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Music Piracy

By c_ingliang ·
Nowadays, music piracy is a common issue. However, only leading countries like America and UK have the sufficient laws to curb the menace of music piracy. In order for Malaysia to attract more foreign artist, what should Malaysia do in terms to the existing laws and what other steps need to be taken?

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text books

by maecuff In reply to Books?

My stepdaughter and her friends at college either swap books or post ads for their used books, they can get 4X as much by selling their books themselves rather than back to the bookstore. (Who resells them for just under the brand new price).

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by jkaras In reply to A couple of points

I tend to agree that what is put out there today isnt the quality but more hype to make a buck, "selling the dream". It doesnt make me loose any sleep that rich people who are used to using loopholes to make themselves more richer off of others hard work are suffering from the same double edged sword. Irony has a sense of humor afterall. The idea of servers located in third world countries that have next to nothing court system preventing lawsuits to me is as good as it is bad. Its intent is to break the law thru circumventing rather than right vs.wrong to make a change, but then again those who are in power never wield that right with any responsibility, only personal greed, so we reap what we sow.

Looking at everyone's postings I see people listing cd sales in the twenties? Where are you going? Granted most cd sales are between $13-18 for single cds and $21-26 on select double cds but whoa thats rediculous. I agree also that I dont frequent the movie house due to excessive ticket sales and outrageous prices for treats at the movies. To me a combination of the cell phone armies and the price for treats have ruined the movie experience for most that it is too much of a hassle. What gets me is that everyone has a horrible experience story of a movie where people have cells blowing up during the movie yet there is always quite a few ruining it for everyone? How is that possible? Never mind, retorical question. I love movies and love the communal experience when watching them with the reactions that make it more enhanced, I just dont like how everyone's attitude has changed that their money entitles them to conduct themselves in whatever manner, maybe its because everyone been taught that money buys entitlement not responsibility.

I definetly agree that I prefer reading a hardcover vs. paperback simply for the ease of reading text and keeping the book open leisurely for comfort. I tend to only read on going series rather than a one shot jonny book. They tend to be better written, but can get to conveluted for padding to increase the story for more book sales. I hate the wait for what happened next so no I dont wait for the paperback, its bad enough the 1-2 year wait.

What really does get me is established singers/groups charging a rediculous amount for live performances. To me a ticket should not cost more than $35 dollars, hearing charges of $60-500 is absolute sickening. AS well as seeing the concert t-shirt starting at $30, I think $18-20 is fair markup for profit. If I pay high prices for tickets, either they should be for backstage or front row seating, that I can understand due to more privledges and if I feel the need to do something special then ok, but hearing Barbra Stiesand, Sting, Bruce, Prince and the were really calling it quits this time Rolling Stones charging a butt load for a medicore performance is just wrong and I hope their tours flop.

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Concert ticket prices

by DC_GUY In reply to yeah

Sorry to point this out, but this is simply a classic case of supply and demand. If one of the top acts like Linkin Park or No Doubt plays a stadium with a capacity of 100,000, and 500,000 people would like to attend, economics will prevail. Ticket prices will rise to the point that only 100,000 people want to see the group badly enough to pay that price.

You've got two choices. Either the tickets go on sale with a face value of, say $200. Admittedly a lot of that will go to executives and advertisers who don't add a lot of value to the product, but still much of it will filter down to the artists and the road crew and the people who actually make the music.

Or else the tickets sell at the box office for $50. A bunch of jobless teenagers camp out all night and buy the maximum (4, 6, or tickets each, then run to the nearest resale agency and sell all but the two they need for $100. Then you and I who have jobs that prevent us from camping out but also pay us enough money that we can afford $200 tickets buy them from the agency. The agency makes $100 per ticket, the teenagers get to see the concert for free or even make money on the deal, and the artists only get paid the same as Bad Company or whichever Retired Hippie Band Nostalgia Tour is currently on the road.

Take your choice. I'd prefer seeing the money go to the artists who actually produce the music that I'm paying for. Although I do wish the standard music contract would put the truly lavish profits into a trust fund so they'd still have money to live on when they sober up.

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yes and no

by jkaras In reply to Concert ticket prices

Yes, due to demand people will spend money believing that their money will be well worth it. In reality this or that performer isnt giving the customer a better show that is more extravagant, merely hiking their price for their greed and ego. Its not the producers that are causing the hike, its the performer or how they like to be called "artist" wanting a bigger cut and the producers not willing to take a smaller share. i feel for the performer getting the shaft in the business but they are still not hurting financially that they cant survive. It is a slap in the face to the fan who desires to enjoy the talents of the performer who buys the cds, shirts, and tickets, including tuning into shows that they get interviewed. There is plenty of profit throught the industry and there are multiple levels of distributing the wealth accumulated during the concerts that wouldnt impact the consumer. And its not the ticket scalpers, these are the advertised price that anyone can get if they attempt to buy a ticket.

