General discussion


Is only some offensive speech ok?

By jdclyde ·
In this politically correct world we find ourselves in, where you are suppose to pretend you care about hurting someone else's little feelings, who decides what is and what isn't acceptable?

We have discussed flag burning, and it is a hateful and intentionally inflamatory (pun intended) thing to do. Yet groups like the ACL will praise that as a brave and noble thing to do.

"Radio host Don Imus, suspended for two weeks for calling the Rutgers female basketball players "nappy-headed hos.""

Now all the leading racists of the world, including Jackson and Sharpton, are calling for him to be fired, after over 20 years of his being "mean" to EVERYONE he talks to or about.

I personally don't enjoy his show, and didn't even know much about this until the leading racists made sure everyone could get a chance to hear the comment and potentially be offended by it. How many of you knew he said this until the protests started?

He has apologized. Is that good enough?

He says he is not a racist, but if he were, is he entitled to be stupid? If he were a racist, he could always get a job in the future as a Democratic Senator I suppose.

Is everyone just too sensitive?
Is this no big deal?
Is this ground shaking and should shock us to the core?

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by OnTheRopes In reply to responce

I really care what you think and feel that I need to explain myself to you. Although you may never see any evidence of that in any shape, form or fashion just know that I really care.


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Were the girls of Rutgers insulted?

by jdclyde In reply to I work with a man

No, they had no idea how insulted they were until someone told them repeatedly they had been insulted.

If wasn't for people like the unhonorable racist Sharpton, it would have never bothered these girls in the least.

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by jck In reply to Is only some offensive sp ...

Ya know...I think he's a blundering old coot who wouldn't know "cool" if it hit him in the arse with a sledgehammer...and his show has been crap for years.

And I'm in no way defending his comment...but...

However...calling him a racist is off-base.

Why? Here's why...

His comment, in regards to the Rutgers University Women's Basketball Team, was:

That's some nappy-headed hos there.

For anyone who hasn't seen the Rutgers Women's Team...there are 8 black girls, 2 white girls. So if this was a racist comment...he's being racist against his own race too in his comments about the team.

If you exclude those white girls from the picture, then you're discounting their participation in the program. Is that racist of you?

Particularly, Don Imus made a stupid, insensitive, incredibly sexist comment...for which...he should be on his knees begging those girls for forgiveness.

I don't care how illustrious his career is/was. I don't think Don Imus ever attended Rutgers University or any other prestigous university or attained any notable status before his professional career.

In fact, Wikipedia states that Imus stated in a Vanity Fair article that he was a school dropout.

So...if those girls are "hos", then at least they are well-educated and respected "hos"...

And Imus? Well, he is a loser...and now, he's proven it beyond the shadow of a doubt.

So to answer your questions, jd...

Q: Is everyone just too sensitive?
A: No, just the people who want attention or are living in the past.

Q: Is this no big deal?
A: No, it is a big deal. He is an idiot who, because of his out-of-line comments, deserves punishment for belittling them.

Q: Is this ground shaking and should shock us to the core?
A: Not to the core, but if it doesn't disturb you to some extent that a man in this day and age still disparages women of accomplishment for their looks at any age...then...perhaps you might be a bit undersensitive. I would you feel if that was your daughter on that team he was commenting about?

Anyways...he's no racist for commenting against a group of mixed racial ethnicity....but, he's a friggin sexist moron...and a dweeb extraordinaire.

just my 2 cents...

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I'm not going to miss him. In fact, they should fire more.

by DelbertPGH In reply to Is only some offensive sp ...

Imus got fired not because of some hypocritical double standard. He got fired because the advertisers didn't want their brands associated with him, and pulled their money. It's just business. Money was the air under his wings, and if it was still there, CBS would have found some way to live through it and continue, however reluctantly, to receive all those checks.

