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Iraq Aftermath

By TheChas ·
After seeing a blurb on CNN Headline News about Walter Cronkite's opinions about the war in Iraq, I just could not help myself.

Check out this article:

I quote from the article:

"worst policy decision this nation has ever made."

Walter Cronkite is perhaps the most trusted newsman to ever anchor the US evening news.
If he is so concerned about the Bush administrations Iraq policies, I believe it is time for anyone who still supports the actions taken to re-evaluate their position.

In foreign policy issues, we cannot afford to use the ends justify the means rebuttal that the Bush administration is attempting to use in the face of mounting world criticism.

Yes, Saddam is a ruthless person who terrorized his people to stay in power.
Under that justification, what country will we decide to invade next?

Bush is already focusing on deposing Fidel Castro's government in Cuba.

It is time for the US people to demand no new US aggression against foreign leaders without clear evidence of a imminent threat to the US or our allies.


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Isn't that what started the war?

by Oz_Media In reply to What are you a sheep - or ...

And obviously brainwashed many pro-Bush Americans.

"Listen to what news people say - but why blindly accept it without your own research and brain.."

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Two things are begging to be asked

by maxwell edison In reply to Isn't that what started t ...

Keeping your comments in the context of things you've said before, a couple of questions come to mind.

First of all, why are you suggesting that any "pro-Bush" Americans have been brainwashed?

Moreover, were "pro-Clinton" Americans brainwashed as well? Were "pro-Gore" Americans brainwashed?

Why aren't the "anti-Bush" people the ones who are brainwashed?

Are "Americans who think differently than you" all brainwashed?

****, maybe everyone (except you, of course) is brainwashed.

What's the difference between being "brainwashed" and placing one's trust in another?

And you have made it clear, on more than one occasion, that you don't research a lot of these issues, you're not a political person, you're not a news savvy person, and so on, but you do have opinions on everything, so what qualifies you to know who may or may not be brainwashed and/or who may or may not be accurate in their assessments?

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by Oz_Media In reply to Two things are begging to ...

"so what qualifies you to know who may or may not be brainwashed and/or who may or may not be accurate in their assessments?"

I don't believe everything I read or hear, regardless of the source. I often see politicians, generals etc on TV making different statements, AND WITHOUT POLITICAL PREDJUDICE, make up an opinion of MY OWN based on what is being said against what I see and hear from other sources.

Your own political predjudices are what makes you susceptible to 'brainwashing'. You refuse to listen to viewpoint from any party other than that which you support fully. Therefore you're opinions are clouded and why I consider this a form of 'brainwashing'.

I haven't made any political references in my statements, other than I FEEL that the war was and is unjust (LONG BEFORE IT STARTED)based on my views from ALL sides. This gives me tha ability to form an opinion based on what I believe and what I don't. Not just that Mr. X said so, so I'm going that way because we have the same political views. As said before, Petriotism may end up to be the death of America, or certainly it's worst enemy.

"Why aren't the "anti-Bush" people the ones who are brainwashed?"

I'll use YOUR methodology to answer that one.
I belive in Chas and his open minded way of forming a personal opinion, there are many times when I don't like what you've said and therefore I distrust and disagree with anything you say, so should everyone else because we dont have similar political views.

Sounds pretty dumb doesn't it? But we're all expected to believe it when you do it?

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This fits you, Oz

by maxwell edison In reply to Brainwashed?

Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do.

-Dale Carnegie

Fits you to a tee, Oz.

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by Oz_Media In reply to This fits you, Oz

How you constantly quote Dale Carnegie, but don't live by his focus of How to Win Friends and Influence people. I taught the Dale Carnegie course in Vancouver for about 7 months, I was also a trainer for the Dale Carnegies Sales and Administration courses (I and II).

In light of your last argument or excuse for an argument, all I can say is:
" Sure, give someone the right to voice an opinion or observation - I'm all for it. But give others who disagree the same courtesy. It's not defaming. It's disagreeing." - Maxwell Edison 2003

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Oz - you lost my respect on that last comment

by JimHM In reply to Isn't that what started t ...

Oz - oldman with that last comment you just lost my respect ... All because someone doesn't believe your opinions doesn't make them "Brainwashed" - You have a very closed mind - and are unwilling to accept what others see as the truth..

That makes you Brainwashed - Others are willing and openly debate your views - we accept that is what you believe - we may not and most time don't agree with your opinions - but to toss a blanket over everyone that believes Bush is brainwashed, is just a stoned stupid statement ...


You lost my respect with that last comment

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You lost my respect with that last comment

by Oz_Media In reply to Oz - you lost my respect ...

You need to keep up!

