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New Discussion Group - Rumour Mill

By Hockeyist ·
This is a great site with a lot of useful information and helpful peers - thanks.
How about a new group for those of us who have heard something in the wind regarding new IT related technology/business news and have an urge to let people know about it or to get more information/clarification. A Group such as Rumour Mill would do nicely.
Here's a couple of rumours to get the group started
1/.I heard, on the grapevine, that the IT industry unemployment rate (11%) in Australia is double the national unemployment rate (5.5%)". I wonder if it's the same ratio in other countries.
2/. Manufacturing companies within India are looking to outsource their IT to other countries due to poor performance.

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Well I thought about that

by Oz_Media In reply to Sydney NSW

I thought MAYBE it's NSW but then there IS a Sydney, NS. So I gave you the benfit of the doubt.

Oh well, not such a small world after all. :)

Mind if we just call you Bruce then, to avoid any further confusion?

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Just call me Bruce, ay

by Hockeyist In reply to Well I thought about that

Sounds like these Atlantic Canadians are held in high esteem in Canada.

Talking about Bruce...
...You know, I have never met a Bruce in my entire life...I suppose it's like certain brands of software, you know it's being used out there, but by who.

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I know

by Oz_Media In reply to Just call me Bruce, ay

As for Atlantic Canadians, Newfies (Newfoundlanders) are the brunt of all the typical racist jokes, kust like polak jokes. As people, they are some of the warmest and most accepting people I have ever met.

Maritimers are always joked about being backward or a little behind the rest, but as for attitude and community, I have yet to see them topped anywhere.

I have VERY fond memories of the great people I met on the East Coast and couldn't say a bad word if I tried.

As for Bruce, well you know how that goes. Everyone in England sips tea with a pinky pointing up. All Canadians love hockey and say 'EH' all the time. All Americans live in trailers and are classless. All Chinese people are called Wong. Just another generalization that is the brunt of all jokes.

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by The Admiral In reply to New Discussion Group - Ru ...

It is not a rumor. One news story stated that people who are attempting to go to Universities in Austrialia for Information Systems are being told that the programs are closed, and that others are available. This came out about a year ago.

Second, our outsource partner in India has outsourced to China, which is a growing trend since now they can no longer outsource in India cheaply (in other words, it ain't cheap no more there) so they are sending it to China.

Sooner or Later, America will be the cheapest provider of the services, so they will outsource it back to the US.

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The problem with Universities in Australia is...

by Hockeyist In reply to

...that they have accepted a very high percentage of full-fee paying students from overseas (predominately Asia) at the expense of local students who can't pay upfront. "Full-fee" is not really "full-fee", it's subsidized by the taxpayer.
In Australia we have a system where we can enrol in any undergraduate or postgraduate course and defer payment until we can afford to pay. Payment is made voluntarily or once a salary threshhold is past then 1% of salary is submitted with tax weekly or at the end of the year. So a complete degree or MBA programme can be completed and then repaid once employment commences.
The problem is shortsighted management of bottom line again.
Once the full-fee students return back to Asia we lose that training to overseas companies. All at the expense of our local citizens and local industry.

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by The Admiral In reply to The problem with Universi ...

The problem in the US is that grants and scholarships set aside for minorities are being won by people who are here, then taking the skills back to their perspective countries.

See the 9/11/2001 footage, and you see a long strain of engineers and other skills that were done here, then moved overseas.

So now, we have all the educational monies going into persons who will not assist the economy, and we don't even flash an eyeball as to why things are outsourced. The people who went and got educated took it. There is no other way of looking at the problem.

Now we have executives buying into that crap.

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It is the same in the U.S.

by a.techno.geek In reply to The problem with Universi ...

