General discussion


Oz - aka Linux Guru

By secure_lockdown ·
Oz - in all honesty, do you really see Linux taking off to the same extent as what the actual Linux vendors (Novell, IBM, and Co.) are predicting/hoping?

If you are, can you post reasons and proof as to why you see that will happen?

I origianlly got sold on Linux thing when Novell were agressively pushing it a year ago - I was planning on getting all the LPI certs and the CLP and focus on their new product lines. But have since changed my mind because I am not seeing in the "real world" what the vendors are hypeing.


Let the discussions begin,

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You nailed it !

by Oz_Media In reply to Not So

While you questioned a paragraph that was clearly explained later in the article, you have proven yourself much wiser than Linux admins.

It must be true that as you imply, Linux admins are simply clueless sand have blinders on, whereas MS admins are the open minded and flexible workers who see new products for what they really are. That's why MS is the best solution.

Novell engineers don't even come into the picture.

You didn't misread the article, everyone else did. You just decided to point out the disclaimer regardless that the point you were making was invalid, maybe because you wanted to add some keystrokes to your day.

Now if only I had taken my MCSE and not the MCNE exam, I too would know better!

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OZ & the hammer

by dafe2 In reply to Not So

That's all I was trying to say :-)

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The 'Hamer' LOL

by Oz_Media In reply to Not So

I have a friend staying with me for a bit that plays guitar in a band I promote in Europe.

He saw your title over my shoulder and said HEY, I THOUGH YOU PULLED THAT PICTURE!!

I used to have a picture of him (the real OZ) playing a solo on his HAMER (guitar) on a website. The problem was there was another musician in the background, unnoticed, that we hadn't been given press clearance from so I pulled it of fhis site, and then requested it from several fan sites that also scooped it up, THAT was a hassle!

So when Oz saw your title, he thought I was sharing a picture of him with his HAMER ! LOL

Now you know why I am so careful about names and bands here, they are the worst bunch of prima donna's you could ever have the horror of managing. But real fun bunch all the same!

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by house In reply to Not So

This so called 'oz' isn't involved in that Warjunk band, is he? After giving them a second chance... I like it. I was thrown off by some of the "opera" vocals at first. I realized though, that it is not really progressive metal. It sounded like that crap at first.

For some strange reason, I started with a strat body, and now I feel really uncomfortable handling any other models/shapes. I guess that everyone has their favourites. What model of Hamer is it?

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by Oz_Media In reply to Not So

No, Oz lives in St. Albans, UK, nice countryside just outside London.

Warjunk is a Vancouver band, they were interested in me finding them a deal in Europe but a couple of the guys are preety settled, women and children, in Vancouver so they didn't want to relocate. But they are a happy local bar band, a few BC, Washington tours etc.

They really are a cool band to see live, I think they have some clips on their site.

Graham (the vocalist), works as a bartender at a Pub/Hotel I frequent and stay at when in Vancouver, just a big circle of friends helping out friends. A friend/copywriter hangs out there, mining and exploration guys etc., so it's convenient for business and booze. They pour one **** of a pint of Gunness or Boddingtons too!

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Dave re Millions

by dafe2 In reply to Then Microsoft is still g ...

"Transition to XP or even Longhorn on the desktop is going to cost any organization major blowout on hardware upgrades alone."


Not. Most businesses today refresh hardware every two or three years max. XP or 2K license costs are inconsequential & so is the desktop software. What does matter is the user trainning and comfort. His or her PRODUCTIVITY or TRAINNING is where the money is at.

On the desktop - Linux die-hards, like yourself for instance, can't see that a migration to Linux would kill user productivity. That's just for starters.

You'd have us believe that migrating 200 - 4000 users to a Linux desktop is good IT business.

I think your full of FUD - Friggin Unbelievable Denial.

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by secure_lockdown In reply to Dave re Millions

i wear multiple IT hats in my job - as do all other IT guys these days. there is no fuggin' way i could get anything done if i have 500 users calling me at the same time asking for help with this or that.

as i always say to the linux advocates out there - i will make you a deal. you can come over and convert 100 of my users. all the converted users get one phone # to call, and you get to sit at that phone and answer the calls all day long. you won't have time to take a bathroom break!!! let alone work on re-compiling your linux kernel. ;-)

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Rebuttal but bemused by the pro failed business model attitude

by Paul110 In reply to Dave re Millions

"Transition to XP or even Longhorn on the desktop is going to cost any organization major blowout on hardware upgrades alone."
Correct - I have had to replace several machines which were using 98 very happly.
Not. Most businesses today refresh hardware every two or three years max. XP or 2K license costs are inconsequential & so is the desktop software. What does matter is the user trainning and comfort. His or her PRODUCTIVITY or TRAINNING is where the money is at.
No we run a very tight ship - IT spend is not on period!

There is a mention of productivity, what exactly do you mean?
Our staff are trained to do the jobs the way we need them done, the software they use is easy to use. They know enough to do whatever it is that they need to do or we train them so they can do it.

It is just a symptom of a problem with sales when lines are trotted out to justify me increasing my existing hardware and software. What I have works.

Use what you have effectively sweat the assets and keep sweating them until the accountant says they have paid for them selves. Do not upgrade just because some mega company wants you to.

It takes me less time to download a Debian desktop system than it does to install Win2k on a desktop! Then I have to patch the two systems.
So I walk away from the Debian one and play with Ubuntu - it also just works.

If it was not for some of the work we do where we have to have Microsoft products, it is a customer requirement.
To both sides of the divide:
Remember your customer loves you! Just some love is conditional on the software actually performing and not requiring 20 addtional packages with there hidden costs - office, AV, anti spyware, compression programs, crm, all the stuff that I can stick on Debian for no cost - and guess what it just works.

Compare like with like and then tell you you can make my day better.

I found this url and think that it says there is a lot of linux out there, from what I can see at least one version will solve most of my IT problems.

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Paul110 ....... De-Bemused

by dafe2 In reply to Dave re Millions

Once again, I said that Linux has a home in some cases.

However, you can't tell me that you'd deploy Linux in a Corporation with 200 - 5000 nodes.
These places usually run SAP, Peoplesoft, Primavera, Cognos & others.

I can deploy a completely secure Windows XP desktop using RIS in 20Min flat. The user is in business within 30 minutes.

There is no sane corporation that would deploy Linux on the desktop or in the server room. The general user would not accept it. Simple as that.

Productivity from your users comes from familiarity with MS products. Productivity from OPS support staff (Techs) is the same.

All I'm saying is there's no sane argument to be made to implement Linux in an Enterprise Network, unless some MAJOR software vendors in that sandbox buy into it. That's not gonna happen anytime soon.

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Wow - Great point

by house In reply to Dave re Millions

That was the first MS argument that I fully understood without "if", "ands", & "buts".

"a migration to Linux would kill user productivity".

In a workstation operating system, I agree 100%. There is quite a learning curve involved, and you CANNOT expect users to take kindly to the change. Everybody (non-IT folks) runs a Windows OS at home. There are exceptions of course, but you can't deny the fact that the numbers are bordering on a perfect batting average, and have been for years.

In the server room, do whatever works. I'm not familiar enough with NOS outisde of MS to give a proper opinion on the subject.

You're right too that most active IT infrastructures, have a turn-over/lifecycle rate of 3 to 5 years when it comes to hardware.

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