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Pros and Cons – Dell or Build Your Own

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Okay,

I won’t say much about my opinion (at this point), but I’m looking for the pros and cons of buying Dell computers versus building your own. This will be for desktop computing, not servers.

Over the past many years, I’ve always built my own computers, but one of the company officers wants to consider buying Dells instead. We’re assembling a list of pros and cons for either option. I have my list, but there’s always room for more considerations.

I’ve also posted this in the Q&A section (top featured question). However, I’d like this to generate enough interest and activity to keep it on the featured discussions list (at least for one day), so if you want to post your thoughts here, then copy them to the question section, you’ll get a share of a bunch of points. (One can never have enough points, can one?)

Thanks for your time.

Topic

Dell versus Build your own – 2

In reply to Pros and Cons – Dell or Build Your Own

I’m not sharing my pros and cons list (nor will I reveal on which side I fall) because I want to leave the considerations wide open. I’m sure some of my distinguished peers (and maybe some not so distinguished) have some ideas that haven’t occured to me.

Thanks again.

Other pre-manufactured options

In reply to Dell versus Build your own – 2

If you feel strongly about a pre-manufactured computer other than Dell, please feel free to divert the initial question in that direction. However, I would never consider a Gateway.

I second that motion…

In reply to Other pre-manufactured options

No Gateways!

A no-brainer

In reply to Other pre-manufactured options

Dell wins, for me anyway. Here’s why.

When you take in the cost of the software, I just can’t build them as cheap. And that does not include my time. I’m upgrading my company now with Dells. I’m spending about $900 dollars per box (no monitor, different issue). I get a PC, a 3 year warranty, W2K, and Small offic XP. I have a hard drive with an image on it. Since thay are all the same, I jst burn the drive in 20 minutes, spend another hour or moving files and setting up printers and email, and I’m done. I don’t care at all if the hardware is compatibale with anything else or not. If it breaks in the next 3 years, they fix it. If I were to order W2K and Office XP it would run me nearly $600 dollars. FOr about $300 more, I’m getting a new PC.
Also, trying to maintain a bunch of clones with different hareware (different drivers) is a nightmare. Each Dell has a code number. If I need to update a driver, I just log into their web site, punch in my number, and it lists all the drivers. If I have to rebuild one down the road, I don’t have to guess. It’s all stored in their database. Factor in your BUILD/SETUP time, and your MAINTENANCE time, plus trying to keep track of updated drivers, and it’s just no contest. Sure I might get a little better performance, but life is too short to make it worth the trouble.

As an aside, a few months back I was pricing them, and I got what I thought was a great deal. I’ve built my PC’s since 1987, but I couldn’t pass this up. I got a 2ghz Pent4, 256mb ram, 60hd, 64mb Geforce MX,WinXP,MS-Office AND, a 15″ flat panel (LCD) monitor for $750. Free shipping/3 year warranty. Blinding performance, no. But I couldn’t build it for anywhere near that.

Another great question, Maxwell.

Not so distinguished peer – ;)

In reply to Dell versus Build your own – 2

Before deciding on either a Dell PC or a BYO, you have to ask yourself a couple of questions.

1- What am I going to use the computer for?
2- Do I have an in house ( knowledgeable ) tech support team?
3- Is my tech support team in house or on call 24×7?
4- Are the end users ( EU ) power users or PEBCAK ( Problem exists between chair and keyboard ) users
5- What is the budget?

PROS Dell:

 Cost effective
 24×7 support
 Just connect your cable, plug it in, andaway you go
 Good warranty
 Good OEM packages

CONS Dell:

 24×7 support ? paying for what you don?t need
 Can be difficult to customize
 Some models stuck with OEM that is not required
 Can be expensive to service

My 2 cents??

Sullyman – this discussion will also

In reply to Not so distinguished peer – ;)

Mr. Sullyman, my most distinguished peer,

Perhaps this discussion will also aid in healing some of the hard feelings and/or misconceptions that have developed between many discussion “regulars”. (Not to suggest, of course, that either you or I fall into that camp.) There’s nothing like an “on-topic” discussion to highlight similarities instead of differences, don’t you think? And I would imagine that a mere difference of opinion would not be met with such passionate rebuttals.

Personally

In reply to Dell versus Build your own – 2

It all depends on price.

Sometimes I build my own, and other times I buy from a vendor like dell.

As far as pre-installed software. I never leave the OS that dell installs. I always blow it away and start from scratch.

If I am buying in bulk, I will make a base system withh all of the programs and sp’s, then clone it (sysprep and ghost are great).

It is typically easier going thru one vendor when a part breaks. Versus buying parts from multiple vendors.

So again, what it all really boils down to is price and warranty.

Imaging…

In reply to Personally

WHo could ever leave a factory image on a machine for their business use? If someone isn’t doino this, they’re risking their “Image stability” to Dell, when they should be controlling it on their own. Ghost is definitely a must for all companies, big or small.

I’ve suggested and implemented it in many small offices too, from a small wholesaler of pump equipment to a small-medium sized gun barrel manufacturing facility. It’s a must to reduce downtime in the long run.

Tha dawg has spoken… :)

In reply to Imaging…

Unfortunately, I disagree with Jason – but maybe if I clarify, we can come to agreement – In a different post I mentioned removing the ‘gimmicky’ stuff. For example, Toshibas *shudder* had some ‘Ring Central’ software and some other strange programs hiding amongst the Accessories etc. IBM has all sorts of crap that I don’t even want to mention. Conversely, the Dells have very little (at least the way our configuration has been) extras.

Where Jason and I worked (an environment that had supported over 4000 employees in a few different divisions), we made it a habit of taking out those little goofy programs and leaving the OS as the OEM configured it.

The OEM built it and it has been tested to work. Then you get YOUR apps to work with the OS. If things aren’t working, then you may have to rethink they way you are deploying your apps (or work with the vendor to find out the real issue).

They know what patches work with their systems, issues with the image – etc. –

And as I mentioned in an earlier post, using a standard image and machine allows for you to communicate with many other people in different locations who may have the same issue – thus a quicker resolution to your problem. If you use your own load, youron your own for resolving your questions.

oooh – debate!
Rob

No fu***n way….

In reply to Tha dawg has spoken… :)

Security policy dictates that only pre-approved software, installed by Network Operations goes on the machines. That means, no pre-installed software.

I have a very stable process for installing the OS and the seqeuntial company approved apps. Yes, once I blow away the OS I am responsible for the OS. That is the way I want it anyways. I do not want my end users or help desk calling up dell because their OS install is broken.

The only time I would ever call the vendor, is for hardware replacement. In fact, the first thing I do is blow away the OS.

I could go thru and remove all of the extraneous crap that they put on it. But it takes me less time to install it from scratch and deploy the image to the new systems.

