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linux will never compete with windows in the home market

By bobgroz ·
linux is a business OS period. It is unix based and requires a lot of knowledge. The average person cannot handle it's quirk's.

Something is always wrong. Especially if you have current hardware. I doubt very much Ubuntu or any linux distro will support the ATI 5870 or 5890. You won't even get a screen. The display code will **** up, and personally I don't have the hours to spend trying to get current hardware working with linux.

Windows 7, while being more expensive, is LIGHTYEARS ahead of any linux distro for the HOME user.

Keep linux where it belongs, in the business segment. It will never achieve home desktop success. never.

sorry folks, that's just the way it is.

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Answers Bob

by jck In reply to Myths?

Is it a myth wallmart stopped selling desktop computers preloaded with Linux?

Wal-Mart based it on profit, not usability of the Linux OS.

Is in a myth that newbies to linux have to wrestle with xorg.conf to configure their computers?

Yes, that would be a myth. I've not had to touch xorg.conf yet in Kubuntu.

Is a myth that at least 80% (and that's conservative) of all HOME COMPUTERS have windows on them?

Over 90% of Home PCs are Windows, but again not because of Linux unusability.

See, Microsoft had a 12 year headstart and money as a commercial enterprise to fund it.

Most Linux innovation has come out of enthusiast, student projects, etc., up until about 2003 or so.

Maybe people at work use linux at home, but they know linux.

I know all my Linux from experimentation at home, and even implemented it at a job because of it.

I will not back down - windows is the BEST operating system for HOME USE period. Anybody that thinks otherwise AT THIS TIME is smoking drugs.

A) I don't do drugs...sorry to burst your bubble

B) Depends on your idea of best.

Windows = best for software availability: Yes.
Windows = best for availability in stores: Yes

But...

Windows = easier to use for a total newbie to computers? No.
Windows = cheaper? No
Windows = more stable? No
Windows = more secure out of the box? No (through Vista)
Windows = more support? No

To a TOTALLY new person, Linux is just as easy to sit down with an Ubuntu for Dummies book and learn as it would be with a Windows PC and a copy of Windows 7 for Dummies.

If your idea of "best" is the ability to get any game, sure Windows has the advantage. Of course, Windows was the *only* major player for a decade after Mac initially crapped out in about 1989.

In reference to Kubuntu Linux:

Linux is very usable. Linux is very fast. Linux is very secure. Linux has wizards. Linux has an updater to let you update and keep your machine secure and running well and get the latest version.

And best of all.

Linux is free, and so is most of the software for it.

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Thank You jck

by shodges119 In reply to Answers Bob

I chose not to break out his comments that way but someone had to.

I took it that no one would change his mind. Misled as it is, it is his opinion.

I would love to sit him down beside me and have him configure a Windows box and I configure a Ubuntu box on the same hardware. I think he would be absolutely amazed how far it has come.

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Agreed

by jck In reply to Thank You jck

I mean, I just loaded a box with a Windows XP Professional x64, Windows 7 Professional x64, and Kubuntu 9.10 x64 triple boot.

I can tell you for a fact, Kubuntu Linux was the fastest to configure the installation.

When I booted all 3, Kubuntu asked me for no drivers. It had even configured my Wireless-N card.

The only thing I had to load? ATI's Linux-based Catalyst solution with the 9.12 drivers.

Windows XP and 7 Pro x64s both asked me for device drivers after reboot.

So, the Kubuntu install was the easiest and fastest.

I can understand a lot of people think Windows is the "best" because you can get the most games, more computer stores/shops support Windows, etc.

But, Linux has since I started using it back in college (around '** or '92) has come a LONG way. I mean, Linux back then was basically like DOS 4 or 5. And with something like Yggadrasil Linux, getting X11Rn to work was a nightmare.

But now, installing Kubuntu Linux is like Windows:

- Put in the CD/DVD
- Boot from it
- Make username, timezone, language, install partition, GRUB boot decisions
- Let it install
- Remove CD/DVD and Reboot

And soon, I'll be working with Wine to see if I can actually run some Windows software from an NTFS partition.

If so, I'll be playing Shadowbane through Wine when the Emu project gets completed.

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the bad old days

by lucien86 In reply to linux will never compete ...

