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PICTURES OF IRAQ. (Warning: Not for Anti-Amercans or Anti war supporters)

By Garion11 ·
Pictures that the media doesn't show you. The REAL stories of Iraq.

http://www.rock103.com/warpics/

Please copy and paste this link and feel free to comment. Thanks :).

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Server my 365 and a wake-up in Vietnam

by JimHM In reply to Jim if you have really "W ...

How about you ?

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Great then you should be able to explain

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to Server my 365 and a wake- ...

Exactly it is an abuse of our troops to place them in a position like this!

With something like 20 - 30 years to think on your service in Nam you should by now know exactly how it is that any military unit can not function without specific goals and with limited weapons available. After all you where there and have first hand knowledge of exactly what went wrong don't you? Perhaps you can explain exactly it is nothing short of scandalous the way our troops are thought to be able to function and under the type of circumstances where there is no set enemy, no land to be captured and continually fighting a rear guard action to keep their backs clear.

There is a common misconception that the military can fix anything which they clearly can not as they are not trained for a lot of the things that they are expected to perform. You can also attempt to explain exactly why it is an impossible position to be in where you do not have a clear cut enemy and exactly how the current military are not any kind of Police Force as that isn't what they where started for or trained for either.

What is currently happening in Iraq is this exact position and while there is no doubt that the majority of our troops are trying their best they are in an impossible position as anyone who even looks sideways that them is a potential enemy.

Perhaps you could attempt to explain just how frustrating this type of situation actually is. After all you do have first hand experience and who is better qualified to tell it the way it is?

Col

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The Nam was different but -

by JimHM In reply to Great then you should be ...

First ? I will not disagree with you that after WWII the rules and role of the Military has changed from a fighting force to add Police force, Political enforcement, and many other things that during Nam we were not ready or trained for. But over the years the offices have been trained, and are doing the best they can.

But; I will assume you never server in the US Military (please correct me if I am wrong) ? but even back during Vietnam, every solider had a moral and military responsibility to disobey an unlawful order. IE ? Fire at civilians or non-combatants, touch villages and homes in Zippo raids, or other things and report those to the upper military power. Now, if anything happened that was the superior officers problem. You reported it, and started it up the chain of command. If these events occurred it is not only the responsibility of the commanding officer of that platoon or command, but of each individual officers and enlisted man that failed to stop or report said abuses. There is no passing the Buck from the front line ? they are responsible from the lowest to the squad, platoon officers.

That was drilled into each service man (at least in the Navy) that went through boot camp and OCS. ?Unlawful orders did not need to be obeyed, and you must report them to command.? ? of course you would still be hauled up to a captains mass to explain, why you refused to carry out that order. So it is how big is your integrity?

Kerry integrity isn?t very high ? he did Zippo raids ? he fired at civilians and non-combatants. (Had to toss that in)

So yes some things have changed from the Nam ? but it appears that some of our military (these 7) are trying to save their *** buy pointing fingers. Wrong ? they were responsible to report those events and not follow any orders that were unlawful.

Understand ? there are over 100,000 troops and these are but 7 ? Kerry and his guys in the Nam, did the same thing and now he blames his superiors ? Kerry was the leader ? he was responsible to report and not obey the unlawful order ?

KERRY IS A DISGRACE TO THE US NAVY ? HE IS A COWARD WITH OUT HONOR WITHOUT CODE ?

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While I totally agree with your sediments

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to The Nam was different but ...

It is an unfortunate fact that it only takes one rotten apple to spoil the whole bunch and make life tougher for everyone else.

Now in Iraq there is a fairly strong "Anti American" mentality being adopted more and more by the moderate Muslims that the actions of a few make it all that much harder for the majority of the rest of the troops involved. Also with their "Strict Islamic Laws" what is seen by us as justifiable punishment is seem by people over there as nothing more than a slap on the wrist.

Remember they still chop off peoples hands for stealing and there where public hangings for more severe crimes. Also there is still the mentality of "Honor Killings of unmarried females if it is thought that they are no longer virgins" this most often happens by members of their own family to save face so while or punishments might seem tough to us they are a walk in the park for people over there.