I used to enjoy Imus, back in 1977, driving around New Jersey. He did skits. He prepared topics. His point was to be funny first, and shocking second. His shock was his impiety: to pull the robes off of revered public figures and show that there was a fallible man underneath, and to show up hypocrisy: either that his victims' pretensions, our desire to overlook their faults, was the basis of a lie. He also played with stereotypes, including racial ones, and showed how much lying was going on. But, he always used humor to drive the needle to the nerve.

Imus gave up on funny a long time ago. Like every other highly paid radio jerk, his game is to say a bunch of bad crap, and stimulate an audience too jaded (or too dumb) to appreciate actual humor. I miss the Imus of 30 years ago, but I won't miss the insulting fool in his shoes now.

I wouldn't cry a minute if nobody ever shoved a microphone in front of Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton again, either. Like Imus and Stern and Limbaugh and Hannity, they make a living by exploiting and deepening the divisions in American life.

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This was about MONEY!

by TechExec2 In reply to Is only some offensive sp ...

Imus was fired over money. This was a "lynching". This was not about decency. I'm not surprised by this. I'm just speaking about it and setting the record straight since it is pretty hard to find the friggin' media doing so.

Advertisers pulled out when they were threatened by economic loss

Are the advertisers doing this for moral reasons? No way! This is all about money. They are deathly afraid of how their own financial interests will be adversely affected by pressure coming from black interest groups picketing, boycotting, all the bad press, etc. The adverse affect of this could last for many years. They simply cut and run (and were smart to do so).

This is just my opinion. I have nothing to back this up. No advertiser has come out publicly and admitted this (no surprise).

"...And so yesterday, I found out after the fact that some of the advertisers had started to pull their money away. Those types of reports don?t land on my desk immediately. And honestly, that is not what is behind this. This is about trust. It?s about reputation. It?s about doing what?s right..." --- Steve Capus, President, NBC News (4)

Baloney! I don't believe for one second that the many millions in advertising dollars lost had nothing to do with NBC canceling the Imus simulcast. If this executive is really that disconnected from his own business, HE should be fired. I don't believe it. I'll bet his boss knew! :^0

The sequence of events was: 1. Two-week suspension. 2. Advertisers pulled out. 3. Imus simulcast canceled.

Furthermore: Does this sound like a guy who has the authority to make this decision on his own? **** no! He's just the front guy who gave the interview. Nobody who operates by waiting for things to come to his desk has any real authority to do anything.

NBC and Don Imus have had a contentious love-hate relationship for years. Imus made lots of money for them, but he also made many disparaging remarks about many NBC shows and was a jerk to many of the NBC people on the set of the MSNBC studio.

"...The Rev. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson met with [CBS President and CEO] Moonves on Thursday to demand Imus? removal, promising a rally outside CBS headquarters Saturday and an effort to persuade more advertisers to defect..." (3)

After watching what happened to advertising on MSNBC, and getting this direct threat from Al and Jessie, CBS caved in over concerns about its own advertising revenues. This was not about decency. It was about money. If it was about decency, Imus would have been fired in the beginning, not given a 2-week suspension. Do these people REALLY expect us to believe this crap? :^0

So... When are Al and Jessie going to stop giving lip service and stage similar protests in front of Death Row Records (et al) to stop the disgusting, racist, sexist, misogynist rap lyrics? Never... Count on it. They could have done it at any time in the last 10 years.

?...Something happened in the last week around America, It?s not just what the radio host did. America said enough is enough. America said we don?t want this kind of conversation, we don?t want this kind of vitriol, especially with teenagers...? --- Bryan Monroe, President of the National Association of Black Journalists (3)

Baloney! All one has to do is check the online polls to see that this is false (1)(2). Nobody (almost...there ARE some vile racists out there) condones Don Imus' remark about the Rutgers student-athletes. But, it's a leap to say that "America" has called for Don Imus' head. Some may complain that these online polls are not scientific. Well, they speak a lot better for "America" than this one man does. He does not speak for "America". He is just someone with an agenda that a small minority of Americans agree with.