Which youbuy a server and deploy it in is’s default config from the manufacturer? Hell no.
That is probably one of the most irresponsible things you can ever do.

As it stands, even on a new install of a compaq server, you have to remove all of the compaq tools that smart start installs.

Such language.

In reply to No fu***n way….

?

By the way, “configuration” is different than using the base OS install. I would never expect anyone to just slap a server on the network without configuring it to coincide with network policies.

With regards to customizing the OEM’s image. It doesn’t take that long. Configure your base OS, then clone it – then save it. Why re-invent the wheel? And, if you need to, you can go all the way back to the original mfgr’s OEM build CD for base reference (and you can order it from them if you need it in another OS, or earlier revision, etc.).

cont in next post

Such language, part II

In reply to No fu***n way….

Obviously your company has different directives, and that’s cool – but see my view for a second.

Yes, you build the OS, but it’s not the vendor’s OS – so when you call them and say you’ve a problem with their PC, they aren’t going to be very helpful if they find out you’ve set up your own OS image.

This can work for you: It is especially important if you have someone order a rogue Dell and you aren’t around to build it. What then? The key is to not make yourself too key in the build process. If you do, then your TCO goes up. At my company, if a rogue Dell does end up with a base vendor image here, then I know it will work with all of our software. Let group policies take care of the rest.

Sure, I tweak it the image – adjustsecurity permissions, etc. – but I KNOW that a Dell out of the box will work with our environment without even touching the PC.

My point is that if you WANT the most support possible, you should not stray from the vendor’s load (barring the cheesey apps, of course), that way they can easily recreate your configuration on their side to help you through issues.

I guess I don’t understand why you can’t see my point.

I do see yours. It fits your environment, so that’s great – it’s just that I am offering up all the options here that I can think of. Trust me on this one, I’ve dealt with OEMs enough to bring this to you from personal history. They are more apt to help you if you do have advanced technical issues if you are using as much configuration as possible.

And what’s with the hostility?

Anyhoo.

Rob

Cool, but…

In reply to Such language, part II

I disagree with that thuogh. I remember all the individual config I had to do in one lab environment, until one friend of mine wrote me a VB Script to randomly rename computers to get them working on the LAN in less work after multicasting an image onto them… Hmmmm…

If people are ordering rogue hardware without going through IT, there’s a major operational issue going on that would be a problem in most houes. If your theory about having things work like that works, then cool. I had no idea they could be that flexible… I remember LMT having multiple machines of different flavors, and all they had standard was the NIC and Video card, and the previous consultant from our office (bishop) thought that was standardized…

To me having to run through registry hacks (if u do) and uninstalling apps on every machine after you image it or pull it out of the box would be too much mundane work. I want to configure an image once, then roll it out and have it work, then have the same updates bring it up to speed on security, so all machines are the same, or in limited flavors.

Operations

In reply to Such language, part II

If people are ordering their own hardware from Dell, there’s an inconsistency in purchasing, and it should all be decided at the CIO level when hardware is purchased, etc… Good OEM vendors supply machines for x amount of months because of this too, allowing your depts the ability to order the “compaq armada M700” for 9 months, in case you need to add additional machines.

If it’s true or not, managers need to understand this and have all purchases channeled through one person or departmentin order to make sure things go smoothly for the company, too. Hopefully the company can get a good rep at Compaq or Dell and have themwork with this person to iron out a contract (CIO’s croniez should organize) and then prices have been set. Then the company can go about it’s planning and budgeting process to keep cost flowing under control in the PC purchasing arena, so that no one gets upset that they spent 100,000 more on computers in 2003 than they did in 2002 and be expected to take the hit.

I’m not harping on you Rob, I guess I’m just sharing what I think is best for business through my experiences during the late XC and post XC.

that’s just me being a dick

In reply to Such language, part II

I come from the security world.

Which dictates, Never trust anything that you did not build yourself.

We are both basically doing the same thing. I just opt for the more secure of the 2 methods.

Your going to re-image the systems anyways, right?

So why beat around the bush with their pre-installed OS if you are going to manipulate anyways. Why not start from scratch so you know exactly what the install process was.

That is the major difference between what I am saying and what you are saying.

I “know” the exact install steps for every machine in my enterprise. I do not have to guess. And beleive it or not, there is a better path to installing things that will lead to a healthier, stable machine.

A case in point, installing Service Pack, IE, Office and hotfixes. I have found that by installing office before IE you run into more problems then if you install IE before Office. Then there is more problems if you install your sp then hotfixes, instead of sp, all programs then hot fixes.

Even Winzip and Realplayer has a install problem. By installing RealPlayer and then Immediatley after Winzip, IF real player’s install process has not cleared, Winzip will not install. Then there is the default install ofReal vs MS. If you install Real after MS and leave the default settings, you will have issues playing media files.

These are some of the small reasons that I never leave an OS to chance. Regardless of who the installer is.

Vender assistance

In reply to Such language, part II

I have to disagree with the comment that the vendor will not be helpful if the OS has been changed. I worked in a shop that had hundreds of Dells and the first thing I did was blow away the OS that was on the box when it was delivered and installed from scratch so it was configured the way I wanted it. I NEVER had any problem getting help from Dell when I contacted them. I must add here that the only reason I needed to contact Dell was to get replacement hardware. If for any reason there was a software issue the OS was reinstalled, who has time to fight with an OS when it is so easy to reinstall.

My two cents on the original question; buy the Dells for the users; build the super-powerful workstation that you, the admin, will be using.

Clarifaction?

In reply to No fu***n way….

Rob clarified me well, but I think that in that environment, it was the client’s choice to do it that way. I forgot about that. We didn’t totally manage the process, they had their grubby hands on it fromt he top, and powerfully dictated the process. We just had input on how to modify it to make it work. I didn’t agree with everything that client did, leading to part of my bias towards blowing the entire machine away. If the hardware is certified for Win2k, then it’s certified, and my image is the only thing that goes on it now.

Compaq cares less if we have our own image on it, but that the hardware has truly failed.

And to mention Toshiba, they were messed up in the heads then, and regardless of technology changes, I’ll always pick another brand over Toshiba.

(-:{

In reply to Clarifaction?

Oops, I can’t spell.

Finally…

In reply to No fu***n way….

We used this methodology when we were supporting 2000 users at one location (well, multiple locales but one region). Seemed to work without any hitches for us. Just work the OEM OS down to a bearable level, then clone it.

Also – the OEM’s (and this might be because the Supply Management dept worked it out in our contract) bent to our will when we had any issues whatsoever with their loads. That was the caveat, tho’ – we had to use their image and they would support it fully. But we neverfound a problem with it – the OEM tests the drivers and patches for stability.

I don’t know how many people you support, but you can’t expect every other support guy on your team to be as savvy as you (which you appear to be) and create an OS image on the spot for your environment when you aren’t around, right? If you get hit by the proverbial bus, can someone get to your (routinely) updated documentation on image builds?