Have to say that I dislike Linux but thats largely because I loathe Unix. Spent far to many hours trying to do the simplest thing battling through labyrinthine man pages that inevitably don't even contain the right piece of information at all. And filing systems, sure microsoft is bad but the unix file structure has to be one of the ugliest things ever created by humankind on Earth. The trouble with unix is that it was written before the concept of 'user interface' was invented.

Have to say that the real difference between Windows and Linux is in the software polish and there's no getting around that. In general most open source software tends to be a little more clunky and difficult to use than its commercial rivals, and again its the same old complaint of terrible manuals or worse no manual at all.

Actually though Linux is in the home - I believe that both the PS3 and Xbox360 are built on Linux based operating systems.

In my work I do a great deal of strategic type analysis and I think that the world in general has a desperate need for a brand new general purpose operating system written from scratch. With a complete new architecture and design, and maybe even a new CPU and hardware platform to. (Ok I'll admit my own application area needs these things particularly badly.)

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well stated

by bobgroz In reply to the bad old days

Lucien,

You really seem to have a handle on the situation. I happen to be a "command prompt" type of guy because I worked on the supreme operating system - MVS. You wouldn't believe the sheer power of that IBM monster. It runs a full posix complient unix as a mere thread. IBM runs their webserver on the unix thread that runs off the mvs. Unix is just another application that runs on MVS.

The reason IBM put it there was so that MVS could absorb all the server, GUI work as well as the mammoth text based work it runs.

We never IPL'd (booted) the machine. Maybe once a year. Adding hardware was completely dynamic. You could add a string of DASD (hard drives) on not have to re IPL (reboot). Also several instances of MVS were run together (we ran 4) so that if one operating system got sick, it dynamically swapped it's work to another healthy running copy of MVS. To the end user it appeared there was 100% up time for the entire year. Linux (and unix) for that matter is a joke compared to MVS.

MVS runs western civilization. If it were to "go away" all major banks, financial institutions, fortune 500 companies, the military, even disney world would come crashing to a halt.

Working on that system was tremendous pressure, and I did it for 20 years. It finally took it's toll on my body and I developed an autoimmune disease called "prostatitis".

Two doctors (one of the a supposed expert at temple university hospital) in temple, fed me a powerful antibiotic called cipro in a class of antibiotics known as fluoroquinolones. In addition, for pain, I was given a powerful prescription NSAID called "Vioxx". Vioxx has since been pulled off the market as it killed more Americans than died in Vietnam.

It was well documented never to give a patient a quinolone antibiotic with any NSAID.

Both medications work on something called the cp450 pathway in the liver. In essence the Vikoxx suppressed the cp450 pathway enzymes in my liver so I could not metabolize the quinolone.

The quinolone subsequently broke through the blood/brain barrier and I suffered irreparable brain damage.

You can see my website at www.fqvictims.org

I would warn anybody here never to take a quinolone antibiotic. Even if you have in the past and have not had any problems, these drugs are fat soluble and remain in the body for years, 10+ years sometimes.

Everybody has a threshold and eventually what has been stored in the body will combine with a "new" script someone may be taking and BAM! life as it was known is over.

I live in constant pain. Mental pain. Severe anxiety and depression, borderline seizure activity, insomnia, ringing in the ears, hot sweats, cold chills, suicidal ideation, I could go on and on.

If you go to youtube and search on "bobgroz" (without quotes) and watch the video "Prescription Drug Reaction to Cipro and Vioxx" you can see the sheer **** I've gone through. My family filmed the agony and torture blasted upon me in this wonderful democracy called america or the united states. Little do people know 60%+ for the FDA comes from the DRUG COMPANIES. Also, the DRUG COMPANIES have bought the television with all their high paid drug ads, they have bought the legislators and had to actually be sued to put a black box warning (the strongest warning on a drug) on quinolone antibiotics.

I would advise anyone reading this thread never take a quinolone antibiotic such as cipro or levaquin or floxin or avelox or tequin or trovan or factive, etc. and insist on older safer antibiotics from your doctor.

I have lost all my bottom teeth because quinolones bind to calcium and rot away the teeth and bones.

I'm 51 years old but have the body and mind of someone in their 80's. I have suffered torture for 10 years, lost a 6 figure career as an MVS systems programmer for a fortune 500 company based in Manhattan. I had worked there for 20 years. I was in the top 5% of systems programmers (as decided by my peers), and lost a job I loved very much. My marriage fell apart 4 years after being permanently brain damaged, and have been forced to move into my widowed 74 year old mother's home. My 14 year old daughter also lives here. I have missed her entire life growing up - for the first 2 years I was in bed 24x7. I needed 24x7 care.

