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  • #2240374

    Recruiters are job-hording – time to take back the market!

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    by Anonymous ·

    After working with several recruiters for the past…oh…10 years or so, not only are they a frustrating industry and a complete waste of time, but now I have a new description: ROAD BLOCK!

    I’ve had this one recruiter that I’ve been in touch with now for at least 8 years. You would think she would have some form of loyalty in the least, but I recently contacted her about a couple of positions and she has completely ignored me. That really ticks me off.

    The biggest problem today, though, is that more and more real, legitimate companies are using these recruiting firms to hire people. When you go to Monster or CarreerBuilder, all you see is pages full of RobertHalf, Technisource, or whoever recruiting firms.

    And then when you apply to any of these positions, you NEVER hear anything back! Are these even real jobs? Monster even tells me I’m a great match for these positions but….nothing! I have an account at Robert Half and I’ve applied to several positions, and every single one of them have gone unanswered. There’s nothing worse than having to go to a site and entering your information into their database, the great black hole where no one ever sees it again unless it’s for marketing purposes. Yes folks, your information is being sold. BEWARE! I am beginning to think that a lot of these positions don’t even exist. But the main problem is that here are some great jobs that I can’t seem to be able to get consideration for, all because of a third party recruiting firm who is nothing more than a roadblock.

    It’s time we take back the job market and get it out of the hands of these commissioned-based recruiters who have no business (and no experience) selecting good Technical candidates. Remember, they want the highest commissions and will seek the candidate seeking the LOWEST pay! That also means they aren’t necessarily looking for the most talented; only the one’s who will generate the most $$ to them! That’s before you even get presented to the company! This is not fair to us talented IT professionals and I think it’s time to do something about it….any suggestions? :p

    Edit: Here’s a funny thread about the very subject http://seeker.dice.com/olc/thread.jspa?threadID=1501

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    • #2630956

      There is a special section of ..

      by shellbot ·

      In reply to Recruiters are job-hording – time to take back the market!

      H*ll for Recruiters.

      Its my understanding that a good portion of the positions they post are nothing mroe than CV fishing. Get in a good batch of CV’s to keep on file.

      Everytime I rang one of these idiots about a position, I was always told it “wasn’t available” anymore, however, they had a fantastic one for me that I was a “perfect match” for.

      The sad thing is, its not going to change. Most companies are happy to use Recruiters to thin out the CV’s. They don’t want to look through hundreds, so they rely on the recruiters to give them a batch of CV’s which has already been pared down to potential canidates.

      I wish it wasn’t so…
      I will be creating a website in the near future which details my hatred for them. Yes, I know its sad, but it will make me feel better…

      You may want to contribute to the site in the future?

      • #2630946

        I know what you mean….

        by Anonymous ·

        In reply to There is a special section of ..

        A long time ago, I told myself I would NEVER visit with another recruiting firm ever again. Mainly that was because I would go to their interviews and never hear from them again. I mean, c’mon, there’s NOTHING wrong with me! But when I moved to Iowa, I thought maybe it would be a little different…for some reason…so I tried one just for size: Went to an interview, talked to people who seemed to really care and who really wanted to try and get me a job. Of course, I’ve never heard from them again. I believe though one time the lady DID contact me about a help desk position. I was livid. Not even a close match to what I wanted: IT Management or Architect., and here they were contacting me about an entry-level position.

        BTW, what does CV stand for? Contact Victim? :p

        • #2630906

          Sometimes

          by w2ktechman ·

          In reply to I know what you mean….

          one needs to suck it up and take a short term position though.
          And that is what they are looking for. A few years back I got hit pretty hard, unemployed and almost broke. Fianlly one of these places called me back and asked if I was interested in a 3 day position for less than 1/2 of my salary requirements. Since I had nothing else lined up, I took it. A week later they had a 5 day with a small increase in pay. Again I took it just to be working.
          These were sh*t jobs, but I really needed employment. Next was a 2-week job, and then a 1 month job. Each were paying a little more, but none were paying enough to cover rent. Finally they found a 3-month contract which met my min. salary requirements. I took it, contract was extended, I got a raise, and finally, the place hired me and I got a bigger raise.

        • #2630904

          Absolutely

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to Sometimes

          I took some short term contracts that didn’t pay that well when I was in the search.

          It not only paid better than employment insurance, it also provided me with contacts, references, and helped shake the rust off.

          James

        • #2630329

          Not really the problem though W2K

          by shellbot ·

          In reply to Sometimes

          I’ve sucked it up and taken jobs before..thats not the problem..the problem is the agents themselves!

