General discussion


Is Islam imploding just as the USSR did?

By jardinier ·
I lifted this link from the "Holocaust Denial" thread.

Irshad Manji:The Trouble with Islam: A Wake-Up Call for Honesty and Change (Random House) or her website

We know that there is a general move back to fundamentalism in parts of the Muslim world, paralled by a strong move back to fundamentalism in parts of the Christian world -- especially the USA.

An excerpt from a review in says the author is "striving to explore a culture and civilization whose inward collapse has given rise to a militant creed at war with the modern world."

So, is it possible that Islam will self-destruct before it does major damage to the rest of the world?

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Got that right..

by faradhi In reply to Life is sweet

Strategically placed so that I have beach side property.

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by neilb@uk In reply to Catastrophic?

Hyperbole, perhaps. But only a little bit and I was talking about a catastrophic economic effect rather than wasting a half dozen cities which, I guess, would be described by Holocaust or similar. Not sure where you derived that comparison from.

It's unfortunate that recessions and economic crises - 1973 and 1979 were no exceptions - more adversely impact the unemployed, the marginal groups in society, the unskilled, the elderly, foreign workers, etc. Those of us who keep our jobs through them tend to notice a lot less.

Hey. I haven't mentioned Global Warming!

But if you want a debate... ]:)

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action by our government or ... much concerted, organised effort

by maxwell edison In reply to Over a barrel?

You said that you, "don't remember a particularly successful action by your government or ..... much concerted, organised effort from citizens to deal with the crisis.

Well, it was that 1973 oil crisis that .....

..... pushed the Alaskan pipeline through Congress. (ANWR should be next.)

..... was the impetus for increased fuel efficiency in our automobiles. (My '72 El Camino only got ~10 mpg. My 95 Cadillac gets ~28.)

..... resulted in a national 55 mph speed limit.

..... made possible the creation of a new Department of Energy, and made it a cabinet-level department.

..... made us decide to create our Strategic Petroleum Reserve.

..... was the start of the conservation movement in America.

And that's just off the top of my head. Can anyone add to my list?

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Concerted action

by neilb@uk In reply to action by our government ...

Not in any particular order. So, what did the citizens do that they weren't coerced into?

Conservation movement? Hmmmm. Where is it now? You could do with it.

Increased fuel efficiency. So, it takes a global oil crisis to demonstrate how little the automobile industry cares about the consumer and, I guess, how close and cuddly they were with the oil companies - and still are!

Alaska oil pipeline. There a crisis! Let's economise! We can effect a major shift in the energy-usage habits of the American public that will last forever. No. sod it! Let's burn just as much but get it from somewhere else.

Strategic Petroleum Reserve. I'm a bit dubious about that one, also. Hardly an incentive to use less oil, now. Still, if it makes you feel good to spend over $20million pa on it - that's $600million since it started (not including the oil to put in it!) then feel good.

55mph. Check it out properly, Max. It had an impact on prices by markedly increasing truck delivery times and saved a couple of percent of fuel usage which would have been equalled by adding 2psi to the tyre pressure! Would have been better to have raised the price, got more tax and people would have really cut down that way. Oh, and the Government had to blackmail the individual states into imposing it.

Department of Energy. Don't know. They have...??

That's just off the top of my head, too.

Your turn.

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Neil - you didn't initially ask to debate the merits. . . .

by maxwell edison In reply to Concerted action

....of those "efforts". You just wanted me to list some of them. And I did.

Personally speaking, I don't really want to debate 1973 issues all over again. (But I would like to have that '72 El Camino!)

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Point taken

by neilb@uk In reply to Neil - you didn't initial ...

I'm done posting for today, anyway.

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Max, Max, Max

by JamesRL In reply to Neil - you didn't initial ...

I am so dissapointed....

My brother had the last true "pretty" El Camino - the 1969. His was a creamy yellow with black vinyl roof and interior. 350 with 4 barrel carb. Later the car got bulky and it ruined the lines. The 72 had those 2 big headlights...ugh.

I loved that car.


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James, James, James

by maxwell edison In reply to Neil - you didn't initial ...

I always thought the last good looking El Camino was the 72. In 1973 the design drastically changed to ugly.

However, I think I, too, like the design of the '69 better than the '72. But I'd love to have another one, any model between 1966 and 1972.




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A BBC report last year stated.....

by maxwell edison In reply to Over a barrel?

You said, "A BBC report last year stated that British government documents from the 1970s reveal that the United States considered invading Saudi Arabia and Kuwait during the crisis and seizing the oil fields in those countries."

Without knowing the intent and context of that BBC report, and I don't doubt it one bit, by the way, I might suggest that the United States military planners have contingency plans for dozens, or possibly hundreds of different scenarios regarding the free flow of oil to the free world. I believe that I would be safe to suggest that we have a plan right now to invade Saudi Arabia, under certain circumstances. So what? Hope for the best; negotiate for the best; but plan for the worst. Isn't that what justifies all those federal salaries?

You asked, " Is that what you'd do this time?" Under some circumstances, absolutely yes. And under those circumstances, you guys would be right there with us.

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The report

by neilb@uk In reply to A BBC report last year st ...

The report was also on the main BBC television news but only the earlier 6pm edition and was removed from the 9pm edition.

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