Anyway what I was trying to get across was that what is currently happening in Iraq is somewhat similar to Nam where there are no uniformed enemy and there remains the possibility of attack from all quarters so everyone is a bit on edge all the time. Honestly its probably worse than in Nam as there are no real enemy but only citizens of Iraq and the insurgents to confront who are only as successful as they are by mingling in with the crowd and attacking when an opportunity presents itself then just disappearing back into the crowd again. This is an almost impossible position to face as you are no doubt well aware of.

Actually all I ever wanted you to point out was just what difficulties where being faced by the troops stationed over there. I in no way support what the other side is doing in any of their attacks on the troops let alone on civilians who they see as easy targets. But the longer that they can keep the necessary infrastructure in some form of Chaos the more likely it is that they will get more and more followers to support their cause so it is effectively a "War of Attrition" where the other side has no concept of the value of human life and are willing to throw masses of people to their deaths to achieve their own ends.

The COW on the other hand wants to save lives and values human life so they have a problem right from the start so honestly they can ill afford any scandal that can be used by the religious fanatics to bolster their cause and here the worst thing that can happen to a Muslim male is to be degraded by a female. If it was an Iraq female who attempted to do something like what has happened they would be dead in very short order but with female American troops involved it only goes to make it that much harder to win the hearts and minds of the general population so for the sake of keeping the peace things like what have been reported should never happen as they only antagonizes the local population more than they already are.

Col

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I can totally appreciate that

by Oz_Media In reply to The Nam was different but ...

During Nam there were also many Mercs who were like the gunmen of the wild west.

A VERY close friend of mine (who recently passed, mey he rest in peace) was a former Merc. Third degree blackbelt and all that nasty high end killer soldier stuff, kill you with your own eyelash or whatever.

He spoke of HORROR stories as they were often sent to scout out these areas on foot that were jungle covered and unable to be viewed from th air. They would go on overnight raids of these hidden camps, MANY civilian, and the atroctious ways they broke military laws was a nightly issue. They were never given INSTRUCTIONS by commanders as they were pretty much left to their own, just given a target to seek out and "i'll see you tomorrow" kind of idea.

They were allowed to run free and do whatever they wanted to, upon returning to base they would not speak to other soldiers about what had occurred and would only give recon reports as needed. The rest was never asked and never brought up again. It was THIS mentality that he said flowed down the ranks to the lower ranking soldiers and other platoons, and was also condoned and supported as these Mercs were looked up to by other soldiers and held with high esteem.

Yes, he killed innocent women and children, burned family homes ect. and some stories he wouldn't share at all, even with his closest freidns, he took much of went on in Nam to the grave with him.

So as much as I completely agree that MOST soldiers were trained as you say to report any unjustified and illegal actions if they were 'ordered to break the rules' so to speak, their were others who committed MANY war crimes and other crimes on humanity and were silently praised for their work and NEVER questioned or asked for a detailed report, just simple recon reports of what was found. He said a lot of unjustified deaths and burned up villages (Zippo raids) were not reported, and just put down as 'not located.'

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An old say over there was

by JimHM In reply to Server my 365 and a wake- ...

An old sayin over there was - "What Happens in the Bush stays in the Bush" (not GW). If your commanding officer believed that - and you reported something - good chance of getting FRAGed (Killed by freindly fire) - it was up to the solder to report it - but for the command structure to back it. Kerry was part of that command structure! -

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Yes

by Garion11 In reply to I find your qualifying st ...

In fact I will go on record as to state that those people have a completely closed mind and nothing and I mean nothing (even in 20 years when Iraq and hopefully some more of the neighboring Arab states are full fledged democracies) will ever change their mind and their feeling of hatred and jealousy of US power and stature until we are not the world's #1 power anymore. Then whoever steps onto that stage will take USA's place (who hopefully will be as restraining as US is and was in controlling their power) and all the jealousy and hatred will be directed towards them.

