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Is Jessica Lynch - A Hero - Coward - or Just Stupid

By JimHM ·
Has anyone read any of her Autobio - by the NYT's reporter. Just finished the first few chapters - and now she is saying she wasn't scared - the doctors took excellent care of her - she wasn't raped ..

Is this women just a typical West Virg Hillbilly - Dumb as a Bag of Rocks - A true Hero, saying what actually happened - a Coward - A Fool -

Anyone else read her BS - line - which is the turth - her live interviews or her story in the book ...

Just another Dumb as a Bag of Rocks - West Virg -

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Neither

by GuruOfDos In reply to B.S.!

I am a specialist subcontractor hired by the US Army for three reasons:

1) They cannot get the skills they need 'in-house' and so subcontract a lot of specialist work to 'professional' companies such as mine. As for being a 'hack', spending 17 years in my job and going to college every two or three years or so to keep my skills up to date and to add to my expertise and skills base hardly justifies that term.

2) As a condition of having bases in EU countries, the US Army are required by European law to employ a certain percentage of local labour where the required personnel are not available within the Army. Unfortunately certain skills aren't even available in Germany let alone Kosovo, so there is a clause within Europe that any other EU country can provide specialist employees and they qualify as 'local' within Europe.

3) Fact: The British Army are the best trained and most professional military in the world. They may not be the biggest or the best equipped, but ask any Coalition serviceman or woman who has served in combat alongside the British and they will back up this fact. The US Army have finally cottened onto this fact and are using British trainers and defence training specialists to help develop their training.

I'm not having a dig at US Army personnel....obviously I have only met 2000-3000 or so. BUT....of those 2000-3000, the majority of 'grunts' are in the Army for the reasons I stated. And that's not just my observations, that's from public domain information from the Army and by personal admission from the squaddies themselves!

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Running joke in BC

by Oz_Media In reply to So....

There's a running joke (for a few years now) in Canada about how the USA doesn't need a welfare system, they have the military.

Which everyone and their dog feels is a right of passage to be a true American.

I have seen it posted where Americans feel the military is a right of passage to becoming a man. Yeah, that's it.

"Son,learn to kill your neighbour and shoot anyone on your property. NOW you're a man." Not.

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For the record

by wordworker In reply to Running joke in BC

OM, you don't have to join the Armed Services to learn how to shoot trespassers and thieves. We midwest country boys learned how to do that at a young age.

Seriously, though, the military IS a rite of passage: it teaches discipline, chain of command, responsibility - things that come in handy in the so-called real world.

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It used to be

by Oz_Media In reply to For the record

I do see your point and understand where you're coming from, it's actually quite saddening.

"Seriously, though, the military IS a rite of passage: it teaches discipline, chain of command, responsibility - things that come in handy in the so-called real world."

When living in England I was with the ATC (Air training core) but it was sorta like air cadets.
I had already learned discipline, respect, "chain of command" I respected my elders, aand definitely responsibility from my parents. They didn't rely on a government organization to feed, pay and teach me the basics of beoming a contributing member of society. I found out the so-called "REAL WORLD" actually IS a real world, not the military.

It used to be up to the parents to instill such things in thier children. I've seen others comment on how parents are always looking to blame the government for not teaching their children right from wrong. Perhaps because they are raised with the frame of mind that the military will make you a man, not your parents. VERY weak at the very least.

Thanks for your comments though!

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saddening?

by wordworker In reply to It used to be

I guess if you frame it in a way that says, "go into the Military to become something/anything" (like the great Todd Rundgren LP set), it might be saddening. However, I'm not sure why you spin it that way. The armed forces experience isn't a cookie-cutter thing that's the same for everyone.

I learned to respect my elders from my parents and grandfather the old-fashioned way - a whippin' if I misbehaved. I learned chain of command when I went to work for $0.65/hour in '72 at a fast-food restaurant. I became "a man" thanks to a sweet young thing named Jenny. LOL

So no one in my life relied on the government to do anything for me. I signed up to see what it was all about. I worked side-by-side with guys who didn't have any family to speak of, and guys who avoided jail by joining, but all in all, the people I served with were professionals. They didn't see a career in the Army as any different than working 20 years for GM or Ford (like my dad did). It was to them just a job with decent pay, decent benefits, and a pension if you lasted long enough.

Like I said, I got in because at 23 the $3,000 signing bonus sounded like a godsend, I was bored with being a full-time college student and working full-time. The closest I ever got to the "sh**" was when the zealots bombed our Marine compound in Lebanon. Because of my MOS (militaryoccupational specialty) I was put on alert and could have been summoned to go baby go. Fortunately, I guess, I didn't get sent out.

All that said, the military is or ought to be a great learning experience, and lots of immature boys and girls go in and come out stronger, smarter, and better equipped to do a good job in the civilian world. That's all I'm saying. Is it a panacea for what ails our society? **** no. I mean, we can all see what serving in 'nam did to our boy JimHM's attitude...

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Oz - you needed a rite of passage - its more than killing

by JimHM In reply to Running joke in BC

The military teaches a number of things:

1) Discipline
2) Respect
3) Accepting responsibility for your own actions
4) Discipline
5) Respect for leadership
6) Ability to follow commands

They also educate the recruite - in language, technologies, medical, mechinics whatever their field or MOS will be.

You may not like the military or the way it does things - but until you lived it, and found the life values and life experences that are gained from it, you will never understand it. I am not saying - you can't talk about it until you walked it ... you just will never understand it.