?...He says he wants to be forgiven. I hope he continues in that process. But we cannot afford a precedent established that the airways can commercialize and mainstream sexism and racism...? Rev. Al Sharpton (3)

Since "Rev" Sharpton is a "man of God", what exactly is he doing to assist Don Imus, a child of God, in being forgiven and redeeming his soul? I think he is a very poor excuse for a "Rev".

The punishment did not fit the crime

You have to REALLY do something heinous to be fired and thrown off the air in the middle of your own charity radiothon, raising millions of dollars for several important charities, one of which you run yourself. Does the punishment fit the crime? I don't think so. This was about money! CBS' money.

We should not teach our children victimhood

I applaud Vivian Stringer, Rutgers women's basketball coach, for being a great coach and for doing a great job of helping to put focus on the accomplishments of the smart, talented, young student-athletes. But, she has also done them a great disservice. She helped to cement into the minds of these young women that they are VICTIMS, and has shown what you can "get" by being one. This is going to be very hurtful to them. There was a better way to handle this. She should have told them that they should NEVER be a victim no matter what anyone else does. It appears the problem is that she is overcome with her own personal experiences in being black and being victimized in her own life. If we want our children to rise above adversity and not think of themselves as victims, we cannot project our own victimhood onto them.

If she ran Whoville when the Grinch stole Christmas, she would have had a sad remembrance gathering the next day and spoke about how the Grinch stole Christmas once when SHE was a little girl too. By contrast, the Who's in Whoville wisely celebrated Christmas just like always without skipping a beat.

But, I don't want to be overly critical of her. I think she is an exceptional person. Truly.

Who has handled this best of all?

The people I am most proud of in all of this are the student-athletes of the Rutgers women's basketball team. They handled themselves in a far far better way than any of the adults. With young people like this, I know America will be in good hands in the future.


(1) Poll: Did Don Imus deserve to be fired by CBS?
Yes, he went too far, and for no reason: 26%
No, the comment wasn't that big of a deal: 23%
The suspension was deserved, but firing him is an overreaction: 51%

(2) Poll: Do you think Don Imus apologized enough?
Yes: 83%
No: 17%

(3) CBS fires Don Imus from radio show

(4) NBC News: 'Only decision we could reach'

edit: typo

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You sound surprised.

by CharlieSpencer In reply to This was about [i]MONEY![ ...

Of course it was about money.

From the other side of the coin, why was Imus employed in the first place? They didn't give him a block of drive time air time because they though he was the Oracle of Delphi and his pronouncements should be provided to the world. They broadcast his show because he gave them an audience for the sponsors' messages. In other words, he made money for the networks.

His actions caused the networks involved to lose sponsors / money. From a business point of view, that's his real crime. Apparently the networks felt they would not be able to replace the sponsors / money, so they dropped him. Networks drop money-losing shows all the time (what was that '60s show with the spaceship and the pointy-eared alien?); this one is just more high profile than usual.

Know why you don't read about drug problems in auto racing? Your sponsor will drop you like a hot lug nut. Make the sponsor look bad, and you hope you can find another one to back you. If the team owner doesn't think he can find anyone to back you, he has to let you go.

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by jck In reply to You sound surprised.

Imus? Bigger than Star Trek?

Or did you mean its cancellation?

I show kids on a college campus Captain Kirk and Mr. Spock...then pictures of Don and Bernard...Star Trek would win hands down.

As for the cancellation of Star Trek...well...just another example of how stupid executives can be.

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Imus' cancellation was bigger

by CharlieSpencer In reply to NOW JUST WAIT A MINUTE, M ...

The story of Imus' cancellation has been as unavoidable as gas after a Tex-Mex buffet. Why, it ran Anna Nicole's kid right off the second page.

As I recall, Trek departed without rippling much water. And after that last broadcast episode with Kirk and that woman swapping bodies, it might just barely, possible, maybe have been a good thing. Talk about chewing up the scenery. Most of the third season stunk like the afore mentioned flatulence.