Pearl Jam sells out every venue despite lacking cd sales for $35 and they are not hurting for money last time I checked. I could name a bunch of top artists that still charge fair amounts for thier performances and I dont see them hawking products to put a roof over their heads, so no I dont have any simpathy for the "elite artists". I remember Babs doing a concert that was pay-per-view and tickets that ran into the thousands of a ticket and she sang for less than 45 minutes claiming vocal strain. I sure dont remember her giving any money back for not making good on her performance. You can blame record execs for many things, but high prices like these are not their fault.

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You don't seem to understand what "supply and demand" means

by DC_GUY In reply to yes and no

Those Pearl Jam tickets were selling at the box office for $35 but a very small percentage of those tickets went straight from the box office to the concert. We paid $100 each for ours. (Seven years ago.)

The promoters do a good job of filling the seats closest to the stage with young fans who will pogo and scream and throw things on the stage tirelessly all night, because the band needs that energy feedback. Those are comp tickets and people get them by winning radio contests and other activities that demonstrate their dedication to the band.

And certainly every one of those 2,000 teenagers who camped out and made it to the ticket window before it sold out actually attended the concert after selling their six extra tickets to an agency. So they are peppered throughout the arena, inspiring the rest of the crowd to be active.

But all the musicians and promoters admit that the majority of the audience at a really popular show are people like my wife and me, young enough at heart to still love the music, good enough jobs to pay three-digit prices for tickets, but too old to jump and scream all night.

Pearl Jam has a smaller, older audience than it did in 1997, so perhaps they're the wrong example here. But this certainly holds for Evanescence or John Mayer.

The ticket prices WILL be determined by supply and demand. All the concert management can control is how much of that money goes into the pockets of the resellers.

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D.C. Guy apples and oranges

by jkaras In reply to yes and no

I understand your points of supply and demand as well as your issue with scalpers, I can comprehend basic economy. My point/argument is concerning the "ORIGINAL TICKET PRICE" not resale hikes or fan compliment. Some groups charge realistically offering a great show regardless of demographics or money projections but a commitment to the fan enjoying the celebration of music, some just plain overcharge giving less than a complete show. Regardless of supply and demand for the performance the performer or artist grossly overcharges for greed, not offering the consumer more for their buck, merely paying for the "PRIVLEDGE OF BASKING IN THEIR GLORY". Are there more lighting, longer shows, more musicians, better venues, increased security, better equipment, cheaper items for memoriablia? ANswer no, the only thing more of is price hence demand for those willing to pay, but its not right which is my point. I love concerts and have seen just about everything, I dont mind paying for quality, but what they are giving is far from what other acts can do for less. Tickets should be affordable to accomodate the multitude of fans who, while there spend ample amounts of money in consessions where everyone is happy and making money. What I am complaining about is the rediculous hike in ticket prices that the performer deems is worthy to satisfy both his/her ego and bank account not the consumer. If they dont want to perform anymore, retire and only make cds, not touring. People spend lots of money to be entertained not for the ability to witness the so called greatness. If I feel the need to buy front row or backstage then I will spend that money cause I feel its worth it to experience what others are not privy to, thats fair, not paying a couple hundred to say I was there not able to make out the faces of the group being some where in the boon docks with binocculars. DO the math on 30,000 fans @35 compared to 30,000 at $80 or $300, do you feel screwed at the end of that tally? AS for the Pearl Jam example they played here in Orlando not more than last year at the House of Blues and they didnt charge over $35 bucks at that venue nor the other dates throught the nation and they sold out and gave the fans every bit of enjoyment for their dollar.

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Re: Scalpers, Concert Prices, and other stuff

by maxwell edison In reply to yes and no

I think that any one of us, if we were in such a position, would charge the optimal amount of money for personal appearances. Whether we were musicians, speakers, or whatever, if we could fetch a $200 ticket price versus a $20 price, and still fill the venue, we would. Ask yourself a question, and be honest. If you were an "industry expert" speaker, and you could give a talk to a large audience, and either be paid $500, $5,000, or $50,000, and the ticket prices were set accordingly, which would you choose? Heck, I'd choose the 50 grand, and so would most, if not all people. Some concerts are relatively inexpensive, some are even free (but someone even pays for the "free" ones), while some cost the big bucks. Fleetwood Mac and the Rolling Stones come to mind. I paid for a cheap ticket to see both of those groups in the 70s, but I sure won't pay the big bucks to see them today. So hey, people don't have to go if they feel the price is too high. The same applies to sporting events. If we get "priced out" of an event, whether it be by choice or circumstances, that's life.

Probably the best way to reconcile such things is to start with the desired amount of money we want to spend every month on such things, an "entertainment budget, so to speak. If we budget $50 a month, for example, just like we budget our house payment, auto insurance, and so on, going or not going to any particular event may be easier to justify. If you want to go to one of those $200 concerts, just substitute that for the movies, the bowling nights, the night club nights, or whatever. If the entertainment dollar that you spend is always the same, it then cones down to a choice between entertainment options.

