same service that government provided at a lower cost to the taxpayer.

I’m sure there are some cases that companies can do it cheaper, but I’ve seen way too many times that companies put a premium on profiting and don’t care to keep the service to the same standard.

I’ve said it before: where business is responsible only to the shareholder to return as much profit as they can, government is responsible to everyone from the homeless guy to the wealthiest man within their jurisdiction.

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