This is why it’s easier to lay the support where it’s due. Don’t reinvent the wheel because of pride – tweak the existing image to your parameters.

I dunno – I hope I didn’t say the wrong thing here, but it seems that we both feel pretty strongly about our views.

Here is my stance…..

In reply to Finally…

I’m a purist. (BTW- I am a very to the point direct person who curses alot, that’s just who I am; most people on this board who have been here a while know that it is just my personality)

In my enterprise, we have several different types of systems. From the desktop, to servers, to specialty systems.

And I have purchashed large volumes of OEM systems thru dell. I like their hardware base.

But you nor I do not know everything they installed on there. And how many of your endusers need MSMoney and the default install of office? I know mine don’t.

Uninstalling all of the extraneuous programs that are installed, cleaning up the registry, then installing your programs, actually takes longer then starting from scratch.

And ifyou start from scratch, you know exactly what was installed, and you should have an install record. (to the beckoning of my colleages I recently posted my security install docs for a 2k server install and linux).

So in answer to your question, no I do not do the installs myself. But I did develop the install process and my teams at our various locations do the work following my guidelines. When They need to build a system by hand, they follow an exact sequence to installing programs, and they do not deviate.

So instead of guessing what is installed, I know what is installed. I can walk up to any machine on any one of my networks and see if it was altered by the end user.

And I will state for the record, No Admin or help desk tech worth his weight in silicon, should be calling the OEM manufacturer about a OS related issue. Then oly time my staff will call the manufacturer is if a piece of hardware has physically failed.

Same thing, two different approaches.

In reply to Finally…

So you start with an oem os and end with a custom or start with a custom and modify it towards an oem. Either way if you get it right for your app then it should be the same thing. I just know how to start from scratch with MS stock. If I was more knowledgable about a specific vendors mods I could go the other way, whichever is more efficient.

IMO the point is, no one doing this for long will tend to leave out of the box software running on a business network if they stay in the biz for a while.

:) – I think I know which side you fall

In reply to Dell versus Build your own – 2

My guess is that that this discussion is taking place because you would rather build the PCs – normally management doesn’t know much about that sort of thing, but you want to get the full gammit of opinions so you can be more informed. 🙂

I thinkit’s a great discussion and we should all really be aware of the pros & cons related to this topic.

The question always comes up when I talk to people from other companies, and by reading these posts, I’ll have better knowledge on how to answer them!

Rob

Billable Time = Cost to employer

In reply to :) – I think I know which side you fall

Is the $100 per machine you save the company going to be worth the thousands in salary that your company is giving up by letting you champ that project?

This is a big factor that I didn’t even think about. I work for an accounting firm, and one good term every eager tech needs to keep in his back pocket is “don’t waste a dollar to save a penney”. I had this in trying to refurb portable HP printers and their document feeders, etc… It cost $299 for the new “firm standard”, and was asked by my manager not to waste too much time on the old printers to save a few cents, when the cost of the new printers is already justified in the speed and efficiency they get over the old ones anwyay…

Rob – you are correct

In reply to :) – I think I know which side you fall

Mine is a relatively small office (40-50), and I, alone, am the whole IT Department. Since the life cycle of a computer is around 4-5 years, we buy no more than a dozen computers a year.

I could buy a Dell (without monitor) for around $800, or Icould build a similar specified one for around $700. The Dell argument suggests that the time it takes me to build a box is not worth the $100 savings. Even though I disagree with that (it only takes about 30 minutes to put the pieces together, and I would want to remove Dell’s OS and reinstall mine), I contend that the considerations are much more than just the dollars, but the scores of intangibles that are difficult to put a price on.

For example, Dell’s $800 machine has integrated video, nic, and sound, and the installed RAM is shared with the video. So out of 256 MB RAM, for example, the video would be stealing 64 MB of it, denying the system much needed memory. My $700 box would have a dedicated video card (brand of my choice) with its own RAM. Because of these kinds of things, not only can I save $$, but it will result in a better machine. The same theory applies to the other components as well. Another example is the supplied CD drive – a 48X read only drive in the Dell, or a faster read only and/or a read/write in the “Maxwell”. This is just one of many points I’m preparing for a discussion on the subject.

Another point I’ll have will be in the form of specifications sheets for two different computers (but I won’treveal which is a Dell and which is a “Maxwell”), describing the computer much as a catalogue would. I’ll pass the specification sheets to the others asking which is the better computer. Of course, no one will be able to answer that question – no one except me, of course.

I’ll post more of my opinion later on.

Just make sure

In reply to Rob – you are correct

That you don’t let your desired result taint the scientific result in pricing the two machines against each other.

better late then never

In reply to Dell versus Build your own – 2

Happened to stumble across this doing a search. Thought this might give you some insight on Dell’s vs white boxes…..since I’ve been doing it longer than dust.

It will depend on your business needs and the capabilities of the IT department. I oversee about 35 offices at about that many locations in about a 1000 mile radius. Our offices range from 3 people to 50 for a total of 450 employees. I have my vendor build my PC’s to my exact spec including an image disk (if I’m so inclined). I spec every component. I may use two vendors (better for competition) but it doesn’t matter because the hardware is the same. Neither of my vendor’s are local and I have never met them in person. One is over 300 miles and the other is 1000 miles. So distance is not a factor other than shipping. I have used one of the vendors off and on for about 20 years. The other, I have followed the sales person from one business to another with very few if any problems in service of support. I keep in contact with both regardless of who I’m using that way I’m always covered. I use the OEM for rma’s thus eliminating any middlemen. All parts are covered (mb, cpu and ram are limited)I have less than 1% rma on new boxes. When my hardware standards change for a PC we burn a new image. I upgrade my mb (asus) 2-3 times a year based on a price point. In other words I don’t buy the latest CPU unitl it is below the price point of about $400 (cpu & motherboard….leading edge not bleading edge). I use the smallest hard drives available for the workstations (Ibm’s or Seagates). We don’t store much on them. I only use Adaptec cards and Seagates in my servers. Video cards 1-2 times a year(nvidia). I can beat the price of a comparable Dell and set it up quicker. Why do I use a white box?

1. Their flexible….If a tech has a spare PC when he is traveling to remote offices and has a couple other parts (switches, routers, etc) he’s capable of fixing just about anything and everything on the network.
If a server crashes I can step the local admin over the phone through the process of pulling a controller, hd and ram from the server and installing it in a workstation in about a half hour and I have a temporary server(we actually train them to do this).

2. I can upgrade it relatively inexpensively compared to a Dell. Which gives me a longer useful life and possibly some salvage value.
For example: I just upgraded and AMD 200 server to a Intell 2.4g server for less than $800 (server case, mb, ram) pulled the Adaptecs and hard drives from the old and installed in the new. Quick and simple, no hassles, no headaches and no dell drivers.

