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Outsourcing and Racism

By injun_cowboy ·
I think the current IT outsourcing howl has to do with a form of racism. Yes, that's what it it. Tell you why. 'Cos it's jobs going to places like India, Mexico & China. No one cried foul when techie jobs went to the factories set up in Good Ol' Ireland, or Poland, or Germany or Holland or England. No sir! Those guys are OK. C'mon folks, you know it!

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Let's not dwell on product

by Orpheum In reply to Greed - Not just for corp ...

We've missed the boat on product manufacturing - agreed. Why does it matter if a retail end user buys hardware based on price, quality or country of origion? Whatever the answer, the US laborer is not assembling said hardware! Or very little of it if any.

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Point is - it's 'Legal'

by Orpheum In reply to No Racism - Just Greed!

Is it a good idea to continue enabling the suicide of our labor force? Should this level of corporate sweat shop abuse continue to remain legal?? When will America draw a 'line in the sand'?

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Frustration in Flying Round the World

by proxcauseny In reply to Outsourcing and Racism

Frustration in Flying Round the World
Our office is actively searching for effective US based customer support in determining our selections for new purchases. Telephone tag around the world does not work. I would greatly appreciate TR's post of suppliers that provide service from employees that are located here in the US. I challenge fellow IP professional to find upper tier support from these far flung outsourced locations, and can understand or make themselves understood by primary tier support staffers in India, The Phillipines or Korea. Outsourcing to these locatiions rips off the IP consumer!!!!!

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I don't agree

by nean_72 In reply to Outsourcing and Racism

Personally my anger isn't directed towards either the people receiving the offshore IT jobs (people from India, China, etc.) and it isn't directed towards the companies with the offshore contracts. As far as the people are concerned in similiar circumstances I would do the same thing. As far as the companies are concerned if they are able to cut their IT expenditures significantly then it is a wise business decision. In business in order to stay ahead of the competition you take every advantage you can.
What I don't understand is why isn't the US government doing anything about it? It is obvious that a US worker cannot compete with a similiarly skilled worker from a third world nation because their cost of living is a fraction of what the US worker's is. This happened throughout manufacuring and now it is happening in IT. We have to be the only country to actively promote domestic jobs going overseas. All other countries seem to set up some form of protection for domestic jobs except for the US.
And I could care less where the IT jobs are going, I simply don't like the fact that they are leaving our country and going some where else.

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by Oz_Media In reply to I don't agree

A much as I agree with your statements about companies needing to control costs with outsourcing, you also said:

"What I don't understand is why isn't the US government doing anything about it? It is obvious that a US worker cannot compete with a similiarly skilled worker from a third world nation because their cost of living is a fraction of what the US worker's is"

US companies outsource to Canada too, how does this apply to a Canadian with a much higher cost of living ? Especially when we generally earn much more than our US neighbours?

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First takem - without predjudice

by Oz_Media In reply to Outsourcing and Racism

Without readin opinions above and generating a personal bias, I will just add some surface thoughts and person al experience.

First of all, England is one such country that is also suffering from outsourcing to India, to say your jobs are going to the UK is incorrect, I think, unless the UK firms are then subcontracting to India of course.

Having lived in Vancouver so long, I have learned that even though I hold a personal bias against the way some races treat thier new home I need to accept racial differences, there are very few ACTUAL Canadians (Native indians) in this picture and we are ALL immigrants ourselves. Whether born here or not, we are not the founders of this land, we simply occupy it.

That aside, I have always been open to outsourcing, I don't work in a help desk related position, which is where I see MOST outsourcing.

I recently had a NIGHTMARE 5.5 hour phone call to SMC tech support. Reps were EXREMELY polite, they tried VERY hard to be helpful. They just didn't understand that exch new rep I was passed to was going over the exact same steps as the last. When I hit the 5 hour mark, I was practically BEGGING for a senior engineer, as opposed to the nest telemarketer who simply started reding the same steps everyone else had.

