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rotten apples?

By Alex Gerulaitis ·
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You did say you wanted to compare comparable systems,

by Deadly Ernest In reply to Office?

and I don't know of any PC, except a server, that doesn't have an office suite of some sort on it. Since we're looking at a proprietary Apple system as against a proprietary Microsoft system, then MS Office needs to be included. If we go further and add a graphics manipulation program or the rest of the full blown software on an Apple iMac the price difference goes up higher by adding MS Outlook at A$193.00, MS Publisher for A$193.00 and MS Project for A$883.00.

Apple sells a complete package and Microsoft doesn't, so the only way to get real comparative prices is to price the same set ups. I kept it down to what you'd see as a basic system for general Office use.

I've always said the advantage in buying Apple was all the software gave you a lower total price if you wanted ALL that software. However, few do, thus for most it's not worth the cost. Want to save more, just go with unix or Linux and use Open Source software that does what you want. I expect you'll next say Open Source can't match a particular piece of special software you use that only works on Windows; well, if that's the case you're already locked-in with the Microsoft intended vendor lock-in.

BTW I do NOT own, and have never owned an Apple products at all. In fact I've only ever used a Mac on twice, both times it was another's system and they wanted me to show them how to do something on it. Which I was soon able to work out and show them.

My own system runs Zorin OS 5 Linux and I use Libre Office on a daily basis.

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Funny thing...

by Slayer_ In reply to You did say you wanted to ...

I have had my new laptop for nearly a year now, and still haven't gotten around to installing Office. The one time I needed a word processor, Wordpad worked just fine.

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I'm with Ernest

by NickNielsen In reply to Office?

How does finding holes in your arguments or pointing out the fallacy of blanket statements make us Mac fans?

The Mac comes with the software, the Dell and HP do not. If you want 'equivalent' platforms, then software should be included, particularly since it's my understanding you can't get the Mac without it.

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fallacy of blanket statements

by Alex Gerulaitis In reply to I'm with Ernest

The "fallacy of blanket statements" makes it a pointless discussion. So maybe stay away from them?

This is where it began:

"Mac is considered the best Windows computer on the market when matched against spec-for-spec, feature-for-feature non-Apple computers." I didn't say that, a Mac fan did.

Care for another jab or a blanket statement?

As far as the requirements for Office: wouldn't that be a blanket statement too?

Today, a web-connected Chromebook for under $500 can do 99% of what users need. No Office needed - not for Chromebook, not for for the majority of Windows and especially Linux-based PCs. What's Apple's alternative?

For nearly any Apple product there is a significantly more powerful PC for the same price. I can prove it as I did with the Mac Pro vs. Z820 example above. That's because Apple is a premium brand. It doesn't focus purely on value or performance, it focuses on premium quality and user experience.

The fact that you guys are trying to argue with what is a broad consensus among experts and users alike, only proves one thing:

As far as this discussion is concerned, Mac fans have a tendency for blanket and thus often completely false statements, making a productive discussion pointless.

Cheers. :)

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I see you're still pushing the agenda that a

by Deadly Ernest In reply to fallacy of blanket statem ...

mandarin is exactly the same as an orange. Which is what you did in your first post where you failed to include comparable software to make both system delivered with the same capabilities.

At no point has anyone said that you can't buy the same or better computer hardware for what you buy an Apple Mac with all it's software for. All we've said is that when you bring the PC with Windows up to be the near equivalent to an Apple Mac with the appropriate proprietary software the Apple Mac has the Windows system blown away for the price. I even went on to say you could **** both away by buying the same hardware and loading up with Open Source software and save a huge fortune.

Now as to the claim about buying a Netbook type device and using web based services being the same as buying a PV - well, that's akin to saying buying a 50 foot cabin cruiser is the equal of buying and using the Queen Mary 2. They are two totally different products that serve two totally different needs; but what can expect, this is the second time you've tried to change the playing field to make your view look good. You started this with talking about full blown desktops, and I find it funny the only way you can continue to try and win your argument is to switch to comparing an Apple Mac desktop to a lightweight Netbook with only a tenth of the real capabilities of the Mac.

Now, for my main work I need a full blown office package on my system to do my work because I write books and I need to be able to use the full formatting capabilities they provide for both the word processor package and the spreadsheet package I use. I also need to be able to use them when the Internet is NOT available to me, which is often as I live in a rural area. I also require security on what I write so I can't have that being out on the Internet until I want it out there.

BTW The only person who seems to think your point of view matches a broad consensus of experts and users is yourself, most people I know in the industry say the same as I do, and most of us have absolutely nothing to do with Macs at all. Like any REAL expert we look at and recommend a client gets whatever system will meet their REAL needs, not just what we prefer.

I've exchanged words with Mac fans in the past, and done the same with Linux and Microsoft fans too, but none of the them hold a candle to the weird behaviours of the Mac haters who thinks anyone who doesn't hate Macs is a Mac fanboy.

The only truthful statement you've made is that any further discussion is pointless as each time I point out the facts that your positions and statements are wrong, you come back with an attempt to change the playing field again so you can continue to avoid comparing like with like.

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a little generalized perhaps?

by Alex Gerulaitis In reply to I see you're still pushin ...

"All we've said is that when you bring the PC with Windows up to be the near equivalent to an Apple Mac with the appropriate proprietary software the Apple Mac has the Windows system blown away for the price."

You are saying, Macs are generally cheaper than PCs with equivalent hardware? Yet once you add the software that's included with Macs, to PCs - Macs become cheaper. That sounds right?

And if we don't add that software, PCs are cheaper?

Can you find me a Mac equivalent of Lenovo W530 that sells at $1200 and up? When comparing, please include similar specs: screen size, resolution, processor series and speed, amount of memory, discrete graphics (it's OK that GeForce is much less expensive than Quadro K, I'll let it slide for this test) etc.

Please don't include expensive items or software that is not part of either system.


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Alex, if you want to layout a different set of hardware and cost

by Deadly Ernest In reply to I see you're still pushin ...

it out, go ahead. This sub thread started life with you challenging my comment that a fully loaded Mac compared to an equally fully loaded Windows system of the same hardware and software the Mac comes out cheaper. I proved that with the figures from Australian companies in the same city.

Now you want me to find you a Mac with a specific set of hardware specs that don't match any of the standard Macs, well you can do that, but it's nothing to do with what we WERE discussing - which was pricing of comparable systems.

While you want to go and look at extreme systems, please feel free to see what Microsoft software you can get to run on a top end Cray system, all those I've read about run Unix or Linux as Windows just doesn't cut it for them.

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Speaking of fallacy

by AnsuGisalas In reply to fallacy of blanket statem ...

Alex is full of it :^0

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Speaking of fallacy

by Alex Gerulaitis In reply to Speaking of fallacy

@AnsuGisalas, "Speaking of fallacy Alex is full of it"

Which part, exactly?

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Happy to oblige

by AnsuGisalas In reply to Speaking of fallacy

Start with the point where you made a reference to "consensus".
Just because "everybody (that I have happened to talk to about this) agrees" doesn't make it truth.

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