3. I don’t have to worry about voiding a warranty. All of the parts I use are backed by the OEM warranty and I go strait to them for RMA’s.

4 mamintenance is cheaper and usually quicker and I’m not dependent on a third party. I can purchase my parts just about anywhere for less.

hope this helps.
4. Clones provide a level of fault tolerance that I can’t get with Dell’s unless I invest in more equipment.

5. All of my drivers are supported on the web were you may have to dig to find support for Dell drivers. For example try installing win98 on a gx270.

6. They are faster.

If don’t have a competent tech department you may want to go with Dell’s. If you are building them your self….talk to your vendor. He may build them to your specs for a nominal fee and still be competitive with Dell.

Posting in Discussions AND Q&A

In reply to Pros and Cons – Dell or Build Your Own

The advantage of posting an issue in both the discussions section AND the Q&A section is, of course, increased exposure. I’ve noticed that many members routinely visit one or the other, but not both.

I used to spend hoards of time at the Q&A section, but I don’t answer too many questions any more. (DKlippert passed me on the points list like I’m standing still – wait, I HAVE BEEN standing still.) I guess I’ve become a glutton for punishment, so I’ve exposed myself to the various insults these discussion threads seem to generate.

Are proprietary parts an issue

In reply to Pros and Cons – Dell or Build Your Own

It used to be that most pre-manufactured computers used proprietary hardware.

For example, if you had a Compaq computer and you spilled some clam chowder on the keyboard, and you further discovered that the dishwasher not only cleaned the keyboard, but also rendered it inoperative, then you would have to buy a replacement proprietary keyboard directly from Compaq, not from the ACME computer supply store down the street. (And, of course, the proprietary keyboard cost 4 times the dollars.) This proprietary issue would apply to just about any other component as well – hard drive, memory, etc.

Dell used to be this way, but I’m not sure if that is the case anymore. Any thoughts on this issue?

Cost Of Proprietary Parts

In reply to Are proprietary parts an issue

Having been in the computer game for some 10 years in Australia I have found that components for Dell, HP, IBM etc units are in excess of 100% dearer than common generic brands. E.g. Power Supply for a HP unit $135au compared to $49au generic brand. Availability and sourcing components in Australia in a hurry is almost impossible, especially under warranty. The units maybe cheap but repairing is another matter.

Proprietary

In reply to Are proprietary parts an issue

Yes, Dell use to be proprietary. I remember trying to track down memory for my first dell P5.
So far I’ve yet to run into an proprietary issue with the new Dells. I’ve been able to repair all the PII and newer systems with over the counter parts except the motherboard. Not all of them have the standard ATX form factor, ie… the ports aren’t in the standard ATX configuration. An example are the usb and network ports are on the right instead of by the ps2 ports.

Proprietary, yet simple

In reply to Are proprietary parts an issue

In my experience, even if the manufacturer uses proprietary parts, you are usually able to use the 3-5 yr service plan you typically buy with the machines. This allows you to make sure that the correct parts get installed regardless, keeping your standardization and images the same without any need for change until major software updates.

Pre-Loaded Software

In reply to Pros and Cons – Dell or Build Your Own

And, of course, there’s the pre-loaded software issue to contend with. For example, can one choose the operating system that’s installed – W2K or XP? What about versions of Office and the like?

I remember reading something that Lordinfidel postedon a different discussion thread about the first thing he did with a pre-manufactured computer. He said he blew away ALL the pre-loaded stuff, including the operating system, and installed his own versions and choices – configured his way.

Just another consideration.

I wouldn’t blow away the OS on OEM

In reply to Pre-Loaded Software

I would clean it up, to be sure… but many OEM vendors don’t like it when you are not using their image. You basically don’t want to unnecessarily change anything if you don’t have to.

This being said, I will clean all the gimmicky stuff off ofthe PC, get it to a base OS, load the patches, then go from there. You can also add drivers to the image, sysprep it, and have an image for a wide assortment of Dell models. For example, the Optiplex GX series is pretty consistent so modifying theimage for something like Sysprep is pretty easy.

I don’t like doing the pc-build route for corporations because it raises TCO. You can’t ever have a 100% idea if a roll-out will work with your hardware unless it’s consistent.

So, to sum up,if you can standardize on hardware, your help desk will LOVE you.

Hope this helps – great discussion…

Perspective of size

In reply to I wouldn’t blow away the OS on OEM

You say that, “your help desk will LOVE you”.

I AM the help desk AND the network administrator AND the PC Tech. AND the trainer AND anything and everything else IT related.

You gotta love yourself before…

In reply to Perspective of size

someone can love you, soooo…

🙂

Standards standards standards

In reply to Perspective of size

My apologies if this posted twice…

What I mean is (my opinion) when you build your PCs, you are invariably going to limit the company’s approach to support in the future – any TCO book will tell you this.

-However- that doesn’t mean that youare limited to big OEMs

At the very least, build your PCs with the SAME hardware every time – vary on the hard drive and memory perhaps for need… but I would make it a part of your standard to not deviate away from the manufacturers of choice.Only by ABit Motherboards, Seagate hard drives for example. Buy them in BULK, it will help you negotiate if you have problems with the vendor later.

The point is (ah, the point!) the more consistent you build your PCs, the less problems that youwill encounter later on when you roll out applications or new hardware standards. You can’t know where you’re going if you’re not sure where you are –

Later!
Rob

Hardware Revisioning

In reply to Standards standards standards

In one office, I even suggested that we follow a “revision guideline” with each piece of hardware they came out with, whether I was their consultant or not. Whenever they purchased a batch of hardware, make sure they’re all the same standard platform, and give that revision a name and number. That way they can always relate to those specs to assume much in their documentation…

And who knows if they documented a single thing after I left…

“ALL-IN-WONDER” tech…

In reply to Perspective of size

I feel your pain, and telecom, and network, oh, and “projector man”!!!!!!! People never want to hook up projectors on their own, no matter where you work!

(-:{

The pimp has spoken!

In reply to I wouldn’t blow away the OS on OEM

Rob is da man in imaging, so I’d have to say I agree with him, but what’s up with “removing the gimmicky stuff”? I guess if you aren’t able to put a fresh OS on there, then I guess you’re stuck with that. In most large corporations though, they havesomething worked out with the hardware vendor anyway, OR they simply don’t buy from them, like Gateway!!!!! (-:{

That’s why in all the houses Rob and I have worked in together, they had solid HP, Dell, or Compaq machines. We’ve had to work on some Toshibas, but we don’t like to talk about that.

Are you serious ???

