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Lots of IT jobs but vacant for MONTHS!

By murso ·
I am just wondering if anyone else has noticed the following trend and why it is happening. Starting around 12/05, I noticed more IT jobs began to open up in my area after the "drop off a sheer cliff" back in '00. Now, companies are begging for IT staff and yet they are taking weeks and months to actually hire people. The jobs are posted and stay posted for as long as 8 months or more.

But why?????????????

There are thousands of highly skilled and talented IT folk in my area, I personally have more work freelance than I can handle and yet companies cannot seem to get off their asses to actually hire someone.
One position I had applied for back in March is STILL up for grabs and it is basic IT stuff. I finally emailed the HR person in frustration just to get a bead on why the position was still open and she said the "interview team" was still gathering itself to start the process after getting hundreds (her words) of qualified applicants.

Anyone got any clues about this trend?

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Job boards...

by murso In reply to Contradictions mean there ...

Can you cite examples? Specifically which job boards?

Sure, if you go to America's Job Bank website, take a look at the positions going back over the last few months. I think they archive back 6 months. In particular, you will see postings that reappear again and again. The others places I have seen it are with the individual companies, and for that I'd have to make a list the length of my arm :).


I agree with your number 2 reason as a great possibility. One position I applied for would always ask for salary and you would never hear from them. Finally, I submitted their online app with zero in the salary field and they emailed me. I gave the standard "fair compensation" line so as not to pidgeon hole myself and they responded back with the range and it was $20,000 less than it should have been for what they needed. No IT person in FL worth a damn would have done that job for that pay, so I realized why that posting stayed online.


All of your reasons are valid and give me some insight that I don't have from this end, thank you!

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duplicate post

by murso In reply to Contradictions mean there ...
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Lots's of them on Job Boards as well

by Tony Hopkinson In reply to duplicate post

One per pimp it seems.

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Ha! Good one :) eom

by murso In reply to Lots's of them on Job Boa ...
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Citizenship Franchise

by Dr_Zinj In reply to Contradictions mean there ...

I don't mind qualified people coming to this country, going through the guantlet to become citizens, and then getting jobs. They earned their way the same as our parents. If people were really worried about illegal immigrants, then make it mandatory that everyone have proof of citizenship before being hired.

You come to this country to work, you'd better be also training to become a citizen. Otherwise, it's back to where you came from, and don't come back.

H1Bs don't level the playing field by raising people up, they lower everything except the companies' profits.

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The H1B problem

by tappy0814 In reply to Contradictions mean there ...

For 'permanent' jobs, a lot of companies do not want H1B guys. There is a lot of issues to be taken care of in hiring H1B. My employer for example, does not entertain and candidate requiring sponsorship for full time employee positions.

The H1B guys are not paid less than US citizens or permanent residents. INS has strict rules about the minimum salaries paid to H1B employees. Believe me they make more than most of us not H1B guys.

Consulting companies prefer H1Bs. They are usually cheaper in the first year of 2 of coming to the USA. These guys have many years of exp but come here and work on programmer level positions for the miniumum or near min that INS specifies.

The real low cost workers are those working offshore. Companies like TCS, Infosys and many others get projects with say 50 people at 25/Hr. But of these 48 may be working in India. And there they get paid maybe 10/Hr.
But the 2 who are on site get paid 50-60 per hour or a salary like 75-100K. These 2 are usually team leads or project managers. I dont think they lower the wages for everyone. All the H1B guys I know (been here a few years) make more than me although they are on contract positions and I am on a full time employee position.


H1B workers in the usa can quit as easily as you and I. The portability laws allows this and makes it pretty easy. Most such workers do change jobs in the first year and move on to higher wages.

They do compete with us for the same jobs, but it is well known that such guys work long hours and put their jobs before their personal and family life. This is typical of all immigrants. And I appreciate their dedication to the job and their careers.

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Partly right, partly VERY WRONG

by TechExec2 In reply to The H1B problem

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Your post is partly right, and partly very wrong.

I notice that you are in NYC. Know that things in NYC are not as adversely affected as in most other places in the USA. Try living and working in Detroit for the next year and you'll know what I mean.


