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Iraq Aftermath

By TheChas ·
After seeing a blurb on CNN Headline News about Walter Cronkite's opinions about the war in Iraq, I just could not help myself.

Check out this article:

I quote from the article:

"worst policy decision this nation has ever made."

Walter Cronkite is perhaps the most trusted newsman to ever anchor the US evening news.
If he is so concerned about the Bush administrations Iraq policies, I believe it is time for anyone who still supports the actions taken to re-evaluate their position.

In foreign policy issues, we cannot afford to use the ends justify the means rebuttal that the Bush administration is attempting to use in the face of mounting world criticism.

Yes, Saddam is a ruthless person who terrorized his people to stay in power.
Under that justification, what country will we decide to invade next?

Bush is already focusing on deposing Fidel Castro's government in Cuba.

It is time for the US people to demand no new US aggression against foreign leaders without clear evidence of a imminent threat to the US or our allies.


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Thank you Julian

by maxwell edison In reply to Not MY opinions ...

You're right, I did overlook that vital piece of information.

However, may I assume that you agree with it since you took the time to post it? Or do you disagree with it? And whichever it is, why?

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I agree with the theme, but ...

by jardinier In reply to Thank you Julian

not necessarily the content. Peter Lewis is saying that there WILL be protests when Bush visits Australia, but that if these protests are not conducted in an appropriate manner, they may lead to alienation between and Australia and its long-standing ally, the USA. I think the following excerpt from the article sums up its intention:

"That said, we would be foolish if we turned our protests into a round of Yank bashing, because in doing so we would be attacking many of the principles of freedom, democracy and individual liberty that we also take for granted."

I rest my case.

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Protests - Part of exercising free speech

by maxwell edison In reply to I agree with the theme, b ...

I think every American President since Washington has been the subject of protests of some sort. Regardless of what one does, it's bound to get someone bent out of shape.

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Extra precautions ...

by jardinier In reply to I agree with the theme, b ...

I observed on TV last night that physical barriers are being erected around Australia's Parliament House, at a further distance than is usual, to keep protestors at bay when President Bush visits Australia next week.

One of the main issues for discussion between John Howard and George Bush will be the possibility of a free trade agreement beteen the two countries.

However, what the public will learn about the results of these talks will no doubt be determined by what Howard and Bush are prepared to reveal. My principal objection to the agreement made between Howard and Bush some time ago is that NOTHING (apart from the general topic of free trade) about the agenda of these talks has been revealed to the public.

John Howard has committed Australia to an agreement with America, but has kept the public completely in the dark as to which issues may be involved.

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Are your treaties and agreements

by road-dog In reply to Extra precautions ...

up for debate in your Parliament? All treaties entered into by the US must be ratified by Congress. (as the Kyoto treaty was not, but Bush gets the blame)

Won't the details of the agreement come out in debate?

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If introduced as legislation ...

by jardinier In reply to Are your treaties and agr ...

the treaty will be first discussed in the House
of Representatives, which is controlled by the Government.

It will then be presented to the Senate, which is not controlled by the Government. While the Government holds a greater number of seats in the Senate than the Labor Party, there are currently about 14 Senators who belong to minor parties, or who are Independents. The numbers are: Govt (34), ALP (27), minor parties and Independents (14). So according to my calculations, if 11 of these Senators who do not represent either of the two major parties vote with the Labor Oppostion, then the legislation will not pass.

However before being presented as Legislation, if copies of the Treaty are issued to all members of parliament, then questions may be addressed to the Prime Minister in a one-hour session known as Question Time.

So the general answer to your question is that details of any treaty may only be known to the public at the stage where the Senate either passes or challenges any legislation in relation to those treaties.

My complaint was, and still is, that John Howard has not at this stage informed the public of any of the details of the treaty, which will probably be finalised when President Bush holds talks with the Prime Minister in the near future. I think that the people should have been informed of the issues which are to be discussed.

Normally when the Prime Minister sets off to have talks with leaders of other countries, the public is given information regarding the principal issues to be discussed.

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The Prime Minister and the President ....

by jardinier In reply to Are your treaties and agr ...

It is impossible to make a simple comparison with the Australian system of government and the American system, because your president is chosen in a separate election.

So that, in terms of blame, the Prime Minister will be equated with the government: Blame the government, and you will be blaming the Prime Minister; blame the Prime Minister and you will be blaming the government.

As an aside, I think these TR discussions have been very helpful in letting at least two Australians learn more about how the American system of Government works, and letting a number of Americans learn more about how the Australian system works. Our two countries have been allies for a long time, and will no doubt continue to be for a long time into the future.

Did you know, by the way, that it was only via a radio telescope at Parkes, New South Wales, that you were all able to see Neil Armstrong make that first step on the moon?

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Pot calling the Kettle black

by Oz_Media In reply to Give me a break

Max, once again you refuse to believe any comments made by anyone other than those who you believe in. Yet you also try defame these statements with statementss made by other sources. Who is right? Let me guess, the ones YOU chose that favored YOUR opinion right?

"But, of course, you are certainly entitled to your opinions, as one-sided as they may be."

I don't see how someone with your intelligence could make such a hypocritical statement. Perhapse YOU have the one-sided opinions and only rely on sources , again that favour YOUR opinions. If not, they don't hold water because someone else said otherwise.

"And you believe the likes of Michael Moore? Do you really know who - and what - Michael Moore really is?"

>>Disliked by Republicans?

"You praise Wesley Clark as a former NATO commander, but you forgot to mention that he's a former FIRED NATO commander because he almost started a war with the Russians and was a general (no pun intended) pain-in-the-*** to every other military commander"

>>Ok, so you don't like Wesley Clark either, you're allowed to do that, you're also allowed to believe his views.

"...retired Gen. Hugh Shelton, said about Wesley Clark. "I've known Wes for a long time," Shelton said. "I will tell you the reason he came out of Europe early had to do with integrity and character issues, things that are very near and dear to my heart. ... I'll just say Wes won't get my vote."

>>He doesn't get YOUR vote either, so what. How does that detract from the validity of his statements?

"And how about General Norman Schwarzkopf who was - and still is - in favor of President Bush's Iraq policy?"

>>So are YOU, it's YOUR opinion, so what?

"Do the research for yourself to find the "Generals" who support Wesley Clark versus the ones who don't. You'll find scores of those against him, and very few - if any - supporting him."

>>Do your research for yourself to find out the American and other world citizens who support George Bush jr. vs the ones who don't. You'll find scores of those against him, and very few - if any - supporting him."

I'm starting to see a pattern here, you have the ability to defame everybody who has a different viewpoint than you or those who your believe in, simply by stating that others who you DO believe in don't support the statements either.

Very narrow minded and closed eyed way to look at the world each day. There are only what, a few hundred peolpe in the world who actually have a valid opinion?

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Reads like you got the closed mind OZ

by JimHM In reply to Pot calling the Kettle bl ...

I don't know bro - it seems you have the closed mind - Max had some valid and support points, but you flame him for his view because it is dyametriclly opposed to yours. Rather than reading his for the content that was provide - with back up quotes (which I hardly see from your side) - you flame him...

It appears - you are the closed minded one...

Bring on the Fire ... Bro ... My opinion and opinions are like *******s we all have one and they all smell the same..

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We've read or understood different posts

by Oz_Media In reply to Reads like you got the cl ...

Max had ridiculed EVERY person that was referred to and simply stated that others don't agree with the said pesons opinions. Very well backed.

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