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Is Islam imploding just as the USSR did?

By jardinier ·
I lifted this link from the "Holocaust Denial" thread.

Irshad Manji:The Trouble with Islam: A Wake-Up Call for Honesty and Change (Random House) or her website

We know that there is a general move back to fundamentalism in parts of the Muslim world, paralled by a strong move back to fundamentalism in parts of the Christian world -- especially the USA.

An excerpt from a review in says the author is "striving to explore a culture and civilization whose inward collapse has given rise to a militant creed at war with the modern world."

So, is it possible that Islam will self-destruct before it does major damage to the rest of the world?

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English History 101

by neilb@uk In reply to Closer than you might thi ...
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Going to watch the Virgin Queen ?

by Tony Hopkinson In reply to English History 101

It's meant to be well done, and Good Queen Bess was a truly great monarch, definitley the greatest british one and probably one of the best ever.

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I reckon so

by neilb@uk In reply to Going to watch the Virgin ...

They had a promo on the BBC this morning and it looked like they might have made a good job of it.

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by maxwell edison In reply to Is Islam imploding just a ...

This is a slight diversion from your original topic, Julian, but it's certainly related. I wanted to post the link, but I didn't want to do it a new discussion that might distract from this one.

"This message is about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and how to end those wars," presumably says Osama bin Laden.

NO, is my reply. NO TRUCE, I say. UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER or TOTAL DESTRUCTION - No more, no less.

If Islam is "imploding", at least the radical wing of Islam, we should not do anything to stop it.

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Interesting article, but ....

by jardinier In reply to UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER - ...

the authenticity of the tape is questionable, and why would anyone in their right mind believe and trust Osama bin Laden?

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Bin Laden implies

by JamesRL In reply to UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER - ...

And many in the US seem to think, that Al Qaeda is some tightly structured organization, like an army, that works under strict control.

This isn't exactly true. Its more like a loose coalition of people who believe in the same principles.

Which means even if Bin Laden was sincere, he can't control all the fighters in Iraq and Afghanistan, even the ones who claim to be Al Qaeda. Therefore he doesn't have the means or even the influence to guarantee a truce.

There are considerable tensions between the factions fighting the US in Iraq - the Baathists (Sadaams government was Baathist) do not like or trust Al Qaeda, and co-operation appears to be weak. There have been instances of one faction turning on the other. Some Baathist factions have partiticapted in negotiations with the US. There are more Baathists than Al Qaeda affiliates involved in the battle.

So why would anyone sane even think about it....


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by john.a.wills In reply to Is Islam imploding just a ...

By what right do we use the same word to describe a particular movement in Christendom and another in Islam? I have seen the term applied to Rabbinical Jewish and Hindu groups also. The Christian movement of that name has a very definite origin and set of dogmas, which are not shared by the Muslim movement. What is the similarity?

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Fundamentalism is a viewpoint or stance ...

by jardinier In reply to Fundamentalism

The word can be applied to any religion:

fundamentalism (Oxford Dictionary):
1 strict maintenance of traditional Protestant beliefs such as the inerrancy of Scripture and literal acceptance of the creeds as fundamentals of Christianity.
2 strict maintenance of ancient or fundamental doctrines of any religion, esp. Islam.

I cannot define a fundamentalist Jew because I do not know what teachings they regard as authoritative and beyond question. Presumably a fundamentalist Jew would be an Orthodox Jew, but I do not know how much authority they ascribe to the Talmud as against the Torah.

Fundamentalist Christians and Muslims would be those who insist that the Scripture (Bible or Quran) is infallible, was revealed by God (or Allah) and contains no errors and inconsistencies, and that the laws laid out therein are to be carried out literally.

In the case of Islam, this would include cutting off the right hand of a thief ? a practice that is known to still be carried out in some Muslim countries.

Fundamentalist Christians are a peculiar lot as they insist that the Bible is infallible with no errors or inconsistencies, and yet they do not regard as obligatory in today?s world most of the law laid down in the Old Testament.

A genuine fundamentalist Christian would also assert that God personally oversaw the translation of the King James version of the Bible in 1611.

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by john.a.wills In reply to Fundamentalism is a viewp ...

As far as I can see the only similarities between Xn Fundamentalism and Muslim Fundamentalism is that both oppose the teaching of evolution, both believe gays should be punished and both believe the modern Israelis are descended from the Biblical Israelites. That is not a great deal on which to base a common nomenclature, and perhaps we should acknowledge that the phenomena are distinct and deserve distinct names. Xn Fundamentalists usually ignore Mt 19:9, happily remarrying after divorce, and Muslim Fundamentalists ignore the parts of the Quran where monasticism is praised, so neither really takes all its scripture literally.

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by M_a_r_k In reply to Is Islam imploding just a ...

The religion of Islam won't implode just as Christianity won't implode. The religion has been around for 1500 years. While there has always been some fundamentalists within Islam, just like there has been within Christianity, the current fundamentalist fervor is probably no more than a fad and will eventually fade back to a more historical norm. At least I HOPE so.

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