I live on social security disability + long term disability from my job. It's not near what I earned working, but I can pay my mother a fair amount to live here with my daughter. If I had to live alone I would be dead.

I only posted this tread because I read something in Tech Republic about on a board about Linux being a great operating system for home use. Knowing that was total absurdity, I just had to vent and correct the error in that thread.

Someone named deadly something put me down early in this tread telling the community I probably only bought computers with operating systems already installed on them.

I can't stand mediocre hobbyists acting like real programmers and putting down someone they know nothing about so I told him where he stood with me. Of course I've been blamed for being mean or nasty, but in truth HE was the first to put me down. I was just waiting for it anyway. These linux "gurus" (at least that's what they think they are) love to put down someone who does not share their views, even if that someone is right.

You are very correct. Command prompts are something of the past as far as a home user goes. Complex commands to install software are also something of the past.

Sloppy, buggy GUI's that are just copies of windows GUI (notice how linux has a "start" bar with cascading windows - just like windows invented back in 1995 - except it doesn't work nearly as well. The GUI is about as stable as a broken leg, and often it is imperative you understand the command prompt to even begin to think of running Linux.

This is very outdated software for home use. It is circa 1970's with a sloppy GUI slapped on to make it look modern. Whether it be KDE or GNOME it's all slop.

People in this thread have reported they installed windows machines in their place of business - all of which failed. That should give you or anyone reading any of this a barometer of their level of expertise. If you can't give your users working windows platforms, you are a sorry technician. My 14 year old could achieve that task.

With things like jump lists, homegroups, libraries, mouse gestures, easy ISO management, great multimedia tools out of the box, a wonderful media center included, windows 7 simply stomps Linux to death when it comes to HOME USE.

Watch for future releases of Linux distros. They will try to copy the above features, but it will be sloppy and won't work half of the time. That's because the people who write linux code really are not paid professionals.

They are hobbyists, probably fair to good coders, but they are all over the place with no place of central management. "Contributions" are written into the operating system in a mish mash sort of way, and the result is a buggy, crash prone, confusing morass called an "Operating System". It makes for a good server, and has a good HTML server in Apache, but beyond it's use as a small to midrange server for small to midrange businesses, it's nothing that great.

I predict it will go the way of OS/2. It will become less and less popular as windows continues to grow and mature into a solid Operating System. It is already struggling for maybe 10% of home user desktop market, and that 10% is comprised of Linux fanatics.

It will not last. You just can't get a free lunch. That's a basic principle. If you don't pay, you get what you pay for. Pay for nothing, get nothing.

I'm happy to pay 200 bucks for a copy of windows 7, it's a pleasure to work with at home - I just love it.

Thanks for backing me up. You are courageous to tell the truth to a pack of Linux wolves and I highly respect you for that......

Sincerely,

Bob

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Macintosh Irony

by dcolbert Contributor In reply to linux will never compete ...

Bobgroz, you won't find that I disagree with a lot of what you have to say in your post. I just struggled, for the third time, with rebuilding a Dell with an odd Nvidia card in it that requires manual tweaking of the xorg.conf file in order to display at resolutions above 800x600. This is a setup that any Win release all the way back to Win95 would configure perfectly.

But, I disagree that being *nix based means that you can't have a strong non-business niche.

Right now, both the Macintosh and Android (and countless other embedded devices) prove this theory wrong.

As a matter of fact, at the Enterprise level, the IBM XIV storage solution allows the most Jr. level of system administrators to administer a San type storage solution, and this is a Linux based interface.

Macs are the preferred PCs of those who don't *ever* want to know what editing a registry or command line config file is like. Yet, they're based on not just Linux, but full blown Unix.

Linux has no cohesive business strategy, because Linux is not a cohesive corporate presence. The same anarchy that the Linux celebrates is the one which will prevent it from ever having a strong desktop OS presence, for as long as the desktop OS presence is relevant.

Furthermore, in order for Linux to ever become centralized enough in authority and execution to become a significant game player, it will have to become so much like the OS X and Windows model, it will be virtually indistinguishable - as far as corporate ethics are concerned.

If Google gets their way, we may just all live to see that day.

That sounds like a hollow victory for Linux. You'll be freed from your Microsurfdom, just in time to be enslaved by the Google Cloud.