In reply to I wouldn’t blow away the OS on OEM

Personally .. I will spend less time in blowing up the OS and OEM rather than cleaning it. In cleaning it it would take you time to clear it in the registry.When you clean it there is no way you will be sure in getting all those items you don’t like. How are you going to solve those missing DLL and INI when they appear at the startup.
Again softwares are getting smarters in hiding at the registry specially those trial versions.
Good Luck

Thank God for flexible 2K/XP licensing

In reply to Pre-Loaded Software

One thing to be thankful for in today’s world is that MS is flexible enough to allow a machine that was purchased with an XP license to have 2K installed on it, allowing us to buy 10-15 new machines that would normally come with XP and put 2K on it.Also, the Compaqs we get are always configured with 2K, but there will be a day when the license sticker on the bottom has an XP license on it. I’m sure our company won’t be going through the hell of any XP image changes just because of the machinesnormally coming with XP. We even go so far as to have Comark (a wholesaler, I think) put the raw image on the machines for us, and we just do the post-config on them then they come in.

Catch 22

In reply to Pros and Cons – Dell or Build Your Own

First of all is this for personal use or is it for business? If business definetly Dell. We have them in our office and they are dependable complete with warrantee. We get premier support that we troubleshoot the problem, call the techs and shoot down their troubleshooting tactics. They are quite familiar with us and dont offer objections. As for the propritary issue I feel your pain, however when it comes to mice and keyboards they are under warrantee as a field destroy issue, meaning they dont question, as long as under warrantee they just send a new one out no questions or proof. AS for the HDD issue ect… your screwed cause they will try everything to keep from replacing unless you got a newbie tech that will either try to FFR you or replace.
As for Dell since they are customizable I believe the propriatary issue is none existent compared to Compaq/HP. I used to work for Gateway and let me tell you what pieces of junk they are and the support was hose and close, but no propriatary hardware,they did have the best support cds though that had all drivers on one, app on another ect….

Catch22 part Duex

In reply to Catch 22

If for personal use, definetly build your own. If your competant to build you can troubleshoot anyway. You will save more money, get better quality parts, and not have to worry over bad tech support that will waste countless days and hours for resolution while talking to techs from other countries with broken english playing 20 questions. Lets face it they give the magical wipe disk to resolve everything, you must prove beyond a shadow of a doubt their fault and not say too much that voids the warrantee if any part isnt theirs where they will document it and spend hours trying to talk to a manager thats only a better tech getting paid a whopping .50 more than the other iddiot. Tech support is all about the 15 min call to make the outsourcecenters more denero not resolve issues, it’s sad but we want cheaper products and are willing to sacrifice quality support hoping we dont get a lemon never needing it.

Personal Preference

In reply to Catch22 part Duex

On the Dell issue, I have been involved in the purchase of at least 20 Dell machines in the last 2 years and so far all but one have run with no serious problems (aside from the occasional user errors). The one laptop developed a bad hard drive after about a year’s use and Dell replaced it without many questions and overnight shipping. I haven’t had a problem ordering systems with the OS I asked for. The only problem I have with Dell machines is all the garbage installed that isn’t necessary,but if you want barebones install then purchase their business machines or reformat and install your own OS. I’m not so sure you can compete with Dell price/quality wise buying your own parts for a self built, but i haven’t really checked that closely. I agree 100%, don’t buy Gateway crap!

My Thoughts….

In reply to Pros and Cons – Dell or Build Your Own

Dells. We just bought 2 for WS use. They are the only thing I will buy besides custom or build your own. Although there can be mb modifications etc. on Dell Systems, I have had none of the Compaq\HP\Gateway headaches of propriatary parts, in fact everything off the shelf I have used later inside a Dell has been as good as any white box IMExperience.

As far as software, if you read up on Software Assurance you have 90 days from purchase date to sign up with SA- so if you get the cheapest 2k on the box you can upgrade to XPpro (and anything before or beyond for two years) with Volume License Keys and then just blow the OS and reload what you want. The money you save can go towards the new OS, and even if you stick with 2k for now you can add XP or the next Gen for free, moving back and forth in the OS product line at will. The lack of registration problems and Unique ID’s especially when imaging is well worth the 103 dollars for SA on the OS. Besides, you’ll save all or more than that by buying a cheaper OS from Dell anyway IME.

Having said all that, unless a department really wants Dells, I can still get higher performing white boxes custom built for the same money, so I suggest these, however I still leave it open for a Dell and nothing else at this point in time.

Hope this helps! 🙂

neocomputers.com

In reply to My Thoughts….

I’ve found in personal use, I only go with one white-box vendor because I trust them, and EVERY time I step outside that relationship for a cheaper cost on a system, I get burned… With parts it’s another story, but systems (barebones or not), I get burned.

What’s your demand/quantity?

In reply to Pros and Cons – Dell or Build Your Own

Well for my home I bought a Dell once, ended up customizing so much that the only thing “Dell” about it after 8 months was the logo on the case. 😉

We use Dell servers and a few notebooks. Have never had a quality or reliability issue with the servers or notebooks.

I think though, the main things to consider when buying computers for business use are:

1) Do you have an IT department/Helpdesk in-house?
2) How many PCs do you need? How fast do you need them?
3) What tasks are these PCsgoing to be used for – generalized data-entry, email, spreadsheet kind of tasks — or analyzing the molecular structure of DNA strands.. 😉

The only real benefit of building PCs yourself, assuming you are fine with supporting them yourself as well, is that you control the quality. You buy the exact parts you want, you configure it EXACTLY how you want it to run.

Usually this means you can make a *FAR* higher end PC than any PC manufacturer can churn out for you.

However it pretty muchends there.

You can save money buying pre-canned PCs
You can get high quanity of PCs fast
You don’t have to worry about supporting them, they have warranties
All you do is plug them and turn thme on — the OS is already loaded, drivers installed, etc.

Con’s are — you wouldn’t want to do very intense scientific type of research with just a canned PC from Dell, Compaq, HP, Sony, etc. etc….

But then most companies just want to access a DB, write email and share word documents.

Why Build – Because

In reply to What’s your demand/quantity?

Tom has a pretty solid argument overall. However, I can think of another justification for building instead of buying besides needing a machine so far advanced from any standard build.

As an apprenticed cabinet maker in the early 1900’s, my grandfather’s first project was to build his own workbench. It is a knock down unit suitable for carrying from work site to work site, and developed his basic skills. Once a journeyman, his focus was on practicing his skill, not learning it, and in most cases his tools were purchased.

I suggest the same applies to those in ICT. Building, or more accurately today assembling, one’s first computer is an excellent way to gain skills and comfort with the technology. Perhaps this first machine should include a self built OS under proper guidance, and self written applications. Its an excellent way to gain insight into the hows and whys of the packaged systems that will be used.

Now for those who are simply users – buying is the best choice. Cabbies don’t build their own cars, truckers don’t build their own trucks, commercial pilots don’t build the airliners.

Excellent point

In reply to Why Build – Because

I didn’t think about the educational benefits of assembling your own PC, I was making the assumption that the author of the post was already a skilled IT professional.