As far as the teenagers who spend hours upon hours standing in line to buy up the tickets so they can make a profit, I say go for it. It's sure better than selling drugs or sponging off others. Moreover, if I had to give up 4 hours of salary to buy the tickets myself, it would be a better financial decision to pay them for their time instead. Why give up more salary than you'd save in the price of the ticket? (This concept applies to just about everything, by the way. Why spend an hour mowing the lawn if you could pay someone to do it for less than you can earn in an hour?)

As to the ticket brokers, I suppose I just consider event tickets a commodity, just like anything else. The difference is, in many cities, it's illegal to inflate the price of a ticket. This doesn't make sense to me, however, because it fails the consistency test. A coin dealer can sell a coin for more than face value; postage stamps can be sold for more than face value; and that metallic gray 1966 Chevelle Super Sport with a 375 horsepower 396 cubic inch engine sure sells for more than the original sticker price. What's the difference?

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Max, RE: scalpers

by TheChas In reply to yes and no


Coin and rare goods dealers are legitimate businesses and seldom "roll" their customers for extra money.

The ticket scalping business has long been associated with criminal activity.
In the days prior to box office camp-outs and internet sales, the scalpers often had an inside contact that set aside a block of tickets for them.

Then, like most things political in the US, follow the money.

Most concert venues are either publicly funded, or part of a quasi-governmental entity.
If they were allowed to control the sale and transfer of tickets at inflated prices, scalping would be a good thing.
Since that would be politically unpopular, the answer is to make all above face price ticket sales illegal.

Anti-scalping laws also give the police a tool to use to keep aggressive scalpers away from arena entrances.


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Chas - you make some good points.

by maxwell edison In reply to yes and no

(But you know me - I like some back and forth discussion).

You made a good point about the publicly funded venues. However, in most cases, the city that owns the facility simply rents out its use. They are rented to basketball, football, and hockey teams on a long-term basis, as well as concert promoters, usually considered a one-time shot. Heck, you or I could rent one of them for whatever function we might want to promote. We "pay the rent" for one day, and use the facility however we want. That's why you'll see the other events such as the circus, motivational seminars, business trade shows, Billy Graham (and other) religious events, Disney on Ice, monster truck shows, the Harlem Globetrotters (I took my son to see them just yesterday), Amway rallies, job fairs, education fairs, flea markets, the Antiques Road Show, and on and on. The city isn't in the promoting business, just the leasing business.

In the case of coins and stamps, it's not just the "rare" ones that fetch more than face value, and it's not just the dealers who benefit. Look on ebay and notice how many of the new State quarters are selling for double, triple, or even ten times face value. And if you take your "publicly funded" argument to its logical conclusion, then you might consider that the public paid for the minting of those quarters, so everyone should have equal access to them at equal prices. If you have a Michigan quarter in your hand, and I'm willing (or stupid enough) to pay you a dollar for it, who's business is it other than yours and mine? Simply substitute the quarter for a ticket, and the same reasoning applies.

You could be right in suggesting that, "In the days prior to box office camp-outs and internet sales, the scalpers often had an inside contact that set aside a block of tickets for them". That may be true. And the same argument could be made for most gambling enterprises. In 1950, for example, Las Vegas was owned by organized crime syndicates. But just like with ticket sales and scalping, that's just not the case anymore. Why should we create laws for today that apply to the problems of yesteryear? Gambling is a legitimate business in America today, just like the sales of tickets. (And if an "insider" is still doing that, it's he or she who should be punished.)

And speaking of the police and arresting scalpers. This reminds me of game 7 of the 1985 World Series between the Kansas City Royals and the Saint Louis Cardinals, which was played in Royals Stadium (now Kauffman Stadium) in Kansas City, Missouri. (The Royals won, by the way.) I was sitting with my brother in a couple of great box seats, about 20 rows behind the home team dugout. The two seats next to us were empty for about the first half of the game, which was a very curious thing indeed. Why would these tickets go unused, we wondered? At about the fifth inning, one guy finally sat in one of the seats. We asked him about his tardiness for such a great event, and why he was alone. It turns out that he was the police officer who earlier had arrested a guy for trying to scalp the tickets for those seats. (He didn't have the ticket, by the way, as he used his badge to get in and he knew the seat would be empty.) So the result was this. A person was arrested for trying to make a few bucks (maybe to feed his hungry children?????), a person who would have gladly paid a premium to see a great event was denied that opportunity, and the cop who ruined it for those two (or more) people got to reap the benefits.

I still say that supply and demand should control the price of any commodity, even tickets, as it's always a choice whether or not a person pays the going price.

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solution with a twist

by raghu In reply to Music Piracy

I am very sorry to say that, may be, US and UK have enough laws
for anti piracy, but even they lack the took to implement those

RIAA and IFPI are doing a fine job, buy they are conservative in
their approach and I dont see any long term benifits from there

Every coutry has a music society at a national level. This society
should get a technical backup and both put together should get
the required legal backup. The whole thing looks complex, and
it is.

And then you hire me to make complex things more complex
and then solve it.

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