Most of the students going to school (I can only speak for the 2 year Community Colleges, I work at one) are foreigners, which if they are D.P. (Displaced People/Persons) get a free ride for school. In this case it is middle east peoples (I live in the Detroit Michigan Metro area, which has the highest percentage of anywhere in the U.S. of middle east people, now I guess it is the chinese) But the tax paying public has to pay for the same schooling out of their pockets. Now do you think that is fair? The quality for elementary, middle and high school has went way down. One of the bad things is that they don't teach critical thinking anymore. They no longer teach the 3 R's, read'in, writ'in and rithmetic same basic course of study through out the students schooling, now it is whatever feels good. Does our Representatives and Senate care, nope just the bottom line for companies. For me to get a work visa for Canada, a company would have to search all of Canada for a Canadian that can do the job, then and only then I might be able to work in Canada. Does the same thing apply here in the U.S. when it comes to Canadians (Windsor Ontario is our neighbor to the south of Detroit) working in the U.S.? Nope. Instead of the government making companies hiring taxpayers first, no just go a head and hire a non-taxpaying HB-1 visa holders, they are cheaper. When people here can no longer afford to buy what the companies are selling here (in the U.S, may be they will wake up and realize that people here have to work to buy). what happens then? I like the example of the doctor being laid off/fired and told that they are now outsourcing his job to India, Russia, china, where ever, were diagnosis is cheaper. And now surgical nurse's will preform surgery because they know the technique of surgery. How does that grab ya? People invest money into their education to get higher paying work, not to work for peanuts. If they do that, they might just as well have not finished their high schooling because, what the **** why do that, ya ain't gonna get anywhere anyways. Sad thing is that education has gotten so watered down, that to do what you used to be able to do with a High School diploma, now requires an Associates Degree, what required an Associates Degree, now requires a Bachelors Degree, What required a Bachelors now requires a Masters Degree, what required a Masters now requires a Doctorate Degree, where does it end? I agree with Slapshots peeve.

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where did you find the 11% figure

by david_heath In reply to New Discussion Group - Ru ...

Rob,

I'm interested in finding where you saw the 11% unemployment rate in IT. I googled frantically but coundn't find a connection.

I too am in Sydney and am part of the 11% !!

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Here 'tis...

by Hockeyist In reply to where did you find the 11 ...

Hi David,
IT in Sydney really suffered in the last 5 years. I didn't think it was as bad as I thought until I saw the figures. I caught up with IT people I hadn't seen in years and it wasn't unusual for them to have been out of work for 12 months (around 2001-2002). The U.S. economy is much larger and may take a while to show the same affects.
I found the information on the Unions NSW site. Here's an extract followed by the link.

10. From The Association of Professional Engineers, Scientists and Managers, Australia (NSW Branch): - advising Labor Council of the welcomed news that the Department of Immigration, Multicultural and Indigenous Affairs (DIMIA) had prohibited recruitment agents from placing temporary visa holders in employment contracts from 1st November 2003. The Union said DIMIA had given recruitment agents 90 days from 1st November 2003 to comply with the new visa regulations. The Union said enforcement of regulations concerning temporary visa holders would mean that recruiters would be forced to turn to Australian labour, a positive thing for Australian IT workers who were having difficulty finding work. The Union said a survey of IT professionals in early 2003 by the Australian Computer Society found an unemployment rate of 11.0 per cent, almost double the national unemployment rate. The Union said the enforcement of the regulations would mean an increase of 2000 more jobs for Australian IT workers from February 2004. Further, the Union said the enforcement of the regulations would also ensure that the abuses of temporary visas by recruitment agents, who pay these temporary visa holders sub-standard wages, would no longer occur. The Union said the IT Contractors and Recruiters Association were seeking a meeting with DIMIA to have its decision reversed. The Union requested Labor Council seek a meeting with DIMIA to convey support of its current position.
http://council.labor.net.au/minutes/9220031127.html

Also some info in the 8th paragraph here.
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/19/1082326135400.html?oneclick=true

This is an interesting read.
US tech workers help companies export their jobs
"Tata employees received $US12,000" annual salary- Working for peanuts...
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/02/06/1075854051433.html?from=storyrhs&oneclick=true

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Thanks...

by david_heath In reply to Here 'tis...

Rob,

thanks for the links. I'm trying to collect evidence of just how bad things are in Australia for IT - show yet more evidence that we're still the lucky country, not the clever country.

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