That is a good point though, I know I learned a helluva lot about servers whenI assembled my first. Leard about how SCSI controllers work, learned about RAID, hot pluggable HDs/PS, etc.

I’ll still tear stuff apart today just to learn about it (naturally I don’t experiment on production equipment though).

Not only is it a good way to learn

In reply to Excellent point

But it is also a good way to continue to learn, to continue to stay on top of the new developments in the industry.

wasted time

In reply to Not only is it a good way to learn

I think all that is wasted time in today’s highly cut-apart world. People don’t get paid good money to do those little things, causing the well-protected OEM box a must for business. most IT departments don’t have the resources to add a project likethat to their IT teams, they’re have to temp someone in. It might be worthwhile in small offices where the “all in one” tech might happen to have enough time to get that in.

Build your own.

In reply to Pros and Cons – Dell or Build Your Own

Here are a few pros and cons for ya:

Pros of Dell:

They’re cheaper than you can build them and they usually come with a relatively nice warranty.

They’re not as proprietary as before.

Cons of Dell:

The relatively nice warranty that you get with it is totally worthless should you change ANYTHING on the machine. IE. You bought it with Win2K and downgraded it yourself to Win98. You have a problem, it will take an act of God to get those non-english speaking people on the other end of the phone to even acknowledge your existance till you put their software back on.

You get an inferior product versus what you could have built yourself.

The image that they send out on their hard drives is plain crap. It’s their own revision of the os with outdated drivers. Personally, when I get our prefab machines, first thing I do is, update the BIOS, wipe the MBR and format c: /u. Then install from there.

Their website with driver downloads are usually outdated. You’re better off getting in touch with the manufacturer of the part you’re trying to update. Ie. Mobo drivers – usually they’re Intel chipsets, so visit Intel for those. Not Dell.

This is just from my experience if you care.

Mrafrohead

IMO – there is NO prefab machine that will EVER top a Home built box. So build it yourself. If you need to support it, you built it so you know how it works best;)

Not sure about that

In reply to Build your own.

You’re right that if you build a box you’ll know everything about it. But suppose you walk into a company, new job, and they have 75 home-built, no documentation, a box with a bunch of assorted driver disks thrown in, and another box with a bunch ofbooks tossed in. Now you have to rebuild/reformat/reinstall. Be prepared to spend hours or days getting that stuff to work right.
Remember, the questions is not about performance, it’s about boxes that have to perform in a business enviroment.

True – BUT

In reply to Not sure about that

If you can’t tear the box apart, look at the hardware and tell what hardware is what. Then you shouldn’t be working on the machines.

There are many different ways to tell what hardware is what.

If worse comes to worse, you can look at the FCCID and track it down that way. Every piece of hardware I’ve ever had a hard time with has always had one of these numbers and from there you can track down the parts.

In all honesty, it really wouldn’t take that much longer to look up the drivers than any other prefab machine. Because if you want to setup the prefab right, you also will still be tearing apart the prefab to verify what is inside of it.

I don’t trust the drivers that are found on a prefab pc’s site. I download the drivers from the manufacturer of the part. Not the company that put the parts together.

And by doing this, for a business environment, you end up with a better machine. Less shutdown issues. Less hang problems.

Again, this is all based off of my experience working with computers.

And another point on the preloaded os’s… Remember, you don’t want to use those anyhow. As those os’s probably aren’t setup with the switches that you would have used yourself. Just a generic setup to get bywith from the manufacturer.

Mrafrohead

Reply To: Pros and Cons – Dell or Build Your Own

In reply to True – BUT

There is plenty of junk hardware that is clearly marked. I avoid unbranded components as unreliable, unsupported and unworthy of consideration. Sure you can track the FCC ID but why should you have to and even if you find the vendor do they offer driver support or warranty service. If I have to work that hard for support I don’t want the part, rather buy known parts that have support.

VERY TRUE!!!

In reply to Not sure about that

I’ve been there! I stand by my choice to purchase from a reliable OEM like Compaq with good support contracts, etc…

True of all not just Dell

In reply to Build your own.

Just to add to what mrafrohead said, I agree to an extend with what he posted, however it would appear he is saying all that is true with just Dell.

The issue with the warranty if you change the OS — that’s with ANY manufacturer — HP, Gateway, Compaq, Sony, you name it. And its not even really their fault — 1) I don’t see how you could blame them, if I owned a computer company I wouldn’t want to be responsible for something as severely impacting a PC as an OS change — when I know I didn’t sell the box with the OS that is now on it…that’s just common sense to me. 2) It’s not their fault anyway, all these manufacturers have contracts with Microsoft. That’s why they MUST ship a system with an OS (a Microsoft one), and I believe that effects their warranty support to. 3) Finally, unless you purchased some tech support contract that is specially from the warranty..the manufacturers are in the business of selling computers they aren’t helpdesks (outside of products they sold you).
Also, Dell–as far as the manufacturers go — I’ve found is very good quality.

For the record — all manufacturers use some level of customized image for their machines. Also for the record, I agree — the images are crap. 🙂 I also format the computers upon arrival and re-install to my own liking.

I also agree, you’ll never touch the quality of a self assembled PC (unless the person who assembles it has no knowledge about what he/she is doing of course).

The main reason for NOT building your own for a company….QUANITY and WARRANTY. If you can build 50 PCs in the same time Dell can ship 50 to you, you are superman. If you would rather be responsible for servicing 50 PCs than being able to call Dell support to service them– you are crazy.

Note: 50 Pcs was just used as an example.

😉

Reply To: Pros and Cons – Dell or Build Your Own

In reply to True of all not just Dell

I can’t believe I’m about to defend Compaq here, BUT – my experience with Compaq is they don’t care what OS is installed on their machines as long as it’s an OS that they support.

My problem that I had with Dell was this: I had a computer they sent to us with Win2k on it. Well we were using Win98 at the time. I couldn’t find a reference to a driver that they had on the computer for Win98. So I called them asking for the driver number. They wouldn’t give it to me unless I bought the computer with Win98. EVEN though they sell the same machine with Win98. I have a bad taste in my mouth from Dell and their snooty little non english speaking drones. I eventually tracked down what I needed anyhow. I guess that’s just what I get for trying to save a few minutes and ask for help… ;x

In response to number 1 in paragraph 2 – I recall these machines sold and a feature is that they’re “upgradeable”. So if you can’t upgrade the OS – what’s the point??? Technology changes, and if the company selling the product can’t grow with that, then they probably aren’t going to be around very long.

As for building 50 pc’s. Man, I’ll build you 100 before Dell overnights the 50 to my work;) Muwahahahahahahahahaha

I’m sure it can be done, but…

In reply to Reply To: Pros and Cons – Dell or Build Your Own

If you can build taht many, that fast, then you MUST be more of a hardware guru than most of us. We’ve all been around the hardware and can troubleshoot, but most of don’t have time to deal with the crap. We just want to pinpoint the part, then callCompaq to have it overnighted to us.