I've never respected you poiyical views! I don't care what you're told, or what you tell me, I've always disagreed with your comments in a political forum.

BRAINWASHED may have been taken out of context a bit though. What I meant is that it seems once people make a political decision, be it Repub. Demo. Liberal or whatever, you will stand by ANY and ALL comments made by ANYONE even slightly related to that party and deem all other information useless based on it's political stance. THIS is ignorance at it's best or what I call "BRAINWASHED"

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News media NOT reporting the real progress in Iraq

by maxwell edison In reply to Iraq Aftermath

Iraq's national electricity network - crippled by war, looting and sabotage - has surpassed the production levels of the prewar period for the first time in six months, U.S. civil administrator L. Paul Bremer reported Thursday. "On Monday, Oct. 6, power generation hit 4,518 megawatts, exceeding the prewar average," Bremer said at a news conference at which he trumpeted accomplishments of the U.S.-led occupation. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers reported the prewar peak to be 4,500 megawatts.

Bremer reported the improved electricity situation at a news conference at which he cataloged accomplishments under the U.S. occupation, which is generally dated to April 9, when U.S. troops took command of central Baghdad.

"Most of what has happened since then, not all of it, has been good," he said. His list included:

* More than 13,000 reconstruction projects completed.

* More than 40,000 police on duty nationwide, including 7,000 in Baghdad, compared with virtually none at the war's end.

* A first battalion of a retrained Iraqi army graduated from basic training and on active duty.

* Twenty-two universities and 43 institutes and colleges open, along with almost all primary and secondary schools.

* An increase in deliveries of pharmaceuticals from 800 tons in May to 12,000 tons.

* Clearing of 8,000 miles of irrigation canals.

* Establishment of 170 newspapers.

"In six short months, we have accomplished a lot, but we're also aware the progress we have made is only a beginning," Bremer said.

He acknowledged that "much remains to be done to establish an acceptable security environment."

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Of course

by Oz_Media In reply to News media NOT reporting ...

It is EXPECTED that America rebuilds a country after attacking it, unless in a full territorial war, then it's yours to do with as you please.

Too little too late again, sorry doesn't hold water.

When BUSH declared war, his reasons and objectives were to kill Saddam and eliminate his regime, same as Bin Laden but you had just cause for that attack, AND DESTROY ALL THE HOARDS OF WMD that he had stockpiled for a planned attack on the US and it's citizens.

US citizens were scared for thier lives and felt threatened, as usual, wich allowed Bush to attack Baghdad with full support that he was once again saving America from the bad people who look different than other Americans and don't believe in his views.

Upon infiltrating Baghdad, nothing was found that he was assured was there (including Saddam). The British troops discovered the mass graves and it was plastered all over television to lok as if American troops had discovered these graves and that America was justified in taking war action.

All the pro-Bush groups were then sidestepping the WMD issue and focusing on teh whole mass graves issue, which was unknown before the war and then used as justification?!?

When that all came to light, the focus turned back to WMD, they found SOME materials but not anything substaintial. Now everyone said it was just tme until the WMD were uncovered, thus justifying the war. Nothing did turn up though.

Now, he's claiming to be rebuilding the country single handedly and trying to obtain credit for that as he has so far uncovered NO REASON for the attack on Baghdad, nor has he captured a single target with all the American military's HIGH INTELLIGENCE, and unstoppable war machine, BILLIONS of dollars worth of "The best trained and most effective military in the world".

Guess everyone else is doomed if you've got the world's best and can't capture a single man.

Bin Laden, Saddam = 2 wars, billions spent to capture these men and destroy their regimes that in turn destroyed the American economy, lives of many countries soldiers lost, and many thousands of soldiers still in a foreign country and so far Bin Laden AND Saddam still alive.

I'd say 0 for 2 (just counting recent war) with America still supporting the war efforts religiously while wondering why others aren't jumping on thier side. This is from te 'Leader of the free world' and the world's 'Super Power'/'Greatest military in the world' Pretty bold statements for a bad F&^%-up.

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Good news doesn't sell

by TheChas In reply to News media NOT reporting ...

Whether or not the media has a bias on an issue only affects the slant of the story.

The reality of news is that bad news sells better than good news.

Controversy and sensationalism sell best of all.

ALL of the news organizations in the US exist for 1 reason, PROFITS.
The better the ratings, the higher the profits.

A story on how well things are going ANYWHERE causes the viewer / listener to change channels.

So the news reporting is simply the result of the 'free exercise of commerce'.

While I do not listen to the right wing's shill (Rush Limbaugh) I understand that most of his time is spent regaling in how bad the liberals are messing things up.

Is that really any different?


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