"The H1B guys are not paid less than US citizens or permanent residents. INS has strict rules about the minimum salaries paid to H1B employees. Believe me they make more than most of us not H1B guys."

This is simply false. You can believe what you want to believe. There is a lot of cheating on the INS rules. And, if an H-1B worker is making more than you, the corresponding American worker who would have had his job would have been making even more than that.


"They are usually cheaper in the first year of 2 of coming to the USA. These guys have many years of exp but come here and work on programmer level positions for the miniumum or near min that INS specifies."

That was my point. These are the guys that lower all wages by decreasing the upward pressure on wages that is caused by supply vs. demand. When the supply of cheap workers is inserted into the job market by the government, it lowers the price. This is Economics 101. To understand this, deport all 500,000 H-1B workers from the USA today. What would happen to pay rates tomorrow? I cannot make this point any clearer than that.

Obviously, pay rates will vary for the hundreds of thousands of H-1Bs now living and working in the USA. There isn't a single rate. But, by law, the specified minimum rate is just $60K for people with a master's degree. That is way too low and far below what the prevailing wage for such talent used to be.

It never ceases to amaze me that U.S. lawmakers who promote "free trade" and "market-based economies" choose to interfere with the market whenever things do not break on the side of U.S. corporations. Labor too expensive? Do a "free trade" agreement with a foreign country that enables work to go offshore. And, pass a law that allows cheap foreign workers to legally work INSIDE the USA and call it "jobs Americans won't do". Problem solved.


"But of these 48 may be working in India. And there they get paid maybe 10/Hr. But the 2 who are on site get paid 50-60 per hour or a salary like 75-100K. These 2 are usually team leads or project managers."

Technical managers and senior engineers always make a lot more. American technical managers and senior engineers running/leading a team of 48 engineers would typically make a lot more than $75K or $100K. And, what about those 48 American jobs that are now making $10/hour in India? Both of these are the whole point of my post. Your post is supporting my position. Thanks.

So, let's summarize. We have two pseudo-Americans making $75K-$100K that should be making $150K. And, we have 48 unemployed Americans. Check.


"They do compete with us for the same jobs"

No, they don't. Once a company has been allocated an H-1B visa, it will hire an H-1B visa worker for that job. There is never an interview process where Americans and H-1B visa holders both apply for the same job and the company makes their choice.


"And I appreciate their dedication to the job and their careers."

I do also. That is not the point.

What I really appreciate is the same dedication of the American engineer who has the $500,000 mortgage on an average home in the Silicon Valley, and the wife and children. Or, should I say HAD THE $500,000 MORTGAGE??

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post an official request for an H1B request - take a look

by coffee junky In reply to Partly right, partly [I]V ...

you will see it is for a major firm GE's NBC/universal unit at 90,000

granted their orinal posting that may of stayed unfilled was only on Monster, and their web site.

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And your point is???

by TechExec2 In reply to post an official request ...
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More on H1B

by tappy0814 In reply to Partly right, partly [I]V ...

Try living and working in Detroit for the next year and you'll know what I mean"
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I would not try to market my skills where it is not in demand or where the returns are poor. Why should I work in Detroit when NY offers so much more. This is economics 101, like you say.
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"The H1B guys are not paid less than US citizens or permanent residents. INS has strict rules about the minimum salaries paid to H1B employees. Believe me they make more than most of us not H1B guys."

This is simply false. You can believe what you want to believe. There is a lot of cheating on the INS rules. And, if an H-1B worker is making more than you, the corresponding American worker who would have had his job would have been making even more than that.
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Unfortunately statistics are on my side of the argument regarding the numbers. ?would have had..? is wishful thinking and does not go with economics. What you are asking for is protectionism. More like what a protected former USSR market was, or what asian countries like India were before they opened up their economies.
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"They are usually cheaper in the first year of 2 of coming to the USA. These guys have many years of exp but come here and work on programmer level positions for the miniumum or near min that INS specifies."

