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June 18, 2011 at 7:53 am #2210436
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June 18, 2011 at 7:53 am #2845691
I could agree with you were not the zealotry so rampant
by vulpinemac · about 12 years, 9 months ago
In reply to IT personnel motivated by fear?
Almost 20 years ago, a company ran an experiment and filmed it for PBS. The experiment put a brand-new (at the time) PC running Windows 95 against an equally new Macintosh. They hired secretaries from a temp service under the condition that neither had any computer experience. The machines were connected to the corporate network and the two temps were given identical tasks using Microsoft applications. The two were given 30 days training to familiarize themselves with the hardware and software, then worked for 60 days in a full production environment. During the experiment, all down time for any reason was logged as well as the effective productivity of the two individuals. Again, their tasks were identical.
At the end of the experiment the data was collated and guess what the results were. To summarize, the temp using the Mac approached 100% more productivity than the Windows user while maintenance costs were 60% lower.
It is well known that IT is the single most costly department in the enterprise. The desktop support staff is manned with people specifically trained for Windows maintenance and happen to like the job security that Windows has given them over the decades. To realize that more than half of them could lose their jobs if Apple’s hardware and operating system manages to smooth their troubled seas generates fear and hatred for that different platform. Considering that I have seen that hatred online and in person for more than 20 years, I think I can state with some confidence that it’s not just the DIYers who hate Apple.
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June 18, 2011 at 3:05 pm #2845686
i am sure you are right
by jjfitz · about 12 years, 9 months ago
In reply to I could agree with you were not the zealotry so rampant
About the almost 20 year old data but even 2 years is old in computing technology is old. Its relevance is practically nonexistent now.
First of all no one who works in my IT department “hates” Apple. In fact, many of them have iPads. They don’t use them at work. I prefer my Flyer which I do use at work.
I disagree with your statement that IT people stick with Windows because that is where they are trained.
Most IT departments use Linux heavily on the back end. We do. Most web sites run on Apache servers. -not Windows.
We don’t “hate” Apple. We just don’t see it as the most practical and cost effective solution in the enterprise.
That being said, we do support Apple Laptops at work and we spend a lot of time trying to get them to work as well as a Windows machine on our network.-
June 18, 2011 at 3:08 pm #2845684
Quibble
by charliespencer · about 12 years, 9 months ago
In reply to i am sure you are right
He didn’t say “IT people stick with Windows because that’s where they are trained.” He specifically limited it to “desktop support staff”. Those folks rarely deal with Linux or Apache.
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June 18, 2011 at 7:50 pm #2845678
my bad
by jjfitz · about 12 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Quibble
Let me add that all of my desktop support staff have Linux boxes as their personal desktops. It is easier to support multiple segregated networks via VM instances using a giant linux box. They support Linux thin clients, Windows machines and even scary Apple desktops and laptops.
My point is none of the desktop support or my NetOps staff have any fear of or hatred for the Apple because they use them.
What we use is the right tool for the job. In the typical enterprise that means Windows OS.
We do work with Apples in the enterprise but it usually comes down to the enterprise apps requiring Windows OS or IE to run. Oh, and try to find vendor support for Apples accessing an enterprise app! The vendor almost always says, “Get a Windows box.”
So the most common solution for getting an Apple to work in the enterprise is to install a VM instance of Windows on it (Parallels). To me, this layering does not make any sense.
So tell me. Where is the fear? Don’t blame IT departments. -
June 19, 2011 at 8:02 am #2846361
One thing…
by ansugisalas · about 12 years, 9 months ago
In reply to my bad
Sure, layering because you have to may be uncool… but what’s the difference to having “VM instances using a giant linux box”? Fundamentally it’s the same thing.
Also, security wise it could be a good thing. A lot fewer people write generic malware for “OS X boxes pretending to be MS boxes”, the size of the audience matters. -
June 19, 2011 at 1:10 pm #2846350
economics
by jjfitz · about 12 years, 9 months ago
In reply to One thing…
It is cheaper to have one big Linux box that can be configured (and reconfigured) to connect to several separate networks than several smaller desktops.
It does not make sense outside of the IT department at my company.
Although Apple’s OS is not targeted for malware as much as Windows, it is not invulnerable. Just look at the recent attack.