You will never understand the meaning of "Code and Honor" - which is a sad thing, but that was your choice to miss out on great times.

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Yeah the good ole days

by Oz_Media In reply to Oz - you needed a rite of ...

I really do feel that I missed out on the whole Vietnam male bonding thing, yet again I never needed it. I grew up in East Vancouver (BC's Bronx or East LA). Many of my friends and thier brothers were either related to or in a well known East Vancouver motorcycle 'club'.

i've been in some life threatening situations where I have relied on my 'brothers' to hold my back as I would have for them. Your Code and Honor isn't just found in the army. The only difference is that in war you have rules and regulations, in street combat you don't.

Vancouver is notorious for it's East Van gangs (long before the Blood and Crypt stuff that followed)that were up against the first strings of the Triads and other Asian gangs, as it still is but the East Van gangs are no more.

I know that being in a battlefield and being in a street fight aer not the same at all, but the fear and reality of death is. Don't be so flattered that you got to find out in a foreign country instead of your own backyard.

Nobody denies that the military offers decent training and that the educational and trade programs are also effective. My father was an engineer in Singapore and Korea, he kept the tanks rolling and the aircraft starting. He then went home to England and finished his other trade apprenticeships, machining, civil AND marine engineering as well as others, you need them to live in England, there are no free rides.

This isn't my point though. Canadians also have a military, remember they are the ones trying to clean up in Afghanistan after you've moved on, but that doesn't count, we aren't involved in wars here, we just smoke dope and whine about the US... just ask anyone.

the difference between Canada's military and the US is that:
1) we are usually liked and accepted into other countries, we have a solid reputation for fixing problems and working with our allies.

2) We don't parade the streets showing off our military, they are too busy putting out fires, helping the Red Cross to deliver supplies into war zones and rasing money for to gas up THE tank.

3) It isn't looked upn as a rite of passage here. Most will say, "You're in the Canadian Army? Sorry to hear that, when do you get out?"

We are proud of what our military has done, a MASSIVE WWII presence alongside the British. Humanitarian efforts worldwide and those neat displays in the mall each year, cool!

When we see American military, they are killing EACH OTHER (often portrayed as a 1:1 ratio with enemy kills), they are getting car bombed and spat on by whoever they are there to 'save', and always thinking they are the worlds best at walking, running, fighting, smiling, farting, drinking, getting laid, and more than anything WAVING THE FLAG as well as anything else a human does in a day. They portray themselves as the best but we are yet to see why.


There's an advantage to being humble sometimes, people can accept it.

But you are right on one thing, I sure did miss the "good ole days" of laying in a wet rice paddy, sharing BS with another guy sitting in the same wet rice paddy, having no idea what I was doing in a wet rice paddy to begin with and coming home to be spit on by my neighbours.
Ah yes, the good times, sigh.

OM

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Different view

by TheChas In reply to So....

Guru,

You may be seeing a number of people who could not get a job elsewhere.

The sad reality here in the US is that many entry level jobs now require a college education.

For a large number of individuals, the only option that they have to pay for college is to use the money they can get after 2 years of military service.

If you are not:
From a rich family;
A sports super-star;
VERY smart

There are few options available to pay for college without going into a LOT of debt.

The military sells itself as a way to get money for college.
My own son (who is not Marine material) thought joining the Marines would be a good way to get money for college. Until, his mother and I explained to him what he was committing to.

Don't get me wrong, I was not opposed to the idea of him joining the military. I just know that he would not make it through basic training in the Marines.

Chas

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TATTOO ON HER SOUL

by FluxIt In reply to Is Jessica Lynch - A Hero ...

General Krulak spoke about having a variety of principles tattooed to one's soul. What we may be seeing is her tattoo. She does not appreciate being used in books, news media, and other hype channels. Alleged nude pictures of her have been bought. Its amazing Larry Flint actually has moral values by not releasing them? Folks we may be in a new era. Fellow troops are smitting her. Her integrity has been impuned.

She had simple aspirations of being a school teacher who had a sense of duty then desired to return to her humble origins. This is the character our forefathers saw in people. Perhaps what we are seeing is a real patriot that we sort of lost sight of over the years.

Can you imagine a school teacher imparting imparting these kind of values in our youth? Instead of the radical left wing of the NEA Nazi's we have running public schools today.

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I don't think

by maxwell edison In reply to Is Jessica Lynch - A Hero ...

I don't think that she's a hero - except in the sense that ALL G.I.s are heroes for giving some years of their lives to serve their country, some for noble reasons, some for "other" reasons. Did anyone see that TV show on PBS last night (or perhaps some other night) on the Medal of Honor and those who were awarded the medal? All words are (or can be) relative, and using the word "hero" to describe Jessica Lynch is a bit overkill when compared to the "heroes" who were awarded the Medal of Honor.

I don't think she's a coward. I think she's (she was) probably a frightened young girl WAY out of her element, and she found herself in some circumstances that were something other than what she imagined when she joined the Army. She joined the Army in the summer of 2001, before 9-11, and before any indications that the Army would really be fighting in a real war.

I don't think she's stupid. If she is, I should be so stupid for bringing in all those $$$$$$$$$.

I'm not crazy about your "dumb" and "West Virginia" characterization. Just like I'm not crazy about the "arrogant American" characterizations thrown around by others.

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