I finally got a senior engineer, he understood my issue immediately and as peredicted over 5 hours before, my router was DOA and I need an RMA.

The day before, I had done all the steps as read out by the help desk people, the conversation ended with a tech saying, if you add this patch and it doesn't work, call us back ad we'll issue an RMA. This will explain my frustration when that callback to obtain the R<A turned into 5 hours with level one help desk techs who simple would not let me talk to someone else, until I finally tore a strip out of some guy and got a senior engineer.

I was VERY patient (5 hours!) and explained clearly that I had already been walked through all the steps and was simply callng back as requested to obtian an RMA. reps were very polite and kept apologizing, then starting with stpe 1A and working through it all again. I don't want you to apologize, I want you to listen and understand me.

I had never considered a language barrier before, but in this case it was horrendous.

In closing, I haev NO problem racially with outsourcing ANYWHERE. The problem BECOMES racial when I say there is a language barrier though. Like it or not it is true, not racial bias.

When I called the California office with my RMA, it took a whole 3 minutes to arrange the return via them sending a replacement router with a prepaid shipping slip to return the defective unit (at first they wanted me to send them the dead one and wait for a new one) NOT! but it only took a minute or two for them to see I wanted a new one with a prepaid invoice to return the old one.

So my personal experience in this particular case, changed my mind about outsourcing. In many cases, this may work, but for a technical help desk the language barrier needs to be removed.

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Outsourcing is costing no matter where the jobs go

by EndorphineJunkie In reply to Outsourcing and Racism

Racism is a sad reality of human nature, at least to some. The problem with outsourcing is that it should have been stopped or flags raised long ago. Now these big corporations are sending the jobs overseas because labor is cheaper and they don't have the overhead costs in benefits that they do here. It stinks agree wholeheartedly as I'm a techie that's been out of work for almost 2 years with no job in sight and no way to pay bills even with a BS and a MS on the way...

Big corporations found a way to cut there budgets in areas that would increase their revenue and they're going to do it regardless of what it does to this country's IT industry.

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Passive question

by Oz_Media In reply to Outsourcing is costing no ...

I don't want to imply anything but can I ask HOW you've been out of work for 2 years with ANY qualifications at all?

Do you mean you have been unemployed or simply can't find IT work.

Are you finding that you are overqualified when applying or is it that you don't see many jobs advertised etc.?

May I ask what state you live in?

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Accents, Wages Threaten India's Gains on Outsourcing

by Oz_Media In reply to Outsourcing and Racism

With the US showing an average wage increase of 3% last year and India's showing a growth of over 22% things are getting tougher everywhere.

Here's a recent article that addresses the same issue I've had with Indian outsourcing. Polite but not understood.

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What a bunch of whiners!

by bwallan In reply to Outsourcing and Racism

We've used "off-shore" techies (being in Canada, I am an "off-shore" techie to you guys/gals). We've used "home-grown" techies. The difference between the two boils down to "cost" and control.

Our experience with "off-shore" techies has not been great. Language comprehension and culture have caused problems. Differences in contract law have caused problems. Time zones have caused problems. Lack of being able to meet with the people doing the work and not being able to review problems face-to-face has caused problems. Yes, the code cost us less but we also received far less in true value. We could have accomplished the same thing with home-grown techies for the same real cost!

Also, quality "off-shore" techies are becoming increasingly expensive. I rapidly foresee the time when home-grown techies (even US techies) will once again be in demand. They sure are in Canada. Anyone with a University Computer Science degree has NO problems finding excellent employment! Sure, there are losers in every profession and people that just don't want to work for a living. But if you're willing to look at IT employment as a "career" and not simply a "job", I can see no reason why a qualified IT professional would be unemployed (anywhere)!?

If worse comes to worse, join the "off-shore" work force OR, better yet, set up a firm to manage off-shore resources for US based companies. You can then have it both ways!

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