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Opinions requested by an antipodean

By jardinier ·
If it is not yet official, can we start with the assumption that Hillary will run with Obama. If they win government, how do you think this will affect America?

Incidentally the third (but far from insignificant) member of the COW will start withdrawing its troops from Iraq. I am not sure of the schedule but our PM Kevin Rudd has declared that they have done all they can do.

A Labor PM would never have sent Australian troops to Iraq in the first place.

Do you think a Democrat Government in the USA would have instigated the invasion?

Several questions, lots of opinions sought.

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Anti-Zionist does not equal anti-semetic

by JamesRL In reply to Have your brown shirts co ...

There are Jewish groups in Canada and the US who feel the same thing - are they anti-semitic?

James

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That's what all the anti-semites say

by Locrian_Lyric In reply to Anti-Zionist does not equ ...

And yes, there are some people of Jewish ancestry who are anti-semetic. One of them had a funny litlle mustache.

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Hitler as an anti-Semite

by john.a.wills In reply to That's what all the anti- ...

Hitler was a theoretical anti-Semite, and he (erroneously) thought that the Rabbinical Jews of Europe were Semites, and so poisonous to European culture. He and his cronies considered a number of ways of cleansing Europe of this alleged pest, including link-ups with the Zionists (who also, though for a different reason, wanted the Jews out of Europe); these link-ups (cf. Dawid Yisraeli: HaRaich haGermaniya veErezt-Yisrael) having failed in their intent, he decided on mass murder. Meanwhile, David Ben-Gurion, a practical anti-Semite, was preparing for the Nakba under Plans Aleph through Daleth (cf. Ilan Papp?: The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine).

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So many disputed facts.

by $$$$$$$$$$ In reply to Hitler as an anti-Semite

I have only a vague intuition of what you mean by "Zionists", "Rabbinical Jews" and "Nakba". I only learned the latter word around the 60th anniversary of the event that term describes. So for now, I can't say much except that I'm interested in the side of the story my TV & newspapers haven't been telling me, which you seem to be telling. The British government, or some interests within it, seem to have made some very cynical estimates after WW2, the effects of which are still having de-stabilizing effects on the region, and via petroleum, the entire world.

I've recently discovered that the death count is much more lopsided than I had believed. I knew that Israel's weapons were technologically more advanced, but "somehow" I'd gotten the impression that they were so rarely used that Israeli civilians died only slightly less frequently per annum than Palestinians. However, when searching for documentation of the facts, I find a vast disparity, which I've cited elsewhere.

I have not, in the past, agreed with much that you say, but I support your right to say it and on this topic I suspect you're mostly correct as well.

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Are you calling me anti semitic?

by JamesRL In reply to That's what all the anti- ...

I think you should apologize. Thats beyond the pale.

There are many religious practising Jews who are ant-zionist. Some actively support the palestinians, some just oppose the state of Isreal. Some are from the ultra Orthodox, others are very liberal.

They exist in America, Britain, many places.

As for Hitler, I don't know that its a proven fact, and I don't think it matters. I was not refering to him, I was referring to obersevent, religious Jews who oppose the state of Isreal.

Of course there are many more Jews who are not Anti-zionist, but who oppose the policies of the government of Isreal, towards the paelstinians.

But is there only black and white in your world?

James

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James, I don't mince words. If I thought you were, I'd say it directly.

by Locrian_Lyric In reply to Are you calling me anti s ...

What I am saying is that the term "Zionist" is often used by those who hate jews (including self-hating Jews) who want to mask their anti-Jewish sentiment.

Other than a few blatant neonazi groups, and groups like the nation of islam, very few people will come right out with their hatred.

the term "Zionist" is a prejorative term, it is anti-jewish and used by anti-jewish groups to say "We don't hate jews, we just hate zionists".

Then ask them how they define 'zionist'.

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personally

by jck In reply to James, I don't mince word ...

i prefer minced garlic

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Zionists as a term

by JamesRL In reply to James, I don't mince word ...

In modern usage it may be most often used as a pejorative, but it certainly was NOT 100 years ago.

Many Jews 100 years ago were Zionists, as were many English Protestents who were supporting the movement to creating an Isreal, as early as the 1830s.

As for the anti-zionist Jews, thats pretty judgemental of you. Some Orthodox Jews believe that the Messiah must appear before Isreal can really come again, so they are "anti-zionist" against the current state of Israel.

There were also communist/socialist Jews who opposed the creation of the state of Israel(as well as pro Zionist Marxists).

James

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garlic...

by boxfiddler Moderator In reply to James, I don't mince word ...

I like it roasted with a touch of red wine vinegar, myself.

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mmmm...garlic

by jck In reply to James, I don't mince word ...

well...that sounds good...i like it on steak or salad or pizza or a huge mound of spaghetti... *drools*

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