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Microsoft Windows, the best set of stolen software you can buy

by Deadly Ernest In reply to linux will never compete ...

I just love it when people talk about the great software developed for PCs by Microsoft, yet that's still to happen.

MS-DOS bought from another person for a song and licensed to IBM.

Windows, stolen from Apple Mac when Gates was working a joint project with them. Simply because it was a good idea and they hadn't patented it. Including the menu system.

Internet Explorer, stolen from Mosaic, because it was a good idea and they hadn't patented it.

The same for the rest of the software Microsoft has released as theirs, usually bought today as it's getting harder to steal, except from the Open Source community.

The fancy Aero graphics in Vista and Win 7 are stolen from the Glass 3D for Linux, and Mac.

The concept of the User Account Control is the Microsoft application of the Unix / Linux SUDO process, and not as well done or as well secured.

The only actual work Microsoft has done is to amend the software to nestle Windows into the DOS code they started with and slowly willow out most of the DOS as they reset it to work directly with the Windows GUI application instead of the DOS operating system.

...............

When Microsoft introduced the Ribbon System in MS Office 2007, they ignored criticisms from people who wanted the old style menus and customised toolbars. The result of this is many people who are no longer happy to use Microsoft Office as it's much too different to what they know and they aren't interested in learning a whole new system. Microsoft still ignore the reports from consumers that they want the old style menus and customised toolbars.

One outcome of this I've seen is some organisations are switching to using Open Office as it's easer and quicker to have people switch to Open Office from previous versions of Microsoft Office, than to switch to Microsoft Office 2007. One organisation I know of has done the switch as most of the people who use their computers are older volunteers, and don't have the time to do training to use the new Microsoft Office. This organisation alone is a loss of over 10,000 Microsoft Office licences, and there's no telling where they'll go when they have to give up using Windows XP as they've already found out their people don't like Vista or Win 7. Most of these volunteers also own and run small to medium businesses, and some are executives in larger organisations. You can be sure that the change over will be mentioned and discussed in their work places, too. And who knows where that will end.

....................

Over the years, Microsoft have spent a lot of time and effort creating proprietary standards and pushed to have them made the industry standards. So far, none have been made the only official standard, and some have all but fallen by the wayside as the official standard was universally accepted. none of that has stopped Microsoft from pushing their own stuff at the industry, in efforts to get them used as de facto standards. Only time will tell how well the Microsoft efforts to lock everyone into their software and take control of the industry go.

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how many copies

by bobgroz In reply to Microsoft Windows, the be ...

of windows do home users buy verses linux. You guys always whine but never do anything about it. I'm tired of your incessant whining. Would you like cheese with that whine?

Freakin do something about it, Linux. And don't say it's impossible . You need to innovate and greatly enhance your quality control standards. YOu need rock solid GUI's with no command prompt (except hat is needed by tech support).

People install software and dependencies screw them, they are knocked down by decisions to make something modular or direct in the kernel. They don't even know what a kernel IS.

Yeah, maybe tux racer will install without problems, but the stuff they see in the install buckets they really want won't go on.

Microsoft didn't steal anything. Stealing is against the law. I haven't seen Microsoft sent to jail. They had the vision to see technologies that would be needed and grabbed them. That is due to their vision, not because they stole anything.

Your argument is crap. It's whining crap. All you linux heads do it. Believe it or not, Linux has a very small market share into ANY market, but especially into the home desktop market.

I like the ribbon style in the office products, as I'm sure many people do. It makes so many task so much easier.

Open office is decent but it's no Microsoft office. And who wants to relearn a bunch of new software anyway?

Why are we talking about Open Office on a Linux vs Windows thread anyway?

Damned Deadly, you are so blinded. You remind me of the OS/2 heads that just couldn't accept that OS/2 was dead.

I was saddened by it, but I moved on. And to be fair to Microsoft they have greatly improved their desktop product. Windows 7 is a pure joy to work with. It has gotten excellent reviews.

Whine all you want. It's just counterproductive and you really are not helping your situation at all. Nobody wants to hear your excuses. Produce, Innovate, Improve, that's the only way your little Linux hobby will ever be something really important.

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bobgroz: I'd like to answer

by jck In reply to how many copies

how many copies of windows do home users buy verses linux.

How many copies of Windows are bought? Comparatively not a lot. Windows is usually pre-installed, not purchased stand-alone.

