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Is Jessica Lynch - A Hero - Coward - or Just Stupid

By JimHM ·
Has anyone read any of her Autobio - by the NYT's reporter. Just finished the first few chapters - and now she is saying she wasn't scared - the doctors took excellent care of her - she wasn't raped ..

Is this women just a typical West Virg Hillbilly - Dumb as a Bag of Rocks - A true Hero, saying what actually happened - a Coward - A Fool -

Anyone else read her BS - line - which is the turth - her live interviews or her story in the book ...

Just another Dumb as a Bag of Rocks - West Virg -

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You sure did

by Cactus Pete In reply to By the way. . .

And I apologize for drawing the conclusion I did.

Still, I'm not seeing what you arguement for women not being in combat is. Obviously, yes, they're different. But are you saying that they are different at some fundamental level which keeps them from being effective soldiers in combat, or are you saying that the enemy would treat them differently, or something else all together?

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As a rule (but there are exceptions)

by maxwell edison In reply to You sure did

Men are stronger. Men are better fighters. Men are more fearless - or can face their fears better. (That might get some arguments, but how many men versus women are afraid of mice?) Men can run faster, jump higher, and carry more weight on their backs. There are, of course, exceptions, but this is, for the most part, the rule.

If you had to fight, and I mean really fight, your way out of "deep doo-doo", would you rather have a man or a woman at your side?

When it comes right down to the real nitty-gritty, a soldier doesn't fight for his country or fight for a cause, but he fights to either stay alive or he fights for the guy next to him - for his Army buddy. The last two soldiers to be awarded the Medal of Honor (I think) were the two Army Rangers who went back in to rescue the pilot of "Black Hawk Down". They were both killed, but the pilot was rescued. I don't think the "Jessica Lynchs" of the world would have the strength - or the onions - to do something like that.

What if a Sgt. First Class Randy Shughart or a Master Sgt. Gary Gordon (Black Hawk Down) was in that truck instead of Jessica Lynch? Who would you rather have in that truck with you?

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Who would I want?

by Cactus Pete In reply to As a rule (but there are ...

A seasoned vet over a 1 month newbie any day.

Yes, generally speaking, men can 'do more' physically than women - and they don't get monthly anxieties like women may...

I agree, that women, in general, aren't as good in combat conditions as men. I just wanted you to actually say what it was you meant so I knew if I really agreed or not (with you - this time).

That said, I believe we should make room for the exceptions. I want the best admin on my systems in each area... I expect there is a similar issue in combat.

Then again, I don't expect that the numbers [odds] put Ms. Lynch in actual combat - so they probably didn't really goof there. I don't recall seeing pictures and video of women in the heat of everything, come to think of it.

The situation that put Ms. Lynch where she was was one of those conditions of war - people die. People get hurt. Things don't go as planned.

Ms. Lynch, I suspect, didn't have much time to even try to fire her weapon, given the details of the situation I've read. There is no proof that she did anything wrong, and the gun jamming is plausible [even if you don't think it's excuseable].

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So....

by GuruOfDos In reply to Who is Jessica Lynch and ...

No-one of any importance then! Just another 'dumb' squaddie in the wrong place at the wrong time who happened to grab some media attention.

Having worked (and am still working) on various US Army training 'projects' in Germany, Kosovo, Bosnia and Iraq (from whence I have just returned...hence long time - no Guru debate participation!) I can unfortunately only arrive at one conclusion:

The majority of US service men (and women) in the US Army are there for one of two reasons.

a) Because no-one else will employ them.

b) Because it was the only way they could stay out of jail.

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yes and no

by jkaras In reply to So....

Most join out of tradition. All the men in my family served except me. Some do it for schooling. Some do it for the experience to see the world. But yes there is a prolific amount of people that have no skills or high education that join to make something of themselves. I'm not harping on you, just pointing out since you used the term "majority" there is a significant amount of tradition that weighs on many young males that grew up as "army brats". They see this as a coming of age to gain respect from their parents.

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I Know the Navy and Air Force will not take

by JimHM In reply to So....

I don't know about the Army but I know the Navy, Marines and Air Force do not accept those that get a choice from the courts to A - go to jail or B - join the Service.

Now the Army may be different ...

I think a majority may not be the brights bulbs on the planet but you have to give these young men and women a lot of credit for trying to make something of thier life and themselfs - and not going on welfare or assitance.

Give them the credit that is due - they are trying and accomplishing something that others thier age just ignore and take from the government.

Kudoo's - to them for trying, and it could be the Army training that really sucks - not the person taking the training.

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Why I joined the Marines

by road-dog In reply to So....

1) No way to pay for college
2) no direction in life, other than that I didn't want to install carpet for the rest of my life like my dad.
3) The inherent coolness of working on multi-million dollar weapons systems.
4) First rate training and a possible career direction using marketable skills.
5) My older brother was a Marine.
6) The fundamental belief that every young man should serve.

7) because the chicks dig it!

I could have found another job. I was not trying to stay out of jail. I think that you're way off base here.

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Sound like you could've also

by Oz_Media In reply to Why I joined the Marines

Tried out for the Joe Schmo show. I don't mean that as a shot at your ability and am definitely not comparing TV to the Marines. He was just a guy with nothing better to do, so he said why not. He's now a TV personality that won $1000,000 and is travelling the world.

As for the chicks, I went with the band manager role. They sure do dig being backstage, I don't know why, it really isn't the big todo that it was in the 70's.

Cheers,
OM

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Why I joined the Army

by wordworker In reply to Why I joined the Marines

To say that the majority of servicepeople joined to avoid jail or because no one else would hire them is pure b.s. I joined, for example, because I thought the big cash bonus would help me pay off some debts (as a stupid divorced 23 y.o. I was in a hole), help me make some contacts (the Honorable Discharge on the res' makes a positive statement), and because I wanted to be like my dad, my grandfather, Elvis, and George Washington - I wanted to serve my country, see some of theworld, and learn a few things. I *enjoyed* firing weapons and playing the cool toys, but I also enjoyed being a part of one of the biggest and best training and operations outfits in the world. It was admittedly in some ways a big testosterone macho trip.

Mission accomplished on all objectives.

So, don't EVEN try to smear all servicepeople with such ludicrous statements as "avoiding jail" and "no place else to go." It ain't so. Many of us were/are there because we are PATRIOTS.

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B.S.!

by wordworker In reply to So....

Guru, are you IN the service, or just a hired civilian hack?

I find your blanket explanation of why people join to be, in a word, insulting. See my post below for why *I* joined.

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