          My life for the past 2 months:
          -You get a phone call at 10 am, its an agent, he has the perfect job for you so you spend 20 mins on the cell with him while dodging co-workers so no one can hear you. He is going to email you a job spec in the next hour. He does, and when you indicate your definatly interested, you never hear from them again. Repeat this 3-5 times daily.
          – You get a call at 4 pm from an agent you spoke to at 10 am, he hasn’t made a note that he spoke to you already and you have to point it out to him. Sometimes it fun to play along, and then about 15 mins into the call he says “did i speak with you this week already?”
          -You get calls about awesome jobs that are a perfect match..and then you have to break thier bubble by explaining to them that “no a bit of experience in Javascript does not mean i am perfect for the Java Developer job that requires 4 years servlets experience. Repeat this 2-4 times a day

          I could go on..but even just thiking about this drives up my blood pressure..
          I know they are not working for me..but they need to treat people with a bit of respect..
          They outright lie and withhold information about jobs they are selling you.

          I’ve only dealt with 1 agent in 5 years that I had any amount of respect for…
          One day they shall get whats coming to them.

          ]:)

        • #2482311

          I understand that too.

          by w2ktechman ·

          In reply to Not really the problem though W2K

          last year, I was offered to be submitted for a position that I was certainly not qualified for.
          Nowhere on my resume does it list development, programming, etc. But since I was a manager, they wanted to submit me for managing 8 programmers using several different languages. The funniest part was I was told that I did not need to know programming at all, just management.
          I had to tell him that I believed that a manager should know the job(s) of their employees in a ‘been there, done that’ sort of way….

        • #2630504

          I lucked out…

          by locrian_lyric ·

          In reply to I know what you mean….

          I had a damn good recruiter who thought it her mission to place people, not just fill holes.

        • #2623535

          CV=

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to I know what you mean….

          Curriculum Vitae. Fancy words meaning “resum?.” Commonly used in Europe (where Shellbot is) and by Americans who wish to feel better about themselves. 😀

    • #2630940

      Recruiters work for employers not for you

      by jamesrl ·

      In reply to Recruiters are job-hording – time to take back the market!

      As for the comment about the lowest pay, thats wrong actually. When we use an agency, and we have used many different ones, they get paid a percentage of the employees wages as their fee, so it is in their best interest to get a good wage (if they are at all competent).

      I’ve had some good and some bad experience with recruiters. I had a meeting with Robert Half that included one of their biggest customers in the city, who happened to be a former boss of mine who offered to help. Nothing came of it, despite lots of followup on my part.

      On the other hand I’ve had recruiters who have worked well with me. You can bet I use these people now when I am hiring.

      James

      • #2630933

        That does seem to be the trend nowadays…

        by Anonymous ·

        In reply to Recruiters work for employers not for you

        Getting a percentage of pay does seem to be the latest trend.

        I think also that the lower they offer you, the more chance you have at being hired, so there is also at interest getting you hired versus getting more commission. The “bottom-line” may dictate that the more candidates they place, the better, rather than the fewer-but-higher commissions….??

        • #2630917

          Not a trend

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to That does seem to be the trend nowadays…

          I was recruited to become a recruiter in the late 80s(I never took the job) and that was the rule then. The other type of recruitment is retainer – where the HR department more or less outsources the whole task to a third party – in those cases they might have a salary restriction, but thats usually a much smaller part of the market.

          James

      • #2630892

        As long as you understand that you’re OK

        by dr dij ·

        In reply to Recruiters work for employers not for you

        and you DON’T use one exclusively, that way you don’t get ticked off if no leads. Just find the ones that do find leads for you.

        They are there to find a person to fill a job for the employer, not to find a job for YOU.

        IF you are a match then they may recommend you for the job and setup an interview.

        Don’t pay them, don’t sign anything saying they are only one looking for you, etc.

        And remember, alot of job postings are bogus: CV fishing, companies looking to figure out if they can pay current staff less, companies posting jobs so they can then hire H1-B people for less, etc.

        On the other hand, only a small percent of jobs are listed in papers or directly for company, huge percent goes thru recruiters, so you are shut out of those jobs if you don’t talk to recruiters.

        • #2630885

          Well…

          by Anonymous ·

          In reply to As long as you understand that you’re OK

          I don’t think anyone here reading this has any other notion as to who the recruiters work for. I think the big “it’s free” idea had pretty much solidified that notion! :p

          But the big problem here is that not many of us truly work with just one recruiter. They’re ALL like this! If you work with 5 recruiters, the problems are merely multiplied x5. For starters; waste time x 5! LOL!