They will find anyway, ANYWAY (whether they HAVe to make up stories, be negative, come up with conspiracy theories)to blame America first and foremost, in every situation that concerns the world. I am utterly shocked that the SARS virus event, Chechenya bombings, India and Pakistan rivalry, death of cockroaches in Iraq isn't blamed on America.

So hence I say screw the world's opinion, they hate us anyway!!!(unless America has a president that can curb US's power and might with his policies). As Bush stated, I will not ask the world's permission to protect America and its interests. And damn right he was.

So if you are offended just by my title, then you shouldn't go out into the world at all. Stay home with your carebears!

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Hate Speech

by TheChas In reply to Yes

In the few postings I have seen from you, there has been more vile hatred than from any other peer that I can recall.

Before you run off on another spiteful tangent, let me explain some of my views.

Prior to the start of the Iraq war, I was opposed to President Bush taking military action at that time.

Now that we have taken over Iraq, we NEED to stay until the mission is complete.
At a minimum, we cannot leave until Iraq has a functioning government, police force, and army.

While the Bush administration (and war hawks) credit the invasion of Iraq with reducing global terrorism, the more likely reality is that the World Trade Center attack served as a wake-up call to governments around the world.
The increased vigilance of police and intelligence groups is what has reduced terror attacks.

I fear that the murder of Mr Berg is the beginning of a new wave of 1 on 1 terrorism.

I find it interesting that so many conservatives consider the US press to be grossly liberal.

The majority of news organizations in the US are run by conservative businessmen.
The network owners and managers have "1" goal for the news programs. RATINGS!!!!!
In the US news organizations ratings are FAR more important than TRUTH. Or, balance.
Whether you like it or not, bad news from Iraq generates higher ratings then good news.

As a point of fact, I here many more positive stories about our actions in Iraq from NPR news than from any other news source.
NPR is the exception to the rule of US news organizations.
Their goal is to provide balanced accurate coverage of the news.
(Yes, I agree that most of the NPR commentators lean to the left.)

The "reporting" that I have heard from Rush Limbaugh is some of the most 1 sided and biased reporting I have ever heard. His show is designed to rile the conservative spirit. in the name of ratings.
I have yet to hear Rush report more than half of any story.

Also, we DO need to renew our efforts to build coalitions with the rest of the world.
The only way to significantly reduce the ranks of the terrorists is to have strong ties with ALL of the world governments.

So, calm down and allow some reasoned thought to enter your mind.
Just because someone is opposed to the war in Iraq does not make them anti-American.
Nor does blindly supporting our President make one a patriot.

Chas

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Come on, Chas - be real - don't insult

by maxwell edison In reply to Hate Speech

.
You make such great points, but then ruin it by saying something like, "Nor does blindly supporting our President make one a patriot."

Blindly??????

Blindly??????

Why must you (and others) always interject these inaccurate and insulting adjectives in an attempt to discredit.

Blindly??????

Blindly??????

I assume that you think that I also "blindly" follow President Bush?

Blindly??????

Blindly??????

Can't a person agree without being accused of doing it "blindly"?

Blindly??????

Blindly??????

For Pete's sake, some of us do have minds, you know. And there's nothing "blind" about it.

Blindly??????

Blindly??????

Just because some people see things differently than you dosen't mean we do it blindly.

Blindly??????

Blindly??????

My eyes are wide open, thank you very much.

(Yes, it does get me POed)

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A Contrast

by TheChas In reply to Come on, Chas - be real - ...

Max,

My last comment in the post was meant to be a contrast.

It looks like you read it as some have read your humorous posts.

My point is that a person who is opposed to the Iraq war, and / or policies of the present President (at any time) can be more of a Patriot than a person who follows the lead of the President without question.

I know that you come to your conclusions from researching information on the topic.

I get the impression that many of the other citizens who fully support the war in Iraq and President Bush do so not from reasoned research, but because they are happy that the US Armed Forces are out kicking arse.

I consider many of these people to be "fair weather" Patriots.
Much like the sports fans that only come out and support the local team when they are winning.

Chas

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