Failed attempt at sarcasm.

In reply to I’m sure it can be done, but…

Sorry…

I actually can’t build that many that fast myself. It was a failed attempt at sarcasm.

Mrafrohead

I’m sure it can be done, but…

In reply to Reply To: Pros and Cons – Dell or Build Your Own

If you can build taht many, that fast, then you MUST be more of a hardware guru than most of us. We’ve all been around the hardware and can troubleshoot, but most of don’t have time to deal with the crap. We just want to pinpoint the part, then callCompaq to have it overnighted to us.

I disagree with most of that…

In reply to Build your own.

Here’s my reasoning. You are running production data on those PCs and/or servers (sometimes people will run production SQL databases on a beefed-up PC). Suddenly, the database fails, the hard drive crashes, etc. –

Personally, I would very muchlike it to be Dell’s (or insert company X’s name here) fault that the PC failed, and that extra money that I spent is going to speak volumes with regards to getting someone out and fixing the problem.

Now, this shouldn’t minimize the fact that you do pick up important skills when building your own PCs – BUT, you may not be at that job throughout the lifetime of those machines, or your role may change, and you don’t want to support those PCs forever, do you? It’s just easier to have the new IT guy contact Dell if there are problems instead of hounding you.

Rob

Me too…

In reply to I disagree with most of that…

This would be my reasoning;)

My main point is this. I would NEVER trust a knucklehead from ANY prefab company to come out and try to fix the computers. They’re ignorant enough on the phone. If I met one in real life, I’d probably have to follow through with the urges I get on the phone and strangle the guy…

All I ever use their tech support for, is to either report a bug to them. Ask them to replace a warranted part. Or to inquire a driver number when the web site is defective or Iam just too damned stoopid to find what I’m looking for:)

Also, Database failure – the prefab support won’t help you. HD Failure – they’ll just send you a new HD. But WE’RE the people that need to recover the data before replacing the disk. Prefab support won’t be able to help you there either.

The last paragraph – well. I totally agree with what you are saying. But for me. I’m not that nice. I’d give them one chance for me to explain what they want. After that, they’re on their own:)

Wocka wocka

Mrafrohead

yeah – me too…wait

In reply to Me too…

Yes, but the fact that they’re knuckleheads isn’t your fault. If you are a knucklehead, well, then – it is your fault 🙂 The point being that the companies have policies and procedures in place to take care of your service issues.

If the database fails because of hardware failure, you use it as leverage to get a fix quick from your vendor. No, they won’t fix your database (that’s what your disaster recovery strategy is for – you do have one, right? 🙂 ), but they will move faster if theyare keeping you from doing business.

Another thing (this is probably more suited for a server discussion, but…) if there are known issues with a particular hardware configuration and application, then most likely someone else will also have runinto the problem, and therefore, may have a quick answer to your problem.

Finally, if there are huge issues with your vendor, you can take legal action against them if you’ve had extended down time and recoup some (if you play your cards right) of your lost money.

Unless you build a LOT of PCs, you won’t get that with your home-builts.

I’m sorry, but for a company that wants cost savings, it’s the way to go – I might say that if you need less than 10 PCs, then home build it. If more, let someone else do the grunt work.

yup
Rob

A Caveat….

In reply to Build your own.

As I prioritze my and my employees schedule, we don’t have time to build them all anymore. If I tooled up and got space for it and hired someone, we would take a loss. We can buy them a lot cheaper than building them. I will get inside them myself and have my employees build until they know how, but for it’s much more effecient for us to buy. Also, with Volume License Keys and SA you can up and downgrade at will and get support from MS, all at 103$ more than the cost of the Dell, which is far cheaper than how much it costs to keep them running without imaging IMO.

amen brother

In reply to A Caveat….

True – your staff have more important things to do rather than build PCs. Sure, if you have it documented, you can reduce the build time, but what if you get defunct parts? Sometimes it can take hours for the most experienced tech to track it down.

Essentially, you are not just paying for the PC and software when you go with OEM. You have to remind yourself that Quality Assurance and assembly costs are in there as well. Someone else has taken the time to test and verify the hardware before they sent it to you.

Unless you are ISO certified, no one can tell me that they will have the same results with a bulk shipment of like systems…

I dunno – just my thoughts
Rob

Id go with Dell.

In reply to Pros and Cons – Dell or Build Your Own

If you have to deploy more than 5-6 computers I would go with Dell’s.

Pros:
1. Driver support from website
2. Long parts warranty’s.
3. Uniformity across your network.
4. Time to build is on them not you
5. Cheaper than you can build especially with licenses.

Cons.

1. You might not get the hardware you want.
2. If you need a machine NOW, building is faster
3. Pay for extra programs you dont need

What driver support from Website

In reply to Id go with Dell.

I had the unfortunate experience of working with a company that had 60+ Dell’s. An administrators nightmare to say the least. They supposedly have all the drivers available for their PC’s but MOST of them have bugs that don’t get rectified until they come out with the new driver, then that one has different bugs.
I now work for a company that uses ONLY Compaq and IBM pc’s. A little more expensive to start off $1200-$1800 but that is the backbone of the company’s infrastructure, why cut costs?!
All PC’s now have 5 year IN HOUSE service coverage and the driver update are actually tested working updates.
as for DELL vs your own build, trust yourself not Dell.

Not my experience

In reply to What driver support from Website

At my last company I had about 100-150 dells. Most of them XPS Dimensions and CP series laptops. I did not run into any troubles with driver support from the website. Just enter the service tag, and select your driver.

Dell’s are not perfect.I had 5 machines that had service tags that supposedly belonged to Target Superstores and could not get a resolution to it. Oh well.

To each their own

In reply to What driver support from Website

Obviously, it comes to a matter of opinion (that was what this discussion had as a disclaimer, I think!) – if you have a bad experience with Dell, you will go with another manufacturer (or build your own). But I guess my opinion is this:

If you plan on supporting those PCs on any large scale, I would just go with the OEM route. Don’t get inundated with the details of your PCs, and don’t get blamed if something happens with those PCs.

Our business had acquired a few other companies over time, and some companies had custom-built machines. I have no idea who built them, or what parts they used, but I do know that I can’t trust them.

What I do is (within reason) trust the power user to download their own driver and do some preliminary support on their own. Heck, we have a lot of our users call Dell direct when they need hardware replaced. It saves us the hassle.

If you are building it for you or your friends/family, sure… home-built is the way to go – building it for company use and not so friendly friends, tell them to go with Dell/IBM/HP (or whatever you prefer as an OEM).

Rob

Oh absolutely.

In reply to To each their own

Yes, this is often opinion. In a corporate environment I like Dells for Desktops, Thinkpads for laptops.