As regards stupid network executives, who knows? Maybe local independent radio stations will start airing Imus reruns. Conventions will spring up with fans quoting favorite bits of dialog and playing blooper tapes. Imus will hit the fan club circuit, signing autographs for "Donnies". Books will be written about the fan phenomenon. The internet will abound with fan fiction about the broadcast team's new exploits. After a decade CBS will realize there's a huge market of nostalgic fans with ready cash and nowhere to spend it. They'll make a two-hour special broadcast with fancy sets and updated production values but the same cast and stories. Next thing you know, Patrick Stewart will be on "Shock Jocks: The Next Generation". Don't look for Whoppi Goldberg to co-star...

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How can you say that?

by TechExec2 In reply to You sound surprised.

How can you say "You sound surprised"? I explicitly said "...I'm not surprised by this. I'm just speaking about it and setting the record straight since it is pretty hard to find the friggin' media doing so..."

I should sound DISGUSTED

If you read my post a little more carefully :-) , I should sound DISGUSTED, not surprised. I'm disgusted by the way people came out of the woodwork from all over the place to lynch Imus like they did. And, I'm disgusted that they were successful at it. I'm disgusted at the way the media covered this. I'm disgusted that Al and Jessie were able to whip up unrest over this stupid remark. I'm disgusted that they are both hypocritical and less than honest about all of this. I'm disgusted that they have that much power to manipulate things. I'm disgusted that these so-called "Reverends" are promoting polarization of the races (Where's the forgiveness and reconciliation? Is that what Jesus would do?). I'm disgusted (but not surprised) that everyone is out there talking about "decency" and "new dialog" and a "turning point" and all of the other crap when it is really all about the money. I'm disgusted that Harold Ford, Jr, who was almost single-handedly elected U.S. Senator in Tennessee because of Don Imus' support, completely deserted his friend in a time of crisis (we need leaders with much more courage than that). I'm disgusted that the racist, sexist, misogynist rap lyrics will continue. I'm disgusted that all of the MANY people behind the scenes on the "Imus in the Morning" show will be seriously hurt by this firing (Don will be fine). I'm disgusted that they fired him in the middle of a charity radiothon (how is this incident that important?). I'm disgusted that a contrite sincere apology, over and over, even now accepted by the Rutgers student-athletes and their coach, is not enough to put this to rest. I am disgusted that those special interest groups will settle for nothing less than destroying people and intimidating everyone else with their power.

Did I say I am disgusted? I'm DISGUSTED!

There is something very wrong here

Imus said it. But, none of the advertising dollars would have been lost without political pressure from black special interest groups. There is something very very wrong with that. That is a FAR more important thing that a stupid remark by a 66 year-old man on the radio.

On the other hand...

On the other hand, none of this would have happened if Imus did not say it. It would not have happened if Imus were a beloved figure (who is immune to such political attacks) who just made a voluntary verbal mistake. And, it would not have happened if Imus did not behave like such a jerk to so many people. Even while doing far far more good than most people ever do, his personality was quite outrageous and rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, even me. There is no question that he brought this on himself. But, that doesn't mean his firing is not outrageous and unfair, and that something else is very very wrong here.

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C'mon, tell us how you really feel.

by CharlieSpencer In reply to How can you say that?

"...none of the advertising dollars would have been lost without political pressure from black special interest groups. There is something very very wrong with that."

What's wrong with that? That's how consumer advocacy works. Years ago a religiously conservative organization applied pressure to the Southland Corporation and had Playboy and Penthouse removed from 7-Eleven stores. A letter campaign from Star Trek fans kept the series going a third year after an announced cancellation; Cagney and Lacey fans did the same thing. OSS advocates are pressuring hardware vendors to pre-install Linux, and are boycotting closed source apps. Pepsi benefited when people loudly criticized "New Coke", and Coca-Cola had to bring back the "Classic" product. Because of Christian Coalition complaints, Wal-Mart doesn't carry "Parental Advisory" CDs. Ralph Nader almost single-handedly destroyed the Corvair, and a good thing, too.

"That is a FAR more important thing that a stupid remark by a 66 year-old man..."

Yes, it is. It's important consumers know if they make enough noise and withhold enough money, corporations will listen.

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