With the right security tools, managing less expensive Windows, an enterprise can successfully mitigate computer threats without layering on desktop OS complexity. -
June 19, 2011 at 2:42 pm #2846347
Oh, I don’t buy into the iron-clad mac BS…
by ansugisalas · about 12 years, 9 months ago
In reply to economics
I was referring to the VM.
Every little subterfuge helps.
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June 18, 2011 at 3:05 pm #2845685
If there’s fear, I don’t think it’s at the support level.
by charliespencer · about 12 years, 9 months ago
In reply to IT personnel motivated by fear?
The old saying was, “No one ever got fired for buying IBM.” Now it’s Microsoft instead. If there’s fear, it’s at the Director or CxO level. I suspect any fear at that level is mostly about capital already invested, and productivity lost during a switch.
I’ve supported ‘Wintel’ boxes my entire support career; I’ve never seen an Apple system. Still, if the boss came in Monday and said, “Those who make strategic decisions say we’re going with Apple systems” (or Linux), I don’t think it would bother me. Most desktop people have to pick up new skills all the time anyway. If nothing else, it would mean I could scrap some of the 5+ year old systems.
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June 18, 2011 at 8:04 pm #2845677
no fear here
by jjfitz · about 12 years, 9 months ago
In reply to If there’s fear, I don’t think it’s at the support level.
I am the CIO at my company and I am not afraid of recommending and deploying the right tool for the job. The IT folks I have had the pleasure working with look forward to trying out new technology and getting it to work in the enterprise.
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June 18, 2011 at 7:45 pm #2845679
Fear of what?
by hal 9000 · about 12 years, 9 months ago
In reply to IT personnel motivated by fear?
I’ve supported all Platforms over the years and some of those even fell into the camp of Windows and OSX.
I fail to see how needing to support a different platform is something to fear.
I do however get a good laugh about what I’m called by people when I criticize both the Windows and OSX Platforms for their poor coding and general security holes. :^0
Col
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June 18, 2011 at 8:41 pm #2845676
Reduced
by santeewelding · about 12 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Fear of what?
To non-discussions, are you?
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June 19, 2011 at 1:33 pm #2846349
As opposed to
by charliespencer · about 12 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Reduced
the discussion preferences of others?
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June 19, 2011 at 1:45 pm #2846348
Negative
by santeewelding · about 12 years, 9 months ago
In reply to As opposed to
Inherent, rather than, “opposed to”. “Fear” and “hatred” squandered on claptrap.
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June 19, 2011 at 11:48 pm #2846301
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June 20, 2011 at 1:52 am #2846300
Fear and loathing on TR…
by ansugisalas · about 12 years, 9 months ago
In reply to ‘Hatred’
Now I get it… the new look only works for people on acid! Keeps the bats away.
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June 20, 2011 at 3:51 pm #2846262
I quite like the bats
by nexs · about 12 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Fear and loathing on TR…
It makes for interesting conversation
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June 19, 2011 at 2:47 pm #2846346
Yes exactly
by hal 9000 · about 12 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Reduced
If I post to a Big Technical Thread I can not keep track of what happens once more than 20 people post to it in one night. :p
But the really frustrating thing is how something I post just disappears a day or two latter, and a major problem is how I have to switch browsers to post a reply to something. It’s driving me nuts.
And as I’m [b]Crazy[/b] enough to begin with I don’t need to get any further over the edge. :^0
Col
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June 19, 2011 at 4:18 pm #2846342
I’m not a big fan of this "take this offline" in place of the reply link
by jjfitz · about 12 years, 9 months ago
In reply to Yes exactly
I don’t like popping around to follow a thread.
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June 19, 2011 at 5:55 pm #2846337
Iâ??m not either
by hal 9000 · about 12 years, 9 months ago
In reply to I’m not a big fan of this "take this offline" in place of the reply link
But at least I had to try as nothing else was working. :_|
Col
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June 20, 2011 at 6:35 am #2846291
Ditto.
by charliespencer · about 12 years, 9 months ago
In reply to I’m not a big fan of this "take this offline" in place of the reply link
My one test resulted in a blood oath to never use it again.
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June 21, 2011 at 7:31 am #2846205
Haiku to Blue
by jck · about 12 years, 9 months ago
In reply to IT personnel motivated by fear?
The sky is so blue
Why are you two still fighting?
Just another day
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