          Edit: But some folks DO pay for some executive recruiters, and they can cost quite a bit, but guarantee finding you a job. THis is a totally different breed of recruiters, who actually work for you because the $$ is generated from you when they find you that job. Some recruiters that work for the companies seem to have the mentality that you should be obliging to them…

        • #2630532

          Paying a recruiter

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to Well…

          Be very very wary of recruiters who charge you and not the employer.

          http://www.discovervancouver.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12093&whichpage=2

          http://www.consumeraffairs.com/employment/haldane.html
          http://ripoffreport.com/reports/0/012/ripoff0012122.htm

          Haldane by the way keeps changing names and ripping people off.

          Once you pay them the money, what is their motivation to get you a job?

          James

        • #2630524

          I wouldn’t pay them anything!

          by Anonymous ·

          In reply to Paying a recruiter

          I actually did go thru an interview with one of these groups. They guaranteed a job and in return would garnish a portion of your wages. I can’t remember the specific details, but I do remember the plush offices they had, they were very impressive. These people definitely had incentive to find me work, but I wasn’t falling for any of it. They wanted way too much, in the thousands and I wasn’t even considering it once they mentioned price. I was turned off immediately. But I figured I’d check them out regardless and it was a good experience.

        • #2630518

          Haldane

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to I wouldn’t pay them anything!

          Asks for money up front.

          And I did get a call from them, but I did a little resource and said no thanks.

          Dodged a bullet there for sure.

          James

    • #2630424

      If you have a cv/resume with them

      by tony hopkinson ·

      In reply to Recruiters are job-hording – time to take back the market!

      change it.

      Just move some words about.

      old cv = no longer looking.

      Except for those really crap and unsuitable opportunities you get two years after you stopped looking.

      • #2474799

        I just changed my cv/resume recently

        by Anonymous ·

        In reply to If you have a cv/resume with them

        Still no help. Robert Half is probably the WORSE offender. 98% of the jobs now listed on Monster in my area are listed by Robert Half. I have applied to some of those jobs and was well qualified for all of them. Never heard a thing. BUT, I contacted an old recruiter collegue of mine who works at RHT and she was actually listed as a contact on one of these positions. She ignored my first email, so I sent her a scathing note about ignoring others who have helped you in the past. She writes an apologetic note and says about the position:

        “the situation on this position is that this is a brand new position in a brand new area of this company. They were going to hire for it, and now I think it’s going to be put on hold so that they can hire a director of the team first. The problem is that they haven’t made up their minds, and my client is traveling internationally and I haven’t been able to find anything out. I’ve been put on hold by them and so I don’t know much at the moment.”

        So how much BS is this? The way I translate this is: This job never existed, we just wanted your personal information and to increase our stats.

        This is BS folks. Monster/dice/careerbuilder, they all need to start certifying that jobs really exist. In this day and age of legislation and data theft protections, we need to be sure our personal information is used solely for the purpose we give it to them. And those job websites need to be more legit and actually accomplish something, like getting people jobs and not headaches.

        • #2482204

          CVcollectors are regular over here as well

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to I just changed my cv/resume recently

          I know jobserve don’t check.
          One mob were actually a gadget selling outfit, they register4ed with jobserve farmed teh contact details and spammed the f**k out of everybody. They had buy this basket that and one fake job.

          The person on the phone I threatened with extreme mayhem if they ever sent me another email seemed to think I was ungrateful.

    • #2480922

      I have had some luck…

      by $dunk$ ·

      In reply to Recruiters are job-hording – time to take back the market!

      I have had luck in the past by taking the recruiter’s job description and figuring out which company is really doing the hiring (it is usually not hard). I then bypass the recruiter and go straight to the company. I’ll usually try to find somebody that works at the company rather than just applying directly to the company. The benefit of this is not only does your resume get into an actual employee but it gives the hiring company more room to give a higher salary and/or signing bonus because they don’t have the high cost of the recruiter.

      With that said, if you are lucky enough to find a GOOD recruiter then they may actually have some inside contacts that can expedite your application better than the approach I described. Thus, a question that you may want to ask the recruiter prior to letting them submit your resume is how many people has he/she placed at that particular company? If the answer is one or two, then I might pass, but if they say 10 or 20 then you know they have some inside contacts that have a bit more pull than you are likely to find on your own.

      • #2482314

        Many companies do not do this

        by w2ktechman ·

        In reply to I have had some luck…

        Many companies, even if you know someone, will only hire through an agency — often a specific 1 or 2.

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