Linux: Even fewer. Home versions of Linux...are free to download and install. No fee required.

You guys always whine but never do anything about it. I'm tired of your incessant whining. Would you like cheese with that whine?

I'm not whining. I've just been trying to explain to you why your views are flawed or misconceived.

Freakin do something about it, Linux. And don't say it's impossible . You need to innovate and greatly enhance your quality control standards. YOu need rock solid GUI's with no command prompt (except hat is needed by tech support).

Linux and Apache already took the webserver market from IIS.

They are now taking what SQL Server has of the RDBMS market away with MySQL and PostgreSQL.

As for "rock solid"-

I've never had Linux crash because of a driver. EVER.

Windows: at least once a week.

People install software and dependencies screw them, they are knocked down by decisions to make something modular or direct in the kernel. They don't even know what a kernel IS.

Yeah, maybe tux racer will install without problems, but the stuff they see in the install buckets they really want won't go on.

Shadowbane runs fine under Wine, Cedega and other emulators, and so does WoW (from what I was told by jmgarvin).

I've never played Tux Racer. Have to check it out lol

Microsoft didn't steal anything. Stealing is against the law. I haven't seen Microsoft sent to jail. They had the vision to see technologies that would be needed and grabbed them. That is due to their vision, not because they stole anything.

Actually, that's not vision. Vision is conceptualizing ideas on your own with little or no help.

What Microsoft did is considered illegal nowadays, and is called intellectual property theft. Back when MS did it to Mac, IBM, Xerox, etc., patent and intellectual property law was not well developed or defined.

I know, because I worked with the lawyers at a major corp who did that and who wanted me to go back and study law to pursue it.

Microsoft innovated what? Recycle Bin? By making it rectangular instead of round and renaming it? lol

Your argument is crap. It's whining crap. All you linux heads do it. Believe it or not, Linux has a very small market share into ANY market, but especially into the home desktop market.

Linux owns the webserver market. Case closed.

Linux has a larger DBMS market now than Windows, because more large enterprises run Oracle or DB/2 than SQL server, and more small businesses are starting to run MySQL because...it's free with Linux.

I like the ribbon style in the office products, as I'm sure many people do. It makes so many task so much easier.

From the users here (over 400), the ones who have tried Office 2010 that we trialed didn't like it.

Open office is decent but it's no Microsoft office. And who wants to relearn a bunch of new software anyway?

OpenOffice is basically open source MS Office with different steps and terminology.

It's not that much relearning, unless you are an advanced user who does templates and macros and all. And, that's not your typical home user.

Why are we talking about Open Office on a Linux vs Windows thread anyway?

Because OpenOffice is/was part of Sun Microsystems' open source initiatives.

Damned Deadly, you are so blinded. You remind me of the OS/2 heads that just couldn't accept that OS/2 was dead.

OS/2? As in Warp? That was better than 3.1. too bad IBM didn't know how to market a product. Really sad.

And so far as I've seen, Ernest has been right on the mark.

I was saddened by it, but I moved on. And to be fair to Microsoft they have greatly improved their desktop product. Windows 7 is a pure joy to work with. It has gotten excellent reviews.

Windows 7 is far better than Vista, I give it that.

But you want to talk about a learning curve...I've used forms of Windows since 3.0. Windows 7 is taking a lot of getting used to, from how the task bar now works to where to find certain configuration items.

Whine all you want. It's just counterproductive and you really are not helping your situation at all. Nobody wants to hear your excuses. Produce, Innovate, Improve, that's the only way your little Linux hobby will ever be something really important.

Like Ernest said...the *nix world did innovate:

Transparent windowing
User-level control of apps execution
True multitasking
Semaphores and threading
True GUIs

Mac innovated the trashcan style disposing of files.

Microsoft steals or buys cheap (usually through coercion or leveraging attrition) technology. They don't believe in playing fair or playing nice. They are cutthroats. Ballmer is the biggest one too.

MS, if they did anything, brought together things. But, they innovated very little if anything.

They are like the Borg of technology now. They assimilate what they aren't prevented from by law, and call it "their innovation".

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how many copies of windows do home users buy verses linux

by Neon Samurai In reply to how many copies

Ask that question again when both platforms have equal representation on retail shelves or oem ordering websites. Hiding options away from customers then asking such a question seems a little disingenuous.

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