At home, Im going to build my own machine, just cause its fun to do.

Ive also let power users make their own calls to Dell to get a new part, especially remote ones.

Compaq

In reply to Oh absolutely.

Ok, I know I’m drowning in a sea of “10k” people out there, but I’m really drowning with this whole Compaq thing… I trust them with laptops and servers. Their desktops since 2000 have been very reliable and easy to maintain, but prior to that had been inconsistent…

Trusting Compaq

In reply to Compaq

Just goes to show that the past experiences in the environment mold your perceptions of things.

We have a few Compaq servers here and I would say they’ve run about 50/50 here. We’ve had very little problems with our Dell servers (which run via fiber Q-Logic cards to our SAN), so any more, I trust Compaq as far as I can throw them (which isn’t far because I’m a weenie).

Anyway – I think that the purpose of the discussion was to show the pros & cons of home-built and OEM.

Maxwell, how is this for you? Getting your info? 🙂

Later,
Rob

Power Users You Can Trust????

In reply to To each their own

WOW!

You mean you have power users you can trust with their systems, Rob?

Dell for Business use

In reply to Pros and Cons – Dell or Build Your Own

Hi Maxwell,

As long as the hardware suits the users needs, I would go with Dell for business systems.

On a cost basis, you just cannot compete with their volume buying of parts.

I would avoid every other name brand that I am aware of for a variety of reasons.

1 big advantage with Dell, is that they are in the best financial condition of ALL the major PC manufactures.

As a plus for you, you get the system with the hardware setup, and the software installed.

One other option that might be worth pursuing, is an independent local PC retailer.

If you set up an annual contract with them, you can be nearly as cost effective as Dell while supporting the local economy.

Chas

Good point…

In reply to Dell for Business use

I didn’t even think of the local economy thing – that’s an excellent point.

If you do go with local, check up with other customers of theirs for references. That way you’ll know what you are getting into.

My past experience with the Mom andPop shops are that the employee turnover tends to be a little high and you don’t get the professionalism of the big boys.

“Mom & Pop” shops

In reply to Good point…

It really varies in this bracket. We have an excellent reliable very hot system builder locally that has been here through 2 decades and isn’t going away. He is able to match Staples software pricing and beat Dells specs or prices on every unit. He also VERY much knows what he is doing mixing parts and unconditionally stands behind everything he sells. I know these people are somewhat hard to find in some locals in this industry, but they do still exist. As far as turnover, well, when he dies it’s going to be a lot different, but for the forseeable couple decades it will probably remain the same.

All “Mom & Pop” shops are not anywhere near equal IMO.

local boys…

In reply to Good point…

But you do get people from your metro who you may know in various circles, and definitely speak the language. Per someone else’s comments earlier… Dell is in Texas, do you mean that there could be people working there that can’t understand you?

Local Vendor

In reply to Dell for Business use

This is deffinitely true. I’m glad you mentioned it. In one manufacturing environment, they had all white-box PCs from a few years ago, and all were the same hardware revision, except for a few PCs from the wild. When they wanted to replace the wildones, they went with a local vendor, who thankfully was at least 1/2 trustworthy and working on their rep, and ordered a dozen of the same platform, similar to the previous with newer parts. Once this was done and images were made, their environmentwas less “wild” than it was in the past.

Local Vendor

In reply to Dell for Business use

This is deffinitely true. I’m glad you mentioned it. In one manufacturing environment, they had all white-box PCs from a few years ago, and all were the same hardware revision, except for a few PCs from the wild. When they wanted to replace the wildones, they went with a local vendor, who thankfully was at least 1/2 trustworthy and working on their rep, and ordered a dozen of the same platform, similar to the previous with newer parts. Once this was done and images were made, their environmentwas less “wild” than it was in the past.

Keeps going and going and going

In reply to Dell for Business use

this thread’s like the Energizer Bunny!

Chas, I have to argue one of your points.
“As a plus for you, you get the system with the hardware setup, and the software installed.”

I know that if you but the cheap Compaq’s and HP’s from retail outlets, you get a low budget cheapo PC that is stripped clean of anything useful.
ALL Compaq’s I buy, come with EVERYTHING installed and ready to go (not to mention DECENT hardware)and come complete with a 5-year P7L IN HOUSE warranty. You simply cannot beat that, plus their support is actually quite good. When you get out of the retail PC market the suport desk can answer practically anything including registry modifications, file debugginh etc. As opposed to the inevitable, wait in queue for 20 minutes to be told to insert the restore CD.

Dell’s support on the other hand seems to have a single solution for every problem. “Just insert the restore CD and press Enter.” Not to mention the hardware is low end and often outdated.
Dell’s are great for stopping your boat hull from getting banged up against the dock.

It all comes back to price

In reply to Pros and Cons – Dell or Build Your Own

I have been a system builder for 12 years. A number of years ago I decided not to compete on price. I build quality, good cases, oversized power supplies, proven MB, name brand components from vendors that support their products. The end result was happy customers with very few hardware or compatability problems. Times have changed, now for OEMs price is the first criteria on the spec list and customers can’t get past the bottom line. If you want an SUV for less then $18,000 you better be prepared to make major compromises, you wont get an Explorer or Yukon, more like a KIA. If thats OK then buy it, but don’t bitch about failures and poor support. The market demanded cheap crap and the OEMs are striving to redefine the term, the bar gets lower by the day.

Quality System Builder is right!

In reply to It all comes back to price

The only way to go in the private market is to build custom machines that are reliable and made of quality components. If you don’t it’ll smash your entire existence. I don’t do any favors for people any more like that unless I can really make some money off of it, adn it’s all going to be good stuff, no cut corners. I’m too busy to be building cheapos for favors anyway, but it still comes down to the name… I don’t want my name smashed because someone insisted i keep a system too cheap to compete. I’d rather have them buy a solid Abit MB than have them get a $169 sound card, $180 vid card, and a gig of RAM just to put it on an epox motherboard. (-:{

Thanks for the feedback

In reply to Pros and Cons – Dell or Build Your Own

Thanks for taking the time to post all these great answers. It certainly provided some food for thought.

Upon weighing the pros and cons (as they relate to me, my company, and how we operate), I am going to continue to specify my own computers, and either have a local shop build them or build them myself.

But Dell computers will not be in our immediate future.

Thanks again.

it depends

In reply to Pros and Cons – Dell or Build Your Own

If it is for my personal use, I will built it so that I could take the hardware that I like. I am tired of integrated cards to the motherboards. I like to select a good display adapter, a sound card for gaming purposes and good motherboard like ASUS.

If it is for company or at work .. get up and log on to dell and buy thier specials to save money in lower TCO and initial cost. Don’t use the preset configurations and load only the software that you need, for in many instances those preloaded software has some effects on the other computers in the network. The notorious that is likely casualty are those DOS based programs.

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