That was my point. These are the guys that lower all wages by decreasing the upward pressure on wages that is caused by supply vs. demand. When the supply of cheap workers is inserted into the job market by the government, it lowers the price. This is Economics 101. To understand this, deport all 500,000 H-1B workers from the USA today. What would happen to pay rates tomorrow? I cannot make this point any clearer than that.
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The rise in wages for these H1Bs are phenomenal and more than compensate the first 6 months of what you say are lower wages. I started at 56K, 6 months later 71K, 12 months - 85K, 18 Months - 99K. What low wages are you talking about? I know many H1B workers ? all of them have similar rise in wages.
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Obviously, pay rates will vary for the hundreds of thousands of H-1Bs now living and working in the USA. There isn't a single rate. But, by law, the specified minimum rate is just $60K for people with a master's degree. That is way too low and far below what the prevailing wage for such talent used to be.
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I don?t know what prevailing ware you are talking about or imagining. Department of labor has the numbers for each job classification. You may do well to check them. A classmate of mine had a PHd from CMU and a permanent resident of the USA and then a citizen. And he worked for Dupont for years making 40K even after working many years.
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It never ceases to amaze me that U.S. lawmakers who promote "free trade" and "market-based economies" choose to interfere with the market whenever things do not break on the side of U.S. corporations. Labor too expensive? Do a "free trade" agreement with a foreign country that enables work to go offshore. And, pass a law that allows cheap foreign workers to legally work INSIDE the USA and call it "jobs Americans won't do". Problem solved.
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Unfortunately it is true in many jobs ? recent problems in farm labor and Mexican labor ? illegal, yes, but they make more than min wage and there are no US citizens willing to do the job even though the farmer is willing to pay more. (his quote ?how many US workers would want a job that requires waking at 3 AM to milk the cows). While I don?t support illegal immigration, I do want my milk to be $3 a gallon and not $10.
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"But of these 48 may be working in India. And there they get paid maybe 10/Hr. But the 2 who are on site get paid 50-60 per hour or a salary like 75-100K. These 2 are usually team leads or project managers."

Technical managers and senior engineers always make a lot more. American technical managers and senior engineers running/leading a team of 48 engineers would typically make a lot more than $75K or $100K. And, what about those 48 American jobs that are now making $10/hour in India? Both of these are the whole point of my post. Your post is supporting my position. Thanks.
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The numbers are just an example. I am open to valid and logical, scientific arguments.
48 jobs were sent to India at $25 an hour. The worker may make $10 an hour but the cost to the American company is $25/Hr. Companies/corporations are not here to give you a job so that you can afford the life of a king. The last time I read something about corporations was that they are there to make money/profit. Economics?
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So, let's summarize. We have two pseudo-Americans making $75K-$100K that should be making $150K. And, we have 48 unemployed Americans. Check.
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Both hypothetical. 150 is a dreamers number and 48 americans were not available (I agree that the downturn in economy may have made 24 available)

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"They do compete with us for the same jobs"

No, they don't. Once a company has been allocated an H-1B visa, it will hire an H-1B visa worker for that job. There is never an interview process where Americans and H-1B visa holders both apply for the same job and the company makes their choice.
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That is not correct. You need to study the H1B program process and rules. The position has to be advertised (and advertised well) publicly. If US citizens respond and have the qualifications, they MUST be interviewed and the position must be filled using such candidates. Extensice documentation is required of the interview process. If a candidate is rejected the reasons are to be documented and made available to INS if the INS wishes to verify that the company did try to fill with local candidates. There is a period typically months, when no suitable candidate is found, only then can the company hire or attempt to hire an H1B candidate.
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"And I appreciate their dedication to the job and their careers."

I do also. That is not the point.
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Really? I have seen US citizens leave work at 5.00 PM because his son has a football game even though project deadlines are looming. And they do it because it is their right. (is it?) You think a for-profit company would want to pay 150K for such employees?

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What I really appreciate is the same dedication of the American engineer who has the $500,000 mortgage on an average home in the Silicon Valley, and the wife and children. Or, should I say HAD THE $500,000 MORTGAGE??
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Yes... HAD... Come down to earth. Millions all over the world don?t have 2 meals a day. No, this is not an argument to support my point. But could not resist this. Sorry.

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